microplastics everywhere

[MedWoodWorx]

red on the paper yesterday that doctors found microplastics in human lungs for the first time. then i went to my workshop to check my loofah casting project....are we on the right path working with plastics while on the same time the whole world is on a plastic free direction? are epoxys and other plastics the contemporary asbestos? just thoughts i wanted to share, if someone knows more on this subject i would love to hear him/her, cheers.

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I'm thinking about your question two different ways. First I think just about everything we interact with poses a hazard. Therefore we need to decide if we want to take the risks to use it and if so be careful and take precautions. Second is our environment. We are part of the food chain. Everything we do effects our environment in some way. I think we need to consider what we do and how it effects the environment as well. Don't get me wrong I'm not a radical environmentalist just someone that cares about how things are done. A couple of examples are they said if we stopped using paper grocery bags we would save the trees that plastic ones are better. Now we have plastic that won't decompose for years and now what you've just brought up. They said plastic soda can holders and then plastic straw were killing animals that live in our oceans. I agree these things are having a direct effect but the problem is the way we handle the trash not necessarily what's in the trash. Just my opinion and I hope I'm not way off base from your original question.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

I'm thinking about your question two different ways. First I think just about everything we interact with poses a hazard. Therefore we need to decide if we want to take the risks to use it and if so be careful and take precautions. Second is our environment. We are part of the food chain. Everything we do effects our environment in some way. I think we need to consider what we do and how it effects the environment as well. Don't get me wrong I'm not a radical environmentalist just someone that cares about how things are done. A couple of examples are they said if we stopped using paper grocery bags we would save the trees that plastic ones are better. Now we have plastic that won't decompose for years and now what you've just brought up. They said plastic soda can holders and then plastic straw were killing animals that live in our oceans. I agree these things are having a direct effect but the problem is the way we handle the trash not necessarily what's in the trash. Just my opinion and I hope I'm not way off base from your original question.

I cannot disagree with your points, i have had the same thoughts many times

 

[darrin1200]

I think part of the difference, is also end use.

Most plastics, that everyone screams about, are quick use plastics. Straws, cups, luffa, etc are thrown out after a short time, causing environmental issues. The pens we make are intended to last years if not lifetimes. You, repurposing the luffa into a lifetime product, are actually helping alleviate the problem.

As what @Kenny Durrant says, a lot of things we use in the shop are hazardous to the lungs, in dust/particulate form. The asbestos you refer to, is not harmful sitting on a table in front of you. Even if you break it, its not bad, but the tiny particles (dust) that flies of when you break it, is what gets in your lungs and is harmful.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Woodchipper]

It was shown that the Tennessee River has the highest concentration of microplastics of any river in the world. Why not just ban most plastics? They can be recycled but how many go to the trouble to do this? We have a recycling facility 1.5 miles from the house. There are no easy answers.

 

[grebmar]

I think part of the difference, is also end use.

Most plastics, that everyone screams about, are quick use plastics. Straws, cups, luffa, etc are thrown out after a short time, causing environmental issues. The pens we make are intended to last years if not lifetimes. You, repurposing the luffa into a lifetime product, are actually helping alleviate the problem.

As what @Kenny Durrant says, a lot of things we use in the shop are hazardous to the lungs, in dust/particulate form. The asbestos you refer to, is not harmful sitting on a table in front of you. Even if you break it, its not bad, but the tiny particles (dust) that flies of when you break it, is what gets in your lungs and is harmful.

Just my thoughts.

I've also thought about this lately. Yes, the pen is a durable product, but with all the drilling, turning and sanding, we make a lot of waste and dust--in fact most of the material of the blank is gone by the time we've finished a pen. That is no doubt generating dust and microplastics. I haven't stopped turning plastics yet, but I do think about it sometimes.

 

[1080Wayne]

I suspect that the principal blame for environmental microplastics should be put upon the fashion industry . Take a look at your clothing labels - polyester , nylon , rayon , Spandex , etc , etc . Does your yearly output of drinking straws , coffee cup lids , or grocery bags come close to the amount of plastics you wear ? Clothing by its nature releases small particles into the environment at a rate probably a couple orders of magnitude faster , and much more ubiquitously , than solid plastics .

Unfortunately we cannot undo the damage already done and yet to be done by materials already made . The best we can do is wear and use natural materials - cotton , jute , hemp , wool , fur , etc - wherever we can .

 

[Kenny Durrant]

Thanks for your feedback even though I didn't start this thread. I wonder about this topic and others the older I get and since I'm retired I have a little more time to think. Not to contradict what others have said as I do agree to everything to some degree. If we only use natural materials somewhere land is being cleared to grow those materials and wildlife suffers. Also it was mentioned there's not easy solution. And another thorn in the side is that some other countries are worse than others. I know this is an International site and that wasn't intended to point the finger at another country it's just a problem that global not just local. One last thing. I remember my grandparents and parents talking about the negative change and I didn't quite understand I guess. Now that I do get it that means I'm getting old and turning into my parents. Thanks Again for your comments.

 

[jttheclockman]

As mentioned there are no true answers and at this time seem to be no problem solving going on either. We are a small group when it comes to pen turning and turning plastic pens. It is the products that more people use everyday that are a problem and yes plastic is a problem but we continue to make more and more items from plastic. All bottles are becoming plastic so that is a source of intake as well as food containers and utensils. We are having problems getting rid of plastics even when recycled. I believe we need more technology to use these products instead of making new plastics. In the shop there are many hazards including wood dust and toxic fumes from chemicals. I believe plastics are the asbestos of today. Just as car exhaust and methane gases are the cigarette smoke of yesteryears. With all new technology comes a new set of problems involving waste. Battery operated cars will be a huge problem trying to rid the world of these spent batteries as well as all the tools being used now that are battery operated. Wait till all these solar panels start becoming useless. Not easy to get rid of these type things. Whatever the answers are I will not be around to see them. Let me know how it goes when we meet again.

 

[PatrickR]

To the original post. I wonder how this person was exposed. also how does plastic become micro on a large scale. We all inhale a lot of airborne particles, most the body can handle, process, expell. Some like asbestos, silica etc. it can't, it goes in and stays there forever.

 

[jttheclockman]

To the original post. I wonder how this person was exposed. also how does plastic become micro on a large scale. We all inhale a lot of airborne particles, most the body can handle, process, expell. Some like asbestos, silica etc. it can't, it goes in and stays there forever.

From what I read they found it in the blood.

 

[Painfullyslow]

Before retirement I ran manufacturing businesses. All I can say is that on a global scale if you were to take every pen turner in the world and add up all of the waste (plastic or otherwise), it wouldn't even register in the 0.000001 percentile.

As for the health concerns to each of us, well that I believe is quite real. There is a thread about PPE going around where I asked about safety for us in our shops. All I can suggest is that each of us takes the health risks seriously and wears the appropriate safety gear to ensure that we can keep making pens for a long, long time =)

 

[PatrickR]

From what I read they found it in the blood.

Interesting. The OP specified lungs.

 

[jrista]

My question is: IS the rest of the world really moving away from plastics? I don't think it is... As 1080Wayne said, plastics or resins of some kind are all over, in things we don't normally think of having plastics or resins. Our clothing, for one.

Makeup products now have a lot of microplastic particles in them, and are a huge source of the problem of microplastics finding their way into water supplies...the tiny little plastic beads in makeup get washed off and flow right through our water systems back into rivers, lakes and oceans.

Another use case for microplastics like that has been lubricants. The goal was to "take used plastics out of the environment" so they couldn't do harm...so recycled plastics were broken down into tiny particles to be used as additives to certain kinds of libricants and the like. This was really worse than melting down used plastics and reusing them for macro-scale things, because microplastic particles find their way much deeper into the environment than macro plastics can.

I don't see the world overall backing off of using plastics. I think there has been an outcry TO back off using plastics, rightfully so given the issue of plastics polluting our environment and the damage they can do. In actual fact, we seem to be making using ever more plastics, and seem to be making dumber decisions these days as to how and where we use plastics, and a lot of the time those decisions end up making the problem much worse. They find microplasics, especially the tiny round granule types used in makeups and lubricants, in fish and other small creatures.

I suspect I have plastic in my blood. CA fumes instantly particalize when they come into contact with moisture...such as in our lungs. I started turning in 2020 during the lockdowns...it was months and months before I was able to get a decent respirator. I was using what was called an N95 mask with exhaust ports that took me about a month and a half to get ahold of (I literally started turning in March 2020). I was naive when I started, and did not realize what CA fumes or dust could do. I had some major health issues in 2020 that I eventually traced back to CA fumes in particular, and dust. I thoroughly protect myself these days, but...I am quite sure that when I was being exposed to CA fumes, I was getting plastic particles in my lungs, and according to the article on the plastics found in blood, small enough particles seem to readily pass through the lungs into the bloodstream. With other particles, such as say metals, we have processes like chelation that can help bond to and flush out metals from our bodies... With plastics, how the heck would we filter them out? They are generally inert polymers...they don't readily bond with things when in a solid state...

 

[jttheclockman]

Interesting. The OP specified lungs.

Maybe a different case. No matter it is not good.

 

[jttheclockman]

Heck just look at what your house is made of. The trades at one time were just concerned with wood dust and then formaldehyde and other ingredients with the use of rot resistant woods and now wood is being made from combination of plastics and some all plastic. The furniture and carpets. The finishes being used including paints. Just bring this up because we breathe this stuff everyday. we just fine new ways to kill ourselves.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Heck just look at what your house is made of. The trades at one time were just concerned with wood dust and then formaldehyde and other ingredients with the use of rot resistant woods and now wood is being made from combination of plastics and some all plastic. The furniture and carpets. The finishes being used including paints. Just bring this up because we breathe this stuff everyday. we just fine new ways to kill ourselves.

I totally agree with you ( actually all of you). But what if we, as consumers , started to avoid plastics wouldn't the industry comply sooner or later? This issue is political to some extent, ecological and social. Isn't there an alternative to epoxy?

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I see we are all pretty much thinking along the same lines. Personally I don't see any change in using plastics or handling other wastes myself. I think the first thing we,United States anyway, need are people to get along and make better decisions in our government. They need to do what's best for the environment not the businesses or people that support them. That's not a stab on politics just the truth. I ran asphalt plants when I was working and they had their problems. Things were in place to keep them as environmentally safe as possible. We can't just shut things down because there are issues. Plastics are here to stay so "We" need to get better at handling them.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

i don't have anything smart to say that you guys didn't mention already. All i know is that i need about 120-130 ml of resin/hardener mix to cast a blank and after trimming and turning, i am left with 20-30 ml of epoxy. i don't want my hobby to create more waste ( i do realise that the carbon footprint is already huge since i buy parts and tools from all over the world); ok plastics are here to stay but i feel that i should use them ONLY when needed.

Microplastics found deep in lungs of living people for first time

Particles discovered in tissue of 11 out of 13 patients undergoing surgery, with polypropylene and PET most common

www.theguardian.com

 

[MedWoodWorx]

I think part of the difference, is also end use.

Most plastics, that everyone screams about, are quick use plastics. Straws, cups, luffa, etc are thrown out after a short time, causing environmental issues. The pens we make are intended to last years if not lifetimes. You, repurposing the luffa into a lifetime product, are actually helping alleviate the problem.

actually i dyed a piece of natural loofah and casted it in resin to make a pen blank ... yes the pen is gonna last for many years but the waste that i will produce when turning??

 

[jrista]

i don't have anything smart to say that you guys didn't mention already. All i know is that i need about 120-130 ml of resin/hardener mix to cast a blank and after trimming and turning, i am left with 20-30 ml of epoxy. i don't want my hobby to create more waste ( i do realise that the carbon footprint is already huge since i buy parts and tools from all over the world); ok plastics are here to stay but i feel that i should use them ONLY when needed.

Microplastics found deep in lungs of living people for first time

Particles discovered in tissue of 11 out of 13 patients undergoing surgery, with polypropylene and PET most common

www.theguardian.com

Personally, I'm not concerned about carbon footprint. I've always found the notion that carbon is a "pollutant" to be utterly ludicrous, as it is a fundamental byproduct of life! The more life on the planet, the more carbon output there is. That is not, imo, a problem, more CO2 is well documented to lead to more green carbon-consuming life (including trees! our bread and butter!), etc. etc. Beyond that...well, that subject is a monster can of worms, so I won't say anything more.

As far as the resin, once it is hardened, it is not really a problem either. I've ordered a few things from a few places that seem to cast their left-over resins into little objects, and include those objects for free in orders. At least then, there is something semi-useful from it. You could say potentially use that remnant resin to create small blanks for small keychains or something.

The one problem I do see with resins, is the dust from cutting it, turning it, etc. The dust is a microplastic, and that is the stuff that can get deeper into the environment (and, apparently, us). Good dust collection, with the right kind and size of ducting, with the right horsepower to make sure you are actually collecting all the FINE dust (which is the hardest part of building a proper DC system...ironically, the larger dust, chips, etc. are actually easier than fine dust), is probably the best thing you can do to minimize your microplastics footprint, which IMO is a vastly greater concern than carbon footprint.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

I was looking for epoxy resin alternatives and i found these so called bio epoxies. Does anyone has any experience with such materials?cheers

Home

Biobased epoxies by Entropy Resins aren't just made better – they're made responsibly. Learn about our sustainable biobased epoxy resins.

entropyresins.com

 

[jrista]

I was looking for epoxy resin alternatives and i found these so called bio epoxies. Does anyone has any experience with such materials?cheers

Home

Biobased epoxies by Entropy Resins aren't just made better – they're made responsibly. Learn about our sustainable biobased epoxy resins.

entropyresins.com

I looked at entropy resins summer last year. I was pretty interested at first...then I saw the cost. $90 for a mere 48oz of the casting resin, and nearly $330 for a 3 gallon kit. Alumilite is not exactly cheap, but its about half the cost of this stuff. I'd be interested if it was competitively priced...

 

[McKenzie Penworks]

While we're talking lungs... Folks should probably read the data sheet on the side B of Alumilite Clear (Same chemical for Clear Slow fyi) and various epoxies. No VOC doesn't mean safe to breath. There are some nasty chemicals in those and if you're not wearing a respirator that's geared towards filtering out chemicals and gases, you're going to be breathing in those things every time you cast. Particulate only respirators aren't helpful for those situations. Sure, they're OK for turning and keeping the dust out but long term exposure to some of the things in resin is no bueno. I see people casting in their kitchens, etc... and that's just insanity. Just because it's easy to work with doesn't mean you want to be doing this inside your house.