Contest and Events

[mbroberg]

The contest and events to be conducted during BASH 11.

 

[mbroberg]

Lets start the discussion on this. Do we want to pare down the contests? If so, how many? Some of the things I have listed on the attachment were contests from days of yore. Do we want to resurrect any of them? We need to talk about sponsorships also. I cannot really say that sponsorships have resulted in higher value prize packages when compared to prizes awarded prior to sponsorship. They do take a little of the load off of the prize people.

 

[mmyshrall]

Lets start the discussion on this. Do we want to pare down the contests? If so, how many? Some of the things I have listed on the attachment were contests from days of yore. Do we want to resurrect any of them? We need to talk about sponsorships also. I cannot really say that sponsorships have resulted in higher value prize packages when compared to prizes awarded prior to sponsorship. They do take a little of the load off of the prize people.

Mike,

If we take the list as is and exclude the auction (I don't really consider that to be a contest), we have 20 contests that need chairs, prizes, and entrants. While I am not sure I agree with Jeff about trimming the number down, I know last year I was a bit intmidated by the number of contests. That would have been alleviated by more advanced notice of the BASH and the possibilities. I joined in November, 2013 and it seemed that the next thing I knew, all of this BASH activity appeared out of nowhere just a few months later.

I am in agreement with Jeff about considering dropping the edible pen contest and perhaps retiring the Russ Fairfield slimline contest. I haven't had time to really examine the number of participants in each contest to see if that might influence my initial thoughts.

I agree with the re-branding of the beginner/intermediate/advanced pen contests. I seem to remember some interesting discussions about how to go about assessing which category your pen truly belonged into. I think that this would neatly tie up those loose ends.

I can't say I was that thrilled about the match the shop contest. I felt that a dartboard and the photos would have gotten me better results.

The daily trivia/wood ID contests always left me a little frustrated. Both seemed skewed toward those who happened to be fortunate enought to be on the forum when the newest item was released. I don't have any great ideas on resolving this, however.

As far as sponserships, I will defer to those who have had more experience in the BASH management but I sensed that there is a bit of confusion about getting the prizes into the hands of the winners.

I will be reviewing the other items you have posted and will respond to those in the next few days.

I also feel woefully inadequate in the shameless promotion department, I will be asking from lessons from the master.... (you know who you are... :biggrin

Thanks,
Michael

 

[mredburn]

Last year the antler,horn and bone proved popular. We may want to introduce a bullet pen contest. These contests may appeal to a larger audience that dont make kitless pens or feel they cant compete in those contests.

THe Beginers contest has always had a problem with defining a true beginner. No matter where you draw the line someone had an advantage. It does however have appeal to those that think of themselves as beginners. We could always discourage cheating by limiting prizes to minimum amounts and a Certificate.

Other than that Kitless, Modified kit and Ball point Kit pen work. We could choose different Kits each year for the Modified Kit contest.


THe casting contests are fine the way they are.

Russ Fairfield is a very well attended contest

the collaborative contest last year seemed to need a lot of extra effort to manage.

The Free Style is fine the way it is.


I like the Idea of a segmenting contest but will you define the pen style or kit that must be used? Other than that a lot of the entries into the other contest utilize segmenting. Have to segment a sierra style pen or other style might prove interesting. Stamp/ decal kind of comes under the casting contests already.


I think the puzzles were very well liked and fun but We need to have a back up plan if Curtis gets obligated elsewhere.

Im not in favor of the ugliest pen unless you stipulate no Feces, throw up, or other body fluids or discharges can be used.


There is a danger that the trash talk like the ugliest pen contest could get really ugly.

The pen and turner contest sounds interesting.

I think rotating some of the non pen making contests in and out keeps them from getting stale. Wood Id, match the shop, etc.

 

[mredburn]

Did I miss a conversation or input from Jeff?

 

[mredburn]

Are we looking at reducing the scope of the contests?

 

[Displaced Canadian]

Jeff's thoughts on the subject are in the Thoughts from bash 10 thread.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I agree the edible pen contest has to go. It started well but has turned a little too pro.
I liked the freestyle as it was, it gives people a chance to show off more than just their pen making skills.
With the ugly pen contest the last time it kinda wandered off into a strange place. The accidently ugly pen part was great. With careful rule writing it could make a comeback.
Pen and turner contest sounds fun. We do hear people say that they can identify a maker by looking at their work.
Segmenting contest should be done with all entrants using the same style of kit.
Prize disbursement, it might be a good idea to have a point man for each vendor.

 

[mbroberg]

If you could whittle the contests down to 10, which 10 would they be. Here is what my list looks like but I sort of cheated because I tacked some activities on the end that I'm not considering actual "contests" but do give everyone something to look forward to daily.

 

[mredburn]

Here are my thoughts after reading Jeff suggestions.
1-Freestyle
2-Kitless - any pen style
3-Kit - Roller ball/Fountain minimum modifications
4-Ball Point -pick a different style pen each year or tube size.
5-Slim line
6-Antler horn bone
7-Casting 1 - color only
8-Casting 2 - tube on, Embedded, Stamp, decal,
9-Segmented

Those could be your core skilled pen making contests.

Fun contests -
youth pen contest (Edited in)
Photo/ contests
Ugly pen/trash talk
Puzzles - crossword / jigsaw
Trivia
match up- whether its shops/turner or pen/turner

Additional Activities

Featured pen - certificate and Iap merchandise prize- winner only
Library article -certificate and IAP merchandise Prize -winner only
(IAP Merchandise being a hat or pin or patch.)

Donation Drawing
Auction

THe drawing and auction are outside our control for the most part.
Giving certificates and Iap merchandize limits the prizes needed and doesnt deplete or dilute the prize pool.

 

[mmyshrall]

After looking at the list, I have a couple of thoughts:

1) I suggest removal the "Beautiful"/"Stunning" adjectives from the fountain/rollerball and ballpoint kit contests. I have noticed that folks on the IAP tend to be a bit modest about their abilities and I wonder if those words might intimidate some people from entering. I know that this is a bit nit picky at the moment, but it is early in the process.

2) I like the idea of rotating the casting contests each year.

3) Would the stamp/decal contest also allow for paper (i.e. Chiyogami) and/or polymer clay? Should that contest be expanded a bit with a name change to encourage more participation?

4) How about rotating the Wood ID contest and the Pen/Turners match up contest each BASH?

 

[mredburn]

The fun activities or those other than pen making help keep members involved that may not want to compete in the pen making competitions. They are just as important to the bash as the core pen making competitions.

 

[mmyshrall]

So, let's take Mike's contest list of 9 and move the ugly pen contest into the group to get an even 10. The second casting contest addresses my question about paper/clay.

 

[Edgar]

I compiled a quick spreadsheet to see how many entries we had in each contest last year:

Contest ----------------------------- #Entries
Beautiful Pen Contests
Youth Beautiful Pen - Under 14 --------13
Youth Beautiful Pen - 14-16 -------------9
Beginner Beautiful Pen -----------------36
Intermediate Beautiful Pen -------------37
Advanced Beautiful Pen -----------------20

Photo Contests
Pen Marketing Photo -------------------- 22
No Rules ----------------------------------19
Shop Life ----------------------------------25
Creative Mug ------------------------------11

Misc Pen Competitions
Edible Pen ----------------------------------7
Modified Pen -------------------------------7
Freestyle Pen ----------------------------- 11
Russ Fairfield Slimlines -------------------32
Antler, Horn, Bone ------------------------17

Casting Contests
Color Casting ------------------------------ 9
Embedded Casting ------------------------11
Tube On Casting -------------------------- 18

Misc Contests
Wood Identification
Daily Trivia
Almost Daily Puzzle
Best Library Article
Collaborative Challenge
Featured Pen


If I didn't miss any, we had 17 competitive events plus the 6 misc contests. It was my first BASH, so I don't have the advantage of history that most of you do, but I think that 12-15 contests might be a little more manageable & I think there are a few too many sub-categories. Here's my general thoughts:

"Beatiful Pen Contests"
1. Some other category title might be better.
2. Have just one youth category - max age 16 by the start of BASH on Feb 1 - full disclosure for any help by an adult. Maybe award 5 prizes.
3. Drop the Beginner Category - just an "Intermediate" & "Advanced" category - minimal or no mods in the first, anything goes in the latter - perhaps limit one to ballpoints & the other to RB/FP
4. Probably a different name for the contests other than Intermediate & Advanced

"Photo Contests"
1. I think 4 photo contests is too many - 2 or 3 per year would be ok
2. We probably should put the Creative Mug contest on the shelf for a year or two. I enjoyed it & won 2nd place last year, but there were not a lot of entries & it is primarily a Photoshop editing contest so it only appeals to a small group of us geeky types.
3. I liked the Match the Shop Contest - the 2013 format was a bit hard & the 2014 was a bit too easy -- something in between would be better if we keep this one, but I don't have any specific suggestions right now
4. No Rules Contest - I have to admit that I don't quite get this one - other than a way to have fun & generate banter

"Castings"
I don't see a need for 3 categories of casting - I would suggest adding a Polyclay contest & just having one casting category perhaps 2 at the most (any embedded stuff to include decal/stamp/photos/worthless wood/etc & one that is just plain castings - nothing other than dyes).
I'm not into casting at all, so my opinions may be a little skewed on this one.

"Misc Pen Contests"
My thoughts on what might go here:
1. Slimline challenge (replacing the Russ Fairfield contest) - similar to the Summer Extravaganza Slimline Contest -- that would open it to more than just the RF styles (and even some of the previous RF entries strayed a bit from his styles)
2. Freestyle Pen (main rule should be that the resulting creation should look like something other than a pen at first glance - real cigar pens come to mind)
3. Themed Pens - maybe 2 categories from a list of possibilities that are rotated from year to year: Antler Pens, Bullet Pens, Steampunk, etc??
4. Funny Pens (rather than an Ugly Pen category - this could include edible pens, ugly pens & anything else that invokes a smile & commentary)
5. Modified Pen? (possibly - perhaps select a specific style each year with guidelines for modifications? I suppose this could be something similar to the Slimline Challenge for other kits?)

"Misc Contests"
I liked all of these & don't have any suggestions for new ones at this time. I really like the Wood ID contest, but some adjustments are needed - it seemed that most days the contest was over in the first hour or two & sometimes in the first few minutes. This skewed the contest to those who were on line when the contest was posted. A person should only be able to win once per month as in the Trivia Contest.
I am willing to assist with the "Almost Daily Puzzler" contest

Edgar

 

[mredburn]

I forgot the youth pen contests in my list and added it to the list in red.

 

[mbroberg]

I have no problems dropping the "Beautiful" or "Stunning" adjectives. I do think that we should face the reality that no matter how hard we try to get the membership to vote on contest pens on the technical aspects of the construction (form, fit, finish, material complimenting components, etc.) the votes are going to be given based on the undefinable, WOW factor of the pen. So we might as well encourage WOW factor. Encourage the creation of pens that turn heads and make people want to own them. Face it, crappy form, fit or finish is going to diminish WOW factor so entrants are going to be striving for that anyway.

I don't want to use the words Beginner, Intermediate or Advanced at all. I do hope that we can all agree that we do want to offer a contest for every skill level of turner. Here is a list of 4 contests that I hope we can all agree on and an explanation of my reasoning behind them.

Freestyle = For the most skilled and advanced craftsmen. Anything goes. The pen does not have to look like a pen but must function as a pen. Use any tools you have at your disposal.

Name TBD = For the advanced penmaker who does not have the skills or resources to compete in the Freestyle. It could be a highly modified kit or a kitless pen. It must be immediately recognizable as a pen. No embellishments to the blank except those that can be done on the lathe using hand-held tools.Up until a couple of years ago we did not have a contest that covered this level. The "Advanced Beautiful" pen contest was created for this purpose.

Name TBD = For the penmaker who has developed the ability to make minor modifications to a kit (centerband, finial, MAYBE a closed end) but has not graduated into the world of kitless. Modified slimlines can fall into this category but I don't think we should limit it to slimlines. No embellishments to the blank except those that can be done on the lathe using hand-held tools.

Name TBD = A beautiful pen made from a kit. Does not matter what type of kit. The blank must be available for purchase by IAP members as of the beginning of the contest.

Can we all agree on these four contests? Feel free to suggest tweaks to the definitions.

 

[mbroberg]

Thanks Edgar. That will help a lot.

 

[mredburn]

I agree that we need different contests to appeal to the different interests of the members. I agree with your 4 basic descriptions.
However a contest with its competitiveness means the top skilled entries will win. That means that a true beginner and intermediate wont be competitive in the different categories against other entries. If you look at the slim lines of the extravaganza and the last 2 Russ contests a simple kit slim line wont cut it.
The best we can do is what we are trying to do and thats have different contests for different interests and let the beginners struggle to bring their skill levels up to be competitive. I shot competitive trap for many years. The competitors were divided into classes according to registered proven or known ability and competed not only in the over all chance to win but also could win their 'Class" We cannot possibly decide skill levels for every member that wants to compete in every different contest. We can only offer the members a chance to participate.

 

[D.Oliver]

I have noticed that folks on the IAP tend to be a bit modest about their abilities......

Now just because I am doesn't mean everybody is.......:biggrin:

By the way out of curiousity what's a Liar's Club contest ?

 

[mbroberg]

I agree that we need different contests to appeal to the different interests of the members. I agree with your 4 basic descriptions.
However a contest with its competitiveness means the top skilled entries will win. That means that a true beginner and intermediate wont be competitive in the different categories against other entries. If you look at the slim lines of the extravaganza and the last 2 Russ contests a simple kit slim line wont cut it.
The best we can do is what we are trying to do and thats have different contests for different interests and let the beginners struggle to bring their skill levels up to be competitive. I shot competitive trap for many years. The competitors were divided into classes according to registered proven or known ability and competed not only in the over all chance to win but also could win their 'Class" We cannot possibly decide skill levels for every member that wants to compete in every different contest. We can only offer the members a chance to participate.

I'm really not sure what you are saying Mike.

"However a contest with its competitiveness means the top skilled entries will win."

That is obvious. No matter how a contest is structured as long as it is a contest the best entries will win.

"That means that a true beginner and intermediate wont be competitive in the different categories against other entries."

I don't agree, or maybe don't understand what you are trying to say. People don't generally enter contests in which they do not feel they can compete. All we can do is provide an opportunity for everyone of every skill level to have somewhere to compete. Which of those contests a person chooses to enter is up to them. IF I were to enter contests I would not be entering the Freestyle. I may enter the other three. I do not feel that I would have any advantage in the basic pen kit contest because I would not be allowed to use any skills I may have developed to do anything other than make a cool looking pen from a kit.

"The best we can do is what we are trying to do and thats have different contests for different interests and let the beginners struggle to bring their skill levels up to be competitive."

Whether any individual wants to struggle to bring their skill level up is not up to us, it is up to them. We have provided them with a place to do that. I think these four basic contests allow a person to compete where they are comfortable competing and/or challenge themselves to advance their skills if they so choose.

"I agree that we need different contests to appeal to the different interests of the members. I agree with your 4 basic descriptions.
However"

Any statement followed by a "BUT" or "HOWEVER", to me means, "NOT REALLY". So I am confused as to whether you agree or feel changes are needed. If you have some modifications to suggest to these four basic descriptions by all means please do so and let me know how you would word things.

 

[mbroberg]

I have noticed that folks on the IAP tend to be a bit modest about their abilities......

Now just because I am doesn't mean everybody is.......:biggrin:

By the way out of curiousity what's a Liar's Club contest ?

It's like when you say you are modest about...........anything!

Here are some more examples

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f122/winners-liars-club-contest-58822/#post988903

 

[Edgar]

Those 4 contests look good to me - I suppose a person would only be permitted to enter one of them?

 

[Cmiles1985]

I have no problems dropping the "Beautiful" or "Stunning" adjectives. I do think that we should face the reality that no matter how hard we try to get the membership to vote on contest pens on the technical aspects of the construction (form, fit, finish, material complimenting components, etc.) the votes are going to be given based on the undefinable, WOW factor of the pen. So we might as well encourage WOW factor. Encourage the creation of pens that turn heads and make people want to own them. Face it, crappy form, fit or finish is going to diminish WOW factor so entrants are going to be striving for that anyway.

I don't want to use the words Beginner, Intermediate or Advanced at all. I do hope that we can all agree that we do want to offer a contest for every skill level of turner. Here is a list of 4 contests that I hope we can all agree on and an explanation of my reasoning behind them.

Freestyle = For the most skilled and advanced craftsmen. Anything goes. The pen does not have to look like a pen but must function as a pen. Use any tools you have at your disposal.

Name TBD = For the advanced penmaker who does not have the skills or resources to compete in the Freestyle. It could be a highly modified kit or a kitless pen. It must be immediately recognizable as a pen. No embellishments to the blank except those that can be done on the lathe using hand-held tools.Up until a couple of years ago we did not have a contest that covered this level. The "Advanced Beautiful" pen contest was created for this purpose.

Name TBD = For the penmaker who has developed the ability to make minor modifications to a kit (centerband, finial, MAYBE a closed end) but has not graduated into the world of kitless. Modified slimlines can fall into this category but I don't think we should limit it to slimlines. No embellishments to the blank except those that can be done on the lathe using hand-held tools.

Name TBD = A beautiful pen made from a kit. Does not matter what type of kit. The blank must be available for purchase by IAP members as of the beginning of the contest.

Can we all agree on these four contests? Feel free to suggest tweaks to the definitions.

So is this to only refer to the pen making contests, and not including casting contests? Or, is your suggestion to only have four contests?

I love the idea of not separating by some self perceived competency level. I do worry a bit about the last contest being available for ANY kit. We all know that the first inclination to vote is WOW factor. I think limiting to a commercially available (at the beginning of the BASH) kit and blank is a good idea, but this contest could just be bought. I know it's not a huge amount of much to win (other than pride and bragging rights), but figure a Zen with a decent blank and perfect fit and finish next to a Jr. Emperor with a Trustone blank and a shoddy fit and finish. The beauty of the kit will outweigh the nice craftsmanship of the other pen. Maybe that could be limited to any ballpoint kit.

When it comes to the daily contests, I liked the trivia the way it was. The Wood ID contest was luck and timing biased. I don't really know how to offer up suggestions to fix that other than rotate beginning times throughout the Bash (would likely need someone retired or otherwise staying at home full time to manage).

I like the idea of only two casting contests: color and embedded/tube-on. Perhaps a theme would be really cool for the tube-on to give a minimal guideline and inspire creativity within that particular theme.

Hopefully this input helps. If not, call the mental house and send me in.

 

[mbroberg]

No, my suggestion is not to have only 4 contests. I am just hoping that we can start by identifying 4 contests that everyone agrees we should have. Once that is done we can fill out the rest of the schedule.

 

[mbroberg]

Those 4 contests look good to me - I suppose a person would only be permitted to enter one of them?

We could limit it to one, but I am not sure it is necessary. If the rules are written properly then it shouldn't matter, IMHO. Do you think it matter? If so, Why?

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I've always been confused by the freestyle contest. On the one hand we seem to want to say it is the place for the most skilled / advanced pen makers. On the other (in the past anyway) we seem to sell it as the place for the pen oddities (e.g. space ships, the crazier the better). That seems an odd match to me.

As I think about pen making, I see 4 primary areas of skill / interest.

1) The ability to make a simple blank round and size it to kit parts.

2) The ability to modify / replace kit components to customize a kit pen (e.g. custom finials, custom centerbands, closed ends).

3) The ability to make custom blanks (e.g.. casting (any style), segmenting, scrolling, whatever).

4) The ability to make custom pens with a minimum of purchased components.

Building on these skills:


The level 1 contest could be "Make a pen from a commercial blank and pen kit with no modifications".

The level 2 contest could be "Make a modified pen from a commercial blank and pen kits". Allowed modification could be any of: mix and match kit parts, modify / fabricate finials and center bands. No modifications to the commercial blanks. Modification would not be mandatory.

The level 3 contest could be "Make a pen using a self-made custom blank and a commercial pen kit". No modifications / substitutions to the kit parts. No other rules or restrictions.

The level 4 contest could be "Make a pen." No rules, no restrictions.

The most advanced / skilled pen makers should gravitate towards level 4, maybe level 3. The beginners would feel at home in level 1.

We could also rule than anyone that has previously won a prize at level 1 or 2 must move up to a higher level in future contests.

Ed

 

[Edgar]

Those 4 contests look good to me - I suppose a person would only be permitted to enter one of them?

We could limit it to one, but I am not sure it is necessary. If the rules are written properly then it shouldn't matter, IMHO. Do you think it matter? If so, Why?

Not at all - I just wasn't sure if the intent was to limit people to one contest or allow them to enter as many as they want.

I would actually prefer being able to enter multiple pen contests that require different levels of skill. In fact, I have an idea in mind for a freestyle pen that I would like to try, but I'd also like to be able to enter one or two of the others as well.

As you noted, the key is to write the rules well for these contests so it will be clear what is and is not acceptable in each.

 

[Joe S.]

I have noticed that folks on the IAP tend to be a bit modest about their abilities......

Now just because I am doesn't mean everybody is.......:biggrin:

By the way out of curiousity what's a Liar's Club contest ?

It's like when you say you are modest about...........anything!

Here are some more examples

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f122/winners-liars-club-contest-58822/#post988903

That would be a fun one to see come back!

 

[Displaced Canadian]

To me the freestyle pen contest is a place to show and show off a persons abilities in other areas under the guise of pen making. If you were a carver and did a carving of a medieval warrior throwing a spear and the spear is a pen it would be allowed. The pen that won last time is a great example. The pen was great but the combination of pen and stand really put it over the top.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

4 main contests ideas,
1, pen made with a kit using all the parts in the kit with a wood blank.
2, pen made with a kit using all the parts in the kit with an acrylic blank.
3, pen made with a kit using most of the parts. Also known as modified.
4, pen made with few parts. Kitless

To me having a wood pen does add finishing to the equation.
Next 6 would be,
5 youth contest.
6 beginners, maybe call it new member contest.
7 freestyle
8 casting, color and other
9 ugly pen
10 not sure what to pick for 10
I was thinking instead of trying to regulate who is a beginner just draw the line at those who joined after February the previous year.

 

[mbroberg]

4 main contests ideas,
1, pen made with a kit using all the parts in the kit with a wood blank.
2, pen made with a kit using all the parts in the kit with an acrylic blank.
3, pen made with a kit using most of the parts. Also known as modified.
4, pen made with few parts. Kitless

To me having a wood pen does add finishing to the equation.
Next 6 would be,
5 youth contest.
6 beginners, maybe call it new member contest.
7 freestyle
8 casting, color and other
9 ugly pen
10 not sure what to pick for 10
I was thinking instead of trying to regulate who is a beginner just draw the line at those who joined after February the previous year.

Contest rules can be written with beginners in mind. Your first two contest suggestions should be no problem for beginners. I do not want to attempt to define anyone's skill level for them by using words such as beginner, new turner, intermediate or advanced.

 

[Edgar]

I fully agree with Mike on this one. We can easily write the rules for the pen contests so beginners will have a fairly even playing field with everyone else in one or two of the contests without having some arbitrary definitions of who is a beginner & who isn't.

I really struggled between the beginner & intermediate contests last year. I had been turning for right at a year & had made a little over 100 pens by that time so I didn't qualify for the beginner contest based on my understanding of the requirements & I certainly didn't feel that I was ready for the intermediate contest so I wound up not entering either one. Based on the entries that were in the intermediate contest, I'm glad that I didn't - there were a lot of techniques in that contest that I still haven't tried.

 

[mbroberg]

A contest for the less experienced Pen Turner

In reading over the comments I think we are all on the same page but are not in agreement as to how the concept should be expressed.

Let's just talk about beginners. We want a contest to appeal to the less experienced members.

In my opinion such a contest would involve a kit with no modifications. I think everyone agrees with that.

Should we restrict the blank to wood? If so, should we restrict the blank to a certain species of wood?

Should we restrict the entries to a certain type or style of kit. In my opinion making a ballpoint is no more difficult than making a fountain pen but less experienced members seem to be intimidated by roller balls and fountain pens. Maybe due to higher cost? Should we allow any kit for this particular contest or should we keep the playing field absolutely level and specify a certain type of kit (i.e. single tubed ball point, a cigar, slimline)?

How much weight should be put on the finish? Should we require a CA finish or let the contestants use any type of finish they want?

EDIT IN: Keep in mind that we should only be defining what this contest should be in broad terms. Specific rules will be written by the contest chair. Maybe some of the above questions are too specific at this point. maybe we should say that one contest will involve the completion of an unmodified kit with a wooden blank and leave it at that until the contest chair is chosen.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I would say use a wood blank, not stabilized, maybe not a burl. Other than that I would leave the choice of blank to the entrant. Wood selection is part of the pen making process. Perhaps limit the kit by all using single tubes or all using 2 tubes and stay with a ballpoint. I wouldn't require a CA finish. Some woods finish just fine with sanding and burnishing.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

How about

"completion of an unmodified commercially available ballpoint kit using a commercially available blank. The combined cost of the kit and blank must be less than $X."

X would be a number small enough deal with the concern expressed by some members about big wallets buying the competition, but large enough to allow a fair degree of creativity.

This gives the entrants (presumably largely beginners) the flexibility to work with any material they are comfortable with. It also would make the contest a little more visually stimulating for the viewing audience than if we are overly limiting on what blank material can be used.

Ed

 

[mredburn]

segmentation or casting or clay if we dont hold to wood only? The sierra or its clones?

 

[PR_Princess]

In reading over the comments I think we are all on the same page but are not in agreement as to how the concept should be expressed.

Let's just talk about beginners. We want a contest to appeal to the less experienced members.

In my opinion such a contest would involve a kit with no modifications. I think everyone agrees with that.

Should we restrict the blank to wood? If so, should we restrict the blank to a certain species of wood?

Should we restrict the entries to a certain type or style of kit. In my opinion making a ballpoint is no more difficult than making a fountain pen but less experienced members seem to be intimidated by roller balls and fountain pens. Maybe due to higher cost? Should we allow any kit for this particular contest or should we keep the playing field absolutely level and specify a certain type of kit (i.e. single tubed ball point, a cigar, slimline)?

How much weight should be put on the finish? Should we require a CA finish or let the contestants use any type of finish they want?

EDIT IN: Keep in mind that we should only be defining what this contest should be in broad terms. Specific rules will be written by the contest chair. Maybe some of the above questions are too specific at this point. maybe we should say that one contest will involve the completion of an unmodified kit with a wooden blank and leave it at that until the contest chair is chosen.

Perhaps it would be beneficial to publish in the rules a given "weight" to certain aspects of a contest, in addition to universal "givens" for that contest.

Say for example in the beginners, you may want to require a non modified kit as a given. But other things could be based a percentage of importance, depending on what the chair wants to emphasize. Again using beginners.. you could use something like 50% fit and finish, 30% blank difficulty, 20% esthetics (or whatever).

However in a contest like freestyle you may want to require a "perfect" fit and finish and give a high percentage of importance to creativity and esthetics.

As an aside, this might also help provide the membership a guide when voting in the polls.... an answer to the question "what should I be voting on?".

 

[Ed McDonnell]

segmentation or casting or clay if we dont hold to wood only? The sierra or its clones?

If we go with commercially available + dollar limit idea, the choice of the dollar limit would dictate what we would be seeing.

Ed

 

[Edgar]

I would suggest for the basic level pen an "unmodified ballpoint pen kit using all the parts supplied with the kit (with no substitutions) and a commercially available wood pen blank using a finish of choice"

A wood pen blank would be defined as natural wood with no stabilizing, segmenting, or other modification of the blank.

We could leave it open to any ballpoint kit or stipulate a particular style (slimline, single-tube Parker refill, cigar etc and rotate the style from year to yea).

I'm not in favor of using a $ limit for the kit/blank. There is too much variation from vendor to vendor and sale prices can really affect things. Sometimes you can buy a cigar kit cheaper than a slimline.

 

[mbroberg]

My concern with price is the same as Edgar's. It will come down to who is the best shopper. If a question arises are we going to make the entrants submit receipts?

If the concern is that someone can "buy the contest" a restriction to a certain type of pen kit and blank would address that.