'Penturning Guild' FTL….

[Skye]

FTL: Webspeak, For The Lose.

I’m looking around the web for more articles on pen turning, trying to get a nice tomb printed out to leaf through when I see the link for the ‘Penturning Guild’. So, I sign up. Rejected, already used Yahoo password. Ok, I’ll make another… rejected, also used. Ok, how about “Yahoosuxorzâ€, nope used. “Ihateyahoo†“dieyahoodie†“deathtoyahoo†“nonamesleft†“M0n5t3r†nope, all used. Sonofa….. ok, just jarble random letters together till something is accepted. Done. FINALLY!

Next page deeper into the guild, oh, I see, I have to list a reason I want to join the guild. You know, incase they think I’m going there because I like to make homemade icecream not realizing it’s a penturning guild. Maybe there’s a lot of confusion and this is a way to cut down on it. Ooooook. Done, send.

Another email. Seems I’m still not in, I have to have my application reviewed. Wow, I had no idea it was an application. Are they going to check my credit score next? Maybe mail me an at home urine test.

Oh, while I was reading in dismay, another email comes through, they’re no longer using the standard Yahoo signup button, I have to email them directly along with a pic of a pen in order to see if my work is good enough to qualify to join this group. Luckily they add a little note that if I think my work is not good enough I can join the toddlers in the general Yahoo group. So, I have to qualify to join a yahoo group?!

Seriously folks, what in the h-e-doublehockeysticks is up with that? It’s freakin penturning. It’s not rocket science, it’s not the Masons, I’m not trying to adopt a third world child. I’m trying to join a freak penmaking ‘guild’. I realize that they may want to retain some sort of standards but to not allow someone by the quality of their work is a joke. Maybe it’s just me…… even if it’s me, it’s still a steaming pile of burl inducer.

 

[Mikey]

LMAO!!!![][][][][]

 

[pete00]

a riot [][][][][]
next time i need to swear at someone its gonna be

YOU NO GOOD steaming pile of burl inducer you.....
pete

 

[Skye]

Heh, can you tell what I've been reading about recently? []

 

[its_virgil]

Skye,
Actually I think you are all confused. Membership into the Y! PenMaker's Guild is not automatic. Anyone can be a member of the Yahoo Penturner's group by just joining...just like being a member of this site, the IAP. The Penmaker's guild is a group that being accepted into requires sending a pen to be examined by a group of 'elders'. Some think the PMG is a good thing and others think it isn't. In the middle of the guild's homepage in green print is a notice that the guild does not use the normal joining procedure of yahoo groups, but joining is by application. The joining rules are plainly spelled out, requirements are listed, and being a member is not automatic. Had you read the info on the PMG home page, or the info that you had links to, you would have read all the rules of membership into the PMG. I think you need to pull back on your reins, chill a little, and turn a few pens. But, don't loose your enthusiam! ;-) Want some of the best penturning information available? Look in the archives and the photo albums of both this site and the Yahoo penturner's group. You will find years of archived penturning information.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[JimGo]

I agree with Don. Also, check out the PMG's albums for some incredible and inspirational pens. While you're at it, pay attention to the PMG's membership list. After you've been here for a while, you'll see that many of our regular contributors are also PMG members. Several other PMG members, including one of the founding "elders", also pop in from time to time to help us out when we have a particularly vexing issue.

Personally, membership in the PMG is something to which I aspire. I still have a long way to go before I think I'll even be ready to submit a pen, but the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter. By the same token, I can understand that someone would not need/want to try to join the PMG.

 

[Skye]

Membership into the Y! PenMaker's Guild is not automatic. Anyone can be a member of the Yahoo Penturner's group by just joining...just like being a member of this site, the IAP. The Penmaker's guild is a group that being accepted into requires sending a pen to be examined by a group of 'elders'.

That's exactly what I said.

The link I had was the one on this site, which I dont think mentiones anything about having to be accepted. Reading all the text on a join page, I'm one of the 99% who dosent.

Pulling back the reins isnt my strong suit. Chilling, also something I lack. As you said, some think it's a good thing, some think it isnt. Put me down for the 'isnt'. No big deal.

 

[its_virgil]

So Noted.
To each his own.
Whatever will be will be.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by Skye
<br />

Membership into the Y! PenMaker's Guild is not automatic. Anyone can be a member of the Yahoo Penturner's group by just joining...just like being a member of this site, the IAP. The Penmaker's guild is a group that being accepted into requires sending a pen to be examined by a group of 'elders'.

That's exactly what I said.

The link I had was the one on this site, which I dont think mentiones anything about having to be accepted. Reading all the text on a join page, I'm one of the 99% who dosent.

Pulling back the reins isnt my strong suit. Chilling, also something I lack. As you said, some think it's a good thing, some think it isnt. Put me down for the 'isnt'. No big deal.

 

[PenWorks]

Can't find the icon "biting my tongue" []

 

[JHFerrell]

another great source of information can be found at
www.thepenshop.net

 

[wdcav1952]

Skye,

I am not a member of the PMG, and probably never will be as innovation is not my strong suit. Therefore, I have no personal axe to grind.

I do read well enough to comprehend that there are many Yahoo groups that are private, or require moderator approval to join. Just because something is on the Internet does not mean that everyone in the world has the right to view and/or become a member of everything to which they see the title. Private organizations are not against the rules of the world. Just because a high school student wants to join the National Honor Society, acceptance is not a given for a "C" student. Is this right or wrong? Doesn't matter, it is simply the way it is.

As pointed out, many of the members here are PMG members. Most do not mention it; they simply share their expertise with those who request help. I have been on the receiving end of help from several Guild members, and their assistance has increased my knowledge. I would like to suggest that you tether your high horse and take the time to return to the PMG home page. Find the link to the off-site albums and take a few minutes to look at the work of some of the members. Then, ask yourself "Do I really think I am in the class of some of these penturners?" If you are honest with yourself, I think you will be a bit humbled.

If I offended you, I regret it. If you are offended, please take a moment and consider the way your post could have been taken by members of the PMG.

My thoughts, and mine alone.

 

[dubdrvrkev]

I am just a guy who turns an occasional pen, so I'm not and won't be a PMG member, but I have no ambition to be either.
One thing I understand is that after little league the whole team doesn't always get to play. This angers some folks and others just work a bit harder if they want to be seen on the field. Then there is guys like me who don't care and just have fun with what we are doing.

 

[Gary Max]

The real neat part----they all end up here at IAP

 

[penhead]

Originally posted by Gary Max
<br />The real neat part----they all end up here at IAP

 

[dpstudios]

Skye,
I don't get it. You try to get into a guild w/out reading all the info about said guild. Get denied entry & then go on a rant about it. The definition of a guild as I understand it is that it is a group of like minded people that are the best at what they do who get together to promote thier art. Also to teach & help other like minded people. To become a member of a guild you have to show that you have mastered your art & have something new & innovative to show & teach others.
That said, I have not reached the level of pen turning that some in the gallery at PMG have shown...YET! I will be a member someday. By limiting the membership to only those that have achieved a certain level of artistry just makes me strive to reach that level. To tell me that something cannot be turned just makes want to try it & make it work. In other words I just want to go.. Nyah Nyah
Keep spinning wood, plastic or whatever & the more you do..the better ya get.
Off my high horse now.

 

[Skye]

If I offended you, I regret it. If you are offended, please take a moment and consider the way your post could have been taken by members of the PMG.

Not at all man, dont worry about that.

I knew that more than likely someone from the PMG would probably read it because it's only logical that they would also belong to this non-guild group.

By limiting the membership to only those that have achieved a certain level of artistry just makes me strive to reach that level.

Well, there's two kinds of people in the world, me and yourself. I understand your mind frame, but I don't follow it myself. The idea of not alowing someone to view the holy pages of a penturning guild if they don't meet some standard of artistry is lame to me. It's not only a matter of turning something that cannot be turned, it's if your work is up to their level of worthiness. The idea of being an eliete craftsman that is able to hide himself from lower turners may float some people's boat, but not mine. I've belonged to many groups that are internet based. I've never had to prove myself to anyone. Just because it's understandable to someone doesn't mean I have to get all bubbly over it. Just as they have the right to judge someone's skills, I have the right to think the idea is a joke.

I guess it boils down to I have enough people judging me on a daily basis. The last thing I need is some guy off the internet judging my worth by something I make out of a chunk of wood.

 

[btboone]

&gt;The idea of not alowing someone to view the holy pages of a penturning guild if they don't meet some standard of artistry is lame to me.

If you look, you'll see that you are free to read the posts at the Guild even if you are not a member. The whole idea of the guild is having a place to discuss aspects of pen crafting that is different than the usual stuff that newcomers discuss. These are people that want to find out about casting their own clips in silver, buying lots of solid gold nibs, machining their own triple lead threads, and other stuff unrelated to kits. By selecting who's able to get in, they are able to keep the topics skewed in that direction.

 

[woodwish]

I'm glad that there are groups like the PMG, and other exclusive groups. It's not in my personality to join any of them. Why would I want to join an exclusive group that lets people like me in it? [] I haven't even ever looked at the PMG group web site, I see more pens on here than I ever intend to try to turn. I turn a lot of stuff and every piece is better than the last piece I hope, and my pens fall into that same category. I just don't intend to have someone judge my work to see if it is good enough to belong to their group, but I do understand why others do. Each to their own! [8D]

 

[RussFairfield]

Like several others who have responded to your comments, I am a member of the Pen Makers Guild (PMG), and have been since shortly after it was founded almost 3 years ago.

Since you find the PMG and its members to be so offensive, you have no obligation to read any of my messages, just as I have no obligation to answer any of your questions.

 

[airrat]

I say lock this thread. we dont need another battle against PMG like the ones before. This is like a bad flash back.

 

[ldimick]

Tom,

I don't think this thread is in danger of turning into a wildfire. Skye expressed some frustration, a few replied, and no harm has been done.

One of the great things about IAP is that we do have a lot of new members and as part of that growth we go through cycles of educating new memebrs. It's up to the veterans to understand this and keep things civil.

 

[Darley]

Originally posted by Skye
<br />

If I offended you, I regret it. If you are offended, please take a moment and consider the way your post could have been taken by members of the PMG.

Not at all man, dont worry about that.

I knew that more than likely someone from the PMG would probably read it because it's only logical that they would also belong to this non-guild group.

By limiting the membership to only those that have achieved a certain level of artistry just makes me strive to reach that level.

Well, there's two kinds of people in the world, me and yourself. I understand your mind frame, but I don't follow it myself. The idea of not alowing someone to view the holy pages of a penturning guild if they don't meet some standard of artistry is lame to me. It's not only a matter of turning something that cannot be turned, it's if your work is up to their level of worthiness. The idea of being an eliete craftsman that is able to hide himself from lower turners may float some people's boat, but not mine. I've belonged to many groups that are internet based. I've never had to prove myself to anyone. Just because it's understandable to someone doesn't mean I have to get all bubbly over it. Just as they have the right to judge someone's skills, I have the right to think the idea is a joke.

I guess it boils down to I have enough people judging me on a daily basis. The last thing I need is some guy off the internet judging my worth by something I make out of a chunk of wood.

OK Skye, let me tell you something and probably you will ignored, first if you don't like the way of a net site just don't go back again to it, second lots of PGM Members are on this site and can give you very good advice how to make a pens, can you make a pen ?? if yes can you show us some? like that we can make comments on them and to make you improve your skills, then when you fell confident with yourself just send 1 pen to the guild you may be accepted, in the mean time I would sudgest that you come down a bit of your frustation, we are here on IAP to learn and perfect ourself on our Hobby, bussiness or what ever you want call, you have good resource of info and good people who can help you any time you want, please keep your frustation for yourself we are not here to hear that we got our own frustation and we don't bring it to this forum

Thanks mate

 

[airrat]

Lynn it can evolve into a wildfire very quickly. Russ has already posted and I am sure alot of others are saying to themselves GAWD not another PMG bashing.

Skye sorry you dont approve of their requirements. However it is their ball and court. Therefore, their rules. If you don't like them just don't visit their site again. I have sites/forums I refuse to go to due to certain reasons.

 

[Doghouse]

I think this topic has been covered enough. If you want to read more about it, use search as there are plenty of threads.

 

[Skye]

It's stange all the replies that mention that they assume I wont read their post. What makes you think that I wouldent read your reply? The fact that I dont agree with a qualification test, that I prefer people inclusive over exclusive, should lend to the thought that I'm going to read what's posted.

What it boils down to is this. People can say that it's a great idea being among those others who are skilled enough to be deemed members, that's their right, but it makes me wonder this: If you hang out there because they are the best, what are the people here? I just dont see the joy in being a member of a club who turns away someone deemed less skilled. That's the bottom line.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Skye, it's kind of like Duke basketball. They have something like 18 players on the team. The school won't allow anyone with an SAT below 1300 to get into the school and that includes the athletes. Of the 18 players on the team about 8 of them actually played basketball last night. They stomped Maryland's behind into a mud hole and then stomped the mud hole dry. There are hundreds of thousands, I dare say multi-millions of basketball players in the US and world. Only 8 are playing on the best college basketball team in the world right now. The rest play basketball, can look at Duke play anytime they want, but they just can't be on the floor with them. You can learn a lot looking at the best.

 

[Ron Mc]

We are among "those others who are skilled enough to be members" everyday. All of us learn from them and they learn from us on a daily basis. I personally am not a member but really don't have a problem with their process at all. Maybe someday I will be a member.[]
"If you hang out there because they are the best, what are the people here?" In my opinion some of the people that post here are the best at particular aspects of pen turning. We all have our strong suites in our particular fields. Some of the members of the guild or this group may better at a particular style or design of a pen but then I may be better at another style or design. Yet I am not a member. We all learn from each other which allows us each to benefit from every ones area of expertise.
I guess what I am trying to say is, One does not need to be a member of the Guild to be the best. Nor does being a member of the Guild make you the best.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Skye

I'm a member of PMG, and as many on this list know, I took allot of heat because of this. So If I am a little touchy please accept my appolgies in advance.

1) What is your real name?

2) If you REALLY want to get in to PMG. Submit a pen to them. If you don't get accepted, learn how to make a better pen and try again.

3) If you don't want to get in PMG - quit your whinning and go back to the lathe and turn a pen.

 

[Skye]

Mac, I get your analogy and it make total sense, but there’s one snag in my mind. Basketball is a game, a competition, something where someone doesn’t just strive to be the best, but to beat others to become that. I don’t put pen turning in that light. I think that a craft, an artform should be something that you do along with someone else. If you want to be the best, you take others with you, you don’t separate yourself from them when you’ve surpassed them. To me, no matter how good I will become, it’ll never be a competition, never be something that I judge another person over. That degrades what the craft is for me.

Ron, that’s what I like about this place. It’s obvious by looking at the gallery that the people here are good enough by far and they’re willing to hang out here with the rest of us.

 

[Skye]

Ron #2:

1.) My real name is……… Skye. What’s your real name? Certainly not “Ron.â€

2.) The only reason I wanted to be ‘in’ the PMG was just to gather info. Submit a pen, shiz no. I don’t do anything for the approval of another person other than employer and spouse and I’m not starting now. Unless you want to start cooking my dinners, then I may reconsider.

3.) Whining? You may consider it whining, however if someone wants no part of something, I don’t see why they would whine. I think cancer is terrible too, I’ll complain about it as well, you think I’m whining about it?

Kissing someone before you punch them doesn’t lessen the blow. If you want to get touchy, get touchy, but don’t apologize for it. We’ve all got on our big boy pants here.

 

[penhead]

OK, I am thinkin' I must take my shoes off to continue to count how many times this topic has been thrashed.

How about everyone agrees to disagree, everyone has there own opinion, and lets move on.

 

[Skye]

No, much too easy, makes too much sense. There must be a catch. You're a tricky one you!

 

[its_virgil]

All of the PMG messages are available for anyuone to read. The photo albums are in a gallery off Yahoo and a link is provided on the home page. Anyone can see the member's photos, unkike the
Y! Penturner's group's photo albums.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by Skye
<br />
2.) The only reason I wanted to be ‘in’ the PMG was just to gather info.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Skye, allot of people here know my real name is Ron Sardo.

You just remind me of another person who use to be on this list who would never give his reeal full name.

 

[Gary Max]

And then there was those really good Dill pickles that granny made.

 

[penhead]

My favorite was the salt brine pickles my granddaddy use to make...wish I had still had the recipe [:0]

 

[Ron Mc]

Nothing like a fried pickle~[]

 

[gerryr]

How about a dill pickle malt?

 

[JimGo]

Dang it! Why'd you have to bring up the pickles again???? Since we had the baby two weeks ago, we haven't been able to go out to dinner (doc's say wait at least 2 weeks), and that's the only way I can get out to get the fried pickles!!!! Gary, John, and Ron, I won't forgive you for this! []

 

[penhead]

Every once in a while the local grocery store has dill pickle potato chips...mmmmm. []