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mredburn

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What will we decide on someone who cuts or picks up their own wood burls or crotch or cuts it from a board or uses cabinet shop cut offs. Those dont have a cost to the member. And we jut had a thread that stated that if the fit and finish were not insulting they chose the one that they would put in their pocket even if it didnt match the criteria of the judging.
 
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mbroberg

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I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. I never intended this thread to be a "create the contest rules" thread, I intended it to be a "what contests do we want to have" thread. Maybe presenting it the way I did, with the attached list of previous contests confused things. That was only intended to provide ideas. What I am trying to lock down here, at this point, is something like the following:

During the 2015 Birthday Bash we want to offer:

1. - A contest designed to be attractive to the novice penturner. We seem to agree that at bare minimum this will involve an unmodified pen kit.

2. - A contest designed to be attractive to an "intermediate" penturner. Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

3. - A contest designed to be attractive to an "advanced" penturner that doesn't involve the use of specialized tools (CNC, Laser, Ornimental lathe, etc.). Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

4. - A Freestyle Contest where the minimum requirement is that the end result does not have to be immediately recognizable as a pen but it must be a functional pen.

5 - Antler, Horn, Bone Contest. minimum requirement(s): must use an antler, horn or bone.

6. - Youth Contest(s) One or two? (remember, 14 - 16 could compete in any of the other contests.) Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

7. - Photo Contest(s) Type(s) and Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

8. - Casting Contest(s) Types and Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

9. - Segmenting Contest: Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

10 - Ugly Pen Contest: Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

OTHER ACTIVITIES:

Donation Drawing
Auctions
Trivia
Match the Shop
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

At this early stage of the planning lets try not to get hung up on what the rules to the contests will be. Lets just determine what the contests will be. Once that is done we can solicit volunteers to run the contests, those volunteers can prepare rules within the guidelines we give them.

In broad terms please create a list of 10 - 12 contests that you feel are essential. Also provide a list of the peripheral activities that you believe we should offer. We will worry about the specific rules once we know what the contests will be.
 

Edgar

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I'm good with that list - I would suggest just one youth contest, 2 casting contests + a poly clay contest. One, two or three photo contests - I don't have strong feelings here except to suggest that we shelve the creative mug contest for a year or two.
 

Dale Lynch

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1.comercial kit and blank under $25
2.comercial kit and custom blank seg
3.comercial kit and custom blank cast
4.comercial kit and custom blank antler horn bone
5.modified comercial kit and custom or comercial blank
6 kitless challenge
7. freestyle
8 youth under 14 comercial kit and blank
9 youth 14-18 comercial kit and blank
10.ugky not gross contest
11.senior citizen comercial kit minor mod comercial or custom blank
 

Joe S.

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1.) Beginer Contest
2.) Intermediate Contest
3.) Advanced contest
4.) Freestyle contest
5.) Segmenting contest
6.) Color casting contest
7.) Embed/tube-on casting contest
8.) Pen photography contest
9.) Youth Contest
10.) Bullet casing contest
11.) Antler/bone contest

Daily trivia
Liar contest
Wood ID contest
Puzzles
Auctions
Handwriting contest(?)
 

Cmiles1985

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I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. I never intended this thread to be a "create the contest rules" thread, I intended it to be a "what contests do we want to have" thread. Maybe presenting it the way I did, with the attached list of previous contests confused things. That was only intended to provide ideas. What I am trying to lock down here, at this point, is something like the following:

During the 2015 Birthday Bash we want to offer:

1. - A contest designed to be attractive to the novice penturner. We seem to agree that at bare minimum this will involve an unmodified pen kit.

2. - A contest designed to be attractive to an "intermediate" penturner. Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

3. - A contest designed to be attractive to an "advanced" penturner that doesn't involve the use of specialized tools (CNC, Laser, Ornimental lathe, etc.). Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

4. - A Freestyle Contest where the minimum requirement is that the end result does not have to be immediately recognizable as a pen but it must be a functional pen.

5 - Antler, Horn, Bone Contest. minimum requirement(s): must use an antler, horn or bone.

6. - Youth Contest(s) One or two? (remember, 14 - 16 could compete in any of the other contests.) Minimum requirement(s) TBD. I think one youth contest (<14) would be good. As you said, 14-16 can enter regular contests

7. - Photo Contest(s) Type(s) and Minimum requirement(s) TBD. i agree with Edgar to shelve the mugshot contest. I personally enjoyed the shoplife category last year. Since this is a site related to pen making, selling and using, how about a respective contest for each of those.
1: Shop Life
2: Pen Marketing (cannot use same pen entered in another competition), and
3: Where the nib meets the paper - pictures of writing, nib flex, etc.


8. - Casting Contest(s) Types and Minimum requirement(s) TBD.I like the idea of two here. Color and embedded/tube on

9. - Segmenting Contest: Minimum requirement(s) TBD.could we do a "Handmade Blank Contest?" It would include polymer clay and segmented pens or any other medium that involved work with the hands on a solid blank (read: not just a cast blank)

10 - Ugly Pen Contest: Minimum requirement(s) TBD.I don't have thoughts either way here

OTHER ACTIVITIES:

Donation DrawingI think this one is good!
Auctions
Trivia
Match the ShopNot sure what to think about this one. What other options could we come up with?
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

At this early stage of the planning lets try not to get hung up on what the rules to the contests will be. Lets just determine what the contests will be. Once that is done we can solicit volunteers to run the contests, those volunteers can prepare rules within the guidelines we give them.

In broad terms please create a list of 10 - 12 contests that you feel are essential. Also provide a list of the peripheral activities that you believe we should offer. We will worry about the specific rules once we know what the contests will be.

Comments in blue. As for contests, I like the thought of a match the pen and maker or match the blank and maker. Instead of doing a daily contest (like Wood ID), could we rotate through a couple or three contests throughout the month? Example: MWFSat-Wood ID, Tues/Thurs/Sun-match the pen/blank and maker. If I'm out of line or being dumb, don't be afraid to smack me down :)
 

mbroberg

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I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. I never intended this thread to be a "create the contest rules" thread, I intended it to be a "what contests do we want to have" thread. Maybe presenting it the way I did, with the attached list of previous contests confused things. That was only intended to provide ideas. What I am trying to lock down here, at this point, is something like the following:

During the 2015 Birthday Bash we want to offer:

1. - A contest designed to be attractive to the novice penturner. We seem to agree that at bare minimum this will involve an unmodified pen kit.

2. - A contest designed to be attractive to an "intermediate" penturner. Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

3. - A contest designed to be attractive to an "advanced" penturner that doesn't involve the use of specialized tools (CNC, Laser, Ornimental lathe, etc.). Minimum requirement(s) TBD.

4. - A Freestyle Contest where the minimum requirement is that the end result does not have to be immediately recognizable as a pen but it must be a functional pen.

5 - Antler, Horn, Bone Contest. minimum requirement(s): must use an antler, horn or bone.

6. - Youth Contest(s) One or two? (remember, 14 - 16 could compete in any of the other contests.) Minimum requirement(s) TBD. I think one youth contest (<14) would be good. As you said, 14-16 can enter regular contests

7. - Photo Contest(s) Type(s) and Minimum requirement(s) TBD. i agree with Edgar to shelve the mugshot contest. I personally enjoyed the shoplife category last year. Since this is a site related to pen making, selling and using, how about a respective contest for each of those.
1: Shop Life
2: Pen Marketing (cannot use same pen entered in another competition), and
3: Where the nib meets the paper - pictures of writing, nib flex, etc.


8. - Casting Contest(s) Types and Minimum requirement(s) TBD.I like the idea of two here. Color and embedded/tube on

9. - Segmenting Contest: Minimum requirement(s) TBD.could we do a "Handmade Blank Contest?" It would include polymer clay and segmented pens or any other medium that involved work with the hands on a solid blank (read: not just a cast blank)

10 - Ugly Pen Contest: Minimum requirement(s) TBD.I don't have thoughts either way here

OTHER ACTIVITIES:

Donation DrawingI think this one is good!
Auctions
Trivia
Match the ShopNot sure what to think about this one. What other options could we come up with?
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

At this early stage of the planning lets try not to get hung up on what the rules to the contests will be. Lets just determine what the contests will be. Once that is done we can solicit volunteers to run the contests, those volunteers can prepare rules within the guidelines we give them.

In broad terms please create a list of 10 - 12 contests that you feel are essential. Also provide a list of the peripheral activities that you believe we should offer. We will worry about the specific rules once we know what the contests will be.

Comments in blue. As for contests, I like the thought of a match the pen and maker or match the blank and maker. Instead of doing a daily contest (like Wood ID), could we rotate through a couple or three contests throughout the month? Example: MWFSat-Wood ID, Tues/Thurs/Sun-match the pen/blank and maker. If I'm out of line or being dumb, don't be afraid to smack me down :)

I don't think anyone has ever suggested or considered running several daily contests, each one week in duration, before. Doing so may make it easier on the people running those contests. It is not easy to come up with 28 trivia questions, 28 pictures of wood, etc. This is worth further discussion.
 

jeff

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Have we ever considered a pay-for-entry contest with a significant prize? Way back in 2005 I think, we had a collaborative contest with Woodturning Design Magazine. I THINK there was an entry fee, but I could be mistaken. I've noticed that some other sites I cruise now and then (WoodCentral, for one) have some contests with entry fees.

Just a thought. I know there is a lot wrong with it.

It would be nice to have one contest every year that is new and different, and that will generate lots of interest.
 

Cmiles1985

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Have we ever considered a pay-for-entry contest with a significant prize? Way back in 2005 I think, we had a collaborative contest with Woodturning Design Magazine. I THINK there was an entry fee, but I could be mistaken. I've noticed that some other sites I cruise now and then (WoodCentral, for one) have some contests with entry fees.

Just a thought. I know there is a lot wrong with it.

It would be nice to have one contest every year that is new and different, and that will generate lots of interest.

I am liking this idea. Instead of "just another pen contest," how about themed on making something related as in pen storage/transportation/display? Since protecting and displaying our work is a major portion of pen making and selling, it could be worthwhile. Again, that's just one of my dummy thoughts kicking in.
 

Dale Lynch

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It's a good thought.I bet you'd probably only get the best makers willing to back up their work with a cash entry.Could really show off what some from the IAP can do if you could get them to go for it.
 

mbroberg

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Or will we have the Gisi brothers swoop in and take the prize money? Do we care if they do?
 

Cmiles1985

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Or will we have the Gisi brothers swoop in and take the prize money? Do we care if they do?

That was my first thought, and exactly why I suggested something other than a pen. I have nothing against them, and I personally love their work, but I agree that they would almost be guaranteed the win.
 

mbroberg

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Whining - yes, but I think the major rub was that they are not active in this community but showed up for the contest and easily won. Then they disappeared again.
 

Ed McDonnell

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Personally, I would love the chance to compete against Gisi (Father and / or Son) and all of the other incredibly talented pen makers out there. Maybe I would have no chance of winning, but it would force me to try and get to a new level.

However, given the way the community reacted to the "best of IAP" results, I am not sure IAP is ready for this kind of a competition during the Bash.

Ed
 

mredburn

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Back to the list, If your going to limit the pen contests to 10 I dont think that the either the youth or the ugly pen contest should be included in that 10 but moved to extra activities.
Our 10 core contests should be about pen making skills. If you need to drop another casting drop color or just wrap it all up into one casting contest. The horn and bone was a hit but we do have a casing contest later on in the year. It may not need to be included in the bash. A lot of the bone and horn used casings anyway.

Im not sure that the library articles are written by the members with the thought of winning a contest. Im sure they would still write them anyway, whether they won something later in the bash or not. Nor is the Featured Photo a contest you enter. As we try and define a beginner contest in any fashion, the slimline contests in the summer contest and in the Russ Fairfield were poplular there is no reason to not have a slimline unlimited contest.

Are we going to limit the activities outside the skilled pen ones as well?

1-basic pen contest- for the turning challenged
2-horn and antler etc
3-casting -all in one
4-semi modified ball point
5-roller ball fountain pen
6 segmented pen
7 kitless
8 freestyle -a non pen, pen
9 slimline style only- only limit, no cnc

Other activities
Youth
ugly
Puzzles
weekly contests trivia/wood /match up etc
photo -prettiest pen photo
photo -shop
Library article -Certificate only for a prize

The Donation Drawing by Jeff and the Auctions are outside our control. We dont really need to concern ourselves with them.
 
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mbroberg

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If we slide a few north of 10 it will be alright.

I've handled the Featured Pen Contest since I've been here. I don't like it as a contest. The biggest thing I don't like about it is that it APPEARS that Jeff hand picks the entrants. I know full well that Jeff has an established set of criteria he uses to choose front page photos, and I know that when he picks them he is not doing so with the Featured Pen Contest in mind. Still, the fact is, people do not enter that contest, Jeff places them in that contest.
 

Edgar

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I like the idea of a core set of contests aimed at quality pen making and lumping everything else into the other activities category.

I also like the idea of having just one contest specifically for a pen that made with a personally cast blank. One of the problems I had with all the individual casting contests last year was that they weren't just casting contests - the entrant also had to make a pen with those blanks, so that made it a combination of casting skill, pen making skill & nice looking kit. That being the case it seems better to have a single such pen making contest with an element that the entrant must use his own cast blank & leave it up to him to decide whether to use embedded, tube-on, color or whatever -- may the best pen & WOW win.

I've also been mulling the issue of polyclay blanks a bit. I'm beginning to come down on the side of these blanks having a place in the freestyle or perhaps being allowed in one of the contests aimed at the more advanced turners but not being allowed in the casting category or even having their own special category. They do make beautiful pens and we have some extremely gifted polyclay artists in IAP, but often there is no turning involved at all with these blanks. Of course someone could make a thinner polyclay blank, then cast it in clear resin or epoxy and turn that which would make it a combination of polyclay & embedded cast - I would have no problem with that.
 

mredburn

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As I review my list trying to justify the contests or at least qualify them I keep thinking the modified ball point is pointless and should be dropped. I like the modified slimline contests results we have had both from the Fairfield Bash contests and the one in the Extravaganza. I think its popular with the members and should be kept in one form or the other. You have a lot of members getting into kitless as well as the ones already there, and a lot of members that are casting their own blanks. THere are not as many clay blank makers and they can enter their blanks in almost any of the competitions they want to make a pen in.
I think I will revise my list to

1-basic pen -for the turning challenged
2-Horn and antler
3-casting. all in one.
4-Roller ball/ fountain pen kit
5-Segmented pen
6-kitless - any technique standard pen design
7-freestyle - non pen looking pen
8-slim line - no cnc

add to that the rest of my original list, Youth, Ugly, Puzzles, etc.
 

jeff

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If we slide a few north of 10 it will be alright.

I've handled the Featured Pen Contest since I've been here. I don't like it as a contest. The biggest thing I don't like about it is that it APPEARS that Jeff hand picks the entrants. I know full well that Jeff has an established set of criteria he uses to choose front page photos, and I know that when he picks them he is not doing so with the Featured Pen Contest in mind. Still, the fact is, people do not enter that contest, Jeff places them in that contest.

You are 100% correct on all points, and I agree that it's not a particularly good contest (or is it more accurately a competition...) I do hand pick the featured pens. I have a loose set of criteria, but it's in no way meant to be "fair".

My vote would be to retire the contest.
 

lyonsacc

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Mike,

I like your latest list. I have one item to think about. I thinkthere are a number of us (I am just guessing) that don't yet do kitless pens,but can do what I would call a more highly modified kit (double closed end is agood example). I am selfishly speaking here for myself, but that type ofcontest would probably be the one I would most likely want to enter since itwould push my skill set in a way that I would like to go. With that beingsaid, this may already fit into what you had in mind for one of the listedcontests.

Sorry I haven't commented previously. My brain has been a bitpreoccupied with family and work stuff.

Thanks,
Dave
 

Ed McDonnell

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As I review my list trying to justify the contests or at least qualify them I keep thinking the modified ball point is pointless and should be dropped. I like the modified slimline contests results we have had both from the Fairfield Bash contests and the one in the Extravaganza. I think its popular with the members and should be kept in one form or the other. You have a lot of members getting into kitless as well as the ones already there, and a lot of members that are casting their own blanks. THere are not as many clay blank makers and they can enter their blanks in almost any of the competitions they want to make a pen in.
I think I will revise my list to

1-basic pen -for the turning challenged
2-Horn and antler
3-casting. all in one.
4-Roller ball/ fountain pen kit
5-Segmented pen
6-kitless - any technique standard pen design
7-freestyle - non pen looking pen
8-slim line - no cnc

add to that the rest of my original list, Youth, Ugly, Puzzles, etc.

Hi Mike - Your list looks pretty good, but I have one question and one comment.

Question: Is #8 a "modified" slimline contest. I think that's what you meant based on your comments, but I'm not sure. I think it should be "modified".

Comment: Maybe instead of a "freestyle (non pen)" and "kitless", we could have two freestyle competitions. One for pens that look like pens and one for pens that don't look like pens. If someone thinks their modified kit pen can compete with the kitless, why shouldn't we let them have a go at it? If a kitless pen maker is afraid they can't compete with a modified kit, then maybe they need to step up their game. Just my point of view.

Ed
 

mredburn

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Yes on the slimline contest. Its meant to be a modified contest rather than the traditonal kit. Maybe the requirement might be use the nib. or must use 7mm tubes or has to use a 7mm tranny the idea is to have a highly modified slim Line. The rollerball/ fountain pen contest rules could be written to allow closed end pens easier ithink than trying to write rules to allow the kit parts in the kitless.
 

mredburn

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I was also thinking a themed challenge contest might go over well. I know you want to post all the rules in advance but I think of all the shows on tv where they compete under a time limit without knowing what they have to work with until the show starts for that episode. Some of the cooking shows or face off, tatto type shows. Is there room for a pen making contest where you have 10 days to 2 weeks to make a pen. give them a style- pick a material they must use and gitter done.

Say a cigar with Oak or pine maybe a mostly blue blank.
 

Edgar

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Here's my list incorporating Mike's & Ed's latest suggestions for pen competitions

1-basic pen -for the turning challenged
2-Horn and antler
3-casting. all in one.
4-Roller ball/ fountain pen kit
5-Segmented pen
6-freestyle - must look like a pen
7-freestyle - non pen looking pen
8-slim line challenge - no cnc, laser or metal lathes

As Ed suggested, anything would be allowed for #6 - modified, kitless, metal lathe, cnc, laser, etc as long as the end result looks like a pen

Edgar
 

Edgar

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A theme challenge might be fun. If we do something like this, I would suggest that we hold at the end of the month - after the deadline for all other entries.

We could list the contest with all the others & the chair could post some teasers hinting at the theme throughout the month, then kick it off about Feb 19 or 20. It could be the GITERDONE contest.
 

Ed McDonnell

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...The rollerball/ fountain pen contest rules could be written to allow closed end pens easier ithink than trying to write rules to allow the kit parts in the kitless.

If we did a "free-style - looks like a pen" instead of kitless you wouldn't need rules (other than it has to look like pen), so it might actually be easier to write the rules. :biggrin: People do whatever they want. Let the voters sort it out.

Ed
 

mredburn

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If we start it too late it will run into March with voting. That also holds up Prize awards. IF any of the prizes are from a bulk donation, Like alumilite kits or glue packages, That holds up all the other winners of that prize from a single vendor. Vendors that donate multiple prize packages want the winners list all at once not a couple here and there.
 

mredburn

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Febuary 1st is a Sunday, Monday evening the 16th to Wednesday the 18th would be a good cut off dates for most of the contests. You could announce the Gitter- Done Contest Friday the 6th and close it the 16th and procede with voting. There are a lot of members that can only work on a pen on weekends and some of those poor unfortunate souls live in a northern climate that has real winters. Not like SW FLorida where it drops into the low 60s for a week or two.
 

Edgar

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I agree that it would need to finish by the end of the month. I was kinda thinking generally of something like a kickoff on Feb 19, Entry deadline of Feb 25, 2 days of voting & announce winners on the 28th.

It could be started a little earlier to allow more time, but a tight schedule is part of the fun & appeal of a giterdone contest.
 

mredburn

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A one week event? It could work. You need to give the contest chair a days time to get the poll posted in case he isnt glued to the computer when the contest ends. The 16th to the 23rd is Monday to Monday Starts when the others are ending and gives them the week to get stuff together and a plan and the weekend to make it. Plenty of room for voting.
 

Edgar

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A one week event? It could work. You need to give the contest chair a days time to get the poll posted in case he isnt glued to the computer when the contest ends. The 16th to the 23rd is Monday to Monday Starts when the others are ending and gives them the week to get stuff together and a plan and the weekend to make it. Plenty of room for voting.

Sounds good to me - I would even volunteer to run this one if we add it to the list.

Edgar
 

Cmiles1985

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I'm liking the sound of the "Git-R-Done" contest. I have some thoughts, but I haven't figured out how to get them to the keyboard so that they make sense.
 

mbroberg

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Ok Guys,

After reading and considering all the varying opinions and comments thus far I am going with this list of activities. Stay Calm and Don't Panic! Changes CAN be made down the road if warranted. I want to start getting chair people selected to start planning their rules. Individuals who chaired the similar contest in the past will have the first right of refusal to chair the current contest. I've even plugged in the POTENTIAL contest chairs. Please let me know if you do or do not want to chair a contest this year. (I'll PM anyone who is not part of this group) If your name is not on the list as a chair don't worry, We still need people to do a variety of other things including, and most importantly, making sure winners get their prizes in a timely manner. That has always been an area that needs to be closely monitored.
 

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