Pen Maker's Challenge-Week 1- Results Posted

[wudnhed]

Originally posted by GaryMGg


Gotta give it more thought. Where's my Single barrel bourbon????

Whew! I'm gonna go find our bottle too, got some for X-Mas. You guys are making my head spin so maybe I don't need anything to drink[}] (actually I"m drinking a Chelada).

I like Lou's input on this subject, the voice of reason, unlike Ed . I will accept a lamination as long as you segment it and do the glue ups yourself [}]

 

[Chuck Key]

Originally posted by DCBluesman


"Segmented turning is turning on a lathe where the initial workpiece is composed of multiple glued-together parts. The process involves gluing up several pieces of wood to create patterns and visual effects in turned projects.

Segmented turning is also known as polychromatic turning.

In traditional wood turning, the template is a single piece of wood. The size, grain orientation and colors of the wood, will frame how it can be turned into an object like a bowl, platter, or vase. With segmented turning, the size and patterns are limited only by imagination, skill and patience.

While the vast majority of segmented turnings are vessels of one sort or another, strictly speaking, any turned object comprising multiple pieces of glued wood could be classified as a segmented turning. Examples include pens, salt and pepper mills, and rolling pins. By cutting and re-assembling pieces after they are turned, unique forms can be created, crossing over to pure art."

That is a pretty narrow view. Tibbetts must be a wood turner. What about all the ohter materials used in pen making? Many have mentioned grain direction. Some of the materials we use have no grain. Any materials may be used for the challenge.

Chuckie

 

[fernhills]

huhhh[|)]

 

[wudnhed]

Originally posted by fernhills

huhhh[|)]

I feel your pain, LOL!!!!!!

 

[ed4copies]

Always good to stir up a little THOUGHT!!

So, sounds like for the purposes of the contest, but not necessarily to define the term, segmentation, the glue must have been applied BY THE penturner in question, making OSB Out of contention.

 

[NCWoodworker]

Gary, I agree with the 'definition/explanation you have above'

Ed, I think if anyone wants to enter the segmentation contest by inserting one dowel into on pen blank, by all means, enter. If that pen wins, then that turner has something to teach us all!

just my 2 cents....
Chris

btw...I like your questioning, Ed...frustrating as it may be to split hairs, it can be fun to really think through....

 

[Proud_Poppa_of_2]

Originally posted by GaryMGg


To me, a segmentation is a glue-up comprised of different pieces that may run with or against the grain but are not primarily a lamination.

Originally posted by DCBluesman


"Segmented turning is turning on a lathe where the initial workpiece is composed of multiple glued-together parts.

Does it have to be glue? What about paste?

 

[Scott]

Interesting discussion!

I don't think segmentation and lamination have to be mutually exclusive. If they were, it would take somebody about a day to prove you wrong! Yes, Tibbits is a woodturner, and does some fantastic work! But just like we penturners will make a pen out of almost anything and still call it a pen, I feel we would segment, or laminate, or whatever, almost any material to come up with interesting patterns and combinations! And in a contest called the Penmaker's Challenge, the purpose is to ENCOURAGE new and innovative methods, not discourage them. My two cents.

Becca is the boss in this contest. What she says goes. I encourage people not to pick the rules apart, but also don't be afraid to ask and clarify! I don't think anybody has stepped over the line here, and in fact we have had a wonderful discussion taking us places where we haven't been before. Isn't that why we're here?

Scott.

PS - Ed, I have seen some interesting segmented bowls made up of pieces of OSB glued together! I think the key is whether the person making the piece is doing the gluing, as opposed to buying a material made up of glued together pieces. SG

 

[GaryMGg]

Originally posted by Proud_Poppa_of_2
Does it have to be glue? What about paste?

Great, just great! We can't figure out what the heck we're supposed to build for this hootenanny and now you gotta confuse the issue by making us decide between paste 'n glue. Next thing, you'll be asking if epoxy is okay to use or if the pen can be made from bird seed, corn crib leftovers or pine tree droppings.

[)]

 

[badger]

so I got mine done. all i need to do is send pictures to the email in the first post right?

 

[wudnhed]

Originally posted by badger

so I got mine done. all i need to do is send pictures to the email in the first post right?

That's correct and don't forget to include your IAP name [8D]

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by NCWoodworker

Gary, I agree with the 'definition/explanation you have above'

Ed, I think if anyone wants to enter the segmentation contest by inserting one dowel into on pen blank, by all means, enter. If that pen wins, then that turner has something to teach us all!

just my 2 cents....
Chris

btw...I like your questioning, Ed...frustrating as it may be to split hairs, it can be fun to really think through....

Chris,

I will confess I have been giving thought to laminating pieces of plastic together in some of my pens (I know, others have DONE this for a year or so, never said I was INNOVATIVE - I leave THAT to Dawn). However, I DO want to advertise them properly at shows. So, I really AM interested in what makes it "segmented" which sounds much more "highbrow" than "Laminated" or "Plywood" (Plyplasic, however, COULD be interesting)

So, I thought I could get people thinking and, perhaps, find some clarification that was on "common ground". We'll see.

As always, thanks to the folks who have and will take part in this conversation. I find you all VERY courteous and receptive to others' opinions, which makes for a good discussion or even debate.

We CAN disagree without being disagreeable - but I NEVER doubted that.

 

[NCWoodworker]

It looks like it's time to coin a new term to instill complexity in the potential customer. I like plyplastic, but maybe we should be more creative...something like 'Acryply' (I'm thinking it would be pronounced 'akriplee'. If you wanted to get really fancy, we could discuss the pen as being made from a complex 'poly acryply' process. A process that was created as the result of a collaborative effort among the top 4,000(how many members here?) pen turners around the globe. ...we should put a TM on that hah

Cheers,
Chris

 

[GaryMGg]

Originally posted by NCWoodworker
pronounced 'akriplee'

Yeah but is that pronounce: "Ahk! Ripple.'
or
A Kripple?

Enquiring minds, don'cha know.

 

[ed4copies]

Run with it, Chris.

Let me know when you reach the goal - THEN I'll copy it!!![}][}]

 

[NCWoodworker]

Originally posted by GaryMGg


Yeah but is that pronounce: "Ahk! Ripple.'
or
A Kripple?

That's not politically correct, which reminds me, we need to encorporate 'green' into the name, somehow, to make it current, intimidating AND friendly. Hmmm... 'eviro-acryply'??? (N-vi-ro Ahk-ri-plee)

Originally posted by ed4copies

Run with it, Chris.
Let me know when you reach the goal - THEN I'll copy it!!!

No way I'm sharing this idea...it's too good. I understand that the competition is so fierce out there that we must keep some things close to the vest...at least so I've read [}][}]

Cheers,
Chris

 

[mwenman]

What makes it segmented?

By definition:

divided into or composed of segments or sections <segmented worms>

so using that definition, taking a blank, and just cutting it in half or any portion thereof either horizontally, vertically, and or diagonally and gluing it back together makes it segmented or sectioned.

Nowhere in the definition does it state that an item of different density, composition, etc needs to be inserted wherein that would then fall into a different definition of lamination.

Regardless of how things do get interpreted, will definately be a pleasure to view all the entries that have been submitted.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by mwenman

What makes it segmented?

By definition:

divided into or composed of segments or sections <segmented worms>

so using that definition, taking a blank, and just cutting it in half or any portion thereof either horizontally, vertically, and or diagonally and gluing it back together makes it segmented or sectioned.

Nowhere in the definition does it state that an item of different density, composition, etc needs to be inserted wherein that would then fall into a different definition of lamination.

Regardless of how things do get interpreted, will definately be a pleasure to view all the entries that have been submitted.

Mike,

That's precisely why I didn't like the dictionary for this one.

IF you cut a piece of wood in half and glue it back together, you don't have a SEGMENT, I think the woodworking community would say, YOU HAVE A REPAIR!!!

But, if you put a piece of the same species of wood in the middle of your repair, you have a SEGMENT.???????

I THINK the woodworking clubs would say, YES. But, is that the grounds for a DEFINITION????

More food for thought!!!

 

[badger]

Originally posted by mwenman

What makes it segmented?

By definition:

divided into or composed of segments or sections <segmented worms>

so using that definition, taking a blank, and just cutting it in half or any portion thereof either horizontally, vertically, and or diagonally and gluing it back together makes it segmented or sectioned.

Nowhere in the definition does it state that an item of different density, composition, etc needs to be inserted wherein that would then fall into a different definition of lamination.

Yes, but does it look cool?

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Originally posted by badger

Originally posted by mwenman

What makes it segmented?

By definition:

divided into or composed of segments or sections <segmented worms>

so using that definition, taking a blank, and just cutting it in half or any portion thereof either horizontally, vertically, and or diagonally and gluing it back together makes it segmented or sectioned.

Nowhere in the definition does it state that an item of different density, composition, etc needs to be inserted wherein that would then fall into a different definition of lamination.

Yes, but does it look cool?

I don't think we get to use "looks cool" in any definition. Sorry guys, I have seen far too many segmented pens that I really didn't like but others would think WOW those are really AWESOME. Each of us has a little different outlook and different taste - which is a really good thing or only a couple of us could sell pens (no one would want the others because everyone would want the same ones.)

[:X] Mrs

 

[GaryMGg]

I expect "looks cool" is reserved for the judging.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I think the concept of segmenting differs from laminating only in that segmenting must incorporate two or more different kinds of wood. If you just have one type of wood, it has to be considered laminating...

Segments are, by definition, repeating patterns...so if you have a segmented blank, you have a blank with patterns of differing woods....

At least, that's how I'd define it.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by maxwell_smart007

I think the concept of segmenting differs from laminating only in that segmenting must incorporate two or more different kinds of wood. If you just have one type of wood, it has to be considered laminating...

Segments are, by definition, repeating patterns...so if you have a segmented blank, you have a blank with patterns of differing woods....

At least, that's how I'd define it.

So, if I cut a natural poplar piece in half, at an angle, and insert a quarter inch slice of poplar that has been dyed BLUE, I DON'T have a segmented pen???

But, if the blue slice is OAK, then, it's segmented???[][][]

Did I miss something, or is this what we want to say?????

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Ok, how about we refine the definition to read 'contrasting woods'...then the blue poplar counts!

 

[GaryMGg]

Andrew,

Gotta differ with you on segmentation requiring different woods: I've seen & done segmented pens where the same wood was cut and reglued to form a "brickwork" pattern.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by GaryMGg

Andrew,

Gotta differ with you on segmentation requiring different woods: I've seen & done segmented pens where the same wood was cut and reglued to form a "brickwork" pattern.

There's always ONE guy who will throw a monkeywrench in the gears, just to see what will happen.........


But, I WAS expecting SOMEONE to say this.

So, is his brickwork, just changing the grain pattern or direction, considered SEGMENTING???

Or is he just a "confused pen piece assembler"??

 

[rherrell]

Why don't we just say "one or more glue joints" and leave it at that?

 

[mwenman]

Originally posted by ed4copies

Originally posted by GaryMGg

Andrew,

Gotta differ with you on segmentation requiring different woods: I've seen & done segmented pens where the same wood was cut and reglued to form a "brickwork" pattern.

There's always ONE guy who will throw a monkeywrench in the gears, just to see what will happen.........


But, I WAS expecting SOMEONE to say this.

So, is his brickwork, just changing the grain pattern or direction, considered SEGMENTING???

Or is he just a "confused pen piece assembler"??

I would have to say that his brickwork IS segmenting. There are many different dafynitions around as to what segmenting is and in the one I provided yesterday, segments are sections and it referred to a segmented worm. Now the segmented worm isn't comprised of different materials, contrasting colors etc, but is uniform in composition throughout.

oh goodness. Will we ever figure this out? It being said that if a tree falls in the woods and there is nobody to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound. But I really want to know, is if there is nobody around to hear it, do the other trees laugh at it?

 

[NCWoodworker]

K, so, it seems that we are close to having a definition...how much time do we have left to make a pen for the contest??

Becca...I sent a picture of my entry this morning...just checking that you got it Sorry that I forgot my IAP name in the original...figures I would do that!

Chris

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Just checking the time...

 

[maxwell_smart007]

How about that - I had six minutes left! I could have taken my time!!

 

[wudnhed]

OH you guys have gotten me so confused I think we should just start all over with a whole new batch of pens..............NOT!!!!!!!!

Contest ends in about 4 minutes, no entries after 12:00 noon

 

[skiprat]

Oh boy now I'm confused by the time thing. ( again )
Becca you said we had about 4 minutes and no more after 12 noon
but your post time said 2.55pm AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH[}]

 

[maxwell_smart007]

She's talking Pacific Time...so it ends at 2 Central...well, it's over now anyway!

 

[fernhills]

Oh No No NO,,I didn`t use Bricks..

 

[GaryMGg]

Originally posted by fernhills

Oh No No NO,,I didn`t use Bricks..

That's ok; week 2 is brick & mortar [)]

 

[Chuck Key]

Lets do segmented pens again in week 2 and use the new bullet proof definitation we just came up with in this thread[:0][:0][:0][:0]

Speaking of food for thought lets compare apples and oranges. Oranges have segments I think. Apples can be cut in to segments. What if we put the orange segments back together. Would it still be an orange? What if we combined the apples slices and oranges segments? Segmentation? Would they still be fruit or something else? Just throwing this out. No answers or punch lines necessary.

Chuckie

 

[GaryMGg]

Pics, we need pics! [}] []

 

[gerryr]

Originally posted by maxwell_smart007


Segments are, by definition, repeating patterns

Take a look in RonMc's album. You will see a lot of segmented pens, some of which do not have repeating patterns.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Ok, then - just patterns...

Man, the semantics are draining my will to segment!