Bog Oak Color

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
6,738
Location
Tunica, MS,
Looks like sanding dust to me, specifically CA sanding dust.

Blow it out with air; wipe it off with denatured alcohol, but that can produce its own problems.

The blank looks a little rough. Is that your applied CA as a finish? If so, there may be several recommendations for others and they may work for you. However, my recommendation is to build up the CA and then with a scraper, very sharp, (Or carbide insert tool) and with the lathe running 2000 - 3000 rpm, touch the scraper to the CA and smooth it out. This saves lots of sanding. Several do this with a skew.

I haven't had that in 10 years or more because it is as much fine tuned technique acquired from experience.

On heavy grained wood, the sealing is not done very well and as a result the grains have little holes/veins for sanding dust to gather in. You want to get rid of those by sealing them well. Medium or Thick CA will do that. Then CA the whole thing.
 

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
1,687
Location
Franklin, IN
With that many coats you likely have CA dust under the CA or between layers. Makes it tough to get out.

From personal experience you may need to take it back down to the wood, clean it up, then check if there is any CA dust in the grain and still under CA. Either sand, clean and work it out or see if you can stain/color it this go around and do better next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

Dehn0045

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
955
Location
Houston, Texas
I'm with Hank, but it isn't clear to me whether you have done any sanding of the blank prior to this point. If not, then I assume that it can't be CA sanding dust. Is it possible that it is small pieces of applicator? I have noticed that open grained woods have a tendency to "grab" my applicator (paper towel, or foam). I try to use a light touch with my applicator, and don't work too long. Paper towels really reduce working time compared to foam or plastic/wax paper.

Another possibility is rapid curing of CA. If small "pools" of CA cure too fast it will bubble and turn white. Based on the pics I don't think this is the issue, but figured I'd throw it out there. I have had this issue when filling voids, but not with finishing a smooth blank.

No matter what is causing the spots, I don't think it is a normal feature of bog oak.

This is a little off topic, but I hope you find useful:
As Hank noted, the blank looks a little rough, but it isn't too far off from where mine are at this point. Getting a smoother finish with the application is possible, but comes with practice and refining your method. I also agree with Hank about using a tool to smooth things out and reduce time sanding, just use very light touches and check often. Otherwise wet sanding with 800 grit and building a nice slurry on the paper can be effective and fast.
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
10,103
Location
Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Is that bog oak from Twvaman ?

I bought some of his and found it tricky to finish because of the coarseness of the wood after turning ... pits and grooves due to grain.

If you sand the wood after turning you're in trouble unless you have a way to clean the sanding dust off completely. . It gathers in the grooves and is a devil to remove.

My solution to the problem was to apply CA immediately after turning. . And you have to apply enough CA to fill up the grooves and give you a fairly even surface.

Then do the sanding (or very delicate scraping as described above).

Even after you do all this, and are successful in not trapping any dust in the CA, you can see the coarseness of the wood through the CA.

You just have to accept that. . It can be appealing in its own way. . I don't mind it now.
 

alanemorrison

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
177
Location
N Ireland
I have the same problems with bog oak and agree that because of all the fissures then sanding dust is the problem. I don't use CA as a finish and clean with DNA after each sanding and still have the problem. I will try Danny's solution of blowing out with compressed air as well ( another purchase )
 

RVA_Tyndall

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
101
Thanks for the advice. Yes, this piece is from Twvaman. The lower piece of oak broke on the lathe and I had to glue it back together and only shaped it down by sanding it with 120 grit because the chisels were catching the groves in the wood and tearing the blank.

This photo was taken after sanding from 120 up through the grits to 600. I used my air compressor to blow off the blank at each step and then used DNA to wipe down the blank before moving up grits.

I then added 6 coats of thin CA and MM it down. I then added 3 more coats of CA. This is when the photo was taken.

I use a paper towel to apply the CA.


https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/rvatyndall/
 
Last edited:

MDWine

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
2,551
Location
Manassas Park, Virginia, USA.
Those that I have done were finished with MANY coats of lacquer until everything was filled. Unfortunately, I have no images of them. They were fairly "unremarkable" as far as I'm concerned, as my wood was very dark. The value to the customer was the accompanying certificate to prove it's origins.

I recently purchased some of the BO (i forget from who), but my plan is the same.... many coats of lacquer with gentle sanding in between. It's a long process, but I enjoy the "zen" experience... a bit of toddy, some bluegrass, and some micromesh.... I may be weird, your mileage may vary
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
6,414
Location
Alpharetta, GA 30004
I experience the same with open grain woods. I over came it by following the advice above.

Blowing out dust with compressed air, wiping with DNA, allowing DNA to dry, blowing out again, DNA again..... Then I hold my breath, say a prayer and hope there are no spots. With lighter toned woods, I used to get dark spots.

As long as I ensure there is no dust, I have had good "luck".
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
10,103
Location
Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Using a paper towel to apply the CA can sometimes be a problem because the coarser (rougher) woods like bog oak tend to catch small fibres of the paper which then get embedded in the CA and don't look nice.

I have started using, instead of paper towel, thin craft foam from Michaels. . I cut the sheet into 1" x 3" pieces. . The foam from Hobby Lobby might be better but I don't have access to that store here in Canada. . The foam from Michaels is OK if you are quick, but after a few seconds it starts to react with the CA and makes white smoke. . It is not the perfect solution ... still searching for that !!! . Also, the CA soaks through it and sticks to my fingers on the other side. . Other people here on IAP recommended the craft foam in several threads some time ago. . Thanks, folks !
 

RVA_Tyndall

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
101
Took it down some with the skew. I think the white filler was a mix of the paper towel and CA dust. I did a number trying to finish this one.

Here are some shots of me working it down.

For the finish this time I am working with Abranet sandpaper from 180 - 600 sanding only with the grain. I wore plastic gloves too and applied DNA at each grit with my hands to remove dust and any fibers. I started using an old rag and the cotton was getting caught in the blank.
IMG_2707.JPGIMG_2709.JPG


https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/rvatyndall/
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
10,103
Location
Coquitlam, BC, Canada
That looks much better and more like what I got at that stage. Yours might still have a little dust on it.

Try scratching it a little (not too much) with a toothbrush or, better still, a brush with brass bristles. . I do that on roughish surfaces to remove bits of dust that are stuck in crevices or pits. . It does mark the surface a little bit, but the surface already has crevices. . I have found that CA conceals any marks left by the brass-bristled brush.

This particular bog oak is not jet black ... just a little bit grayish, so some tendency to that coloration in places is normal.

I would show my pen, but I can't find it !!

Thanks for the continuing information.
 
Last edited:

RVA_Tyndall

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
101
Good idea on the brush. I didn’t think of that. I was so happy that my kit and blank were not ruined that I goofed up the finishing process...

I ended putting on 3 coats of CA and the put it under the buffer. I even forgot to polish it.

Good news is that I have another one in process where I can apply all of these learnings!
 
Last edited:

hokie

Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
79
Location
DC Area
While I may not be able to help in this instance of finishing a bog oak pen, I can share what recently worked for me recently...

I knew if I finished bog oak like I normally do (with several coats of CA), I likely wouldn't get to see/feel what makes bog oak distinctive from just a straight black wood like ebony. So I did my research and found melamine lacquer with a cellulose sanding sealer underneath works amazingly. It dries super quick, leaves no brush/application marks, and is very durable. It's not too plastic-feeling and i can get a matte/satin finish with a few wipes of 0000 steel wool for a very raw wood look. Best of all for bog oak, the open grain does not collect finish and fill up like other finishes might. The texture is almost like bare wood. I just used canned air for dusting electronics to blow away most of any dust that accumulates and wipe down with alcohol between coats.

Hopefully these quick and dirty pictures can convey what I'm describing:



Best of luck to anyone giving it a shot! It's a wood with an awesome history that would be a shame to hide under thick coats of finish.
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
10,103
Location
Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Hokie ...

What brands of melamine lacquer and cellulose sanding sealer do you use, please ?

I need to try a new finishing process for wood pens. . Thanks in advance.
 

hokie

Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
79
Location
DC Area
Hokie ...

What brands of melamine lacquer and cellulose sanding sealer do you use, please ?

I need to try a new finishing process for wood pens. . Thanks in advance.
Apologies for not including that in the post!
I am using this product from CSUSA for the melamine. I can't find another dealer in the US that sells it.
I also bought the cellulose sanding sealer from them too, but I know that is available much more widely for some reason.

Full disclosure: I purchased the system for the sole intention of applying hard wearing matte or satin finishes on woods like bog oak. I have not tried polishing or building a glass like finish. The can of finish I purchased says "gloss" on it, but it's no really that glossy once applied. Worth mentioning, before I apply any of the product mentioned so far, I do one flood coat of the thinnest CA I have and wipe away to do a crude stabilization for added strength.
Also, it has a strong chemical smell, so apply in a well ventilated space.
 
Last edited:

penicillin

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
160
Using a paper towel to apply the CA can sometimes be a problem because the coarser (rougher) woods like bog oak tend to catch small fibres of the paper which then get embedded in the CA and don't look nice.

I have started using, instead of paper towel, thin craft foam from Michaels. . I cut the sheet into 1" x 3" pieces. . The foam from Hobby Lobby might be better but I don't have access to that store here in Canada. . The foam from Michaels is OK if you are quick, but after a few seconds it starts to react with the CA and makes white smoke. . It is not the perfect solution ... still searching for that !!! . Also, the CA soaks through it and sticks to my fingers on the other side. . Other people here on IAP recommended the craft foam in several threads some time ago. . Thanks, folks !
I have seen people use plastic bags for the CA application but that hasn’t worked well for me.

There is a Hobby Lobby close to me so I can give that a try. I think using a needle to investigate the white spots is a good idea. [...]
An inexpensive source for craft foam is our local Walmart store. Walmart sells a 9x12 inch sheet for less than a dollar. It is available in various colors, but I chose white.

Craft foam saves on CA glue compared with paper towels, but I cannot say whether it gives better results. The CA went on more "wavy" when I used it, but I am not sure it was the foam. The issues could have been related to finishing when it was too cold. I'll try again in a couple weeks.

I used to dispose the small plastic bags from the kits, but have been saving them recently. I plan to try them as "finger gloves" to apply CA finish. My friends tell me that it is a good way to apply a CA finish.
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
10,103
Location
Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Last edited:

RVA_Tyndall

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
101
Hokie ...

What brands of melamine lacquer and cellulose sanding sealer do you use, please ?

I need to try a new finishing process for wood pens. . Thanks in advance.
Apologies for not including that in the post!
I am using this product from CSUSA for the melamine. I can't find another dealer in the US that sells it.
I also bought the cellulose sanding sealer from them too, but I know that is available much more widely for some reason.

Full disclosure: I purchased the system for the sole intention of applying hard wearing matte or satin finishes on woods like bog oak. I have not tried polishing or building a glass like finish. The can of finish I purchased says "gloss" on it, but it's no really that glossy once applied. Worth mentioning, before I apply any of the product mentioned so far, I do one flood coat of the thinnest CA I have and wipe away to do a crude stabilization for added strength.
Also, it has a strong chemical smell, so apply in a well ventilated space.


I found both of these products at Woodcraft yesterday. They weren’t with the rest of the finishes but rather in the pen making aisle of my local store.

I am spoiled that there is a Michaels Craft store right next door so I was able to get some craft foam pads too. I will give these a try today.
 

penicillin

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
160
Not these. I think these are used for posters for science fairs, stuff like that. They are stiff with a "crunchy" core.

Yes, more like these, but the ones in my local Walmart are sold in single, larger sheets, more like notebook paper size. I cut it into roughly 3/4 x 1.5 inch pieces for finishing. They are 2 mm thick. One large sheet lasts a long time, and it costs less than a buck (< $1).

After quick web research, I believe that these are Ethylene-Vinyl Acetate (EVA) foam sheets. I learned that it comes in a wide range of metric thicknesses, measured in millimeters. The ones I buy are 2 mm thick. It is a common size for many uses.

Search for "EVA foam sheet 2 mm". Unless you live in a remote place, you should be able to find it in local stores. Try Walmart, Target, craft/hobby stores (Michaels, Hobby Lobby, etc.), or stationary stores. Small children use it for crafts.
 

penicillin

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
160
Off topic:

-> Does anyone have a "Bog Oak Certificate" file to share? I purchased a few ancient bog oak pen blanks recently. They came with a multi-page PDF file university dating report, with a detailed scientific description of the age testing that was done and the final results.

The report attests to the age of the wood, but is not very attractive for a gift. A small, pretty, well-designed certificate would be better. I assume that at least some people here designed their own certificates for bog oak blanks.

-> Does anyone have a bog oak certificate design that they are willing to share? I am looking for something relatively small, perhaps business card size - 2 x 3.5 inches?
 

RVA_Tyndall

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
101
I have the one TWVAMAN sent me. Pm your email address and I can send that file. I haven’t created anything custom
 

hokie

Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
79
Location
DC Area
Hokie ...

What brands of melamine lacquer and cellulose sanding sealer do you use, please ?

I need to try a new finishing process for wood pens. . Thanks in advance.
Apologies for not including that in the post!
I am using this product from CSUSA for the melamine. I can't find another dealer in the US that sells it.
I also bought the cellulose sanding sealer from them too, but I know that is available much more widely for some reason.

Full disclosure: I purchased the system for the sole intention of applying hard wearing matte or satin finishes on woods like bog oak. I have not tried polishing or building a glass like finish. The can of finish I purchased says "gloss" on it, but it's no really that glossy once applied. Worth mentioning, before I apply any of the product mentioned so far, I do one flood coat of the thinnest CA I have and wipe away to do a crude stabilization for added strength.
Also, it has a strong chemical smell, so apply in a well ventilated space.


I found both of these products at Woodcraft yesterday. They weren’t with the rest of the finishes but rather in the pen making aisle of my local store.

I am spoiled that there is a Michaels Craft store right next door so I was able to get some craft foam pads too. I will give these a try today.
You sure you found melamine lacquer at Woodcraft? I just did a search on their website and it comes back empty for anything finish related. Do stores stock their own products not supplied to them by corporate?
 

penicillin

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
160
I have the one TWVAMAN sent me. Pm your email address and I can send that file. I haven’t created anything custom
Related to certificates for bog oak pen blanks:

I sent the PM and @RVA_Tyndall was kind enough to send me a copy of his file, which is the same one that I got from the seller. I didn't realize that the last page was intended as a certificate. It has a "watermark" image of green tree rings in the background. It looks like someone copied the texture of the paper, too. Here is the text from the certificate:

"Dendrochronological Dating Certificate
from the Dendrochronological
Laboratory
Queens University Belfast

"Site Name: Derrycanan Bog, Co. Roscommon
Laboratory ldentification: Q11944
Date of Measurement: 13th March 2017
Number of Measured Rings: 168
Submitted by: Michael Hanley

"Dendrochronological Date:
The Measured Tree-Ring Series Dates from 4663BC to 4496BC
The Estimated Death Date for the Tree will be 4464BC +/- 9 years or later

"David Brown
School of Natural and Built Environment
Queens University Belfast
Belfast
BT7 lNN"

With no disrespect intended, a botanist might appreciate that certificate, but not my spouse's 85 year old aunt of Irish heritage, who is the intended recipient of my first bog oak pen.

I had hoped for a small card, like the ones that come with Bethlehem olive wood. The card would give a simple description, not technical, and have an artistic, decorative border. Maybe a few graphic icons of Irish symbols. Something tasteful; definitely not images from the Lucky Charms cereal box. :-(

I found several images from web searches. Here is an example for bog oak wood from England. It could serve as a template to make your own for Irish bog oak:



After finding a few online images, I think I have enough ideas to make my own cards for my pens. If I come up with something really good, I'll post it here. Otherwise, start with a web search and good luck!

Special thanks to RVA_Tyndall for sending me the file!

P.S. You can find Derrycanan Bog on the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Derrycanan+Bog,+Co.+Roscommon,+Ireland/

If you zoom in from the satellite view, you can see how they are harvesting the bog oak around the perimeter, near the roads and other access points.
 
Last edited:
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Top Bottom