Stabilizing pen blanks

[wdcav1952]

Lee,
Just curious, since you mentioned vacuum. How do you apply vacuum to the solution? I had, shall we say, almost scary results when I heated the Minwax wood treatment and it boiled over. (Outside, no open flame!) I refilled and heated it less then sealed the bottle like home canning with a mason jar. My results were not very good. I am trying the plexiglass solution, but am interested in the vacuum idea.

Thank you, William

 

[leenollie]

Good morning William,

I set up a vacuum chamber box and placed the pint can of polyurethane with the wood blanks within it. I have a gauge / shutoff valve setup that allows the box to maintain about 20-inches of vacuum within indefinitely. I started with a glass jar that originally held a desiccant that was shipped from the manufacturer vacuum sealed. The box I use now was made by the company my uncle works at and has been used there for many years. I'm going to tube and turn the blanks tonight and see if my experiment worked. Wish me luck.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[wdcav1952]

Lee, Any chance you could show us some pictures or write up a tutorial for your process? It sounds interesting. I am going to turn some extremely dry crotch mahogany that I soaked for a week in the acetone/plexiglass solution tonight, and am eager to see how it turns out. I didn't notice as much weight increase as I had hoped for, though.

William

 

[leenollie]

William, I will put together something tonight and put it under the "Tips" forum after I turn the pieces I have already prepared. I will also take the pictures using my jar canister because the box does has only a very small window and very little lighting. I think the jar will give a better view of what happens.

Lee
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[wdcav1952]

Thanks Lee, Good Luck!

William

 

[leenollie]

Good afternoon all,

I was reading the responses to my post under the "Show off your pens" forum, and Scott thought that my idea might make a good article. I sent him what I had. He emailed me back saying that he liked what he saw, made 2 adjustments to the flow, and sent the revised version back to me as well as to Jeff so that he could upload it. I am very excited to be published. Thanks for the help, Scott and Jeff.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[jeff]

I hope to get the article up as part of the new site layout. Look for it this weekend! Lee, thank you very much for taking the time to document your work so nicely.

 

[wdcav1952]

Jeff and Lee,
Be assured I will be glued to the site (Not CA) this weekend. I am looking forward to this tutorial. Congratulations, Lee, should we ask for your autograph now, before you start to charge for it?!
William

 

[leenollie]

Sure, I can give you my autograph, but my autograph and $1.89 will buy you one gallon of unleaded gas. [] Thanks for the compliment.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious (and soon to be published) pen turner [8D]

 

[leenollie]

Well, I turned some more stabilized Spalted Pecan last night. After the blanks sunk from the vacuum treatment, I left them in the can for 36 hours and let them dry for 48 hours again. They turned really well - I only had to make one very small patch, more of a preventative step. Unfortunately, the piece did blow up after all. Upon inspection, I found that the blank did not adhere well to the tube - no glue was present. Oh well, regardless of how well one prepares, Murphy still makes his law known.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner [B)]

 

[Evan]

Thanks for the nice article Lee. Need to try this out with some of the spalted blanks in the future.

Evan

 

[leenollie]

Good morning all,

I got a request from Tim Daleiden for more information concerning the physical setup for my vacuum chamber. Well, here it is:

As stated in the tutorial, the chamber is a one-gallon pickle jar. The vacuum gauge is one that was given to me by my uncle, which he had gotten from work. He was the one who also gave me the vacuum pump. I'm pretty sure that they are available from any good hardware store. If not, they should know where they could be gotten.

The toggle needle valve is one I scrounged from work. Any good sealing valve (needle, toggle, ball, etc.) should work in this situation. It is important, though, to attach the valve to the chamber with the flow going outward. These types of valves can be gotten from a reliable hardware store. The black iron fittings are 1/4-inch black pipe and I used Teflon tape on the pipe threads.

I hope this answers some of your questions, everyone. If not, please feel free to let me know and I will try to answer them as best I can.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[leenollie]

Oops, I'd like to make a correction. In my tutorial, I said that I used a one pint can of polyurethane. I just looked at the can again (I'm still using it.) It is a 1/2 pint can. Sorry for the mixup, everyone.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[wayneis]

If anyone still wants to buy Nelsonite I heard about a company that sells it, The company, cue components, sells everything a person needs to make pool cues. Not only do they sell Nelsonite but all of the woods that they sell and use is treated with it. It sells for $12.95 per Qt and $49.95 Gal. I ordered a Qt myself along with a few other assorted things. I could not resist their wood and ordered a nice piece of amboyna burl. I like how they sell their woods, you actually pick out the piece you want from pictures on their web site, just like Gilmore lumber company who also sells premiem woods.
Another thing that they sell and I'm also going to try is an epoxy finish they sell. Very interesting site, www.cuecomponents.com they even have tutorials.

Hope this helps somebody,
Wayne Swindlehurst

 

[wdcav1952]

Lee, I do not mean this to intrude on your wonderful article at all, but here is a link for those who may want to try your technique and don't have a vacuum pump. I have not attempted to make the pump described, but it looks like it should work with your technique. I am saving the link and will try to make the pump when I get moved and settled in Pennsylvania. Anyone who can try this now, let us know how it works. http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/aero/vacuum/
Since I don't know how to do links very well, you may have to do a cut and paste to the address bar to go to the site.
William

 

[leenollie]

William - I took a look at the site...very interesting. I think that anyone following the instructions should be able to make this pump, and at a relatively low cost. I think the most expensive part would be the check valve. Overall, a person might be able to pull about 10 inches with it. The only thing I would add ( at the chamber side) would be a shutoff valve of some sort to hold the vacuum once it is created.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[leenollie]

William, I looked at the site more closely and am very impressed by this pump...23-26 inches of vacuum is mighty heavy vacuum, especially in a small area. The PVC check valve can be gotten at Lowes or Home Depot for less than $10. I may make one of these just for the heck of it.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[leenollie]

Good morning all,

Just a little update on my experiment...I tried to stabilize an undrilled 5-inch long blank of Spalted Pecan using polyurethane. It took 24 hours for the blank to completely sink, with me turning the blank over and reapplying the vacuum. After letting it completely dry, I cut it in half. The poly completely permeated the wood. I am going to try Polycryl as a stabilizer as soon as I use up the polyurethane I have.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[Daniel]

Incouraging,
Post a pick of the pen when you get that far

 

[tipusnr]

The big thing stopping me from making one of these vacuum units is the vacuum pump. I don't have enough patience for a hand pump so that leaves a low-cost electric version. Would my shop vac pull enough vacuum for the "pickle jar" unit?

One of the guys at work mentioned a vacuum pump used for bleeding brake lines that, he thinks, goes for around $25.00.

Any advice?[?]

 

[Doghouse]

http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/...=20002&classNum=170&subdeptNum=169&storeNum=6

This is a topsider oil change pump. I used it and you can pull enough vacuum to cause the can to start to dent. You would need a way to seal off the vacuum as it will slowly deminish due to all the friction fittings. I used a mason jar and fish tank gang valve. It works to not only set the vacuum, but allows you to open the other valve and release the vacuum to "rest" the wood. I will be cutting a couple of the blanks tonight and will photograph the result.

 

[tipusnr]

Thanks for the input but that's a bit more than I want to pay for a pump. It's also a manual pump and I saw someone post that to get the level of vacuum needed took 90 PUMPS. Not for me!!

Tried auto parts websites but don't know quite how to explain that I want to draw 20 inches of vacuum in a large pickle jar!! There's an invitation to analysis!!!

 

[Doghouse]

No, 90 pumps started to cause the pump to colapse upon itself. At 95 the poly itself started to bubble. I have been able to get the blanks to foam within the first 10 pumps. I just wanted to see if I could get the glass to implode. Never figured the metal would start to cave in first. After 2 sets of pumping and letting it sit, I no longer had any bubbles comming from the blank. I may use laquer next time as although the spalted maple is now hard as a rock, it no longer is as white, it has taken on the golden color of poly.

Any chemists out there that can tell me if it is safe to put high vacuum pressure on laquer? It is fun to play with this stuff, but I don't want to see it explode!

 

[ilikewood]

It is not the lacquer that is dangerous in vapor form, but the solvent it is in. The label on the jar should let you know if it is flammable or not. Anytime you have an electrical circuit that could spark (eg. motors), there is always the possibility for it to ignite a vapored solvent. The only way to totally avoid this is to buy a "explosion" proof system...and unless you have money to burn, most people can't afford it.

I personally would not run a motor near a vaporizing solvent (lacquer under vacuum), but if you did...do it outside where the vapors can be vented away.

Bill in Idaho (R&D chemist...wanna be woodworker)

 

[Doghouse]

Thanks. I'll clean everything out this week and try laquer this weekend.

 

[leenollie]

Let us know how that turns out, John. I might try the laquer as well.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[wayneis]

Someone else posted this also but I am also wondering if a shop vac will draw enough. Also I have had a couple of air pumps that are used to pump up bike tires air mattresses etc that also have a vacume for pulling air out of a mattress, do you think that something like this would work? Some of these small pumps are around ten bucks.

Wayne

 

[pecartus]

Bill - This may sound stupid, How does one vent fumes from a enclosed vacuum chamber?

 

[leenollie]

I've been thinking about different types of vacuum pumps out there on the market. Granted, the more vacuum you can pull, the faster the air can be removed from the blank. I would think that any amount of vacuum will do the trick; It would just take a little longer to do. I've seen that the Spalted Pecan blanks I use start to foam at about 12 inches of vacuum.

On the air mattress pump, That might work if you hooked it up to a one-way valve.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[woodman928]

I have been lurking in the back round for a few days and reading posts. Lee I have been trying to find your article on vacuum stabilizing wood but cant figure out where it is at can you point a newbie in the right direction.
Thanks
Jay

 

[Daniel]

Patrick,
YOu woudl be drawing fumes along withthe air as you create the Vacume. Plus it is not a perfect vacume. what is left is loaded with fumes and more than you woudl without the vacume as well.

 

[ilikewood]

Sorry Patrick about not answering this one sooner....been a bit busy. How does one vent fumes from an enclosed chamber? When you pull a vacuum, you are basically removing the air from the chamber with a pump. When the pump pulls the air out, it has to send it somewhere and it is just ususally vented to the atmosphere outside the pump. A check valve prevents the air from coming back in. Most systems are virtually impossible to keep perfectly sealed, so air eventually will seep back in....then you must pump the air back out. If you want me to explain how the solvent boils, I'll have to write you a separate letter as it gets a bit more lengthy.

Imagine yourself digging a hole with a shovel (you and the pump and the hole you are going to dig is the can you are going to pull a vacuum on). When you start shoveling, the dirt (which represents the air/fume mix) has to go somewhere.

Hope that helps a bit...I am trying to write this real quick cause I am late for work already.
[8D]

 

[pecartus]

Thanks Bill,

I have some Olive Wood Burl blanks that arent stabilized I would like to try this out on, have digested all the information given here and hopefully nothing blows up on me. Any other words of advise not posted here[?]

 

[leenollie]

Originally posted by woodman928
<br />I have been lurking in the back round for a few days and reading posts. Lee I have been trying to find your article on vacuum stabilizing wood but cant figure out where it is at can you point a newbie in the right direction.
Thanks
Jay

Hi Jay,

If you to the home page here and click the "Articles" link, my article is the fourth one down.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[woodman928]

Thanks Lee
I came here from Ed's stopper group and bookmarked it to come to the discussion page and looked everywhere but must have had a Senior Moment and never did hit HOME ( DUH) Thanks again will check it out tonight
Jay

 

[Doghouse]

I just posted a cigar pen with the results of the above described method. A little yellow hew was introduced by the poly, but it does not look bad.

 

[pecartus]

Thats a nice looking pen, I like the way the light yellow hue contrasts the black rings in the pen bands. I havent built up the courage yet to try this, I'm getting there. I need to do this on some olivewood blanks I got a few weeks back.

 

[leenollie]

Very nice pen, John. Poly does the same to the Spalted Pecan I have been using a lot of. I think it dramatizes the color differences, brings them out quite a bit. I haven't yet, but I'm going to try BLO and Tung oil as stabilizing agents as well. Later, I'll try Laquer. Good luck and "keep stabilized." []

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []

 

[pen-turners]

Am halfway through an experiment. Have a couple of Spalted Buckeye Burl blanks soaking in Minwax wood hardener with red dye added and will turn them in a few days. Will let everyone know the outcome good or bad. I also have a batch soaking in plexiglass acetone mixture and will compare the results.

Chris

 

[Guest]

I picked up a hand vacuum pump at Harbor Freight for $26.00 on sale.
My local Lowes has a wood stabilizer made for rotted wood put out by Bondo.
Will give that a try today.