SHOW OFF YOUR PENS -new category?

[mredburn]

We dont have a special photo gallery for the Bash Pens and the gallery for the Feature Photo archive for Front page pens hasnt been updated since 2008 These things have had some discussion but it takes a lot work to keep them up much less bring the back log current.

 

[plantman]

We already have an IAP collection forum that showcases the best of what the IAP has to offer ....

Hi Greg:

Actually, that is not the intent of the IAP Collection (partially yes, but not as a whole). While it does and will in the future preserve what I and others consider some of IAP's Best, it is more of a physical preservation of "what we do."

An example (sorry to pick on you Jim...:tongue

The pen that Plantman made is an example of "thinking outside of the box" and was an effort to show how a very respectable pen could be made while you waited for your new lathe to arrive! Is it a world famous pen in respect to kit/materials/finish, etc? No, but it represents an element of IAP - Innovation. And, in 10 years, it can be an example to newer penturners to THINK! And TRY!

So back to the OP: The IAP Collection is not a "Hall of Fame." That is a topic that as we can see has been discussed previously, and has many pros and cons. And I suspect will be debated again.

To Be Clear: IAP Collection - A Physical archive of what IAP does (well, some of it!!!)

A Hall of Fame Forum - A different topic.

Thank you Mark: The object of that pen was not to WOW anybody with design, skill, or uniqueness, only to show newer members that you didn't need $10,000 worth of equipment to make a respectable looking pen using the simplest methods and least amount of tools. For those of you that don't remember this pen, it was an octagon made with a 3/8 inch bolt, a few nuts and washers, and a disk sander. No lathe !! The pen need not be round to be attractive to people. I have been making pens for about 30 years, and still learn and see new ideas every day on this site. Many from newer members !!! I also admire and respect the many people who display much more talent and skills than I ever hope to achieve in my lifetime, but that doesn't mean that I won't continue to try to advance my knowledge and skills.


Brad; You are correct in bringing up my mistake about you being in the top 1 or 2% of pen makers. I should have stopped at the top 1%. Your pens are fantastic, and take pen making to the very top level !!! Jim S

 

[jeff]

We dont have a special photo gallery for the Bash Pens and the gallery for the Feature Photo archive for Front page pens hasnt been updated since 2008 These things have had some discussion but it takes a lot work to keep them up much less bring the back log current.

The pre-2008 front page photos were archived in threads in this forum.

Since July 2008, the front page pics are in an album.

Both of those links are under the front page photo.

 

[Dale Lynch]

...We could probably use a great tutorial for basic kitless pen making ... what you could use to get started, what's essential, what's optional, ect ...

I would LOVE to see a tutorial/video on how to get started in the kitless world. I keep wanting to make the leap but honestly have no idea where to start (i.e. basic tools, shapes, measurements etc.).

So for all of the people that think kitless is the ONLY way to make pens worthy of display how about helping those of us that would like to learn. All you have to do is take some photos, or just record to whole process, and then we too can "feel proud" of our pens.

I am not trying to upset anyone with my comments but us noobs are not trying to compete with the "elite" pen makers we just want to try and emulate your accomplishments. Some of us just need a little push and some help along the way. I am sorry, though, if it does upset anyone but I am just of the personality that I have never said ""ha ha I can do this (fill in the blank) and you can't", I am of the personality that I say "I noticed you are having a hard time with this, would you like me to show you how I do it?"

I have received a reputation as being pretty good with photography (not that you can tell from my photos posted here since I do not have a light box, yet, since I usually do outside work and I am new to the pen photo world...never knew it would be so artistic). I cannot even begin count how many times I have been at events and had people stop me to ask for help on anything from technique to equipment, and EVERY single time I stopped and talked with them to the point that I was sure I had helped them. Never once did I say, or imply, that I had to learn on my own so you do too, and I have never had an elitist attitude that any of my photos, or equipment, were any better than anyone elses, except my wife but that is a whole other story.

Again, sorry for rambling but I came to this site for the sole purpose of learning, and hopefully making friends along the way, but lately there have been too many posts that make me feel like us average/beginning penmakers are not worthy. Please do not get me wrong there have been tons of people here that have been very supportive (Roy, Marla, Smitty and Ed for example) but I have also seen my fair share of "stop asking for help and figure it out, the only way to learn is to make mistakes and not duplicate them again, eventually you will figure out what works" and "why don't you do a search before you ask, this question has been asked too many times and the answers are out there if you search." If someone can take the time to write these comments then why not just use that same amount of time and typing to help someone.

Thanks for "listening".

Bill

Here is a link to the IAP library on making kitless pens.http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/kitless_pen.pdf

It's pretty thurough,so please understand why they won't just take the time and type it all up every time someone asks.It take you 2 clicks to get to it.

 

[builtbybill]

...We could probably use a great tutorial for basic kitless pen making ... what you could use to get started, what's essential, what's optional, ect ...

I would LOVE to see a tutorial/video on how to get started in the kitless world. I keep wanting to make the leap but honestly have no idea where to start (i.e. basic tools, shapes, measurements etc.).

So for all of the people that think kitless is the ONLY way to make pens worthy of display how about helping those of us that would like to learn. All you have to do is take some photos, or just record to whole process, and then we too can "feel proud" of our pens.

I am not trying to upset anyone with my comments but us noobs are not trying to compete with the "elite" pen makers we just want to try and emulate your accomplishments. Some of us just need a little push and some help along the way. I am sorry, though, if it does upset anyone but I am just of the personality that I have never said ""ha ha I can do this (fill in the blank) and you can't", I am of the personality that I say "I noticed you are having a hard time with this, would you like me to show you how I do it?"

I have received a reputation as being pretty good with photography (not that you can tell from my photos posted here since I do not have a light box, yet, since I usually do outside work and I am new to the pen photo world...never knew it would be so artistic). I cannot even begin count how many times I have been at events and had people stop me to ask for help on anything from technique to equipment, and EVERY single time I stopped and talked with them to the point that I was sure I had helped them. Never once did I say, or imply, that I had to learn on my own so you do too, and I have never had an elitist attitude that any of my photos, or equipment, were any better than anyone elses, except my wife but that is a whole other story.

Again, sorry for rambling but I came to this site for the sole purpose of learning, and hopefully making friends along the way, but lately there have been too many posts that make me feel like us average/beginning penmakers are not worthy. Please do not get me wrong there have been tons of people here that have been very supportive (Roy, Marla, Smitty and Ed for example) but I have also seen my fair share of "stop asking for help and figure it out, the only way to learn is to make mistakes and not duplicate them again, eventually you will figure out what works" and "why don't you do a search before you ask, this question has been asked too many times and the answers are out there if you search." If someone can take the time to write these comments then why not just use that same amount of time and typing to help someone.

Thanks for "listening".

Bill

Here is a link to the IAP library on making kitless pens.http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/kitless_pen.pdf

It's pretty thurough,so please understand why they won't just take the time and type it all up every time someone asks.It take you 2 clicks to get to it.

Thanks, I don't think that I have seen this one yet, I saw another one that did not have photos. I am only human so I must have overlooked this one in the library, my apologies. Do you you know if the tutorial for the section (the one mentioned in this tutorial) was ever completed? Anybody know of any "hidden gem" videos on the subject? This is the one that is always referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DQna36uThA and I am searching through youtube but just thought I would ask if anyone knew of something on some other sites.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Dale Lynch]

here's a video of a front section being done.Custom Pen Turning - Making a Section. - YouTube
here is another tutorial from the library.http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/bulbfiller.pdf

 

[Skie_M]

Awesome ... so most of the kitless tutorial stuff is already done!


I'ld love to dig into that sometime in the future ....

But there's still a lot of other stuff on my list back there ...

 

[builtbybill]

Brad,

I owe you an apology, actually multiple, my comments were in no way directed toward you at all. I truly admire all of your work and would love to get anywhere near the same level, never gonna happen!! Second of all I never thought my comment would hijack your thread, not my intention. I do not feel sorry for what I said, however, just where I said it. I just got frustrated at some of the comments that were going back and forth, I actually typed the post and waited a few minutes to see if I still wanted to speak my mind and not post impulsively and after a few minutes I decided I wanted to say it. Unfortunately I said it in "your" thread instead of just starting my own.

For those of you that suffered through my rant, and still managed to offer the links - THANKS!!!!

Please accept my sincerest apologies, (in the morning when you wake up)

Bill

 

[Lucky2]

Yep, more segregation, that's what's needed. It's not as if some of you more advanced pen turners, don't look down on some newer turners work already. I'm not familiar with your work, and from the vibe that I'm getting from your question; I'm not to sure that I want to. I firmly believe that all pens should be placed in the SOYP forum, that way all pens can be viewed without having to check out different sections of the forums. It's to sad that you can't take or make enough time to remark on a regular pen turners pen, It must be awfully nice to be so good, that you don't want to be bothered checking out others pens. Is that the way you were treated when you first started out, or, did others not praise your work and encourage you to carry on? I think you should offer the same, oh right, your to busy, or good for the rest of us!!
Len

 

[BradG]

Yep, more segregation, that's what's needed. It's not as if some of you more advanced pen turners, don't look down on some newer turners work already. I'm not familiar with your work, and from the vibe that I'm getting from your question; I'm not to sure that I want to. I firmly believe that all pens should be placed in the SOYP forum, that way all pens can be viewed without having to check out different sections of the forums. It's to sad that you can't take or make enough time to remark on a regular pen turners pen, It must be awfully nice to be so good, that you don't want to be bothered checking out others pens. Is that the way you were treated when you first started out, or, did others not praise your work and encourage you to carry on? I think you should offer the same, oh right, your to busy, or good for the rest of us!!
Len

Ok, enough bashing.
My original post asked for a kitless category.

It was commented in more or less the words "Just because its kitless doesnt mean its good"

The conversation then switched to "What about a forum where pens can be moved to preserve unique ideas.


Now all of a sudden a few of you have jumped on the elitist bandwagon.

AGREED - any form of segregation is not good.

GET BACK ON TRACK - preserving all unique pens which pop up, regardless of how they're made. if they're unique, preserve them.

Len, this is aimed directly at you, just to rule out any confusion.

Actually my early days work was slated for being under or over turned, cut to wrong sizes and all sorts of little issues. Yes I don't have as much time as I would like to sit here reading every single post what pops up, but I work two jobs, and generally get to come on here on my breaks to catch up.

Secondly, another half of that spare time is spent helping new turners learn how to anodise, etch and plate. I receive alot of messages every day about these topics from different places. I've submitted enough tutorials via PDF & Youtube to say I've done my share to support the community and I still do.

As for the sarcasm throughout your post, put your toys back in your pram. Furthermore since you have posted one pen, and that was back in 2012, I fail to see how you are offended by me not looking at your pens what you've not even posted.

 

[Cwalker935]

Brad, sorry that you have been bashed and accused of being an elitist. While I enjoy looking at everyone's pens, I suspect that there are a lot of nice and creative work that does not get shared. This may be for competitive reasons which is perfectly understandable for those that actually make money from this endeavor. I would like to see more postings by those who push the envelope be they a pen wizard, master, or a newbie and really could care less if it's in the SOYP pen forum or somewhere else. The problem is how to create an acceptable place that does not create some level of classism.

Brad you put your work out there and I appreciate that. There are a lot of very active members here who have not posted a pen since I have been a member. I wish they would share more.

 

[Ironwood]

I have followed this thread throughout the day, but haven't replied as I have been on a work computer up until now.
I like to look at well executed pens of all types and I think its good to keep all in one SOYP forum, BUT, I agree with whoever said they eventually fall off the end once they fall behind a page or two, then they are gone, which is a shame.

I always open the forum on the front page to see the front page pen and check out the random photos, and occasionally check out the archived front page pen photos.
The biggest issue I have is its slow to look at them, they all need to be clicked on to enlarge, my internet connection is fairly slow at best and it takes time.

Going through the SOYP forum is also slow, and it doesn't help that about 98% of the photos are posted as thumbnails, which need to be clicked on to enlarge and wait to load, because of this I skip over a lot of pens because it takes too long to look at them all.

I think the forum could be so much better if more photos were posted at a size which is good for viewing and at a file size which doesn't take ages to load.

I have been a member here for 5 years now and posted quite a few of my pens, but it was only a week or two ago that I finally discovered how to post a larger photo here, thanks to Mike Redburn who described the process in another thread.

OK, it feels like I have been rambling on too much, so in a nutshell, what I am trying to say is, if the photos were displayed better it would be quicker and more enjoyable to view. 800 to 1000 pixels on the long edge, and 100 to 150kb I think should suit most everyone.

Sorry if I have gone off track Brad.

 

[jttheclockman]

Your Signature is "John T" I made the assumption.

My whole point being I don't think segregating the more experience turners from every one else is not fair toany one. I would be willing to say that you have seen something from a new guy that gave you a AH-HUH moment.[/quote]

Do I think a Hall of Fame archive is a good idea (yeah). entries can be entered once a month or 12 each year. Voted on by all the membership (in a straight up vote) no runners up or run offs for a tie. We already have something similar to that with the pens that tour around.

Also like the earlier post and like your statement this a public forum and no direct rude or mean comments are made or should be applied toward anyone. As my bride and I will be touring Europe again in the next couple years, and since we did not get to Great Britain on the last trip. We will for sure be on the next and the possibility of meeting some turners from all of Europe is high on our list. Maybe we can meet for some fish and chips and a pint.

John

I am not quite sure where you are going with this. But let me say I have been a member here for over 10 years. I have contributed my share of knowledge, voiced my opinions, and contributed to discussions of all sorts. I have answered any and all questions ever asked to me. I was instrumental in getting the Segmentation Forum on line. I even posted a full length thread in there explaining how I make some of my pens. Not quite sure what other qualifications I need to satisfy you for making comments in this thread.

Brad brought up a simple request to have a subdivision of a forum that is now in existence. I was met with this same kind of resistance when we discussed the Segmentation Forum. And here it is and does well. Not as well as i would like and it has been brought to my attention a few times it may be because I have not partaken in it for quite some time. This is due mainly because of some health issues I am currently going through and I have not been able to be in my shop for almost 2 years now. Hopefully this will change. I have a ton of ideas I want to share with all.

As this discussion has evolved I think Brad's thought process has changed somewhat and (I am not speaking for him) he has realized that kit pens too can be extremely well received when enhanced well. Then the conversation took us back to an old post that has been brought up before here which was pointed out by Mark. It was also pointed out from that discussion of the Hall of Fame that the saplings of the now popular IAP Pen Collection was born. The roots are there.

What I fail to understand is these so called Newbies and others want to discourage the growth of this Forum once again. This age old argument about separating the elite from the rest of the field is a deterrent is just truly nonsense. It is so stupid it is mindnumbing. Yes we are all in this together and yes we all should look to those that are better at this and learn from them. Having a seperate forum for certain kinds of pens is beneficial to ALL. It helps keep things uniform and neat. It helps as someone put it WEED out those pens that stand alone. The more we alienate the better pen makers the more that list drops and no one wins. Who do we then look to for those new ideas. I have said it over and over again. Take what you see here and run with it. There is no limits. People do extraordinary things with far less than what we have so if you use that as your crutch then shame on you.

Tired of reading about mistreatment to Newbies when they ask questions. This site is monitored daily and any and all mistreatment is dealt with so stop with that nonsense already too.

As far as tutorials go for every new idea that comes along or any new thing added to a pen. Impossible Impossible Impossible and with that said I have not seen someone turned away from info provided by said pen makers. When someone is working a a special pen they are not obligated to stop and take photos of every step in the making of that pen. Who are we to ask such things???

This brings me to the Hall of Fame item. Weather it happens or not is not going to make or ruin my day. I just felt and still do that a place for those special never seen before pens need to archieved and saved for future pen makers that come through here. It symbolizes what this site is about. It tells a story as to the evolution of the so called pen maker here.

Just one other thing I would like to mention to the naysayers here. How do you like it when Jeff picks a few pens a month to be on the front page??? I have seen many pens that i thought should be there but for restrictions they can not be. No fault of anyone's but that is the rules. Yes those are now archieved but that is such a small sample of what should be.

OK I am done with this discussion. I have stated my point and hopefully the conversation can continue with good intentions. Happy Turning All.

 

[BradG]

As this discussion has evolved I think Brad's thought process has changed somewhat and (I am not speaking for him) he has realized that kit pens too can be extremely well received when enhanced well.

Correct, at the beginning I knew I wanted to separate the finer pens from the masses so they can easily be found. The only way I could think of to do that was to pick an advanced area, such as kitless, to isolate those pens. it was then brought to my attention that just because its kitless doesn't mean its a good pen, and I was reminded just how many beautiful pens there are turned from various blanks on various kits which would also warrant being preserved. John hit the nail on the head with an pen which is unique & inspiring.

you like it when Jeff picks a few pens a month to be on the front page??? I have seen many pens that i thought should be there but for restrictions they can not be. .

Not quite sure what the criteria is for that but I've not managed to make one worthy of the front page yet :biggrin:

 

[BradG]

Brad,

I owe you an apology, actually multiple, my comments were in no way directed toward you at all. I truly admire all of your work and would love to get anywhere near the same level, never gonna happen!! Second of all I never thought my comment would hijack your thread, not my intention. I do not feel sorry for what I said, however, just where I said it. I just got frustrated at some of the comments that were going back and forth, I actually typed the post and waited a few minutes to see if I still wanted to speak my mind and not post impulsively and after a few minutes I decided I wanted to say it. Unfortunately I said it in "your" thread instead of just starting my own.

For those of you that suffered through my rant, and still managed to offer the links - THANKS!!!!

Please accept my sincerest apologies, (in the morning when you wake up)

Bill

Bill, honestly, not required You haven't spoke out of turn at all. It's an oppressive world when you can't voice what's on your chest.

 

[BradG]

Maybe we can meet for some fish and chips and a pint.

The meeting part is always welcome though il take a raincheck on the fish & chips + pint. I don't like anything made from potato which rules out chips, not a lover of fish unless its Sushi, and I don't drink beer :redface: (Rum & whiskey). I also cant stand football or sports in general which don't involve snow. Think I may be the worst Englishman ever!

 

[Katya]

What if we combined a few of these ideas.. post all pen pics in a larger format- I agree, sometimes it takes a while to click on each pen.

And then create a "favourites" folder that we each have. That way we can each store our favourites online where we can access them easily.

And every month, we could nominate a favourite for "Members' Choice of the Month" or something...

 

[builtbybill]

What I fail to understand is these so called Newbies and others want to discourage the growth of this Forum once again. This age old argument about separating the elite from the rest of the field is a deterrent is just truly nonsense.

Tired of reading about mistreatment to Newbies when they ask questions. This site is monitored daily and any and all mistreatment is dealt with so stop with that nonsense already too.

I am not opposed to the growth of the forum, nor am I opposed to the "hall of Fame" but I am not a fan of the "Elite" forum. The difference that I see here is that in a "Hall of Fame" your pen would get voted in, and in the "Elite" forum you make your own entries so you are the one making the determination that you believe your pen is above and beyond. How would you control what is posted there? Who decides what really is above and beyond. I love coming here and seeing all of the great pens, especially the "different", notice I did not say better. pens. I still look at almost all of the new pens, though, who knows where the next inspiration might come from?

As far as my comment about the "mistreatment" (I don't recall using that term but maybe you thought it was implied) let me start by saying this was never done toward any of my questions. I have always received positive feedback when I have asked for help. This was in response to some comments I have read when others have asked for help, maybe there was prior history between the participants that I do not know of. I will say though that there are a few people here that I have seen almost nothing but rude and condescending remarks from.

Here is an idea, probably stupid, what if there was a meeting each year, by the moderators and other admins, about making changes to the forum. Here is my vision of how it would work:

1. A new thread would be started in June asking for suggestions to forum improvements.

2. After 30 days worth of suggestions a poll would be created, using the suggestions in this thread, asking for your choice for the top 3 improvements you would like discussed by the admin team.

3. After the poll runs for 30 days the top 3 from the poll will get discussed by the admin team for inclusion into the forum next year. You can even set a policy that at least one of these must be included next year, but all can be if the team can support.

This would in fact guarantee growth and actually give us participants at least some say in the process.


Thanks again for your time,

Bill

 

[jttheclockman]

What I fail to understand is these so called Newbies and others want to discourage the growth of this Forum once again. This age old argument about separating the elite from the rest of the field is a deterrent is just truly nonsense.

Tired of reading about mistreatment to Newbies when they ask questions. This site is monitored daily and any and all mistreatment is dealt with so stop with that nonsense already too.

I am not opposed to the growth of the forum, nor am I opposed to the "hall of Fame" but I am not a fan of the "Elite" forum. The difference that I see here is that in a "Hall of Fame" your pen would get voted in, and in the "Elite" forum you make your own entries so you are the one making the determination that you believe your pen is above and beyond. How would you control what is posted there? Who decides what really is above and beyond. I love coming here and seeing all of the great pens, especially the "different", notice I did not say better. pens. I still look at almost all of the new pens, though, who knows where the next inspiration might come from?

As far as my comment about the "mistreatment" (I don't recall using that term but maybe you thought it was implied) let me start by saying this was never done toward any of my questions. I have always received positive feedback when I have asked for help. This was in response to some comments I have read when others have asked for help, maybe there was prior history between the participants that I do not know of. I will say though that there are a few people here that I have seen almost nothing but rude and condescending remarks from.

Here is an idea, probably stupid, what if there was a meeting each year, by the moderators and other admins, about making changes to the forum. Here is my vision of how it would work:

1. A new thread would be started in June asking for suggestions to forum improvements.

2. After 30 days worth of suggestions a poll would be created, using the suggestions in this thread, asking for your choice for the top 3 improvements you would like discussed by the admin team.

3. After the poll runs for 30 days the top 3 from the poll will get discussed by the admin team for inclusion into the forum next year. You can even set a policy that at least one of these must be included next year, but all can be if the team can support.

This would in fact guarantee growth and actually give us participants at least some say in the process.


Thanks again for your time,

Bill

Here you go Bill


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[builtbybill]

I have followed this thread throughout the day, but haven't replied as I have been on a work computer up until now.
I like to look at well executed pens of all types and I think its good to keep all in one SOYP forum, BUT, I agree with whoever said they eventually fall off the end once they fall behind a page or two, then they are gone, which is a shame.

I always open the forum on the front page to see the front page pen and check out the random photos, and occasionally check out the archived front page pen photos.
The biggest issue I have is its slow to look at them, they all need to be clicked on to enlarge, my internet connection is fairly slow at best and it takes time.

Going through the SOYP forum is also slow, and it doesn't help that about 98% of the photos are posted as thumbnails, which need to be clicked on to enlarge and wait to load, because of this I skip over a lot of pens because it takes too long to look at them all.

I think the forum could be so much better if more photos were posted at a size which is good for viewing and at a file size which doesn't take ages to load.

I have been a member here for 5 years now and posted quite a few of my pens, but it was only a week or two ago that I finally discovered how to post a larger photo here, thanks to Mike Redburn who described the process in another thread.

OK, it feels like I have been rambling on too much, so in a nutshell, what I am trying to say is, if the photos were displayed better it would be quicker and more enjoyable to view. 800 to 1000 pixels on the long edge, and 100 to 150kb I think should suit most everyone.

Sorry if I have gone off track Brad.

Whether it is the SOYP forum or some other new forum the pens will eventually all fall pages behind, granted in something like a "hall of Fame" forum it will take much longer for them to fall off the grid.


How do we post larger pictures? I have seen some people do it but I cannot figure out how, and I agree it makes it faster to browse through the new pics. Using firefox I can at least use the "thumbnail zoom plus" add-on so that when I scroll over a photo it automatically zooms a preview image without having to open the photo.

 

[builtbybill]

What I fail to understand is these so called Newbies and others want to discourage the growth of this Forum once again. This age old argument about separating the elite from the rest of the field is a deterrent is just truly nonsense.

Tired of reading about mistreatment to Newbies when they ask questions. This site is monitored daily and any and all mistreatment is dealt with so stop with that nonsense already too.

I am not opposed to the growth of the forum, nor am I opposed to the "hall of Fame" but I am not a fan of the "Elite" forum. The difference that I see here is that in a "Hall of Fame" your pen would get voted in, and in the "Elite" forum you make your own entries so you are the one making the determination that you believe your pen is above and beyond. How would you control what is posted there? Who decides what really is above and beyond. I love coming here and seeing all of the great pens, especially the "different", notice I did not say better. pens. I still look at almost all of the new pens, though, who knows where the next inspiration might come from?

As far as my comment about the "mistreatment" (I don't recall using that term but maybe you thought it was implied) let me start by saying this was never done toward any of my questions. I have always received positive feedback when I have asked for help. This was in response to some comments I have read when others have asked for help, maybe there was prior history between the participants that I do not know of. I will say though that there are a few people here that I have seen almost nothing but rude and condescending remarks from.

Here is an idea, probably stupid, what if there was a meeting each year, by the moderators and other admins, about making changes to the forum. Here is my vision of how it would work:

1. A new thread would be started in June asking for suggestions to forum improvements.

2. After 30 days worth of suggestions a poll would be created, using the suggestions in this thread, asking for your choice for the top 3 improvements you would like discussed by the admin team.

3. After the poll runs for 30 days the top 3 from the poll will get discussed by the admin team for inclusion into the forum next year. You can even set a policy that at least one of these must be included next year, but all can be if the team can support.

This would in fact guarantee growth and actually give us participants at least some say in the process.


Thanks again for your time,

Bill

Here you go Bill


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Testing 1 2 3

John,

Were you you just hinting that I add a thread to the Suggestion Box, which I am in the process of doing right now. Or are you telling me there is already something like I suggested, in which case I will not start a new thread?

Bill

 

[jttheclockman]

Bill

You do what you want. I merely suggested there is a forum that is designed for future site changes. The suggestion box can be a useful tool. There have been examples of changes to the site that came out of that subforum.

Have fun.

 

[builtbybill]

Bill

You do what you want. I merely suggested there is a forum that is designed for future site changes. The suggestion box can be a useful tool. There have been examples of changes to the site that came out of that subforum.

Have fun.

Here is the link to my suggestion: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f11/forum-evolvement-134965/

 

[Skie_M]

How do we post larger pictures? I have seen some people do it but I cannot figure out how, and I agree it makes it faster to browse through the new pics. Using firefox I can at least use the "thumbnail zoom plus" add-on so that when I scroll over a photo it automatically zooms a preview image without having to open the photo.

When pics are added as attachments, they automatically get thumbnailed ....

When pics are added using the image tags, they are displayed at full size.

here's the difference: (edit - the images are of a recent pen I did .... Comfort pen with upgrade gold cross clip in 24kt gold in orange/peach with cream marking alabaster.)

This first one is "linked BB code". If you click it, it will take you offsite to Imgur.com to view my pic and see details on it.

This second one is just with image tags. You can't click on it for a larger view, it just shows what I put there.


Lastly, I included an attachment here: You can click on it to view it larger.

 

[mredburn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEjSoirG9Y

 

[builtbybill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEjSoirG9Y

Awesome!, thanks

 

[jeff]

1. A new thread would be started in June asking for suggestions to forum improvements.

2. After 30 days worth of suggestions a poll would be created, using the suggestions in this thread, asking for your choice for the top 3 improvements you would like discussed by the admin team.

3. After the poll runs for 30 days the top 3 from the poll will get discussed by the admin team for inclusion into the forum next year. You can even set a policy that at least one of these must be included next year, but all can be if the team can support.

This would in fact guarantee growth and actually give us participants at least some say in the process.


Thanks again for your time,

Bill

Bill

Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried for the ~12 years we've been here to take each and every suggestion seriously. I've always tried to consider the needs of the community in every important decision.

I've implemented a lot of ideas which came from members, and when I have not been able to, I believe I've always had a good technical or logistical reason. I've also not done some things because when I presented the idea, it was not well received.

The most recent example is this thread. Brad suggested that we create a new forum section for kitless, and even though I knew it was a very polarizing topic, I encouraged him to kick off a discussion.

I'm not opposed to formalizing the suggestion process, but I don't know if it's feasible to require that at least one suggestion be implemented if it requires involved forum mods, etc. Some things are doable in a few clicks (like creating a new sub forum) and others take many hours of coding (like the image zoom implementation).

We recently created the "New Member Advocate" position, and Mr. Edgar Dohmann is that person. Even though the title says "New Member", Edgar and I have had discussions that he can be a conduit to keep management aware of a wide variety of topics. So perhaps Edgar would be interested in facilitating a "forum improvement" discussion at some regular interval.

MY PM box is always open to suggestions!

 

[Ironwood]

How do we post larger pictures?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEjSoirG9Y

Thanks Mike.

 

[builtbybill]

1. A new thread would be started in June asking for suggestions to forum improvements.

2. After 30 days worth of suggestions a poll would be created, using the suggestions in this thread, asking for your choice for the top 3 improvements you would like discussed by the admin team.

3. After the poll runs for 30 days the top 3 from the poll will get discussed by the admin team for inclusion into the forum next year. You can even set a policy that at least one of these must be included next year, but all can be if the team can support.

This would in fact guarantee growth and actually give us participants at least some say in the process.


Thanks again for your time,

Bill

Bill

Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried for the ~12 years we've been here to take each and every suggestion seriously. I've always tried to consider the needs of the community in every important decision.

I've implemented a lot of ideas which came from members, and when I have not been able to, I believe I've always had a good technical or logistical reason. I've also not done some things because when I presented the idea, it was not well received.

The most recent example is this thread. Brad suggested that we create a new forum section for kitless, and even though I knew it was a very polarizing topic, I encouraged him to kick off a discussion.

I'm not opposed to formalizing the suggestion process, but I don't know if it's feasible to require that at least one suggestion be implemented if it requires involved forum mods, etc. Some things are doable in a few clicks (like creating a new sub forum) and others take many hours of coding (like the image zoom implementation).

We recently created the "New Member Advocate" position, and Mr. Edgar Dohmann is that person. Even though the title says "New Member", Edgar and I have had discussions that he can be a conduit to keep management aware of a wide variety of topics. So perhaps Edgar would be interested in facilitating a "forum improvement" discussion at some regular interval.

MY PM box is always open to suggestions!

Jeff,

Thanks for the response, I fully understand the complexities that can be involved with upgrades to the forum. This is where the admin team would still contain the power, in my example at least, when you assess the suggestions from the original thread you only add the feasible changes into the poll. That way no matter what the results of the poll are you know that it would be something that is capable of being accomplished

 

[BradG]

Are we in agreeance unique pens which have pushed the envelope should be preserved as a copy in a seperate category. If it has been done before, it wouldn't qualify. Turners would still post their work in SOYP as normal, and if it's a pen which is an evolutionary step in the world of pen turning, a copy of it is made into the archive category (whatever that's decided to be called).

I appreciate there would still be alot of debate about how it's managed, but can we confirm if we at least agree on the goal.

 

[Skie_M]

Still needs a bit more discussion, I think, Brad ...


Like ... first of a kinds only? Or do significant improvements on the process/results count too?

Should we include past examples that are already archived? (that would double our efforts in some areas, and may not be desirable.)

Should we include any pen that should qualify based on appearance, or only ones who's techniques are laid out so that we can follow their footsteps?


How and when should we archive such examples? What will be the guidelines for addition or removal from this archive?

 

[jttheclockman]

Still needs a bit more discussion, I think, Brad ...


Like ... first of a kinds only? Or do significant improvements on the process/results count too?

Both

Should we include past examples that are already archived? (that would double our efforts in some areas, and may not be desirable.)

By all means yes but can be done at a later time over a vast period of time.

Should we include any pen that should qualify based on appearance, or only ones who's techniques are laid out so that we can follow their footsteps?

Appearance and with that techniques will always shine through.

How and when should we archive such examples? What will be the guidelines for addition or removal from this archive?

The HOW is the question and there should never be a reason for removal.



I know I am on board.

I think the main questions are how, not what.

As I see your questions I put in red. Again just my opinion.

 

[magpens]

Slimline Click Pen - Eligible for "Elite" Categorization ?

I don't believe in this egotistical, elitist idea.

There is a place for pens that are really pushing the envelope and that's in the Pen Turners Guild - let them go there.

I believe it was stated in the OP that the Gold Ribbon Boys and Girls don't have time to wade through all the "garden variety" pens displayed in the mainstream SOYP category.

Well, surely the Gold Ribbon Boys and Girls know who their compatriots are, so they could just ignore threads by all but those penturners.

Whatever happens to this idea, I would be strongly opposed to the mainstream penturners being excluded from viewing and talking to the "elite".

But I would like to see the elitist idea die ... right now.

OK, so I have done something that I think no one else has done ... I have made two versions of a slimline click pen, one is in acrylic and one is in wood. The OD is 0.33" - 0.35" and they use 7mm tubes and Parker refills. I am not at this point going to tell how I did it. But I will say that I used readily available kit parts.

My question is this: Am I eligible to join the "elite" ? Is this a feat of such magnitude that warrants my entry into the Gold Ribbon club ?

Please, somebody who is in the "elite" category give me an answer ... I am serious !

 

[CREID]

I don't believe in this egotistical, elitist idea.

There is a place for pens that are really pushing the envelope and that's in the Pen Turners Guild - let them go there.

I believe it was stated in the OP that the Gold Ribbon Boys and Girls don't have time to wade through all the "garden variety" pens displayed in the mainstream SOYP category.

Well, surely the Gold Ribbon Boys and Girls know who their compatriots are, so they could just ignore threads by all but those penturners.

Whatever happens to this idea, I would be strongly opposed to the mainstream penturners being excluded from viewing and talking to the "elite".

But I would like to see the elitist idea die ... right now.

OK, so I have done something that I think no one else has done ... I have made two versions of a slimline click pen, one is in acrylic and one is in wood. The OD is 0.33" - 0.35" and they use 7mm tubes and Parker refills. I am not at this point going to tell how I did it. But I will say that I used readily available kit parts.

My question is this: Am I eligible to join the "elite" ? Is this a feat of such magnitude that warrants my entry into the Gold Ribbon club ?

Please, somebody who is in the "elite" category give me an answer ... I am serious !

Ok, I should have learned my lesson but here I go again. In the OP it was stated "It feels like once in a while a pen pops up which is evident that this person put a lot more time into it compared to the average joe, and it's lost in a sea of conventionally made pens." and then "This raised alot of questions, as to what would actually qualify as an advanced pen when you get down to the nitty gritty, possibly leading to confusion as to where people can post. who would police it etc. a Kitless category is exactly that. Kitless. no pens which are made using pieces from kits, internally or otherwise, maybe with the exception to a key component if it's felt it would be beneficial to the vast majority." and then "Wouldn't you rather have a category of pens being showcased where you know each one which has been made has had a considerable amount of time & effort put into it? This new category, seeing as going kitless is considered advanced in itself, should be full of jaw dropping pens in an easy to find location."
Kitless, kitless, kitless. That is what this is about. You have insulted the masses, whether they feel insulted or not. How dare you state that in order for a pen to be advanced and have more time put into it, it has to be kitless. I think you should take a look at more of those average joe pens. Like the segmented pens which I certainly believe that they took more than a few minutes to make and which I think just because they used a kit, that it can't be advanced is absolutely INSANE! What about all the people doing casting and just because they use a kit to show it off, they are just an AVERAGE JOE!!! What about the person that took the time to do a beautiful job of designing what shape they turn a blank that looks absolutely fabulous????? I think this should be taken off the table for the simple reasons that, first it was obvious that what the person was after was a kitless forum, that they tried to justify this new forum by being an elitist and let's not forget how insulting the OP was to us AVERAGE JOES. The original poster stated in a later post that it was not his intent to offend anyone, well YOU DID. If you really believe that you did not intend to offend anyone, then take down your OP and go make your ELITE pens.
Curt

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I really don't understand the emotional outbursts. Somebody made a suggestion. If you don't like the suggestion then just say so. No need to go all postal.

Ed

 

[CREID]

I really don't understand the emotional outbursts. Somebody made a suggestion. If you don't like the suggestion then just say so. No need to go all postal.

Ed

To outright state that if you didn't make a kitless pen, you didn't spend any time on it and it isn't worth being an elite pen just because it isn't kitless is INSULTING!

 

[CREID]

If it had been brought up that someone thought there needed to be a kitless forum, without putting everybody else underneath the so called Elite. I would have some respect for that. But I don't have respect for how this was done.
Curt

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Can I please ask everyone to take a deep breath? Everyone has different ideas, and we all look at things from different vantage points...There's no reason to get upset, insulted, or otherwise flustered by a forum suggestion. If you don't like the idea, please respond without venom...there's just no reason why it should result in such angst, especially as it was a suggestion that was offered constructively.

To respond to the above posts, there's definitely a place for everyone here, and I don't think there will be a "restricted elite" section that would divide the membership.

I do like the idea of showcasing amazing pens - and we already do that to a very limited extent with the front page and the IAP collection.

But, I do have a suggestion that may help those who don't want to look at every post in the SOYP section. If you want to see a pen that's causing a lot of talk, and don't want to contribute by offering critiques or support for pens that don't meet your personal criteria, simply look for posts in the SOYP section that have multi-page responses. If you want to save them for later viewing, perhaps you could use the bookmark feature of your browser.

Personally, I don't make amazing pens, but I do like to look at them...but it's also important to have others respond to my pens and tell me how I can improve.

I like looking at all the SOYP threads, as it's neat to see how the craft is evolving, and how trends are developing.

 

[CREID]

Can I please ask everyone to take a deep breath? Everyone has different ideas, and we all look at things from different vantage points...There's no reason to get upset, insulted, or otherwise flustered by a forum suggestion. If you don't like the idea, please respond without venom...there's just no reason why it should result in such angst, especially as it was a suggestion that was offered constructively.

To respond to the above posts, there's definitely a place for everyone here, and I don't think there will be a "restricted elite" section that would divide the membership.

I do like the idea of showcasing amazing pens - and we already do that to a very limited extent with the front page and the IAP collection.

But, I do have a suggestion that may help those who don't want to look at every post in the SOYP section. If you want to see a pen that's causing a lot of talk, and don't want to contribute by offering critiques or support for pens that don't meet your personal criteria, simply look for posts in the SOYP section that have multi-page responses. If you want to save them for later viewing, perhaps you could use the bookmark feature of your browser.

Personally, I don't make amazing pens, but I do like to look at them...but it's also important to have others respond to my pens and tell me how I can improve.

I like looking at all the SOYP threads, as it's neat to see how the craft is evolving, and how trends are developing.

I like to look at amazing pens too, and I certainly don't think what I have made so far are amazing (maybe someday). But recently the IAP has become somewhat negative, and somewhat elitist. I do have to take responsibility for some of the negativness from what I have posted in this thread, but eventually you have to stand up and do what you can to keep the integrity of this forum from deteriorating further. Just look at some of the negative stuff that goes on here, especially lately. I have learned a lot here and want to learn more. I want to make better pens than I do now. I want to get better than I am. Just to let you know, I used to shoot competitive archery and became quite good at it, by asking questions and listening to everybody including the average joe archers that were quite knowledgeable, surprisingly the ELITE in archery were just naturally good at archery, they had no idea why, but at every chance they would tell everyone how good they were and give out information that was so horrible that many people quit the sport before they got the chance to enjoy it. I don't want that to happen here. I do apologize for ranting on this thread, but as I said, I've seen it happen before and all you have to do is take a look at this forum to see it happening here, and that will be a sad day.
Curt

 

[CREID]

Oh, and I am done commenting on this thread in the interest of peace.
Curt