Turning blanks "sanded-smooth" with only a skew?

[jrista]

In recent threads, I've heard a couple of people saying that you can turn a pen sanded-smooth, without actually sanding, with the RIGHT skew technique. I know John (@jttheclockman) shared some photos of his work demonstrating how good this can be.

The one tool, I am not good with, is the skew. I've tried a few times. I have two...a Carter and Sons skew with a radius, which I've had an easier time with, and a skew with a strait edge at...well, not sure exactly the angle, 30 degrees? I read one post recently that mentioned how you grind the skew matters a lot in terms of its grabbiness. My radiused, I've not used a ton, and haven't sharpened it yet, so its still basically got that flatish surface on each side. The other skew, I have sharpened a couple times, and it now has a curvature. Its definitely grabby!

I'm curious about a couple of things:

1. How do you sharpen your skews effectively, to keep the flat edge, but still get them extremely sharp? (I don't have the sorby sharpening system, and ATM can't afford it...I do have two CBN wheels, with...hmm, maybe a quarter inch thick flat edge... I've been thinking about getting a higher grit CBN wheel, though, with a much larger flat surface on its sides, that might do the trick?)
2. What is your technique for actually using a skew, to turn a blank, without the need to sand it?

I am mostly asking, because I'm getting into segmented blanks again. I was actually starting to do this early last year, before...well, a whole series of life events pretty much shut my turning down last year. I've been making blanks with multiple types of wood, sometimes colored (i.e. bloodwood, paduke, purpleheart, and others) combined with both dark and lighter woods. Turning these, then sanding/finishing, always leaves a color cast to the lighter woods, and sometimes in the grains of other woods. I'm quite good at sanding, but, I don't know that there is any real effective way to avoid the problem with find colored wood dust ending up tainting the others. I am also combining with resins and metals some of the time, and will eventually be trying my hand at embedding segments of trustone or other similar "stone" type materials down the road a bit. I'm curious if a skew, could handle the resins, stones, and metals? Is a skew also capable of dealing with that issue that sometimes occurs, where as you turn or sand materials of different hardness/density you sometimes get ridges or depressions?

Thanks!!

 

[KenB259]

Sidestepping, without answering your questions, you can achieve the smoothness you are seeking with pretty much any appropriate lathe tool. I use a 2 inch radius carbide all the time with no sanding needed, you just have to shear cut, same as riding the bevel with HSS lathe tools.

 

[RobS]

I actually bought Alan Lacer's skew dvd, but here is a free video. Watching his DVD, I sharpened my skew and turned these without sandpaper.
But I did watch the video 5 times.

I use the CBN setup from woodturners wonders.

 

[leehljp]

I use a scraper, which is en effect the same as a carbide insert with the shaft resting on the tool rest. My HSS scraper is shaped on the end like a radiused curve of an insert.

Here is what long departed Russ Fairfield had to say about the wood differences in different tools several years ago:

Which requires the least sanding?

On a spindle type turning such as a pen blank, which would leave the blank the smoothest thus allowing the pre-finish sanding to start at a higher grit, a shear scraper or skew chisel? I read an article on the internet recently about shear scraping which indicated that a shear scraper left...

www.penturners.org

"What is always left out of any comparison of tool finishes is the wood. All things being equal, shear scraping can leave a better surface finish than a skew chisel on the very hard dense and close grained species, but it can't come anywhere close on everything else.

If you really want to see the extreme differences, try using a both scraper and skew on Cocobolo, Blackwood, or Desert Ironwood. You will find that the scraper might be the better tool for these very hard species. At the opposite extreme, the scraper will be a disaster on a soft wood like Douglas Fir or Pine, while a sharp skew can leave a smooth clean cut and polished surface that doesn't need sanding."

BTW, Don't feel bad about the skew. I have purchased two different DVDs (one being Alan Lacers) and have watched a dozen YouTubes on the skew but still get catches. I spent a month once when I lived overseas in which I only used a skew and tore up or ripped a lot of wood. Still didn't graduate to even a simi-skilled level. But that doesn't bother me one bit. With my customized HSS scraper, I can accomplish no-sanding smooth on hardwoods - and softwoods if stabilized properly.

Scraping with a sharp edge and light touch will scrap off any residual, as effective (IMO) as a skew is in cutting/slicing micro-thin layers. However, a scraper will be as effective with brass and aluminum rings between segments, as long as one uses light touches until one get a feel for it. I keep a glass plate with different grades of micro sandpaper to swipe my scraper a couple of times every minute or so to keep it pristine sharp. That is not necessary with a high grade carbide insert. One More Thing: if using a carbide insert, use a radiused square, not a "square" insert.

ADDING IN: At the time I started using the scraper and before I learned of the words of Russ Fairfield, I mentioned the thought of not using sandpaper to get a smooth finish (Because I had learned from my own trial and error) and the first reactions were negative. Then a couple of guys who had been bowl turners made mention that many bowl turners knew and used this trick to smooth certain woods and segments without sanding.

 

[Alan Morrison]

Jon, I use a radiused square carbide tool and finish with a shear cut, holding the tool at 45 degrees making sure that it is sharp and I take very light cuts.
I still find that some sanding is required ( I am only talking about timber here )
To lessen colour bleed I would apply a couple of coats of sanding sealer or CA first and then sand. Normally I only need to sand once using 600 grit Abranet.
Other more experienced turners here will not need to sand at all.

 

[Hartwell85]

Another very good video on understanding the skew is from Matt Monaco. He did an informative presentation at Central Ohio Woodturner's meeting a few years ago. I walked away with less fear of the skew.

The easiest and safe way to practice with the skew is using the Oneway Ring/Safety Drive available from Alan's store. https://stores.alanswoodturningstore.com/oneway-ring-safety-drive-2-morse-taper/

 

[jrista]

Another very good video on understanding the skew is from Matt Monaco. He did an informative presentation at Central Ohio Woodturner's meeting a few years ago. I walked away with less fear of the skew.

The easiest and safe way to practice with the skew is using the Oneway Ring/Safety Drive available from Alan's store. https://stores.alanswoodturningstore.com/oneway-ring-safety-drive-2-morse-taper/

Thank you! This is veyr helpful. I'm about 15 minutes in, and the grinding and sharpening info is excellent. It is really amazing, how much deep skill is required for woodworking. Anyone who calls this kind of thing unskilled labor, is truly naive! The nuances about angle, curve, burr, side of the edge on which the burr is, how you angle to tool to the wood, etc. etc. So much nuance.