Start Casting

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
I have an interest in starting to cast with Alumilite. I have skimmed through the library and unless I missed it (which very well could have) I did not see anything on that subject.

Where can I find information on that subject matter. Like what pot is best how to setup the ppt. Making of the molds. And how to us use Alumilite. I have watched some videos, which make it look pretty simple but I am sure there is more then meets the eye.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,229
Location
Millersburg, OR
It really isn't that difficult. For round molds I use plastic pipe and for square I use Cutting board cut to size held together with tape. I would start with clear because it has more open time before it starts to set up.
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Thanks for the information, I will check out the videos.

Any advise on a pot? Would you trust a used one?
 

traderdon55

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
600
Location
New Boston, Texas, USA.
Thanks for the information, I will check out the videos.

Any advise on a pot? Would you trust a used one?

A lot of people, me included have made one from a Harbor Freight paint pot. In my opinion a used name brand pot would be better than the Harbor Freight pot. A found a Binks pot at garage sale and as soon as I find a new seal for it that is what I will be using.
 

Marko50

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
938
Location
Orem, UT
Pressure Pot

Thanks for the information, I will check out the videos.

Any advise on a pot? Would you trust a used one?

Used is fine, as long as it has been ASME certified. (IMHO)

I bought mine used on Ebay for about $60.00. I had to search and be patient, but in the end it was worth it. The pressure rating is 125psi, so I don't worry when I use higher pressures.

Stay away from anything that's "made in China", i.e., Harbor Freight. You put your life at risk every time you pressure up the cheapo Chinese pots. Sure, you'll save some money but is two or three hundred bucks worth your life? Make sure that its ASME Certified. You can't go wrong with a Binks, LeGrange, DeVilbiss, Graco, C.A. Technologies, etc.
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Information on the pot is very helpful. I have watching Ebay so now (the hard part) I must learn patience.

The videos I have watched showed using 60# but mention that Alumilite recommends 75#. So I am guessing 60# is ok to use and by getting a 125# rated pot that adds a big cushion for safety. Like in electronics double the rating needed for safety.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
5
Location
Conway NC
Question for The Casters

Not counting equipment what is the cost per pen blank to cast it yourself?

My reasoning I am considering starting to cast but how quickly I get into it depends on the cost savings per blank.

Thanks
 

CrimsonKeel

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
495
Location
Royal oak, MI
Not counting equipment what is the cost per pen blank to cast it yourself?

My reasoning I am considering starting to cast but how quickly I get into it depends on the cost savings per blank.

Thanks

this really depends on how you source your materials and what you are using.
With coupon I can buy a 32 oz can at micheals for around 17 bucks. castings are approximately 2 oz so 16 casts per can. then figure in colorants and micas, activators, errors blanks etc. I'd say a good caster who buys bulk products and rarely wastes a blank gets each one under a dollar. some people may be up in the 2.50 range
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Chinese Pot

Went back and read it again and I am not sure if you would call them modifications, or adjustments. But it does appear that was the cause of the failure. Something to think about, don't watch those kind of pots boil, at least up close.

When I put mine together I am going to take a look and see if there is a way to install a safety chain or latch.
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,915
Location
Georgia
With the help of some very good folks of IAP, I just modified the HF pot for my friend and it now works great. In fact, I may build one for myself. I was on the phone with Alumilite 3x today (poor Carol of Alumilite :)) and they/she gave me good advice, and directed me to the Curtis videos. Last night, I built a mold with my friend and that was interesting. According to AL, they recommend the #2 mold making product. My Hobby Lobby only had number 3. According to AL, Quick Set is not strong enough for pen blanks molds (that is what we had and used), #3 is stronger and yields more molding material, and #2 is the strongest and has the same higher yield as #3. I did question the logic of their numbering system, but learned there was none. LOL

Last, and certainly not least, I must have pestered a half dozen IAP members 3 to 2 dozen times each and benefited from their advice. I had no interest until I saw my friend doing it. I like the PR, but not the stink. Send me a PM if you want to talk about what I learned which has been summarized above. My typing stinks and is slow.

Good luck!
 

Marko50

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
938
Location
Orem, UT
The "Cumulative effect"

Went back and read it again and I am not sure if you would call them modifications, or adjustments. But it does appear that was the cause of the failure. Something to think about, don't watch those kind of pots boil, at least up close.

When I put mine together I am going to take a look and see if there is a way to install a safety chain or latch.

John,
In my experience as a pilot, the cumulative effect of pressurizing a metal tube (read; aircraft cabin) will, over time, weaken even the best of welds. Sooner or later the "tube" or pressure pot WILL fail. When that happens, hopefully you're a good 100 feet away from the ensuing shrapnel field! All pressurized aircraft have a "cycle life span". When that is reached, the aircraft is retired. Period. No questions asked. It goes without saying that a Chinese made pressure pot is going to experience "metal fatigue" sooner rather than later. Don't gamble with your life, especially if you have family counting on you. Just my .02¢
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
You can find Mesquite Man's (Curtis') tutorials for making a mold and a mold rack (to hold the mold in the pressure pot) on his web site with these links:

Making a Mold

Rack Plan

Couple of personal opinions on those tutorials:

- the cutting boards I'm finding locally these days are thinner than Curtis found when he made that tutorial. TAP Plastics has the thicker stuff. Using the thinner material is likely to cause the screws to stretch/bulge the plastic and those bulges will show up in your castings. Mostly, they'll be in areas that you'll turn away but if you're trying to sell your castings, those might detract.

- his mold plan makes a large block (two blanks thick by five blanks wide, ten blanks total). That's a lot of resin used/wasted when you're new and trying to figure out how much dye is required to get the colors you want or how to swirl the colors to get cool effects. It's worth also making a narrower mold (2 or 3 blanks wide) and filling it only half way for your first few batches...

- the mold rack is overly complex. Odds are, you'll only put one mold at a time into the pot, so a two-layer rack with folding handle isn't realistic. Skip the middle layer, put the top horizontal (thin) piece lower, and just put a solid piece straight across the top where the pivots currently mount. It'll go together far faster, will work just fine, and you can skip the fancy pivoting parts.


Casters don't seem eager to post recipes for various colors/effects. Expect to experiment to find what works for you...take lots of notes!

When you're working with small batches, and want to scale the results to a larger batch (using Curtis' full-sized mold), make sure you scale up the amount of dye used as well.

Doubling the amount of resin requires doubling the amount of dye to keep the colors the same. Seems obvious, but when you're experimenting with overcoming the effect of the white Alumilite, and you think you know what the final amount of dye will be so you think you're also ready to step up to a full sized batch...make sure you scale properly.

It's easy to double the resin and the dye without catching that you wanted a darker color so you might have to triple the dye while doubling the resin when working with the white stuff.

The white Alumilite is clear until it goes off. So, colors look great during mix, but come out considerably lighter when the resin goes off.

The clear Alumilite looks great with mica powders and metallic powders! Doesn't take a lot of powder though you should expect to experiment a bit there as well...

If you make a smaller mold, expect to have to figure out how much resin you should mix...a couple trials blocks should get you what you want fairly quickly.

Make sure the screws in your new molds are TIGHT. Yes, this seems obvious, but you may be very surprised at how quickly the resin can leak out if you have a screw loose. :biggrin:
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
Information on the pot is very helpful. I have watching Ebay so now (the hard part) I must learn patience.

The videos I have watched showed using 60# but mention that Alumilite recommends 75#. So I am guessing 60# is ok to use and by getting a 125# rated pot that adds a big cushion for safety. Like in electronics double the rating needed for safety.

Binks pots are individually tested and certified to 80 PSI. I cast white and clear at 70 PSI which should be higher than actually needed and still has a reasonable safety margin.
 

scjohnson243

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2014
Messages
139
Location
Fort Smith, Arkansas
Tim - I'm looking at that tutorial (Mold Making) and curious about what a "Soft white cutting" board is...

I dont know if I have ever seen one of those... I was thinking of trying one of those baking sheet liners since I know they are made of silicone (Like This

Do you think this would work?
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Thanks to everyone for the advise and the information, I am making extensive notes and trying to take this all in.

My bride and I are very interested in casting and are just getting into the early planning stages, gathering information so again thanks.

In the library there are instructions on making a pressure/vacuum pot from a HF pot. Has anyone other then the author constructed this particular pot?
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,915
Location
Georgia
Many have.....and I just did for a friend of mine last week. My typing stinks, PM me your number and I will tell you what I did. I will also tell you that many do not consider it the safest "tool" in the world - even after many years of problem-free use. I will probably make myself one next week. I did replace some of the "weaker" components with ostensibly more reliable ones. I still wouldn't place my face over it, nor pressurize it over 60lbs. In fact, I bought a safety valve from Amazon rated at 60. Many of the ones in Lowes./D are rated at 115 or higher. Some casters remove the safety all together (I am not suggesting that or saying that those that do are wrong) You can choose to add what I think I learned to your body of knowledge or just disregard. I did get some incredibly good advice from several selfless and patient members. FWIW. Tony. I wil be around until 1:30pm if you want to call me.
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Tony thanks for the offer to help on the phone, when time get's closer I may take you up on that. I plan on getting a closer look at the HF model this weekend. There is a HF store just down the road.

What I like about that particular design is the capability to use vacuum for the stabilization process as well.
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,915
Location
Georgia
Sounds good. There are a lot more experienced and brighter folks than me on here. It's just fresh in my mind. I have no idea about the vacuum functionality. Enjoy the research!
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Just read the thread on the exploding Chinese Pot, yeah think I will stick to the good ole MADE IN USA!

I read that thread and the guy modified the pot lid where the screws attached in a IMO shoddy way. the pot didn't fail the modifications DID.

I am THAT guy and I assure you, I do NOT do ANYTHING at all shoddy. Maybe a poor choice of words in your post but that particular word offends me! :)
 
Last edited:

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
My comments in red:

You can find Mesquite Man's (Curtis') tutorials for making a mold and a mold rack (to hold the mold in the pressure pot) on his web site with these links:

Making a Mold

Rack Plan

Couple of personal opinions on those tutorials:

- the cutting boards I'm finding locally these days are thinner than Curtis found when he made that tutorial. TAP Plastics has the thicker stuff. Using the thinner material is likely to cause the screws to stretch/bulge the plastic and those bulges will show up in your castings. Mostly, they'll be in areas that you'll turn away but if you're trying to sell your castings, those might detract.

If you have a Sam's Club, that is the best source for the cutting boards. They are also the very cheapest source for 1/2" HDPE that I have found. I have a wholesale account with a plastics supplier for my business. I priced buying 4x8 sheets of 1/2" HDPE just like the cutting boards. I broke down the pricing to the square inch and found the cutting boards from Sams to be cheaper!

- his mold plan makes a large block (two blanks thick by five blanks wide, ten blanks total). That's a lot of resin used/wasted when you're new and trying to figure out how much dye is required to get the colors you want or how to swirl the colors to get cool effects. It's worth also making a narrower mold (2 or 3 blanks wide) and filling it only half way for your first few batches...

The molds I give the plan for are designed to make 5 blanks, not 10. I always make my molds deeper than needed and suggest everyone do the same. Makes it MUCH easier to handle the filled molds if the resin level is not close to the top.

- the mold rack is overly complex. Odds are, you'll only put one mold at a time into the pot, so a two-layer rack with folding handle isn't realistic. Skip the middle layer, put the top horizontal (thin) piece lower, and just put a solid piece straight across the top where the pivots currently mount. It'll go together far faster, will work just fine, and you can skip the fancy pivoting parts.

I do my racks much different now and agree those are more complete than necessary! I also only do one shelf rather than two. It was fun engineering those at the time and doing the plans though!


Casters don't seem eager to post recipes for various colors/effects. Expect to experiment to find what works for you...take lots of notes!

When you're working with small batches, and want to scale the results to a larger batch (using Curtis' full-sized mold), make sure you scale up the amount of dye used as well.

Doubling the amount of resin requires doubling the amount of dye to keep the colors the same. Seems obvious, but when you're experimenting with overcoming the effect of the white Alumilite, and you think you know what the final amount of dye will be so you think you're also ready to step up to a full sized batch...make sure you scale properly.

It's easy to double the resin and the dye without catching that you wanted a darker color so you might have to triple the dye while doubling the resin when working with the white stuff.

The white Alumilite is clear until it goes off. So, colors look great during mix, but come out considerably lighter when the resin goes off.

The clear Alumilite looks great with mica powders and metallic powders! Doesn't take a lot of powder though you should expect to experiment a bit there as well...

If you make a smaller mold, expect to have to figure out how much resin you should mix...a couple trials blocks should get you what you want fairly quickly.

Or simply multiply length x width x height x .554 and that will tell you pretty close how much resin you need to fill that space.


Make sure the screws in your new molds are TIGHT. Yes, this seems obvious, but you may be very surprised at how quickly the resin can leak out if you have a screw loose. :biggrin:
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Tony thanks for the offer to help on the phone, when time get's closer I may take you up on that. I plan on getting a closer look at the HF model this weekend. There is a HF store just down the road.

What I like about that particular design is the capability to use vacuum for the stabilization process as well.

Using a pressure pot to stabilize with vacuum is like trying to paint with your eyes closed! You need to be able to see what is going on in the wood when stabilizing and at minimum, need a clear lid on your pot. I would suggest making your pot as simple as possible. No need to rube goldberg it. Have a way to get the air in, and valve to cut off the air flow and hold pressure, and a way to release the pressure.

I have 4 pressure pots. All of them have a gauge on them in one of the ports and the other port has a valve and a male quick connect. NOTHING else. Ditch the regulator as yo will be regulating the pressure yourself. Make it simple and you will have less problems with leaks. This is based on casting with pressure and specifically Alumilite for 8 years and thousands of blanks!
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
The bottom line on what kind of pot to buy...every time you air up a pressure pot, you are creating a potential bomb in your shop. Would you rather save a few hundred bucks and bet on Chinese quality control with their lack of any kind of certification or put your faith in American quality control and independent ASME certification that it will hold up to what you need? My insurance deductible for an ER visit if that Chinese bomb blows up is WAY more than the difference in cost!!
 
Last edited:

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,915
Location
Georgia
Watched several of your o/s videos today Curtis...thank you for producing. I just made some of the Alumilite Clear (not Water-clear) with the Pearl-X after following your instruction. They are in my friend's pot now .

I have been looking for a USA pot and have not had any luck. I will Google around some more.

Thanks again!
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
Tim - I'm looking at that tutorial (Mold Making) and curious about what a "Soft white cutting" board is...

I dont know if I have ever seen one of those... I was thinking of trying one of those baking sheet liners since I know they are made of silicone (Like This

Do you think this would work?

I would expect that cookie sheet liner to be far too thin. Curtis' plans were designed for 1/2" thick material. The most recent plastic cutting boards I've seen are 3/8" thick which, for me at least, tends to bulge when the screws are inserted (despite pre-drilling holes for the screws).

It's important to get SLICK/SMOOTH surfaces on whatever material you use. I've seen plenty of cutting boards that are textured...pouring liquid resin into that will pick up all that texture (and won't want to come out anywhere near as easily as it does from the smooth-sided stuff that Curtis' plans call for).

You can use other materials...just make sure they're well covered in mold release before pouring in your just-mixed resin. The beauty of the cutting boards is that they won't absorb the resin and the resin doesn't stick well to the smooth surface (especially with a bit of mold release sprayed on before pouring in the resin).

TAP Plastic sells UMHW (ultra-high molecular weight) plastic that works fine...or you might find an older/thicker cutting board at Goodwill.
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
Thanks to everyone for the advise and the information, I am making extensive notes and trying to take this all in.

My bride and I are very interested in casting and are just getting into the early planning stages, gathering information so again thanks.

In the library there are instructions on making a pressure/vacuum pot from a HF pot. Has anyone other then the author constructed this particular pot?

I did - sort of. Two major changes:

1 - I have a vacuum chamber so I skipped the mods to the pressure pot that would've let it serve as a vacuum chamber.

2 - I have the Binks pot instead of the Harbor Freight so there were some differences in what my pot came with, what fittings it needed, how the pipe under the lid removes, which fittings I needed, etc.
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
It's important to get SLICK/SMOOTH surfaces on whatever material you use. I've seen plenty of cutting boards that are textured...pouring liquid resin into that will pick up all that texture (and won't want to come out anywhere near as easily as it does from the smooth-sided stuff that Curtis' plans call for).

Actually, there is NO need for slick/smooth surfaces on cutting board molds. I use the material from Sam's and it has the typical texture and works absolutely fine and releases just fine. The texture will not hinder demolding in any way, shape, or form.
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
I cut out most of the earlier note trying to get to just the key points (my posts tend to be long-winded already so I'm hoping this helps). I left Curtis' comments in the red he used when replying to my earlier post. Non-red text is my reply this time around.


First, thank you for the responses, Curtis. I appreciate you sharing your expertise and experience!

If you have a Sam's Club, that is the best source for the cutting boards. They are also the very cheapest source for 1/2" HDPE that I have found. I have a wholesale account with a plastics supplier for my business. I priced buying 4x8 sheets of 1/2" HDPE just like the cutting boards. I broke down the pricing to the square inch and found the cutting boards from Sams to be cheaper!


The closest Sam's Club is over an hour away. I've looked at Costco (competitor that's prevalent in my area) but can't find similar cutting boards.

I could track down a Sam's Club while on a road trip, but without having one close enough to home to warrant being a member, they'll tack on an extra 10%. So, I'm most likely going to stick with what I can get from TAP as ultimately I hope to only need to make a couple more molds before dialing in what I want.


The molds I give the plan for are designed to make 5 blanks, not 10. I always make my molds deeper than needed and suggest everyone do the same. Makes it MUCH easier to handle the filled molds if the resin level is not close to the top.

Thank you for clarifying. It looked tall enough for making blocks 2 blanks thick (plus room for a saw kerf in between).

Most of what I've cast so far has been only 1 blank thick, sometimes a bit over. That's mostly due to me trying to minimize how much resin I use during the early parts of the learning curve.

The best swirling I've come up with so far has been towards the center (vertically and horizontally) so 2x thick blocks have come out better for me.

I'm certain I'm not swirling "properly" and have some experiments planned to try to refine that part of the process. Mostly I've focused so far on getting various colors I want.



I do my racks much different now and agree those are more complete than necessary! I also only do one shelf rather than two. It was fun engineering those at the time and doing the plans though!


It's a cool design. I ended up being impatient while assembling my first one and it dawned on me that seeing how you used the rack in your videos meant I could simplify the design a bit.



Or simply multiply length x width x height x .554 and that will tell you pretty close how much resin you need to fill that space.


I noticed roughly that info in Alumilite's volume calculation page a day or so ago but hadn't tried it yet.

Thanks again for the earlier responses.
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
It's important to get SLICK/SMOOTH surfaces on whatever material you use. I've seen plenty of cutting boards that are textured...pouring liquid resin into that will pick up all that texture (and won't want to come out anywhere near as easily as it does from the smooth-sided stuff that Curtis' plans call for).

Actually, there is NO need for slick/smooth surfaces on cutting board molds. I use the material from Sam's and it has the typical texture and works absolutely fine and releases just fine. The texture will not hinder demolding in any way, shape, or form.

I stand corrected (and pleasantly surprised). The texture looked like a nightmare to demold without loosening more than just a single end.
 
Last edited:

Marko50

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
938
Location
Orem, UT
I have a glass vacuum chamber and Air Conditioning vacuum pump for stabilization. Will this work for casting Alumilite also?

From what I understand in the vacuum process, it creates a ton of bubbles. That would not be very conducive to a bubble free Alumilite blank. I would imagine that pressure is your best bet when casting and vacuum is the way to go when stabilizing. Just my .02¢
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Ok like I mentioned in an earlier reply. I appreciated all the information, and that now that I had the info. All I needed was the patience to wait for a good pot to turn up on ebay and the like.

Well that did not happen purchased and HF pot and Vacuum pump last weekend and plan on building the one the Steve described in the library.

I Downloaded the plans for the rack and the mold from Curtis and hopefully I will ready to go in a couple of weeks.

Now I realize that this will not be my last question but my next question is.

Other then the manufacture, is there another place to purchase Alumilite ?

And what is a good starting point "clear" or "white" and other then the basic colors for the dye. What is recommended?
 

TimS124

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
735
Location
Asheville, NC
<snip...>

And what is a good starting point "clear" or "white" and other then the basic colors for the dye. What is recommended?

Mold release!

Clear gives you a longer open time. If you dawdle while casting the white stuff, it can go off in your mixing cup.

If it's warm in your shop, the open time will be shorter. White's open time is pretty short to start with so if you're not ready to go with every step, you'll appreciate the clear stuff's slightly longer open time.

You can also get smaller bottles of Alumilite to start with. Instead of jumping to the gallon size of one or the other, order the 16 or 32 oz size of both and compare for yourself.

For the clear, in addition to the regular colors, you can get fluorescent dyes from Alumilite, mica (pearl) powders, and metallic powders.

What are you hoping to accomplish with your castings? Wild color combinations? Embedded stuff? Stamps? Tiny pine cones? Legos? Worthless woods?

Amazon has the 32oz Clear for $2 more than ordering directly from Alumilite...but if you're a Prime member, you get free shipping through Amazon. So, it's probably cheaper when in factor in shipping to get it through Amazon.

The metallic powders through Amazon are double the price of ordering directly from Alumilite.

It pays to shop around once you've figured out what you want to start with...
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Alumilite

What I want to try is work with embedded stuff. Stamps, photos and other items. Plus work to reclaim useless wood, through casting or stabilization.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
After reading you post about the pressure pot for vacuum chamber, and watching a video on stabilization. With out a doubt you need a clear tank. So that takes care of that for the pot doing double duty.

That being said, I do like to build my stuff when I can. Curtis no indifference to your chambers, I saw them at SWAT last year.

In building my own what would you consider to be the minimum wall thickness for the glass for a vacuum chamber? Also I would guess that if using a glass tank a glass lid is not needed.
 
Top Bottom