Would you want a forum for critiquing pens?

[Lucky2]

I agree with Andrew, I have been giving my honest opinions on the SOYP and think that everyone should be doing that also. Why is a second place needed to get an opinion on the same pen, SOYP is set up for that, that's part of the reason for it's existance. I feel that if a special place to critique pens is made, just so that a person can be honest or meaner saying something about a pen is a pure waste of time. Just be completely honest when you post in SOYP.

 

[76winger]

Well, all of the many and varied opinions given so far not-with-standing (I only read those on the frist 5 pages) I believe a critique forum would be about as useful as nipples on a boar hog.

If you want an honest critique of a pen, send the pictures to a couple of people who will give you an honest evaluation. If you want their opinion of the blank, ask for it. If you want their opinion on a design, ask for it.

If you want the workmanship looked at, tell them. Understand that when you ask an opinion on workmanship, you are really just looking for verification of your own opinion. You know when the workmanship on a pen you make is excellent and when it isn't.

Frankly, if you want an evaluation of something you've created, 12000 or so members don't really need to know my opinion of your workmanship. Only you need to know what I think and you can learn that privately.

Smitty,

I don't see a way in FR to highlight, but I see "opinion" used 5 times above, I believe the purpose of the new forum would be to garner critiques, not opinions. They're two different things.

And posting in a critiques forum, you ARE asking. Just a lot more than one or two people. And the purpose would be so more than just the poster benefits from the entire dialog of the thread. It should be made clear to the poster that it will be viewable by everyone and to expect responses they may or may not like. Set this expectation at the outset, and if a person doesn't like the thought of receiving critical reviews, then they shouldn't be posting there. Use another forum or PM.

By the way my dad used to use the boar hog phrase a lot, God rest his sole. You brought back fond memories.

Well it's 1am and I have to be back up at 6. Have a good night all!

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

 

[Lucky2]

I would also like to say that if a special place is set up for brutal honesty about pens, there will be lots of hurt feelings. And with hurt feelings the one that got hurt can always be looking for revenge, which will make for many little mini wars amongst the members. IMHO, leave it as it is, then there will be no hard feelings amongst the members. And let anyone who wants a brutal critiquing done of their pen, just ask for it.
Len

 

[Texatdurango]

I guess I just don't get it! Can one person give me one example showing where posting a pen in a new critique forum would result in anything different than posting the same pen in the SOYP and asking for critiques?

Anyone care to give it a shot without watering down a response with 5 paragraphs of buzz words and catchy phrases? One difference is all I'm looking for, because I can't think of anything.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Just a thought ... if I were working on a pen that I truly wanted design feedback on my instinct would be to post it in 'Penturning' and not 'SOYP' and I'd make my intentions clear. IE "I'm trying a few new things and want your opinions on my pen".

The biggest issue I see with any sort of 'critique' type forum is it is all based on the users pictures. I've seen many pictures from great pen makers that there is something that looks off but it is due to reflections or the angle of the picture.

 

[bitshird]

I thought that's what SOYP forum was for?? Sure why not keep changing and adding JUNK threads to the point that logging on would be a complete waste of time.

 

[Smitty37]

Well, all of the many and varied opinions given so far not-with-standing (I only read those on the frist 5 pages) I believe a critique forum would be about as useful as nipples on a boar hog.

If you want an honest critique of a pen, send the pictures to a couple of people who will give you an honest evaluation. If you want their opinion of the blank, ask for it. If you want their opinion on a design, ask for it.

If you want the workmanship looked at, tell them. Understand that when you ask an opinion on workmanship, you are really just looking for verification of your own opinion. You know when the workmanship on a pen you make is excellent and when it isn't.

Frankly, if you want an evaluation of something you've created, 12000 or so members don't really need to know my opinion of your workmanship. Only you need to know what I think and you can learn that privately.

Smitty,

I don't see a way in FR to highlight, but I see "opinion" used 5 times above, I believe the purpose of the new forum would be to garner critiques, not opinions. They're two different things.

And posting in a critiques forum, you ARE asking. Just a lot more than one or two people. And the purpose would be so more than just the poster benefits from the entire dialog of the thread. It should be made clear to the poster that it will be viewable by everyone and to expect responses they may or may not like. Set this expectation at the outset, and if a person doesn't like the thought of receiving critical reviews, then they shouldn't be posting there. Use another forum or PM.

By the way my dad used to use the boar hog phrase a lot, God rest his sole. You brought back fond memories.

Well it's 1am and I have to be back up at 6. Have a good night all!

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

Technically that is true critique and opinion are not listed as synonyms....but critique and opinion in fact do share share several words that are synonyms for both. Both judgement and assessment included.

Critique is also considered to be a term which shares a definition with criticism; Both critique and opinion are a listed synonyms for criticism.

I light of the above, I will stand by my opinion that asking me to critique (criticize) your work would be asking for my assessment or judgement and hence asking for my opinion.

My dad is also where I learned the phrase you referred to, along with one or two others ...that I don't use in family forums... meaning "useless".

 

[Smitty37]

The only difference I can see between critique and criticism is where they are used, both share the same roots, critique was probably invented by an "art critic". Hence, we tend to say that we critique the work of an author or artist and criticize the work of a plumber or electrician. In both cases we are giving a judgement or evaluation of the persons work and in both cases that judgement or evaluation will be based on our opinion of the work.

 

[Smitty37]

One other thing

I should make sure that everyone understands - if such a forum existed I wouldn't submit any of my own work. Nor would I offer opinions on others work. In fact, I probably wouldn't follow the forum at all. I tell you this so you know that I don't have any personal stake in the outcome of this discussion and just rendered an honest opinion.

I seldom use SOYP for my own work except to show off a blank that invariably came from someone else and I will name the source.

I do use it to show off the pens I get for my collection - they are my pride and joy. I would be highly insulted if anyone was adversly critical of them.

 

[jd99]

After sleeping on this, I am kinda with Smitty on this I don't think I will use a forum/thread to get my pens critiquied (sp).

Everybody has a opinion and there are some that are valued and there are some that are not. Ultimately the only ones that matter are the receipient of my pens and other crafts, be it my customers, or those that I give the items to.

If I make crappy pens then I won't sell them, or anyone will want them.
Which I'm selling right now so I must be doing OK. And the fact that I am always trying to do the next one better then the last, is enough drive for me.

Now on the other hand if I'm having issues and need help a section that critique's and helps then I think (yea I know my opinion doesn't have value) there would be more value in that.

Anyhow good luck with the thread, and I know I wouldn't want to moderate it it will be a full time job.

 

[Proud2Turn]

I'm one of the newer turners here and have a lot of desire to make quality pens, so I do want and seek out constructive evaluations of my work. Steel sharpens steel. Last chapter meeting I went around to several experienced people, handed them an example of my work and asked them to please tell me the good, bad, and ugly about it. I got back some good and productive information that has helped me. But criticism is of little use without good advise, tips, and info on how to avoid, or recover from, the bad and the ugly.

I have no trouble finding people to tell me what's wrong, I'm looking for the folks that will share with me ways to make it great. Also it is very encouraging and feeds the drive when you hear good things about your work. It is good to hear what's right, along with how I can make it better.

What I've enjoyed most about the people I've meet and encountered in IAP is the willingness to help each get better at the craft, and to share the joy of it.

 

[edicehouse]

The biggest problem is a lot of the people that make the real high end do not often post theirs. Is it fear of being imitated, ect. (Not taking anything away from the ones posted), but when is the last time you posted a pen?

Whom are you asking?

I went to the SOYP yesturday before I posted and I think there were 3 pens posted by people with over 1000 posts, and 2 more with over 500. There were 9 to 10 with people with posts under 100. I really don't put too many in there anymore because most of mine are nothing that original. I mean how many cigar's, Jr Gent, and slimlines can I post? When I make one I know the mistakes ect.

I am not bad mouthing anyone in any way. The people that post pictures of their pens without many posts are seeking advice I believe.

I think I saw one of your pens up in the SOYP yesturday, and a couple of the other "Sr" members and it gives me something to shoot for. And ideas of trying new material.

I think until a larger portion of the "Sr" members start showing off their work, it is going to be hard to build the critique section, because a lot don't bother checking out, and those are the ones that could probably offer the "have you tried......" advice.

 

[IPD_Mr]

My apologies to Mike and the rest of the forum for pushing this idea. I rarely posted in the SOYP because the GJNP thing did nothing to help improve my craft. I always had asked for C&C (comments & critiques), and it didn't matter to me if you had never turned a pen. If you saw something that didn't look right I wanted to see from your eyes as well as my own. Rarely would I get a critique, it was all the GJNP BS. Over the years we have been trained that that is what the SOYP forum is for. Just think if we had a Show Off Your Car forum and everyone said what a great little car the Yugo is, the darn thing might still be around!

It is quite sad that after eight years of being on the web that IAP members seem to squabble over the saddest things. I was only asking for a section where people could be honest about what they saw and think since for the most part that seems impossible in SOYP. How many times have we seen a pen in SOYP and inside you want to ask why in the world would anyone not only post it, but admit to it? But instead we just type our four little letters of encouragement GJNP or do not comment at all. What was accomplished with that? Better yet what dis-services was done?

Well it seems this was tried back in 2005 and it failed miserably. Have we not evolved in seven years to be able to do something as kind as telling someone that a pen is way under turned or that the finish is lacking? Based on this thread it is painfully obvious that we have not. So please dis-regard this idea and again my apologies to the forum for stirring this up.

 

[Phunky_2003]

I didn't read all these posts here.

Just gonna offer my opinion on what I did/do when I want an honest opinion of something I am working on.

1. Take to local chapter meeting, you can get better more descriptive comments about whatever your working on if someone can actually see and feel the item.

2. Contact someone thru PM or email. Explain to them you want an honest opinion. Most here would help if asked. Quite a few would be thrilled to be asked. I asked several when learning who've become good friends.

 

[Phunky_2003]

My apologies to Mike and the rest of the forum for pushing this idea. I rarely posted in the SOYP because the GJNP thing did nothing to help improve my craft. I always had asked for C&C (comments & critiques), and it didn't matter to me if you had never turned a pen. If you saw something that didn't look right I wanted to see from your eyes as well as my own. Rarely would I get a critique, it was all the GJNP BS. Over the years we have been trained that that is what the SOYP forum is for. Just think if we had a Show Off Your Car forum and everyone said what a great little car the Yugo is, the darn thing might still be around!

It is quite sad that after eight years of being on the web that IAP members seem to squabble over the saddest things. I was only asking for a section where people could be honest about what they saw and think since for the most part that seems impossible in SOYP. How many times have we seen a pen in SOYP and inside you want to ask why in the world would anyone not only post it, but admit to it? But instead we just type our four little letters of encouragement GJNP or do not comment at all. What was accomplished with that? Better yet what dis-services was done?

Well it seems this was tried back in 2005 and it failed miserably. Have we not evolved in seven years to be able to do something as kind as telling someone that a pen is way under turned or that the finish is lacking? Based on this thread it is painfully obvious that we have not. So please dis-regard this idea and again my apologies to the forum for stirring this up.

Great post!!

One of the reasons I dont post many in the SOYP forum. I'd rather get honest feedback from someone like you, then a few saying Nice Pen.

 

[GoodTurns]

The only pens I post in SOYP are exactly that, pens that I feel deserve showing off. I know I post less than 1% of my finished pens there...usually when I really feel that it is "special". What I consider a "show off" and what you consider a "show off" are likely VERY different (and that is NOT a shot at anyone's ability or puffing up mine...I know I'm not the best, certainly not the most creative, but I enjoy the heck out of making pens and have gotten pretty good at it). I have greatly improved my work through constructive criticism I have received from several members (as have most of us here), usually through PMs. The main problem I see with a "critiques" forum is exactly what we are seeing in this thread...perception, semantics and opinions. Each of us could look at the same pen photo and rate it and we would have a wide spread of numbers! IF folks can keep it civil and professional, I would love to participate (on both sides, showing and critiquing) and grow from the use of a dedicated forum...but that's a HUGE "IF"....$0.02....

 

[Andrew_K99]

Mike there is no need to apologies, it is a good idea in therory and most agree with that. It is just a very hard thing to monitor and I can see how it could get out of hand.

I wonder if a prefix option can be added to SOYP's (like there is for 'Deals Trades Gifts and Wants', see picture) that would state the intent of the SOYP.

Possible prefixes could be 'Beginners:', 'Showing off my:' or 'Critique my:' etc., etc.

 

[edicehouse]

Mike there is no need to apologies, it is a good idea in therory and most agree with that. It is just a very hard thing to monitor and I can see how it could get out of hand.

I wonder if a prefix option can be added to SOYP's (like there is for 'Deals Trades Gifts and Wants', see picture) that would state the intent of the SOYP.

Possible prefixes could be 'Beginners:', 'Showing off my:' or 'Critique my:' etc., etc.

That may be the best thing.

 

[Texatdurango]

My apologies to Mike and the rest of the forum for pushing this idea............It is quite sad that after eight years of being on the web that IAP members seem to squabble over the saddest things. I was only asking for a section where people could be honest about what they saw and think since for the most part that seems impossible in SOYP.

Mike, I don't see a need for an apology, you thought this would be a good idea so you started a thread, no harm in that.

In my opinion...... We need to remember that the same people who over the past few years have been saying... "nice pen, great job" have lately started going overboard with the "Wow, fantastic, best pen I've ever seen, you're the grand master of all pen makers, you rule all, I'll never be as good as you" type of posts.

More and more, we're seeing comments like the ones above even for pens that honestly quite often, aren't that good and yet the accolades keep piling on. Can you imagine the wrath one would receive after posting an honest critique amongst all the oohing and aahing!

I honestly think if a new forum were started you would continue to get the same oohs and aahs posts even when serious critique was asked for and if someone DID give some serious critiquing I'm sure some disagreements would flair up and would generate a few PM's.

For quite some time now, if I see where I could make some constructive suggestions to someones pen, I just send them a PM regardless of where I see their pen.

 

[PenMan1]

If you really want an honest critique forum, it could easily be accomplished in much the same way as a "blind clinical trial".

In this "blind forum", no member could see who posted the pen, and the original poster would not be able to see the screen names of those who left comments. Additionally, the OP would be allowed the option of "letting members see comments" or "keeping all comments private to the OP". Moderators, of course, would need to be able to idendify all posters, and a forum like this would need its own full time moderator.

This is similar to how focus groups work and this methodology has been successfully used for decades.

Respectfully submitted.

 

[Haynie]

If you really want an honest critique forum, it could easily be accomplished in much the same way as a "blind clinical trial".

In this "blind forum", no member could see who posted the pen, and the original poster would not be able to see the screen names of those who left comments. Additionally, the OP would be allowed the option of "letting members see comments" or "keeping all comments private to the OP". Moderators, of course, would need to be able to idendify all posters, and a forum like this would need its own full time moderator.

This is similar to how focus groups work and this methodology has been successfully used for decades.

Respectfully submitted.

This would possibly be a coding nightmare but I think this is a good idea. I don't post because I do not have a pen I want to show off yet. This would give me a chance to get honest criticism.

 

[PenMan1]

It really SHOULDN'T be a coding problem at all. I can tell by the "polling" function of the site that the technology is already there .

Simply treat all posts in this forum as a "poll that doesn't show results". The hard part might be the toggle to allow the OP to turn on and off viewing of comments.

 

[Smitty37]

Evolved in seven years? Mike Where have you been? My guess would be that less than 5% of today's members even belonged 7 years ago. I think when I joined 3 years ago about 25% of today's members didn't belong.

I have the honest and decided opinion that it would not be productive to have a forum such as you suggest. I think if you want that kind of information about your pens you can get it from members whose opinions you value, without controversy.

Btw, no apology necessary....

My apologies to Mike and the rest of the forum for pushing this idea. I rarely posted in the SOYP because the GJNP thing did nothing to help improve my craft. I always had asked for C&C (comments & critiques), and it didn't matter to me if you had never turned a pen. If you saw something that didn't look right I wanted to see from your eyes as well as my own. Rarely would I get a critique, it was all the GJNP BS. Over the years we have been trained that that is what the SOYP forum is for. Just think if we had a Show Off Your Car forum and everyone said what a great little car the Yugo is, the darn thing might still be around!

It is quite sad that after eight years of being on the web that IAP members seem to squabble over the saddest things. I was only asking for a section where people could be honest about what they saw and think since for the most part that seems impossible in SOYP. How many times have we seen a pen in SOYP and inside you want to ask why in the world would anyone not only post it, but admit to it? But instead we just type our four little letters of encouragement GJNP or do not comment at all. What was accomplished with that? Better yet what dis-services was done?

Well it seems this was tried back in 2005 and it failed miserably. Have we not evolved in seven years to be able to do something as kind as telling someone that a pen is way under turned or that the finish is lacking? Based on this thread it is painfully obvious that we have not. So please dis-regard this idea and again my apologies to the forum for stirring this up.

 

[Xander]

Been watching this ping pong match since post 1 and did make a comment, but this has evolved into another topic so...

A few people have said that if someone wants an honest critique of thier work they should do it by PM's...... OK, well....

I'm still fairly new here and I have NO CLUE as to who I should PM for an HONEST critique. And if I did PM a member.... would that person respond? How do I figure out who is willing to help? Way too hard for newish members.

Anyway, looks like this idea (that I thought initially was a good one) has become a hot subject and will probably not happen.

 

[BSea]

Been watching this ping pong match since post 1 and did make a comment, but this has evolved into another topic so...

A few people have said that if someone wants an honest critique of thier work they should do it by PM's...... OK, well....

I'm still fairly new here and I have NO CLUE as to who I should PM for an HONEST critique. And if I did PM a member.... would that person respond? How do I figure out who is willing to help? Way too hard for newish members.

Anyway, looks like this idea (that I thought initially was a good one) has become a hot subject and will probably not happen.

I agree. Besides that, if it were only authorized judges or acquaintances that comment on the work, then we would miss out on a fresh idea from someone who isn't a judge or friend (see above).

And I also believe we are WAY over thinking this. Most times the simplest answer is the best. If you want an honest critique, just ask for it. How hard is that? If someone is giving harsh & rude comments that you don't like, just use the "IGNORE" feature is user CP.

 

[Haynie]

Xander,

I have been amazed by how open and willing to help this place is. Every question I have asked via PM has been answered graciously and openly. Specific questions were asked based on what I read in people's posts. I did not just blindly fire off the questions though. I used the search function for what I was looking for. Do a little research based on what you want to know then read people's posts.

If you happen to NOT get an answer or the responder is an ass, find someone else.

 

[Andrew_K99]

I personally am not a fan of the idea of PM'ing feedback. The poster of the pen isn't the only one that learns from the comments. I've learnd a lot about what people like to see and what doesn't work because someone said something. Had all this been in PM land we as a group wouldn't learn.

 

[Xander]

Xander,

I have been amazed by how open and willing to help this place is. Every question I have asked via PM has been answered graciously and openly. Specific questions were asked based on what I read in people's posts. I did not just blindly fire off the questions though. I used the search function for what I was looking for. Do a little research based on what you want to know then read people's posts.

If you happen to NOT get an answer or the responder is an ass, find someone else.

Haynie, you miss the point. People are suggesting that if "I" want a critique of a pen I should PM... someone. I can't 'research' who to PM or who will give an honest non-biased critique. IF this idea is to work it has to be done in an open forum.

In any case, it looks like we are all flogging the dead horse. I think there has been enough discussion about this and now it's up to the powers that be to take whatever action is appropriate.

 

[Smitty37]

Xander,

I have been amazed by how open and willing to help this place is. Every question I have asked via PM has been answered graciously and openly. Specific questions were asked based on what I read in people's posts. I did not just blindly fire off the questions though. I used the search function for what I was looking for. Do a little research based on what you want to know then read people's posts.

If you happen to NOT get an answer or the responder is an ass, find someone else.

Haynie, you miss the point. People are suggesting that if "I" want a critique of a pen I should PM... someone. I can't 'research' who to PM or who will give an honest non-biased critique. IF this idea is to work it has to be done in an open forum.

In any case, it looks like we are all flogging the dead horse. I think there has been enough discussion about this and now it's up to the powers that be to take whatever action is appropriate.

Nothing prevents you from asking that type of question in the Penturning Forum and members ask them frequently.

 

[76winger]

Been watching this ping pong match since post 1 and did make a comment, but this has evolved into another topic so...

A few people have said that if someone wants an honest critique of thier work they should do it by PM's...... OK, well....

I'm still fairly new here and I have NO CLUE as to who I should PM for an HONEST critique. And if I did PM a member.... would that person respond? How do I figure out who is willing to help? Way too hard for newish members.

Anyway, looks like this idea (that I thought initially was a good one) has become a hot subject and will probably not happen.

I agree. Besides that, if it were only authorized judges or acquaintances that comment on the work, then we would miss out on a fresh idea from someone who isn't a judge or friend (see above).

And I also believe we are WAY over thinking this. Most times the simplest answer is the best. If you want an honest critique, just ask for it. How hard is that? If someone is giving harsh & rude comments that you don't like, just use the "IGNORE" feature is user CP.

I think it's being way over-thought as well. We've been discussing the merits of an additional forum that could be used to garner more critique for the pens we post in it versus the fluffy "That looks great!" stuff that comes out of the SOYP forum.

And the purpose of the forum is to share your posting and it's reviews with the community at large rather than private sharing of thoughts via PMs. Yes that already exists and this hasn't been the topic of this thread. It just keeps getting skewed (no pun intended) those directions because there's too much fear of honest criticism and the open conversations it could bring about.

 

[76winger]

I've also thought about the Penturning forum as an alternative to what we've been discussing, but I keep coming back with the same argument against that thought: They'd really be two different forums that could complement each other.

Penturning being a location for pre-operative discussion, where you look for and ask questions about how to do this process or that task. This is mostly what it is now.

Pen Critique being a post-opertive location to discuss how the end result came out and toss around ideas of how it might be made even better.

 

[Smitty37]

Been watching this ping pong match since post 1 and did make a comment, but this has evolved into another topic so...

A few people have said that if someone wants an honest critique of thier work they should do it by PM's...... OK, well....

I'm still fairly new here and I have NO CLUE as to who I should PM for an HONEST critique. And if I did PM a member.... would that person respond? How do I figure out who is willing to help? Way too hard for newish members.

Anyway, looks like this idea (that I thought initially was a good one) has become a hot subject and will probably not happen.

I agree. Besides that, if it were only authorized judges or acquaintances that comment on the work, then we would miss out on a fresh idea from someone who isn't a judge or friend (see above).

And I also believe we are WAY over thinking this. Most times the simplest answer is the best. If you want an honest critique, just ask for it. How hard is that? If someone is giving harsh & rude comments that you don't like, just use the "IGNORE" feature is user CP.

I think it's being way over-thought as well. We've been discussing the merits of an additional forum that could be used to garner more critique for the pens we post in it versus the fluffy "That looks great!" stuff that comes out of the SOYP forum.

And the purpose of the forum is to share your posting and it's reviews with the community at large rather than private sharing of thoughts via PMs. Yes that already exists and this hasn't been the topic of this thread. It just keeps getting skewed (no pun intended) those directions because there's too much fear of honest criticism and the open conversations it could bring about.

Personally I don't think it is fear of honest criticism at all, but the "open conversations" it could bring about is another story. Regardless of how you try to police it, far too often, there will be a component set involved (I think probably 95% of the pens made by members still use component sets) and someone will dis the set or the manufacturer and the fight will be on.

I count 5 forums (Penturning, Advanced Pen Making, Fountain Pens, Finishing, Casting and Stablizatiion) aside from Show Off Your Pens where you could seek the kinds of criticisms you are looking for - probably from people pretty well versed in the subjest. I just don't think we need another forum of that type.

 

[Jgrden]

I picked on you, Don, because you have thick skin and are willing to stick your neck out once in a while.

 

[its_virgil]

Its all good...its 100 degrees here in tex and I thought a little cold water would fceel good.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Sent from my Samsung Epic using Forum runner

 

[IPD_Mr]

Evolved in seven years? Mike Where have you been? My guess would be that less than 5% of today's members even belonged 7 years ago. I think when I joined 3 years ago about 25% of today's members didn't belong.

I have the honest and decided opinion that it would not be productive to have a forum such as you suggest. I think if you want that kind of information about your pens you can get it from members whose opinions you value, without controversy.

Btw, no apology necessary....

My apologies to Mike and the rest of the forum for pushing this idea. I rarely posted in the SOYP because the GJNP thing did nothing to help improve my craft. I always had asked for C&C (comments & critiques), and it didn't matter to me if you had never turned a pen. If you saw something that didn't look right I wanted to see from your eyes as well as my own. Rarely would I get a critique, it was all the GJNP BS. Over the years we have been trained that that is what the SOYP forum is for. Just think if we had a Show Off Your Car forum and everyone said what a great little car the Yugo is, the darn thing might still be around!

It is quite sad that after eight years of being on the web that IAP members seem to squabble over the saddest things. I was only asking for a section where people could be honest about what they saw and think since for the most part that seems impossible in SOYP. How many times have we seen a pen in SOYP and inside you want to ask why in the world would anyone not only post it, but admit to it? But instead we just type our four little letters of encouragement GJNP or do not comment at all. What was accomplished with that? Better yet what dis-services was done?

Well it seems this was tried back in 2005 and it failed miserably. Have we not evolved in seven years to be able to do something as kind as telling someone that a pen is way under turned or that the finish is lacking? Based on this thread it is painfully obvious that we have not. So please dis-regard this idea and again my apologies to the forum for stirring this up.

That is right Smitty, in seven years this forum has not evolved to a point that people cannot ask for an honest critique without someone making a snarky comment. Just look at this thread and where it has gone. Look at the post of the critique my bic pen making a mockery of the idea. There is a difference in evolved and changed. The membership faces have changed and that does not equate to evolved. Like I said earlier I am sorry I ever bothered to bring the idea up and I should have remembered my conversation with Jeff a year ago. Jeff you were correct in your assessment and I was wrong. I was looking for a way to improve how we communicate on here and hopefully get to the point of helping one another to improve our craft. You can now all return to your hot key responses of GJNP.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Mike, what do you think of the idea I posted here http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18...ritiquing-pens-96681/index10.html#post1392064

Could this do what you envisioned?

 

[76winger]

Mike, what do you think of the idea I posted here http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18...ritiquing-pens-96681/index10.html#post1392064

Could this do what you envisioned?

This idea could benefit in that you could try and do both in one forum, and people wanting to show off and garner critiques wouldn't have to post in two places (although the later would likely happen at different times anyway).

And it may be me, but I had to look at that screen shot 3 or 4 times before I figured out what you were talking about by "prefixes". I thought I was just looking at different titles until I saw the colored prefixes appear on my last viewing. If others got confused on this like me, then there could end up some confusion on how to reply to what postings in a shared forum.

I know you addressed this to Mike, just adding my thoughts.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Mike, what do you think of the idea I posted here http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18...ritiquing-pens-96681/index10.html#post1392064

Could this do what you envisioned?

This idea could benefit in that you could try and do both in one forum, and people wanting to show off and garner critiques wouldn't have to post in two places (although the later would likely happen at different times anyway).

And it may be me, but I had to look at that screen shot 3 or 4 times before I figured out what you were talking about by "prefixes". I thought I was just looking at different titles until I saw the colored prefixes appear on my last viewing. If others got confused on this like me, then there could end up some confusion on how to reply to what postings in a shared forum.

I know you addressed this to Mike, just adding my thoughts.

Good points. I posted for the first time in "Deals ..." and discovered how easy it was to apply the 'prefix' of "For sale:" to my thread.

Not sure if it is the answer, I just liked my idea

 

[jd99]

I think this is a dead subject, It didn't work before, and it looks like it wont work now, and it hasn't worked on other forums.

Look at what happened Mr IPD even took offense to what was a joke and considered it to be (to quote) "a mockery" of his idea. (It wasn't nor did I mean it to be a mockery)

"Look at the post of the critique my bic pen making a mockery of the idea"

This is exactly what would happen in a critique forum, some one is going to get their comments misconstrued (sp) and it's off to the flames.

What is written in text is often not taken in the context it was ment to be, this is how flames get started; happens all the times, people mis read the context of the comment.

Again my 2 cents worth.

 

[BSea]

Mike, what do you think of the idea I posted here http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18...ritiquing-pens-96681/index10.html#post1392064

Could this do what you envisioned?

This idea could benefit in that you could try and do both in one forum, and people wanting to show off and garner critiques wouldn't have to post in two places (although the later would likely happen at different times anyway).

And it may be me, but I had to look at that screen shot 3 or 4 times before I figured out what you were talking about by "prefixes". I thought I was just looking at different titles until I saw the colored prefixes appear on my last viewing. If others got confused on this like me, then there could end up some confusion on how to reply to what postings in a shared forum.

I know you addressed this to Mike, just adding my thoughts.

Good points. I posted for the first time in "Deals ..." and discovered how easy it was to apply the 'prefix' of "For sale:" to my thread.

Not sure if it is the answer, I just liked my idea

I also was a little confused at 1st, but after I figured it out, I think that's the perfect way to use the SOYP forum to asks for critiques.

Just look at this thread and where it has gone. Look at the post of the critique my bic pen making a mockery of the idea.

I guess I missed something? I thought the thread was funny.