What would you charge?

[Krash]

Hey all,

I have a couple pens that I am donating to an auction for missions at church. They are wanting to know the value of the pens, probably to establish a starting point for the bidding. Most of you have seen these pens before but here is a brief description.

Pen #1
Wood: Dyed Amboyna Burl from George
Pen kit: Classic Elite 2

Pen #2 Ark of the Covenant
Wood: Shittim acacia wood from the Sinai Desert
Pen Kit: Atrax Gold

So, your opinion, what would be a good value to put on these pens?

Thanks for your inputs.

 

[Krash]

One more bit of information.

Labor:
Pen #1: 2.5 hours
Pen #2: 5 hours

Each pen has about $25 in materials.

 

[Dave Turner]

The value you place on your pens determines the tax donation value. I'd go with a realistic retail price - $75 and $125 would be my starting points for pens like those.

I've donated a pen before to an auction, and they just wanted a figure so people would know what they were bidding on. Most people have little concept of what these types of pens cost.

 

[triw51]

I have been advised to go 3 times the cost of the materials and do not count your time. Another advised to go 2 times the cost of materials plus your shop time. So if your shop time is worth 25 dollars an hour
Pen 1 would be $25 plus $62.5 rounded up to $90
pen 2 would be $25 plus $125 for $150

 

[Krash]

Great thoughts Dave and William. William, it looks like your end method was 1 x materials + labor x $25 that resulted in values of $90 and $150. That came out reasonably close to Dave's $75 and $125 which calculates to the same with a $20/hour labor charge.

Any other thoughts or pricing methods?

 

[wyone]

Well I think they should be worth more than that for a couple reasons.

Pen #1 uses a blank that was imported from Australia and custom dyed. I think at least $100

Pen #2 uses a blank that was custom segmented and manufactured with a specific religious theme $175

Just my opinion... you need to make sure they know the pens are not just something that you made that is pretty and turned out well. Both are made using custom materials that are not going to be found anywhere in the US for #1 and the second will not be found anywhere else in the world.

Maybe that is why I do not sell pens though, because the story of the pen is important to me as well. For the auction though, the story should be that important in my opinion

 

[robertkulp]

These are fabulous pens. Hopefully, those bidding will appreciate what was involved in creating them and the underlying meaning of what they represent.

One note regarding taxes, though. If I understand correctly, (my wife, a CPA, has told me this for my deductions) the IRS only allows deductions for your actual costs of materials. Time and equipment doesn't count, unless you paid for these, too (such as hiring someone or renting the equipment).

Official Disclaimer - Your mileage may vary. Please don't take my word for it, but check with your tax advisor regarding your own particular situation.

 

[Krash]

These are fabulous pens. Hopefully, those bidding will appreciate what was involved in creating them and the underlying meaning of what they represent.

One note regarding taxes, though. If I understand correctly, (my wife, a CPA, has told me this for my deductions) the IRS only allows deductions for your actual costs of materials. Time and equipment doesn't count, unless you paid for these, too (such as hiring someone or renting the equipment).

Official Disclaimer - Your mileage may vary. Please don't take my word for it, but check with your tax advisor regarding your own particular situation.

Ha ha ... I'm not claiming these on my taxes. I'm just giving them away.

 

[plantman]

These are fabulous pens. Hopefully, those bidding will appreciate what was involved in creating them and the underlying meaning of what they represent.

One note regarding taxes, though. If I understand correctly, (my wife, a CPA, has told me this for my deductions) the IRS only allows deductions for your actual costs of materials. Time and equipment doesn't count, unless you paid for these, too (such as hiring someone or renting the equipment).

Official Disclaimer - Your mileage may vary. Please don't take my word for it, but check with your tax advisor regarding your own particular situation.

+++++ on the tax advice !!!! You can only deduct the amount of your materials if you give them away or sell them. Your time has no meaning to the IRS. You must also show a profit in 1 of the last 4 years to qualify for most other deductions. Unless this is a full time business, it is usualy not worth the hassel of dealing with the IRS or your state tax department. You can put any value you want for your donated pens. I sent two out last week for MOPS and told them they should get at least a $40 bid each. Jim S

 

[robutacion]

Well, I probably should be the least person to give advice on your pens value, I provided you with the blank for the first pen and the wings on the second pen were made also with one of my very unique woods, the Holly-Oak.

If the wood stories have any value when pricing a pen, both have one but the Holly-Oak (AKA Bay tree) wood, has the best story of the 2...!

I thought in giving justice to what makes the second pen so visualy attractive, and that is the Holly-Oak pieces you made the wings with and off-course, the significance of the Acacia species you use as the pens main body, that will be the most crucial detail for those that have religious tendencies.

The presentation of the pens should have an accompanying story leaflet/info, the combination of pens and stories in an auction of such nature, should be treated in a very different way, then taken the 2 pens to the "markets" and sell them to any passing by person...!

The whole value of the pens, will depend upon the way they are presented and the documentation that makes part of the pens. If someone will be willing to pay its true value with a high bid, will be because of these factors, they want to take home a lot more than just handmade pens.

With anything that sells cheap, comes the assumption of China made and not a great level of quality, it also gives the impression that, the maker doesn't value much his/hers work and is trying just to cover the costs to go and make another 2 pens.

An auction of this nature, should be treated as an opportunity to showcase your work, the materials you used and why such selection.

The auction price should start at a value that represents all these things I talked about therefore, the pen #1 should start at $200.00 and pen #2 at $350.00 and go from there.

I was the one to organize the auction, that would be my basis...! This is off-course my opinion as the reasons that make me reach it...!

PS: Correct me if I'm wrong but, why taxes on a donation...??? as far as I know, in Australia, donations do not attract taxes and the proceeds of a donation if used for a non-profit purpose, is not taxable...!

Cheers
George

 

[wyone]

I may be mistaken, but I think the tax discussion was related to what he could use as a deduction on his taxes for giving a gift to a non profit organization.

I like how you think about values!

 

[Edgar]

There are a couple of things to consider - fair retail value and suggested starting bid value.

As Robert noted, the donor is generally only allowed to deduct the actual cost of materials if the donor wants to take a tax deduction.

The buyer is only able to deduct the difference between the fair retail value and what he pays for the item. For these purposes, I generally set the "fair retail value" of my donations on the low end so the buyer can maximize their writeoff if they wish. In this case I would set that value around $50-$75 for these pens, even though we all know that they are really worth considerably more than that.

As far as a suggested starting bid - to some extent that depends a lot on the venue, the attendees and the skill of the auctioneer. For our church's auction, a reasonable starting bid for these two pens would be $100 & $150 respectively. I couldn't possibly gauge the potential selling price at your auction though, so perhaps a higher suggested starting bid might be feasible.

Someone is gonna get some great pens!

 

[ed4copies]

Because we recognize that the "tax deduction" is the amount over the value of the pen, I would list the value as "$125, using my normal costs for labor, materials and profit", I would then also add, "Since I have donated my time and the materials, there is no real cost." Then, the bidder can determine what is his "donation" as opposed to the "value".

FWIW,
Ed

 

[thewishman]

Well I think they should be worth more than that for a couple reasons.

Pen #1 uses a blank that was imported from Australia and custom dyed. I think at least $100

Pen #2 uses a blank that was custom segmented and manufactured with a specific religious theme $175

For the auction though, the story should be that important in my opinion

I think Mitch has it about right. I might add a bit more for the second pen, $200ish. Its theme and the woods used should be of more importance to the religious setting and audience - especially concerning the beneficiary of the proceeds.

 

[Krash]

All great inputs guys. I appreciate the guidance.

 

[plantman]

Well, I probably should be the least person to give advice on your pens value, I provided you with the blank for the first pen and the wings on the second pen were made also with one of my very unique woods, the Holly-Oak.

If the wood stories have any value when pricing a pen, both have one but the Holly-Oak (AKA Bay tree) wood, has the best story of the 2...!

I thought in giving justice to what makes the second pen so visualy attractive, and that is the Holly-Oak pieces you made the wings with and off-course, the significance of the Acacia species you use as the pens main body, that will be the most crucial detail for those that have religious tendencies.

The presentation of the pens should have an accompanying story leaflet/info, the combination of pens and stories in an auction of such nature, should be treated in a very different way, then taken the 2 pens to the "markets" and sell them to any passing by person...!

The whole value of the pens, will depend upon the way they are presented and the documentation that makes part of the pens. If someone will be willing to pay its true value with a high bid, will be because of these factors, they want to take home a lot more than just handmade pens.

With anything that sells cheap, comes the assumption of China made and not a great level of quality, it also gives the impression that, the maker doesn't value much his/hers work and is trying just to cover the costs to go and make another 2 pens.

An auction of this nature, should be treated as an opportunity to showcase your work, the materials you used and why such selection.

The auction price should start at a value that represents all these things I talked about therefore, the pen #1 should start at $200.00 and pen #2 at $350.00 and go from there.

I was the one to organize the auction, that would be my basis...! This is off-course my opinion as the reasons that make me reach it...!

PS: Correct me if I'm wrong but, why taxes on a donation...??? as far as I know, in Australia, donations do not attract taxes and the proceeds of a donation if used for a non-profit purpose, is not taxable...!

Cheers
George

Having attended many auctions in my years, I agree totaly with George. The key factor in getting the best price for any item being sold, is the auctioneers themselves. If they are knowlegable about what they are selling, have a good disscription of how or what the item is made of, and have the ability to excite the crowd into a bidding war, you will get the best price for your item !! If he/she comes out and says " the next items we have up for bid are two home made pens", look for that $5-10 bid to take them home. The best way to sell something is a good presentation be it oral, written, or visual. Two pens held in the hand will sell for a lot less than two pens in a nice pen box. Try not to sell them together as choise to the highest bidder. Jim S

 

[Krash]

The final tally was

Pen#1: $150
Pen#2: $100

George's Amboyna blank was a big success with a few people bidding it up. They loved the color.

Thanks George and Mr. Anonymous for the blank. It went to a good cause..

 

[robutacion]

The final tally was

Pen#1: $150
Pen#2: $100

George's Amboyna blank was a big success with a few people bidding it up. They loved the color.

Thanks George and Mr. Anonymous for the blank. It went to a good cause..

Well, surprise, surprise, what do I know...???

I always thought that pen #2 would fetch more dollars than pen #1...!

Oh well, its done and dusted so, no point in crying over spilled milk, huh...???:biggrin:

On the other hand, is interesting to know that, the Amboyna sap dyed/stabilized blank, did stir a small fight, it certainly was a beaut of a pen...!

For the auction proceeds recipient, 250 buckaroos is better than no buckaroos so, well done in the end...!

Cheers
George

 

[tim self]

Congrats. You set a price point and got close. You can never anticipate what someone will bid on a pen. And beautiful pens IMHO.

 

[kruzzer]

first let me say WOW and a half on the pens.. I especially like #2. I have to agree with George, I would have thought #2 would have brought more than #1.