Universal BASH Guidelines and Rules

[mbroberg]

Discussion of the rules that apply universally to all BASH Activities.

 

[mbroberg]

Consider the attached to be a starting point. Let me know where to ggo from here with it.......

 

[mredburn]

I think the rules should be published no earlier than Jan 1st
This gives everyone enough time to prepare a pen(6 weeks or more) and debate the rules until Jan 15th. On the 1st of Febuary the offical set in stone rules can be posted in the first thread of the contest that they govern.

On the more than 10 entries let them vote for no more than 5, I like 3 and take the top 5 for the runnoff. Iknow that you cant controll the polls other than 1 r as many as they want but if you choose a number to pick most all of them will follow that guideline. In the past 2 times I have tried this there are usually 3-5 heavily favored entries.

I made the polls a sticky in the Summer extravaganza and that worked really well for finding them.

We have a lot of work to do and when its done having to post all the entries and who did it is a lot of work that isnt neccesary. Posting the winners of the contest with the winning pen pictured and the prize should be enough. One year Landon had 51 entries in one contest and having to post every picture and entrant would be a real pain in the ass along with everything else.

 

[mredburn]

I spoke with Ed Street as some length during last years bash and I finally told him that the Bash competitions should be considered entertainment more than cut throat competition. That the spirit of the competitions was to give the members a reason to make a pen and have fun and join in the party under the guise of competition.

Maybe we need to state this in some manor or other to defray some of the hostilities. We had, and have, members that are anally fixated on the technical aspects of the rules rather than the intent. A simple mission statement on the purpose of the games would seem in order.

 

[D.Oliver]

I think this is a good idea, but I don't think it will stop those type of people from raising a stink.

 

[mbroberg]

I think the rules should be published no earlier than Jan 1st
This gives everyone enough time to prepare a pen(6 weeks or more) and debate the rules until Jan 15th. On the 1st of Febuary the offical set in stone rules can be posted in the first thread of the contest that they govern.

I would not expect anyone to start a pen until they know the rules. The final rules, not the first draft of the rules. One of the complaints I hear over and over again is that people want the rules, which to me means the final rules, posted in January.

On the more than 10 entries let them vote for no more than 5, I like 3 and take the top 5 for the runnoff. Iknow that you cant controll the polls other than 1 r as many as they want but if you choose a number to pick most all of them will follow that guideline. In the past 2 times I have tried this there are usually 3-5 heavily favored entries.

The reality of the situation is, as you state, we cannot "let" them vote for 3 or 5. They can vote for 1 or as many as they want. We might as well accept that fact and write the rules accordingly. So many times I see something posted such as, "I can't pick just one". By letting them vote for as many as they want I think that most will only vote for their 2 -4 favorites. Putting them on the honor system to vote only for a specific amount will not work IMHO. They will vote for what they want anyway so we should write the rules accordingly.

I made the polls a sticky in the Summer extravaganza and that worked really well for finding them.

We have a lot of work to do and when its done having to post all the entries and who did it is a lot of work that isnt neccesary. Posting the winners of the contest with the winning pen pictured and the prize should be enough. One year Landon had 51 entries in one contest and having to post every picture and entrant would be a real pain in the ass along with everything else.

This is where I really tend to tick folks off. It ain't about us, it's about them. Not only do the members want to see the entries, the members who worked hard on their entries deserve some degree of recognition. Posting their entries is the LEAST we can do.

 

[mbroberg]

I spoke with Ed Street as some length during last years bash and I finally told him that the Bash competitions should be considered entertainment more than cut throat competition. That the spirit of the competitions was to give the members a reason to make a pen and have fun and join in the party under the guise of competition.

Maybe we need to state this in some manor or other to defray some of the hostilities. We had, and have, members that are anally fixated on the technical aspects of the rules rather than the intent. A simple mission statement on the purpose of the games would seem in order.

Any cop who has worked the street for more than 10 minutes knows that you cannot argue or carry on a rational conversation with a drunk or a mental case. I don't know if Ed Street drinks or not.

I conversed with Ed also and encouraged him to post his feedback. He did so.

I believe that some of the BS can be eliminated by posting the proposed rules in December and allowing discussion before the rules are finalized in January. Once the rules are finalized there will be no discussion about them.

 

[ed4copies]

I believe that some of the BS can be eliminated by posting the proposed rules in December and allowing discussion before the rules are finalized in January. Once the rules are finalized there will be no discussion about them.
quoting Mike


Mike, I'm afraid this is akin to saying there is no need for courts, the laws are clear!

IF the rules were clear, we would not be offended by those asking questions---the rules were NOT clear, the chairmen made statements that were not fully thought-out and controversy resulted. Even the best chairman needs to define his terms BEFORE the contests, if those definitions are not consistent with standard dictionary defs!!!

Let's try to do this now!

 

[mbroberg]

We are not talking about laws, nor are we acting as a court. This is the IAP Birthday BASH where we only trying to provide folks a p[lace to have some fun. We are not making life and death decisions nor make any interpretations about issues that impact the quality of anyone's life.

I want to provide everyone the opportunity to have their say about the rules and make the points clear well BEFORE the games begin. Once the the issues are raised, the questions asked and the decisions made then the games will begin. Not everyone may like the decisions, but they will know the decisions. I think that is far preferable to attempting to debate the rules AFTER the games begin.

 

[PR_Princess]

I think the rules should be published no earlier than Jan 1st
This gives everyone enough time to prepare a pen(6 weeks or more) and debate the rules until Jan 15th. On the 1st of Febuary the offical set in stone rules can be posted in the first thread of the contest that they govern.

I would not expect anyone to start a pen until they know the rules. The final rules, not the first draft of the rules. One of the complaints I hear over and over again is that people want the rules, which to me means the final rules, posted in January.

I like the idea of posting the final rules starting in early January.... But not for all the contests, all at the same time. I would like to see them stretched out over the course of the month. .....So that the contests that start the first week in Feb, get rules posted the first week in Jan. Second week in Feb contests, rules posted second week in Jan and so on.

Four weeks should not only give the contestants adequate notice, but also help with the ability to schedule the contests more evenly in Feb. ......That would mean less stress on the the chairs that run multi contests (inevitably with polls all ending on the same day) and less stress on that prize guru who gets dumped on at the end of the month. (You are welcome Jeff!!:tongue

 

[ed4copies]

As long as the decisions are stated clearly, and all bases are covered--I could NOT agree more!!!!

(Good luck accomplishing that, however. And YES, I will help as much as possible, I still find it unlikely we will cover every possibility)

 

[mbroberg]

I think the rules should be published no earlier than Jan 1st
This gives everyone enough time to prepare a pen(6 weeks or more) and debate the rules until Jan 15th. On the 1st of Febuary the offical set in stone rules can be posted in the first thread of the contest that they govern.

I would not expect anyone to start a pen until they know the rules. The final rules, not the first draft of the rules. One of the complaints I hear over and over again is that people want the rules, which to me means the final rules, posted in January.

I like the idea of posting the final rules starting in early January.... But not for all the contests, all at the same time. I would like to see them stretched out over the course of the month. .....So that the contests that start the first week in Feb, get rules posted the first week in Jan. Second week in Feb contests, rules posted second week in Jan and so on.

Four weeks should not only give the contestants adequate notice, but also help with the ability to schedule the contests more evenly in Feb. ......That would mean less stress on the the chairs that run multi contests (inevitably with polls all ending on the same day) and less stress on that prize guru who gets dumped on at the end of the month. (You are welcome Jeff!!:tongue

Good idea.

 

[mbroberg]

As long as the decisions are stated clearly, and all bases are covered--I could NOT agree more!!!!

(Good luck accomplishing that, however. And YES, I will help as much as possible, I still find it unlikely we will cover every possibility)

You don't think the timetable I proposed is sufficient?

12/1 - 12/7 (Proposed) Rules posted. Members given until 12/14 to read, question, complain, debate and generally make their feelings known about the rules.

12/15 - 12/21 Planning committee discusses member's questions, complaints, and raised issues concerning the rules and makes necessary and reasonable changes to the rules.

12/22 - 12/31 Christmas Break :tongue:

1/1 - (Final) Rules posted.

I'm not going to worry about covering every possibility, I don't think that will ever be possible. What we are writing has nowhere near the importance and weight of the Constitution of the United States, which is generally agreed to be one of the most brilliant documents ever written. Yet the SOLE purpose of the Supreme Court is to interpret it and they have been doing that for over 200 years. All I am wanting to do is make a good faith effort to address as many of the member's specific issues they may raise about the contest rules as possible. There does come a point when the debates need to end and the participants told that this is the way it is going to be. I propose that point be 1/1/15. All in all I think the majority of the membership will be more accepting of that then they would be of a rule debate or rule change in the middle of the game due to a vocal minority.

If there is abetter way to accomplish running a simple contest without a bunch of outside noise and distractions, please, please, share.

 

[mmyshrall]

If there is abetter way to accomplish running a simple contest without a bunch of outside noise and distractions, please, please, share.

Mike,

This is how other large organizations handle it, so I don't see why we would have problems. You give an opportunity for comment on the first proposal and then publish the final set. Since you are never going to please everyone in a group this size, I won't lose any sleep due to a few members that would beat the horse until just the hoof and hair remain.

As far as the proposed timetable, I am fine with it.

 

[Edgar]

The proposed timetable looks fine to me too. Those who are interested in reading them and possibly offering suggestions will do so - most probably won't, but at least they'll have had the opportunity & no good reason to complain when the final rules are posted.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Comments on Mikes Draft of Universal Bash Guidelines:

PICTURES: The forum limit for JPG files is 1mb (960 x 960 pixels). That may not sound like a lot more than the 800 x 600, but it does make a big difference in the amount of detail you can see. 960 x 960 is what was used in the summer extravaganza rules. It seemed to work ok.

VOTING: If every 10 entries in a contest equals an additional poll , this could get pretty unwieldy. A contest with 36 entries would have 3 qualifier polls and the final poll. That seems a bit much both in terms of the amount of work creating / administering the polls, as well as in retaining the communities interest in lookng at the same group of pens over and over. How about contests with 10 or less entries get one poll. Contests with more than 10 get one preliminary and then a final poll. For the preliminary poll, if the number of entries is 10 to 20 the preliminary poll will cut the field in half. If there are more then 20 entries, the preliminary poll will select the top 10 for final voting.

I'm not sure what you mean by "8. Polls will be conducted within the contest threads". Don't polls have to be their own thread?

I agree that a final thread to display all entries and to display the finish order of those who want to be identified is a good idea. I don't think that people who don't want anyone to know where they finished in the contest should have that information displayed without their consent. There was a huge demand for me to publish the rankings in my contest last year, but some people did not want their information included.

CONTEST ENTRY: Last year it was really cumbersome getting the entries through the entry form. Part of this was probably because I didn't take on the contest in time to get direct access to the entry system. As a contest chair I would much rather get emails directly from the entrants. Rather than waiting for the entry system to do its thing.

RULE MODIFICATION: No matter how hard we work we are unlikely to achieve perfection. I would like to see the contest chairs have the authority to make modification / additions to their contest rules as needed. Submitting the rule modification / additions to the Activity Manager (Mike?) and / or Aministrator (Jeff?) would only be in cases where the chairperson was unable/unwilling to make the modification / addition or the members revolt against the modification / addition.

I would also suggest that only contest entrants are allowed to challenge contest specificrules. If someone has no intent to enter the contest then they should find a better use for their time. Failing to enter a contest after indicating an intent while challenging rules or complaining about the contest should be treated like non-performance for participation in community activities.

Just some thoughts....

Ed

 

[mbroberg]

Comments on Mikes Draft of Universal Bash Guidelines:

PICTURES: The forum limit for JPG files is 1mb (960 x 960 pixels). That may not sound like a lot more than the 800 x 600, but it does make a big difference in the amount of detail you can see. 960 x 960 is what was used in the summer extravaganza rules. It seemed to work ok.

I'm fine with whatever Jeff will allow.

VOTING: If every 10 entries in a contest equals an additional poll , this could get pretty unwieldy. A contest with 36 entries would have 3 qualifier polls and the final poll. That seems a bit much both in terms of the amount of work creating / administering the polls, as well as in retaining the communities interest in lookng at the same group of pens over and over. How about contests with 10 or less entries get one poll. Contests with more than 10 get one preliminary and then a final poll. For the preliminary poll, if the number of entries is 10 to 20 the preliminary poll will cut the field in half. If there are more then 20 entries, the preliminary poll will select the top 10 for final voting.

That would work, need more input from others.

I'm not sure what you mean by "8. Polls will be conducted within the contest threads". Don't polls have to be their own thread?

I worded that incorrectly. It should read within the contest forum. Last year, because of the Forum Runner issue we grouped all the polls into one separate forum. I'd like to avoid that this year. I'd rather have open polls rather than group them like last year. But that is just me and that is an issue for discussion farther down the line.

I agree that a final thread to display all entries and to display the finish order of those who want to be identified is a good idea. I don't think that people who don't want anyone to know where they finished in the contest should have that information displayed without their consent. There was a huge demand for me to publish the rankings in my contest last year, but some people did not want their information included.

I don't think that finishing position of all entries should be shown, I just think the entries should be shown and the makers identified.

CONTEST ENTRY: Last year it was really cumbersome getting the entries through the entry form. Part of this was probably because I didn't take on the contest in time to get direct access to the entry system. As a contest chair I would much rather get emails directly from the entrants. Rather than waiting for the entry system to do its thing.

RULE MODIFICATION: No matter how hard we work we are unlikely to achieve perfection. I would like to see the contest chairs have the authority to make modification / additions to their contest rules as needed. Submitting the rule modification / additions to the Activity Manager (Mike?) and / or Aministrator (Jeff?) would only be in cases where the chairperson was unable/unwilling to make the modification / addition or the members revolt against the modification / addition.

I would also suggest that only contest entrants are allowed to challenge contest specificrules. If someone has no intent to enter the contest then they should find a better use for their time. Failing to enter a contest after indicating an intent while challenging rules or complaining about the contest should be treated like non-performance for participation in community activities.

Just some thoughts....

Ed

I really oppose any rule modifications once the contest has begun. The rules will be thought out, publicly debated and revised as necessary before the contests begin. Once they begin if people don't like the rules they should not enter the contest. Changing the rules in the middle of the game should be avoided at all costs. (IMHO)

 

[PR_Princess]

Comments on Mikes Draft of Universal Bash Guidelines:

PICTURES: The forum limit for JPG files is 1mb (960 x 960 pixels). That may not sound like a lot more than the 800 x 600, but it does make a big difference in the amount of detail you can see. 960 x 960 is what was used in the summer extravaganza rules. It seemed to work ok.

I'm fine with whatever Jeff will allow.

PICTURES: - What do you guys think about using the magnifier?? Here is a link to a thread I saw recently -

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f45/polymer-clay-figures-125569/

Could be pretty cool?

 

[Cmiles1985]

I am in agreement that rules are rules. Everyone has a chance for input, and there should be no changing of them after they have been reviewed and altered once. As for the polls: I agree that people won't want to vote on the same group of pens several times. If there are 36 entries, an initial poll (multiple answer), and reporting the poll with the top 10 for a single vote.

 

[Cmiles1985]

On the issue of identifying entrants that were not winners, I agree. Would it be in order (albeit time consuming) to send each non winning entrant where they placed in the contest along with a percentage of votes that they received. That way, they can ask for feedback if they feel so inclined.

If this is already done, forgive my ignorance.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Posting rules two months early defeats a bit of the building excitement that happens when we start posting in January...it also tends to allow the naysayers the opportunity to begin trashing the rules, contests, and events well in advance...

Best to just create rules, post them, and eschew the entire concept of having members discuss and critique them...if they don't see a contest they like and they want to then create their own contest with different rules, they are welcome to!

Too many regulations and over-complicating the posting of contest rules will just tend to make the Bash too 'formal' and less 'fun'...

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Posting rules two months early defeats a bit of the building excitement that happens when we start posting in January...it also tends to allow the naysayers the opportunity to begin trashing the rules, contests, and events well in advance...

Best to just create rules, post them, and eschew the entire concept of having members discuss and critique them...if they don't see a contest they like and they want to then create their own contest with different rules, they are welcome to!

Too many regulations and over-complicating the posting of contest rules will just tend to make the Bash too 'formal' and less 'fun'...

This makes sense to me. Anybody who wanted to have input to the rules could have volunteered and spent the time here giving that input. To open the door for any old criticism / suggestion at the end of the planning process from those who couldn't be bothered to be part of the process seems like a waste. And at the end of the day you will never make everybody happy. Why jump through hoops to try and accommodate the very few who will always find something to complain about? The vast majority will be happy to participate with whatever the rules are.

Ed

 

[mredburn]

The results of the polls are made public after the voting is over and the poll closes. All they would need to do is to take a look at the final results of the poll to see how they did in relationship to the other pens.

 

[Cmiles1985]

Ok. I couldn't remember if the poll results were posted at the finish or if just the top three were posted.

Thanks!

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I think that if there is 10 or less entrants one round of voting would be fine and if there is more then 2 rounds of voting. I think that the more time we give for voting the less time there is to make the pens. Posting the rules starting early January gives people time to order what they may need but not too much time to have the excitement wear off before the bash starts. When it comes to rules for these contests it's best to keep them as few as possible because after all this it a creative process. I'm not sure getting the masses opinion would be a good idea. It may lead to overcomplicating things. Perhaps the first line of the rules should state the spirit of the contest then have the rules. Also we'll need to really review each others contests rules to catch any sticky points that may not be clear.

 

[jeff]

Comments on Mikes Draft of Universal Bash Guidelines:

PICTURES: The forum limit for JPG files is 1mb (960 x 960 pixels). That may not sound like a lot more than the 800 x 600, but it does make a big difference in the amount of detail you can see. 960 x 960 is what was used in the summer extravaganza rules. It seemed to work ok.

I'm fine with whatever Jeff will allow.

PICTURES: - What do you guys think about using the magnifier?? Here is a link to a thread I saw recently -

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f45/polymer-clay-figures-125569/

Could be pretty cool?

I think the 960 dimension works fine. However, the magnifier function might be the best option. I developed that a couple months ago but I have not publicized it because there are a couple of bugs. What is does is from the "My Photos" pick on the editor window (under the smiles) it allows inserting of an image from the posters photo album into the post as a medium thumbnail with a hover zoom. (Actually there are many choices, but that is the default.)

The idea is to give easy access to the very large images which can be uploaded to the photo album while providing something that is viewable in the post.

We could create a photo album for the bash (one, or one per contest) and use that feature to show the photos in posts. That would have the side benefit of getting all the bash photos into the photo album.

 

[jeff]

I'm generally fine with the rules. I'd like to see a full 2 week comment period if possible.

Can someone enter a pen in one contest, then photograph that same pen and enter it in a photo contest?

 

[Edgar]

I'm generally fine with the rules. I'd like to see a full 2 week comment period if possible.

Can someone enter a pen in one contest, then photograph that same pen and enter it in a photo contest?

I would think that should be ok as long as the contests end at the same time so the entrant wouldn't be identified before a contest ends. If that's not easily workable then we probably should not slow it.

 

[mredburn]

If we allow a photo of a pen that is already submitted in a pen contest, can it be one of the pictures submited to the pen contest or should it be a totally different picture?

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Is the purpose of the photo contest to have people compete on their photo skills or on a combination of pen making and photo skills?

If the competition is just photo skills, then maybe we take the pen out of the equation by having people submit photos to the photo contest of pen blanks instead of pens.

If we want a competition of both pen making and photo skills, then I think we should stick with the "one contest per pen" and "not previously shown" rules. If someone wants to win the photo contest with their pen making skills, then maybe they should make a pen special for the contest.

Ed

 

[Joe S.]

Is the purpose of the photo contest to have people compete on their photo skills or on a combination of pen making and photo skills?

If the competition is just photo skills, then maybe we take the pen out of the equation by having people submit photos to the photo contest of pen blanks instead of pens.

If we want a competition of both pen making and photo skills, then I think we should stick with the "one contest per pen" and "not previously shown" rules. If someone wants to win the photo contest with their pen making skills, then maybe they should make a pen special for the contest.

Ed

I like the pen blank idea. Maybe we could also allow a very specific pen for the photo contest. Only a bushing-to-bushing kit centerband included straight grained maple chrome slimline is allowed. Maybe members could vote on what pen will be used beforehand? The idea would be to have basically the same pen in all the photos, so the focus would be on the photo instead of the pen. The only problems I see are people getting into a fight over what pen to use, and people who ignore or bend the rule to get "pen appeal" over the other entrants.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I'm generally fine with the rules. I'd like to see a full 2 week comment period if possible.

Can someone enter a pen in one contest, then photograph that same pen and enter it in a photo contest?

I would say no to having the same pen in a contest and the photo contest. In general I would say that a pen may be entered in one contest only.
I'm not a photographer, I do like the idea of a pens being the same in the photo contest. Maybe because of the technical side of photography the photo contest may be a good contest to have a panel of judges. It may help eliminate the wow factor of the pens.

 

[Edgar]

I like the blank idea too - if the idea is to judge photo skills, that would take any pen influence out of the equation. I think we could write the rules to make the playing field quite level.

For example, we could require that the photo be of 3 wood pen blanks - one light colored, one dark colored, and one typically figured. The entrant would have to identify the specific blanks he selected then members could judge how well the photo illustrates those particular type of blanks. Lighting, color balance, focus, etc would all be critical to a quality representation of what those blanks "should" look like.

 

[Edgar]

A follow up to my previous post ...

As I noted in that post, if our objective for a photo contest is to strictly judge photographic quality & abilities then we should take pen influence out of the contest somehow & blanks would be one way to do that.

On the other hand, if the objective is to judge the best Pen Marketing Photo as the contest was titled last year, then pen influence is probably appropriate. After all if someone is trying to take high quality photos for marketing purposes, then they probably also are trying to show off high quality pens (or should be) and really should not be penalized for using a better pen in their photos than someone else.

 

[mbroberg]

I think that this is a pen site first. To me the pens and the things we use or do the make the pens rank high on the IAP list. Photography is somewhere below that. Photography is necessary to sell pens on the internet and to show off pens on the IAP, not to make pens. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a photo contest, I'm thinking we should de-emphasize the Marketing component of the photo contests. Just call the contest "Pen Glamor Shots" or something like that.

 

[ed4copies]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but it seems to me that a "pen marketing photo" on a "Pen making site" ought to show a pen.

And, MARKETING includes building a "brand."
So, it would seem intuitive to show a pen and the maker's name. I doubt you could find a marketing photo for Parker or Montblanc or Shaeffer, etc that just showed a pen with no identifier. (Yes, the snow-cap is an identifier, in the absence of other brand identification).

IF we are going to use pen blanks, the marketing photo could be very useful to Exotics or Classic Nib, etc. But it is probably NOT very useful to pen makers.

Just a FWIW, since I don't take part in any of the contests- but it seems logical.

Ed

(I typed this while Mike was posting, but I will leave it alone)

 

[mredburn]

The word "Marketing" needs to go. Glamour Pen Pics, pretty pen pics, Best Pen Photo, what ever but marketing is branding and that word alone caused all our problems last year.

 

[Dale Lynch]

I'll add 2 cents in on this one.In the pen marketing/glamor photo contest they should not be allowed to use a pen they submitted to any of the other active contests.They should have to make one specifically for the photo contest or use one that that they made earlier or has been shown before.

 

[mbroberg]

I'd like to get a consensus on the first four proposed Universal Rules.

1 - 4 are all interrelated. Here is what I believe:

a. There will be complaints about whatever contest rules we come up with.

b. Some of the complaints will be legitimate and rules will have to be corrected. It is important that we make those changes if they are warranted.

c. People will be more accepting of the rules if they believe that they have had a fair opportunity to voice their concerns and know that those concerns have been considered.

d. Excessive debate about the rules or changes to the rules once the BASH begins detracts from the atmosphere we try to create and maintain during the BASH. Additionally, changes to the rules after the contest begins causes frustration to those members who have followed the rules up to that point.

Do you agree or disagree? What other "truths" would you identify?

It has been suggested that we just publish the rules without giving the members any input and telling them that if they don't like the rules, too bad. I don't think that this approach will do much to promote the spirit of community that I think we are striving for on the IAP. I'm not opposed to telling the members that the rules are set in stone and if they don't like them then don't play. I am opposed to doing that without offering them ANY means to voice their concerns first. If we were to do it this way I predict that the focus of some contest threads will shift from the actual contest to a heated debate over what the rules ought to be. I really want to be able to tell anyone who attempts to start such a debate that 1.) Since August I made multiple requests for members to volunteer to participate in the planning of the BASH to which they didn't respond and 2.) they were given ample opportunity to voice their concerns back in December.

It has been suggested that contest chairs have the opportunity to make changes to their contests as they see fit. In my opinion that defeats the purpose of what I have stated above. I do recognize that in some rare case it might be necessary to make a rule change after the BASH begins. In those cases I propose that the decision be left to Jeff and I. We would both have to be in agreement to the change and we can take heat for the change.

Keep in mind that contest chairs will be chosen well before the BASH begins. As soon as the slate of contests are identified we will get chairs for the contests. The chairs will write their rules and they will be discussed by the planning committee. Many of the potential problems will be identified and corrected PRIOR to the rules being released for public scrutiny.

So there is what I want to accomplish and how I want to accomplish it. Please point out the flaws in my reasoning. If my means or my desired end is off center, if you have a better idea of how to accomplish a drama free (or at least drama minimized) BASH in regards to the rules please spell out the why and how.

Thanks for stepping up to plan this party!

 

[ed4copies]

Mike,

As usual, I find your comments above to be "right on the money".

The BASH is for the members. Most assuredly, asking for their input will give them a greater "ownership" of the project. And, if one or two people ask "why" a rule exists, the "Sept-Dec" planning is a GREAT reply.

Good luck, I hope the 11th is the best yet!!
(And I am here to help in any way I can)
Ed