Hi everyone, I am wanting to make an ebonite section with a metal ring near the nib, similar to this Pelikan pen. However, the Pelikan pen does not have an ebonite section. I was reading that it's hard to bond ebonite to itself or anything else. Since my fingers will probably be frequently knocking up against the ring, I am concerned that it will pop off over prolonged use. I was wondering if there is any truth to this, and if there is, what adhesives would be good to secure the ring well there. (I found a video that shows how Pelikan does it, and they injection mold plastic around the metal parts so the metal parts stay securely in place. But obviously I can't do that.)
What is a good glue for bonding ebonite to metal?
- Thread starter cjenkins
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Mortalis
Member
When I do a search online for your post heading I get the below info. My browser returns an AI gathered data at the top (I do not know if your does also but worth a try) and it suggests 2 part epoxy.
Online Search
duncsuss
Member
I think the best chance would be to create undercut or angled grooves (as in dovetails) in both pieces and use the strongest two-part epoxy you can find.
Woodchipper
Member
Devcon Two Ton Epoxy...strong as I used it to build golf clubs.
Dieseldoc
Member
Use system Two epoxy
Oh that's an idea, thanks I would have never thought of that on my own!
hooked
Member
Pelikan plates that ring with 24kt gold at the end of the nib to increase corrosion resistance. Depending on the metal used for that placement, you can experience fairly quick corrosion. Many inks are corrosive. They can corrode the epoxy as well as the metal, leading to failure. Make sure your epoxy is fully cured before inking it up.
I built a few pens with a brass piece at the end of the section. I inked one, capped it, and opened it a couple of days later, and noticed that the brass was already turning green on the edges where it had been glued with epoxy. I use System Three T-88 epoxy and realized it wasn't fully cured. Within a few weeks, the whole brass piece turned green and eventually failed.
I built a few pens with a brass piece at the end of the section. I inked one, capped it, and opened it a couple of days later, and noticed that the brass was already turning green on the edges where it had been glued with epoxy. I use System Three T-88 epoxy and realized it wasn't fully cured. Within a few weeks, the whole brass piece turned green and eventually failed.
duncsuss
Member
That's my choice too.
Wow, thank you so much, I had no idea epoxy would fail with prolonged exposure to ink. And I knew that you should never eyedropper a pen with a metal barrel, but holy moly I had no idea the metal corrodes that quickly. Is it possible for any unplated metal to be on the end of the section near the nib then? And I notice on your pens there is a metal band at the end of the section where it meets the body, does condensation from the nib fill the cap and make those prone to corrosion too?
hooked
Member
I have found that brass shows signs of corrosion in that location as well. I believe a lot depends on the ink used. I have read that some inks off-gas more than others. I tend to use only argentium silver or stainless steel under the cap now to prevent tarnish/corrosion. There are brush-on coatings available for applying to brass to prevent corrosion/tarnish, but I haven't tried any.
I feel that in the case I mention is because that epoxy takes 72+ hours to fully cure. I feel the weak point was not allowing that to fully cure, not the breakdown of the epoxy itself with the ink over time. The bond started to turn green in almost no time.
I happen to have one of my untreated brass ring pens in for a cleaning/polish/nib upgrade that I sold just over a year ago. This will give you an indication of what is happening to the brass after about a year of normal use. Blurry, but you can see the discoloration of the brass where it meets the threads. It bothers me to open one of my pens and see this. I hate posting it here, but you learn from your mistakes. I am making the guy a new section with a gold plated ring to go with his new 14k nib.
I feel that in the case I mention is because that epoxy takes 72+ hours to fully cure. I feel the weak point was not allowing that to fully cure, not the breakdown of the epoxy itself with the ink over time. The bond started to turn green in almost no time.
I happen to have one of my untreated brass ring pens in for a cleaning/polish/nib upgrade that I sold just over a year ago. This will give you an indication of what is happening to the brass after about a year of normal use. Blurry, but you can see the discoloration of the brass where it meets the threads. It bothers me to open one of my pens and see this. I hate posting it here, but you learn from your mistakes. I am making the guy a new section with a gold plated ring to go with his new 14k nib.
NJturner
Member
How are you cutting the rings to size for your pens? Are you using the Pepe Tools die and punch set? I'm still trying to decide on a purchase for making rings for the pen body and am still shying away from the cost of the Pepe Tools set, but it seems to be a favorite with many. Trying to decide if I should just bite the bullet and go for it....thanks!
Kevin
hooked
Member
I use the Pepe disc cutter. I still find it fastest and easiest for me. I do use a press and anneal for harder materials.
Wow, corrosion in that location as well. Ah, right, so it was the fact that the epoxy hadn't cured rather than the ink degraded it over time.
And thank you for admitting your mistakes, it helps out everyone in the community. As a beginner doing a lot of research on kitless pens at the moment, the search function in this forum is great, I've learned so much from posts just like this. I'd imagine that others looking to learn things about installing metal rings on their pens would run into this post too, and so you've saved all of us from learning the hard way.
And thank you for admitting your mistakes, it helps out everyone in the community. As a beginner doing a lot of research on kitless pens at the moment, the search function in this forum is great, I've learned so much from posts just like this. I'd imagine that others looking to learn things about installing metal rings on their pens would run into this post too, and so you've saved all of us from learning the hard way.
Wow Mark, thanks for sharing this very valuable information. I am just contemplating adding accent rings to my work and this is good to know.
duncsuss
Member
While we are on the subject of off-gassing ... I destroyed the chrome/rhodium plating on a couple of kit pen sections by fitting the caps too soon after gluing the couplers into the brass tubes with CA. You know that acrid cloud that stings your eyes and burns your sinuses? Turns out that it does it to metal platings too.