Trouble with a McKenzie Penworks Coyote click…

[bliorg]

Hi, all -

After working initially this McKenzie Coyote click pretty much stopped working. Tip never completely retracts, and only sometimes (infrequently) extends. I am sure I have something incorrectly configured, but not sure what to do. Ideas?

Thanks!

 

[d_bondi]

I know this sounds silly, but do you have the spring in the right direction?

Here is a video that they published on assembly...

 

[TonyL]

Most of mine have worked, but about 2 of 10 jam on me.

 

[bliorg]

I know this sounds silly, but do you have the spring in the right direction?

Here is a video that they published on assembly...

Not silly at all - have done that more than a couple times. Not the case here though. I watched the video (thanks for that - did not know it existed) and he dropped the cartridge in from the top. I was installing it by removing the tip and inserting from there. Don't ask me why. Now it works perfect. Yep - here's my shocked face, lol.

 

[d_bondi]

Not silly at all - have done that more than a couple times. Not the case here though. I watched the video (thanks for that - did not know it existed) and he dropped the cartridge in from the top. I was installing it by removing the tip and inserting from there. Don't ask me why. Now it works perfect. Yep - here's my shocked face, lol.

I'm glad it helped!

 

[alinc100]

I have a different issue, I hope it's ok to post here . I recently put a few Liberty Clicks together and all work great, except the one I've been carrying for a few days. The click mechanism came unscrewed , the cartridge and spring are gone, along with the click mechanism. I don't know if I got soft hands when I assembled it ,or if it had a rough life in my ruler pocket in my jeans. Talked with McKenzie today via chat and the solution I am heading down the road with is a small o-ring at the click mechanism. I had to order a minimum of $10 so I ordered 250 pieces each of 2 sizes. I will report back which one seems to work better, if there is any difference. As a precaution I plan to sit down and wipe the threads with alcohol before assembly. I hesitate to use loctite for fear an end user may experience difficulty. And it may have just been a soft hands issue, as I have not experienced it anywhere else. I will unbox and check six more pens I have assembled right now in the shop. My other issue with McK is the kits are out of stock often, which my wallet /retirement savings may be grateful for

 

[darrin1200]

I have a different issue, I hope it's ok to post here . I recently put a few Liberty Clicks together and all work great, except the one I've been carrying for a few days. The click mechanism came unscrewed , the cartridge and spring are gone, along with the click mechanism. I don't know if I got soft hands when I assembled it ,or if it had a rough life in my ruler pocket in my jeans. Talked with McKenzie today via chat and the solution I am heading down the road with is a small o-ring at the click mechanism. I had to order a minimum of $10 so I ordered 250 pieces each of 2 sizes. I will report back which one seems to work better, if there is any difference. As a precaution I plan to sit down and wipe the threads with alcohol before assembly. I hesitate to use loctite for fear an end user may experience difficulty. And it may have just been a soft hands issue, as I have not experienced it anywhere else. I will unbox and check six more pens I have assembled right now in the shop. My other issue with McK is the kits are out of stock often, which my wallet /retirement savings may be grateful for

If it's not a piece the user "has" to take off, adding a thread locker is ok. Make sure you use blue. Another option that is often used in the pen world, is shellack.
McKenzie is in the process of ramping up a new machinist in his work flow. Hopefully he'll be back up to full stock soon.

 

[Penchant 4]

I have a different issue, I hope it's ok to post here . I recently put a few Liberty Clicks together and all work great, except the one I've been carrying for a few days. The click mechanism came unscrewed , the cartridge and spring are gone, along with the click mechanism. I don't know if I got soft hands when I assembled it ,or if it had a rough life in my ruler pocket in my jeans. Talked with McKenzie today via chat and the solution I am heading down the road with is a small o-ring at the click mechanism. I had to order a minimum of $10 so I ordered 250 pieces each of 2 sizes. I will report back which one seems to work better, if there is any difference. As a precaution I plan to sit down and wipe the threads with alcohol before assembly. I hesitate to use loctite for fear an end user may experience difficulty. And it may have just been a soft hands issue, as I have not experienced it anywhere else. I will unbox and check six more pens I have assembled right now in the shop. My other issue with McK is the kits are out of stock often, which my wallet /retirement savings may be grateful for

I understand that he has had to move production of the components to a different machine shop. That could be a factor in the supply.

 

[bliorg]

Aaaaand... back to not working. Was fine for a few days, now doing the same thing - not retracting, not staying extended. Guess I'll contact McKenzie. Honestly I"m really disappointed. They're absolutely beautiful, and I love supporting a small business/made in America, but these are a stretch for me financially, and I've had nothing but trouble with this, my first kit from them. I have another on the lathe right now; I'm hopeful this one works better.

I will update after I speak with Tim.

 

[hooked]

Have you tried to take the click mechanism from another Coyote kit and screwing it into your pen to check if it is the click mechanism?

I have had a similar action to your click mechanism. There is a very tiny ball bearing that sits inside the click mechanism (SKM-88). It almost looks as though the little tiny ball bearing is missing or has come out of the channel it sits in. If you decide to investigate this, be very careful. The little ball falls out very easily and will never be found if dropped.

You can see the ball in my top example, missing from the bottom.

Here is a discussion about it:

Schmidt SKM-88 Disassembled

Hi, I have gotten to know the SKM-88 quite well and thought I'd share some photos of one disassembled. I have taken it apart at least a dozen times using just my fingernails to press off the C-clip, and press it back into place. I have not found disassembly or reassembly difficult and the tiny...

www.penturners.org

 

[bliorg]

Have you tried to take the click mechanism from another Coyote kit and screwing it into your pen to check if it is the click mechanism?

I have had a similar action to your click mechanism. There is a very tiny ball bearing that sits inside the click mechanism (SKM-88). It almost looks as though the little tiny ball bearing is missing or has come out of the channel it sits in. If you decide to investigate this, be very careful. The little ball falls out very easily and will never be found if dropped.

You can see the ball in my top example, missing from the bottom.

View attachment 384895


Here is a discussion about it:

Schmidt SKM-88 Disassembled

Hi, I have gotten to know the SKM-88 quite well and thought I'd share some photos of one disassembled. I have taken it apart at least a dozen times using just my fingernails to press off the C-clip, and press it back into place. I have not found disassembly or reassembly difficult and the tiny...

www.penturners.org

Thanks for posting this. I put together another one of these pens last night, and it works perfectly. I'm finding now, though, that the holly one, when shaken up and down, rattles, and the click end moves up and down about 1/8" - 3/16" or so. So I suspect this (ball slipped or gone) is exactly what's wrong. Will be taking it apart today to find out. Also, I messaged Tim McKenzie through the form on his website a week ago; I know it was a holiday weekend, but I haven't heard from him about this yet, which honestly I'm kind of surprised about. I suspect, with the info from the above link, I'll have this sussed out before I hear from him anyway.

 

[alinc100]

I would recommend ,if you plan to take the mechanism apart , do it inside a ziploc bag. Its a trick we use when disassembling a ratchet, springs, balls, little parts.
As a side note /update I've got some o-rings on order, first ones were too big, second order too small. I'm hoping 3rd time is a charm and they are just right. The too small o-rings do atleast in my opinion, which may be wishful thinking provide just a touch of resistance, which is all it really needs to do. I've just been ordering small batches to see what actually works best. Purple or Green locktite is always an option on the shelf.

 

[bliorg]

Good idea. I've been taking apart leaf shutters on cameras for 20 years and, while I'm used to tiny parts, I've lost WAY more than my share. Bag's a great idea - thanks. I'll be interested in how the smaller o-rings work. I'm hoping to start selling soon, and I'd really like to use the McKenzie kits in general.

 

[bliorg]

I would recommend ,if you plan to take the mechanism apart , do it inside a ziploc bag. Its a trick we use when disassembling a ratchet, springs, balls, little parts.
As a side note /update I've got some o-rings on order, first ones were too big, second order too small. I'm hoping 3rd time is a charm and they are just right. The too small o-rings do atleast in my opinion, which may be wishful thinking provide just a touch of resistance, which is all it really needs to do. I've just been ordering small batches to see what actually works best. Purple or Green locktite is always an option on the shelf.

Yeah, definitely let me know on the o-ring, the second mech (on the Claro pen I posted about) just crapped out. Super annoyed. I really want to love these, but for the cost? Not feeling it.

 

[alinc100]

Yeah, definitely let me know on the o-ring, the second mech (on the Claro pen I posted about) just crapped out. Super annoyed. I really want to love these, but for the cost? Not feeling it.

Are you saying the Schmidt clicker malfunctioned again? As of yet I've not had any issue with the Schmidt clicker malfunctioning other than the one that vibrated loose and is lost in space. A 5 pack of spares from Exotic Blanks fixed that. Secretly I just order from Exotics to get the m&m's. As an aside to my o-ring saga a package of o-rings was supposed to be delivered today, instead I got a women's tshirt size large, in black with a graphic on it. Can't say what the graphic is as I don't want to open/unfold it, but it prolongs my research.

 

[darrin1200]

Yeah, definitely let me know on the o-ring, the second mech (on the Claro pen I posted about) just crapped out. Super annoyed. I really want to love these, but for the cost? Not feeling it.

Definitely get a hold of Tim. Hearing about a problem with this mech is rare, but two in the same batch is cause for a call.

 

[McKenzie Penworks]

Howdy! Thought I replied to the one email I saw about this but the danger of being a one man band is that sometimes you miss stuff.

While it's possible for the mech itself to be faulty, it doesn't happen often. In the thousands of these we've sold I've had maybe 1-2 where it was the click mech itself.

The achilles heel of the Schmidt design is the length of the tube. I, unfortunately, went exactly by the length given to me by our machinist when we designed it and I ordered the tubes. As a result it's basically the exact right length if it's not trimmed at all. Trimming into the brass even a little will potentially cause the mechanism to be slightly less than reliable. Our next batch of tubes is going to add .1-.2mm to the length which may not sound like much but in my experience should make a big difference.

Good news is... it's pretty easy to resolve. Take the mechanism out of the pen and just touch the end of the small post to your sander for a second. Don't remove too much material, just a tiny bit. Then put it back together and test it out. Repeat if needed.

I'll dig through my emails again and get back to you there but pretty much 99% of the troubles we've seen with the Coyote Click is this. Learned from that when we added the Liberty click and gave it a bit more wiggle room for trimming. Also, if for some reason you end up screwing up the mech just let me know and we'll get ya one.

Oh side note... Andy's idea for the oring to keep things tight is a good one. We've been chatting on the website chat function and I think he found a size that works well if you don't want to use something like blue loctite. Incidentally, you can always reach out through that and it'll message me on my phone.

 

[bliorg]

Howdy! Thought I replied to the one email I saw about this but the danger of being a one man band is that sometimes you miss stuff.

While it's possible for the mech itself to be faulty, it doesn't happen often. In the thousands of these we've sold I've had maybe 1-2 where it was the click mech itself.

The achilles heel of the Schmidt design is the length of the tube. I, unfortunately, went exactly by the length given to me by our machinist when we designed it and I ordered the tubes. As a result it's basically the exact right length if it's not trimmed at all. Trimming into the brass even a little will potentially cause the mechanism to be slightly less than reliable. Our next batch of tubes is going to add .1-.2mm to the length which may not sound like much but in my experience should make a big difference.

Good news is... it's pretty easy to resolve. Take the mechanism out of the pen and just touch the end of the small post to your sander for a second. Don't remove too much material, just a tiny bit. Then put it back together and test it out. Repeat if needed.

I'll dig through my emails again and get back to you there but pretty much 99% of the troubles we've seen with the Coyote Click is this. Learned from that when we added the Liberty click and gave it a bit more wiggle room for trimming. Also, if for some reason you end up screwing up the mech just let me know and we'll get ya one.

Oh side note... Andy's idea for the oring to keep things tight is a good one. We've been chatting on the website chat function and I think he found a size that works well if you don't want to use something like blue loctite. Incidentally, you can always reach out through that and it'll message me on my phone.

Thanks for the reply! Also got the email; appreciate it. Good to hear the problem and solution. Both these blanks were cut a bit long, so I have no doubt the trimmer clipped the brass, even if just slightly. Will give this a go tonight and see if that fixes the issue.

 

[alinc100]

I got a batch of o-rings in today and the 1mm(cross section) x 5mm ID x 7mm OD work like a charm. 50 of them available on Amazon for about $9. I'm sure there are other vendors ,and now that I have a size that works I can shop for volume/price/etc.