Which tools to try! Carbide edition.

[GFHWoodWerks]

I would like to probe the hive for what lathe tools to try. There is a large variation of tools to consider so I'll ask the following questions, keep in mind we are talking carbide only.

1. Which tool length to get for pen and other small turning?
2. Standard or Negative rake? (Both is an acceptable answer as well)
3. Set or individual tools?
4. Brands worth looking at?

I would like to start by saying that I'm totally understand the buy once cry once mentality, but budget is a concern for most new turners because of all the upfront expenditure. So please take that into consideration when answering.

Bonus question: I saw this lathe tool in a YouTube video that had a shaped shaft (hexagon?). I can't seem to find it again, so it might not have value, but if you know what it is can you please edify me on what it is? Also if you've used it, I'd it worthwhile?

Thanks from a new turner, looking to save money through others experience.

 

[Woodchipper]

This is my experience: I started turning years ago and bought Harbor Freight tools...red handle. They are HSS and do a good job. I think I paid about $65 for the set at the time. I bought a Rikon low speed grinder which I keep within two steps of the lathe. Recently, I was at an open house at Woodcraft. The comment on carbide versus HSS: you can start using carbide right away but HSS will take some learning and give better results.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

This is my experience: I started turning years ago and bought Harbor Freight tools...red handle. They are HSS and do a good job. I think I paid about $65 for the set at the time. I bought a Rikon low speed grinder which I keep within two steps of the lathe. Recently, I was at an open house at Woodcraft. The comment on carbide versus HSS: you can start using carbide right away but HSS will take some learning and give better results.

Thanks, I do have a HSS set and 8" low speed grinder (standard wheels) and will be getting CBN wheel eventually. The reason for inquiring about carbide tools is that i understand they are superior for turning resin. Additionally, I want to be able to use an array of tools for turning.

I would think it's possible to do all pen turning solely with a skew, maybe tossing in a thin parting tool. I will train myself to be able to do just that, but I've seen plenty of turners using carbide to turn pens and wanted to gather others thoughts on those.

 

[walshjp17]

Greg,

If all you are looking for is carbide, I recommend Easy Wood Tool's Micro set for turning pens (https://www.easywoodtools.com/shop-micro). They are short handled which allows precise movements close to the work piece. You can swap regular carbide cutters for negative rake cutters in each of the three Micro tools. Another good choice is Craft Supplies USA's carbide Easy Pen Turner which, IIRC, is an exclusive tool Easy Wood Tools makes for CS USA. Finally, Speakeasy Pen Emporium and Supply, Co. sell a variety of carbide tools for pen makers including the Magical Skew, the Negative Rake Scraper and The Diamond Detailer (https://speakeasypen.com/collections/tools).

In response to your Bonus question: the Magical Skew has a hexagonal shaft.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Finally, Speakeasy Pen Emporium and Supply, Co. sell a variety of carbide tools for pen makers including the Magical Skew, the Negative Rake Scraper and The Diamond Detailer (https://speakeasypen.com/collections/tools).

In response to your Bonus question: the Magical Skew has a hexagonal shaft.

This is exactly what I saw in the video. Thanks for that. I see the they make ask if the traditional cutter shapes and their negative rake utilizing the same cutter as the square is genius. Do you have any experience using these tools?

 

[bugradx2]

I can't comment on HSS tooling because I've not used it. I started with carbide and have stayed there.

These are my opinions about carbide, nothing else...

- if possible, buy a brand that allows you to have standard profile and negative rake profile tips. If you're trying to save money is a method to do it because you can always swap cutters and use the same handles
- For the above, an easy low tech way to keep track of edges you've used vs fresh edges is to use a permanent marker on the bottom of the cutter where it sits (seats) against the tool handle bed. Nothing can get to the mark to abrade it and remove it that way. I mark mine as I rotate them to show what sections of the tool I've used
- For any tool, especially carbide, if it gets warm or hot you need to change or rotate edges because it's dull. Seems simple but yet brilliant in it's application. I'm terrible about rotating and sometimes need that as a reminder that I need to do it more often. Ed Brown, Mark Dreyer & John Underhill pointed it out in the last Exotic Blanks webcast.
- negative rake cutters can be your friend when working with acrylics because they're designed for it. I've also used them to skim cut wood blanks to get them extra smooth
- negative rake cutters with a radius for the square are nice because they are a little gentler than a true "square" even a negative rake one.
- you can keep a diamond stone around to touch up a carbide cutter with a regular edge, it won't be as good as a new one and will dull faster but if you don't keep spares around it will help you keep turning until a new one gets in your hands. When I started that was all I did because I had standard profile tools only. The cutting difference and length of usage time for a fresh cutter vs one that's gone over the diamond stone is appreciable in my mind. I've pretty much stopped trying to hone them.
- carbide parting tools are pretty easy to use, just make sure you move the tool rest
- I know Easy Wood Tools makes a super narrow diamond point tool. It's handy if you need something super fine done. I don't own one but have a buddy who's 10 minutes away who is a kind soul. I've made a couple of the Father Sing pens from Craft Supplies and needed it for that. Not sure if anyone else does or not
- I've used three different sets of carbide tool lengths for projects. Rockler mini, Easy Wood Tool mini & Easy Wood Tool mid. At 6'2" and appropriate dad bod, far and away my preferred size is the mid size. It's just easier for me to use. The mini is ok and works just fine but I find the mid length is what I reach for most often. The cool thing is the mid size and mini size use the same cutter heads. I've tried the micro and just don't find them that comfortable. I'm starting to learn about turning other things and having the mid size tools will be better for that anyway.
- As I've expanded into using my lathe more and more I've been very fortunate to get some tools and now keep a set of standard carbide cutters and a negative rake square & round on my bench all the time. I've not bought another handle for a negative rake diamond cutter yet as I don't use that very often on acrylics. My daughter may buy one for herself before I do because she likes to use it on bottle stoppers
- I've become an Easy Wood Tools shop, multiple reasons why and I'll fully admit winning a set of them pushed me way that way but they were pretty much the brand I was targeting to buy anyway. I've since bought more EWT cutters too. Lots of folks use other brands and I'll let them comment about their experiences. I can only talk about Rockler & EWT

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

I can't comment on HSS tooling because I've not used it. I started with carbide and have stayed there.

These are my opinions about carbide, nothing else...

- if possible, buy a brand that allows you to have standard profile and negative rake profile tips. If you're trying to save money is a method to do it because you can always swap cutters and use the same handles
- For the above, an easy low tech way to keep track of edges you've used vs fresh edges is to use a permanent marker on the bottom of the cutter where it sits (seats) against the tool handle bed. Nothing can get to the mark to abrade it and remove it that way. I mark mine as I rotate them to show what sections of the tool I've used
- For any tool, especially carbide, if it gets warm or hot you need to change or rotate edges because it's dull. Seems simple but yet brilliant in it's application. I'm terrible about rotating and sometimes need that as a reminder that I need to do it more often. Ed Brown, Mark Dreyer & John Underhill pointed it out in the last Exotic Blanks webcast.
- negative rake cutters can be your friend when working with acrylics because they're designed for it. I've also used them to skim cut wood blanks to get them extra smooth
- negative rake cutters with a radius for the square are nice because they are a little gentler than a true "square" even a negative rake one.
- you can keep a diamond stone around to touch up a carbide cutter with a regular edge, it won't be as good as a new one and will dull faster but if you don't keep spares around it will help you keep turning until a new one gets in your hands. When I started that was all I did because I had standard profile tools only. The cutting difference and length of usage time for a fresh cutter vs one that's gone over the diamond stone is appreciable in my mind. I've pretty much stopped trying to hone them.
- carbide parting tools are pretty easy to use, just make sure you move the tool rest
- I know Easy Wood Tools makes a super narrow diamond point tool. It's handy if you need something super fine done. I don't own one but have a buddy who's 10 minutes away who is a kind soul. I've made a couple of the Father Sing pens from Craft Supplies and needed it for that. Not sure if anyone else does or not
- I've used three different sets of carbide tool lengths for projects. Rockler mini, Easy Wood Tool mini & Easy Wood Tool mid. At 6'2" and appropriate dad bod, far and away my preferred size is the mid size. It's just easier for me to use. The mini is ok and works just fine but I find the mid length is what I reach for most often. The cool thing is the mid size and mini size use the same cutter heads. I've tried the micro and just don't find them that comfortable. I'm starting to learn about turning other things and having the mid size tools will be better for that anyway.
- As I've expanded into using my lathe more and more I've been very fortunate to get some tools and now keep a set of standard carbide cutters and a negative rake square & round on my bench all the time. I've not bought another handle for a negative rake diamond cutter yet as I don't use that very often on acrylics. My daughter may buy one for herself before I do because she likes to use it on bottle stoppers
- I've become an Easy Wood Tools shop, multiple reasons why and I'll fully admit winning a set of them pushed me way that way but they were pretty much the brand I was targeting to buy anyway. I've since bought more EWT cutters too. Lots of folks use other brands and I'll let them comment about their experiences. I can only talk about Rockler & EWT

Thanks very much. It seems to be EWT is the gold standard of carbide tools.

 

[Mortalis]

I use my Continental Spindle Gouge (Came in the Harbor Freight red handled set) for roughing the blank and my skew for finishing the turning. I can more easily take micro cuts with the skew than I can with any other tool.
I have a set (Round, Square and Diamond Point) of "The Axe" carbide tool holders. I don't use them at all for pen turning.
I use the Diamond Point carbide tool for finessing my tenon on bowls.
I played around with the carbide tools but don't really like the way they cut. That could just be me but they seem to not cut then all or sudden take a big bite. Again, might just be me and the fact I dont have the touch with them.

 

[egnald]

As far as wood turning goes, I am completely self taught I bought a lathe in 2016ish and away I went. I started out with standard chisels, but since I didn't have a precision sharpening system, I bought a set of the Rockler mini carbide tools. They are 13.5" inches overall length. I used them for a year or so before I splurged and bought one of the Easy Wood Tools, mid sized carbide Easy Finisher at my somewhat local WoodCraft. Over the next several months, I rounded the set it out with the rougher, the detailer, and the carbide parting tool. Because I'm lazy and didn't like changing out the carbide cutters on the finisher between the square and square with radius cutters, and now that I had a good set of tools to work with, I built my own tools with slightly longer handles based on the Easy Wood Tools design so I could have additional carbide cutter designs all ready to go without having to change anything.

Only from my personal experience and choices:

1. Which tool length to get for pen and other small turning?
I like the mid size (and my sized) tools. Easy Wood Tools mid size are 21" inches overall and the wood handle part is 13" inches. My homemade variation is 23" inches overall and the wood handle is 17" inches.

2. Standard or Negative rake? (Both is an acceptable answer as well)
I really use both styles, I use standard rake for wood and I use the negative rake for the brittle plastic blanks like Rhino and Inlace Acrylester. I buy all of my replacement carbide cutters from A-Z Carbide as they are quite a bit less expensive than the name brand cutters. Since negative rake was only available from Easy Wood Tools at the time, I designed tool that would use a standard cutter, but designed so that the cutter would be presented to the workpiece at a negative rake angle.

3. Set or individual tools?
Having gone through the process and considering what cutters are available today, the only individual tool that I would purchase is the Easy Wood Tools mid sized carbide parting tool. I would make all of the other tools. I realize that it is easy to say because there was a learning curve involved, but I really like my own tools best. Compared to Easy Wood Tools, my handles are a little bit longer, a little bit smaller in diameter, and have been weighted by filling the back side with lead. (I essentially filled up the the back of the tool with 38 caliber 158 grain lead bullets).

4. Brands worth looking at?
Easy Wood Tools is the only brand I am familiar with and they have served me well, so I really don't have much to offer here. Regardless of brand, I highly recommend checking out A-Z Carbide for replacement cutters. (The offer tools now too). They have an online cross reference chart between the cutters they offer and the major brands of tools.

I haven't delved into making bowls yet, just pens and other small turnings. I'm also sure you have been getting loads of great information from the IAP membership as it has members with very diverse experiences. I have really enjoyed the questions you have posed in the forums.

Best Regards,
Dave

PS Here are a few pictures of my tools made with hickory handles and 3/8" square steel bars (except for two made from a 3/8" hex rods that present the cutters at an angle to the work - similar to how the Magical Skew designed by by T. Shadow & Company (Magicbob). They are the two tools on the right side in the following thumbnails).


The two tools on the left are the "negative rake" type tools.


And here are the notes related to how I modified my tool design to use standard cutters that present with a negative rake angle.

 

[bugradx2]

Thanks very much. It seems to be EWT is the gold standard of carbide tools.

I'm sure the nice folks at EWT would prefer that rating. They are very nice tools, US made which is also nice.

In fairness, I've never used any other brands aside from Rockler. Honestly, I've not seen any other brands of carbide tools in stores from those two brands.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

As far as wood turning goes, I am completely self taught I bought a lathe in 2016ish and away I went. I started out with standard chisels, but since I didn't have a precision sharpening system, I bought a set of the Rockler mini carbide tools. They are 13.5" inches overall length. I used them for a year or so before I splurged and bought one of the Easy Wood Tools, mid sized carbide Easy Finisher at my somewhat local WoodCraft. Over the next several months, I rounded the set it out with the rougher, the detailer, and the carbide parting tool. Because I'm lazy and didn't like changing out the carbide cutters on the finisher between the square and square with radius cutters, and now that I had a good set of tools to work with, I built my own tools with slightly longer handles based on the Easy Wood Tools design so I could have additional carbide cutter designs all ready to go without having to change anything.

Only from my personal experience and choices:

1. Which tool length to get for pen and other small turning?
I like the mid size (and my sized) tools. Easy Wood Tools mid size are 21" inches overall and the wood handle part is 13" inches. My homemade variation is 23" inches overall and the wood handle is 17" inches.

2. Standard or Negative rake? (Both is an acceptable answer as well)
I really use both styles, I use standard rake for wood and I use the negative rake for the brittle plastic blanks like Rhino and Inlace Acrylester. I buy all of my replacement carbide cutters from A-Z Carbide as they are quite a bit less expensive than the name brand cutters. Since negative rake was only available from Easy Wood Tools at the time, I designed tool that would use a standard cutter, but designed so that the cutter would be presented to the workpiece at a negative rake angle.

3. Set or individual tools?
Having gone through the process and considering what cutters are available today, the only individual tool that I would purchase is the Easy Wood Tools mid sized carbide parting tool. I would make all of the other tools. I realize that it is easy to say because there was a learning curve involved, but I really like my own tools best. Compared to Easy Wood Tools, my handles are a little bit longer, a little bit smaller in diameter, and have been weighted by filling the back side with lead. (I essentially filled up the the back of the tool with 38 caliber 158 grain lead bullets).

4. Brands worth looking at?
Easy Wood Tools is the only brand I am familiar with and they have served me well, so I really don't have much to offer here. Regardless of brand, I highly recommend checking out A-Z Carbide for replacement cutters. (The offer tools now too). They have an online cross reference chart between the cutters they offer and the major brands of tools.

I haven't delved into making bowls yet, just pens and other small turnings. I'm also sure you have been getting loads of great information from the IAP membership as it has members with very diverse experiences. I have really enjoyed the questions you have posed in the forums.

Best Regards,
Dave

PS Here are a few pictures of my tools made with hickory handles and 3/8" square steel bars (except for two made from a 3/8" hex rods that present the cutters at an angle to the work - similar to how the Magical Skew designed by by T. Shadow & Company (Magicbob). They are the two tools on the right side in the following thumbnails).
View attachment 378337 View attachment 378336

The two tools on the left are the "negative rake" type tools.
View attachment 378333 View attachment 378334

And here are the notes related to how I modified my tool design to use standard cutters that present with a negative rake angle.
View attachment 378335

Thanks for your input. I've considered making tools myself (old tool designer, injection molding, and design engineer here). For now though I'm going to buy and go from there, down the road I'll make some stuff though.

 

[jttheclockman]

For me there are only 2 tools when it comes to making pens of any type material including segmented with wood, acrylics, or metals. They are a round cutter carbide cutter. I like Easy Wood tools full size. The second tool is a good HSS skew 1/2" wide. Pick your brand but I buy from Crafts Supply USA. Now if you are talking about other turning projects then I highly suggest spend hours on the net and watch videos of what you want to turn. Everyone is different. As you see here different brands , sizes and cutter are mentioned. How does that all help you? There are
choices. Good luck.

Just want to mention a round cutter is the best for doing what we do. It does a couple things. It does not dig into the project as a square cutter can and it gives you practice how to use a skew because you use such a small section when using a skew as you do with a round cutter. My opinion of course and take it for whatever it is worth.

 

[Hippie3180]

Greg,

If all you are looking for is carbide, I recommend Easy Wood Tool's Micro set for turning pens (https://www.easywoodtools.com/shop-micro). They are short handled which allows precise movements close to the work piece. You can swap regular carbide cutters for negative rake cutters in each of the three Micro tools. Another good choice is Craft Supplies USA's carbide Easy Pen Turner which, IIRC, is an exclusive tool Easy Wood Tools makes for CS USA. Finally, Speakeasy Pen Emporium and Supply, Co. sell a variety of carbide tools for pen makers including the Magical Skew, the Negative Rake Scraper and The Diamond Detailer (https://speakeasypen.com/collections/tools).

In response to your Bonus question: the Magical Skew has a hexagonal shaft.

I second the Easy Wood Tools Micro Set, I bought them for myself my hands are very small and I wanted something I felt gave me good control. Funny thing my husband uses them all the time too. I think the inserts last a long time as well I'm a big fan.

 

[randyrls]

As far as wood turning goes, I am completely self taught I bought a lathe in 2016ish and away I went. I started out with standard chisels, but since I didn't have a precision sharpening system, I bought a set of the Rockler mini carbide tools. They are 13.5" inches overall length. I used them for a year or so before I splurged and bought one of the Easy Wood Tools, mid sized carbide Easy Finisher at my somewhat local WoodCraft. Over the next several months, I rounded the set it out with the rougher, the detailer, and the carbide parting tool. Because I'm lazy and didn't like changing out the carbide cutters on the finisher between the square and square with radius cutters, and now that I had a good set of tools to work with, I built my own tools with slightly longer handles based on the Easy Wood Tools design so I could have additional carbide cutter designs all ready to go without having to change anything.

Only from my personal experience and choices:

1. Which tool length to get for pen and other small turning?
I like the mid size (and my sized) tools. Easy Wood Tools mid size are 21" inches overall and the wood handle part is 13" inches. My homemade variation is 23" inches overall and the wood handle is 17" inches.

2. Standard or Negative rake? (Both is an acceptable answer as well)
I really use both styles, I use standard rake for wood and I use the negative rake for the brittle plastic blanks like Rhino and Inlace Acrylester. I buy all of my replacement carbide cutters from A-Z Carbide as they are quite a bit less expensive than the name brand cutters. Since negative rake was only available from Easy Wood Tools at the time, I designed tool that would use a standard cutter, but designed so that the cutter would be presented to the workpiece at a negative rake angle.

3. Set or individual tools?
Having gone through the process and considering what cutters are available today, the only individual tool that I would purchase is the Easy Wood Tools mid sized carbide parting tool. I would make all of the other tools. I realize that it is easy to say because there was a learning curve involved, but I really like my own tools best. Compared to Easy Wood Tools, my handles are a little bit longer, a little bit smaller in diameter, and have been weighted by filling the back side with lead. (I essentially filled up the the back of the tool with 38 caliber 158 grain lead bullets).

4. Brands worth looking at?
Easy Wood Tools is the only brand I am familiar with and they have served me well, so I really don't have much to offer here. Regardless of brand, I highly recommend checking out A-Z Carbide for replacement cutters. (The offer tools now too). They have an online cross reference chart between the cutters they offer and the major brands of tools.

I haven't delved into making bowls yet, just pens and other small turnings. I'm also sure you have been getting loads of great information from the IAP membership as it has members with very diverse experiences. I have really enjoyed the questions you have posed in the forums.

Best Regards,
Dave

PS Here are a few pictures of my tools made with hickory handles and 3/8" square steel bars (except for two made from a 3/8" hex rods that present the cutters at an angle to the work - similar to how the Magical Skew designed by by T. Shadow & Company (Magicbob). They are the two tools on the right side in the following thumbnails).
View attachment 378337 View attachment 378336

The two tools on the left are the "negative rake" type tools.
View attachment 378333 View attachment 378334

And here are the notes related to how I modified my tool design to use standard cutters that present with a negative rake angle.

That works for you and that is good. Opinion only: The whole rake / negative rake is mostly irrelevant for pens. As you show only the angle formed by the cutting edge and the blank are important. Radius and round cutters present a smaller cutting area to the blank and thus less force on the blank. If you present the tool to the blank below center you will peel off endless streams of ribbons. You are applying the force into the blank (supported cut). The more below center you go, the more aggressive the cut and the more force you apply to the blank. If you are getting "nits" your force is pulling pieces out of the blank (unsupported cut). It is the same as with wood. There it is called "supported vs unsupported" cuts and is the same effect. Except for roughing I do all finishing cuts with a skew with a flat bevel.

 

[randyrls]

Bonus question: I saw this lathe tool in a YouTube video that had a shaped shaft (hexagon?). I can't seem to find it again, so it might not have value, but if you know what it is can you please edify me on what it is? Also if you've used it, I'd it worthwhile?

Gregory; I have made my own carbide tools using hex shafts. The hex shaft has limited use for spindles. I use them for bowls and larger work. AND to answer your next ?? Yes, those are golf club grips!
https://www.penturners.org/media/carbide-tipped-turning-tools.16987/

I made these on my metal working tools... "Hello, My name is Randy and I am a tool hoarder!"

 

[walshjp17]

This is exactly what I saw in the video. Thanks for that. I see the they make ask if the traditional cutter shapes and their negative rake utilizing the same cutter as the square is genius. Do you have any experience using these tools?

I have used the Speakeasy Negative Rake tools extensively over the past four or five years and can say it works a treat. I have rarely, if ever, had a catch with it and it cuts quite well as long as you use high speed (I normally turn pen blanks at about 3500 RPM) and use light cuts. It works equally as well on wood, acrylics, resins and other materials. Prior to the Negative Rake tool, I used the Magical Skew with similar success.

 

[zorro9]

Gregory; I have made my own carbide tools using hex shafts. The hex shaft has limited use for spindles. I use them for bowls and larger work. AND to answer your next ?? Yes, those are golf club grips!
https://www.penturners.org/media/carbide-tipped-turning-tools.16987/

I made these on my metal working tools... "Hello, My name is Randy and I am a tool hoarder!"

Why hex?
golf grips are genius!

 

[randyrls]

Why hex?
golf grips are genius!

The Hex puts a flat as a reference point for the tool. You can also make the cutting point directly above the support to reduce the tendency of the tool to "torque" when cutting. In truth it is not MUCH better than round, but it is a little bit better.

 

[mChavez]

I only turn with carbide.
With the exception of using narrow HSS tools for parting.

They are dirt cheap to make yourself. A length of square steel bar. Drill a hole, tap, file the tip. Turn a pretty wooden handle on your woodworking lathe and epoxy the steel bar into it. Screw on a cheap carbide insert. Bob's your uncle. $12 and an hour of fun in the workshop. Even less time per tool if you do 4 holders at a time.

When I see $100 bucks for a handled steel rod I admire the marketing dept's boldness. Make sure you get the 4-tools-for-$300 bargain

Round insert, 16-14mm:
Your main carbide tool to rough out blanks, shape cylinders and turn concave shapes.

Straight square shape:
I use it mainly for turning convex shapes with the side. Never get the whole side to contact the workpiece to avoid severe chatter.
Proper use of the square lets you produce very consistent convex results - doing the same with a round insert would be very hard! Think of turning 16 almost-identical pawns with round heads for a chess set.
The tip can be used against the work to take very aggressive cuts, even at very small diameters.
Tip also used for fine detailing work.
Advanced technique allows a lot of different cuts where you register the square side against the work (without pushing the tool into the workpiece!), then gently rotate the tool into the work and slowly slide it along to make gentle cuts with the tip.

Diamond insert (slightly rounded corners):
Turning very fine details, where the square doesn't fit.

Convex square:
Never found a good use for it, apart from initial roughing of very dense wood.

Negative rake:
Never tried it. Never felt the need for it, and they seem to cost a lot more than bog standard flat ones. Carbide scrapes, so you should be fine with straight.

Hex bars:
There is a technique where you rotate a round carbide insert 45 degrees and make smoother sliding cuts. I guess hex will help with that - a sharp steel square rod can mark your toolpost surface, and is quite unstable is you are balancing it on its corner. I never found that the higher risk of messing up the workpiece is worth the benefit of the smoother 45 degree cut. I'd stick to square bar.

Handle length & square bar width:
Makes no difference whatsoever. Longer/bigger ones allow you to hog off wood for turning a bowl, and do very fine work on a pen/chess piece/very fine finials. Absolutely no need to buy smaller handles for smaller work, imho.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

I only turn with carbide.
With the exception of using narrow HSS tools for parting.

They are dirt cheap to make yourself. A length of square steel bar. Drill a hole, tap, file the tip. Turn a pretty wooden handle on your woodworking lathe and epoxy the steel bar into it. Screw on a cheap carbide insert. Bob's your uncle. $12 and an hour of fun in the workshop. Even less time per tool if you do 4 holders at a time.

When I see $100 bucks for a handled steel rod I admire the marketing dept's boldness. Make sure you get the 4-tools-for-$300 bargain

Round insert, 16-14mm:
Your main carbide tool to rough out blanks, shape cylinders and turn concave shapes.

Straight square shape:
I use it mainly for turning convex shapes with the side. Never get the whole side to contact the workpiece to avoid severe chatter.
Proper use of the square lets you produce very consistent convex results - doing the same with a round insert would be very hard! Think of turning 16 almost-identical pawns with round heads for a chess set.
The tip can be used against the work to take very aggressive cuts, even at very small diameters.
Tip also used for fine detailing work.
Advanced technique allows a lot of different cuts where you register the square side against the work (without pushing the tool into the workpiece!), then gently rotate the tool into the work and slowly slide it along to make gentle cuts with the tip.

Diamond insert (slightly rounded corners):
Turning very fine details, where the square doesn't fit.

Convex square:
Never found a good use for it, apart from initial roughing of very dense wood.

Negative rake:
Never tried it. Never felt the need for it, and they seem to cost a lot more than bog standard flat ones. Carbide scrapes, so you should be fine with straight.

Hex bars:
There is a technique where you rotate a round carbide insert 45 degrees and make smoother sliding cuts. I guess hex will help with that - a sharp steel square rod can mark your toolpost surface, and is quite unstable is you are balancing it on its corner. I never found that the higher risk of messing up the workpiece is worth the benefit of the smoother 45 degree cut. I'd stick to square bar.

Handle length & square bar width:
Makes no difference whatsoever. Longer/bigger ones allow you to hog off wood for turning a bowl, and do very fine work on a pen/chess piece/very fine finials. Absolutely no need to buy smaller handles for smaller work, imho.

Thanks for your well detailed opinion on my question. I appreciate getting different perspectives.

 

[howsitwork]

As far as wood turning goes, I am completely self taught I bought a lathe in 2016ish and away I went. I started out with standard chisels, but since I didn't have a precision sharpening system, I bought a set of the Rockler mini carbide tools. They are 13.5" inches overall length. I used them for a year or so before I splurged and bought one of the Easy Wood Tools, mid sized carbide Easy Finisher at my somewhat local WoodCraft. Over the next several months, I rounded the set it out with the rougher, the detailer, and the carbide parting tool. Because I'm lazy and didn't like changing out the carbide cutters on the finisher between the square and square with radius cutters, and now that I had a good set of tools to work with, I built my own tools with slightly longer handles based on the Easy Wood Tools design so I could have additional carbide cutter designs all ready to go without having to change anything.

Only from my personal experience and choices:

1. Which tool length to get for pen and other small turning?
I like the mid size (and my sized) tools. Easy Wood Tools mid size are 21" inches overall and the wood handle part is 13" inches. My homemade variation is 23" inches overall and the wood handle is 17" inches.

2. Standard or Negative rake? (Both is an acceptable answer as well)
I really use both styles, I use standard rake for wood and I use the negative rake for the brittle plastic blanks like Rhino and Inlace Acrylester. I buy all of my replacement carbide cutters from A-Z Carbide as they are quite a bit less expensive than the name brand cutters. Since negative rake was only available from Easy Wood Tools at the time, I designed tool that would use a standard cutter, but designed so that the cutter would be presented to the workpiece at a negative rake angle.

3. Set or individual tools?
Having gone through the process and considering what cutters are available today, the only individual tool that I would purchase is the Easy Wood Tools mid sized carbide parting tool. I would make all of the other tools. I realize that it is easy to say because there was a learning curve involved, but I really like my own tools best. Compared to Easy Wood Tools, my handles are a little bit longer, a little bit smaller in diameter, and have been weighted by filling the back side with lead. (I essentially filled up the the back of the tool with 38 caliber 158 grain lead bullets).

4. Brands worth looking at?
Easy Wood Tools is the only brand I am familiar with and they have served me well, so I really don't have much to offer here. Regardless of brand, I highly recommend checking out A-Z Carbide for replacement cutters. (The offer tools now too). They have an online cross reference chart between the cutters they offer and the major brands of tools.

I haven't delved into making bowls yet, just pens and other small turnings. I'm also sure you have been getting loads of great information from the IAP membership as it has members with very diverse experiences. I have really enjoyed the questions you have posed in the forums.

Best Regards,
Dave

PS Here are a few pictures of my tools made with hickory handles and 3/8" square steel bars (except for two made from a 3/8" hex rods that present the cutters at an angle to the work - similar to how the Magical Skew designed by by T. Shadow & Company (Magicbob). They are the two tools on the right side in the following thumbnails).
View attachment 378337 View attachment 378336

The two tools on the left are the "negative rake" type tools.
View attachment 378333 View attachment 378334

And here are the notes related to how I modified my tool design to use standard cutters that present with a negative rake angle.
View attachment 378335

Why the "weld ?" behind the tip on the first photo?

Was it just to give positive tip location and repeatability of position?

Intriguing idea , not yet gone down the carbide rabbit hole ( apart from for deep hollowing that is )

 

[egnald]

Why the "weld ?" behind the tip on the first photo?

Was it just to give positive tip location and repeatability of position?

Intriguing idea , not yet gone down the carbide rabbit hole ( apart from for deep hollowing that is )

You are spot on - what you are seeing is a blob of JB Weld epoxy that I put on it to help keep the carbide from rotating when I tighten down the screw. If I was a better machinist I would have made some kind of profile in the tool shaft itself, but for my purposes, the JB weld works OK and it was simple enough to apply. The weld became less pronounced after I applied gun bluing to the shafts.

Dave

 

[howsitwork]

You are spot on - what you are seeing is a blob of JB Weld epoxy that I put on it to help keep the carbide from rotating when I tighten down the screw. If I was a better machinist I would have made some kind of profile in the tool shaft itself, but for my purposes, the JB weld works OK and it was simple enough to apply. The weld became less pronounced after I applied gun bluing to the shafts.

Dave

Hey Dave ,

the best tool is the one that works for you. !

I made myself a round skew and enjoyed using it so much I now have a12 mm and a 6 mm one for different jobs .

keep up the good work

Ian