SHOW OFF YOUR PENS -new category?

[BradG]

Hello Chaps
I know this conversation has come up before, and there was a lot of debate about it, but im digging it up again :redface:

As much as I love browsing through the SOYP category, its too busy. Given the influx of new members. It feels like once in a while a pen pops up which is evident that this person put a lot more time into it compared to the average joe, and it's lost in a sea of conventionally made pens.

There's no telling how many works of art I've missed because of this because its dropped off the first page as I don't get to browse the listings every day.

I would like to see a Kitless Show off your pens category, and here are my reasons why.


Beforehand, we debated an advanced SOYP category. This raised alot of questions, as to what would actually qualify as an advanced pen when you get down to the nitty gritty, possibly leading to confusion as to where people can post. who would police it etc. a Kitless category is exactly that. Kitless. no pens which are made using pieces from kits, internally or otherwise, maybe with the exception to a key component if it's felt it would be beneficial to the vast majority. Cutting threads with taps & dies isn't difficult regardless. Some may see that as unfair, but the truth of it is I would love to push more people over the edge into the world of kitless.

Wouldn't you rather have a category of pens being showcased where you know each one which has been made has had a considerable amount of time & effort put into it? This new category, seeing as going kitless is considered advanced in itself, should be full of jaw dropping pens in an easy to find location.



So there you have it.. that's me getting the topic off my chest, and clearly my two cents

Your thoughts?

 

[PenPal]

How about a section for you and Skippy and the Japanese crafted urushi finished and Jonathons castings and on and on call it one offs or very special much like the hardly used tag of Penwizard that has hung in there so long.

Mind you everything fits in the Show us your pens far as I can make out they all are used to write with.

Advanced Pen Making does fit.

I am a fan of your work and that of so many others.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[skiprat]

I'm not so sure that another 'elitist' forum is needed. We already have the Advanced forum. I used to post stuff there but stopped when I realised that I just 'assumed' the stuff I had done was advanced in some way. I dont use it anymore.

What message does it send to our members if there was a forum where all the kitless pens were shown, so that we didn't have to waste time scrolling through the regular stuff? I think a negative one.
I love looking through the SOYP forum. In fact most of my inspiration comes from there. Truth be told, more kitless pens are identical than kit pens. Also, there are many many far better kit pens than some of the kitless monstrosities we see.

If a new forum were needed, the I would actually like to see one on CNC, or your specialty, chemical etching and even one for PC. But only to group the threads, not to make it a special club where only certain people could post.
We have had new forums.....segmenting......Beall Wizard....ghost towns.
If you think a forum for kitless pens would be well used, then take a look at the Pmg forum. You could hear a mouse fart, it's so quiet.:wink:

You can customise your setting to view just the forums you like and ignore the rest. I dont see the Marketplace or most of the vendor forums, for instance

LOL, in fact if I could make one change here it would be a ' reverse ignore' function, where I could make my posts invisible to some...:biggrin:

 

[BradG]

The message I would hope it would send is up your game. Negative? perhaps. inspiring motivation to push their skill sets further? questionable.

We have the advanced forum yes, but to me I've always viewed that as somewhere to ask questions relating to advanced methods, not a place to show the pens off. Besides from that you're machining one of the toughest metals lol... if that's not advanced with the finish you get I don't know what is :biggrin:

Sorry skip, I just don't enjoy flicking through loads of basic pens anymore. If there was a filter I could apply so I could only see pens which floated my boat I would do.

I understand your views that it may be a ghost category. good point, maybe there wouldn't be enough being submitted to it, but if we don't try these things it will never evolve.

Perhaps a category no members can post to, like a hall of fame. If a pen pops up which gets multiple pages of comments and likes, a moderator/admin could move it to that "Hall of fame" category. I think that would group all of the excelling pens together without creating the divide of an advanced/kitless category.

Jeff, im guessing it would be over stretching to alter the site to do that automatically.... if likecount>50 then move post.

 

[jttheclockman]

Hello Brad

This is going to be long so have a cup of JO handy.
We sort of had this conversation before but i will put my thoughts here too being you started the thread. I know you are looking to try to separate the elite pens from the, don't know how to gently say it, everyday done that pens. To use kit-less as the basis would in my eyes do a disservice to others. I have seen plenty of kit-less pens here that are just as plain and simple. Take a piece of acrylic and put some threads on it and call it a fountain pen. Yes it takes some skill to do this and yes you need taps and dies. But in the end there is no WOW factor.

There are very few members still here who are the extreme pen makers that whenever they post a pen you just know it will be special. You are in that category. There are those that make pens using tools and techniques that not many people here can afford and again you are in that category. Don't get me wrong, this is a great thing. It shows us mortals what can be achieved and shows us things that we would be hardpressed to accomplish. This is why those pens are elite and stand out as much.

But here is my side of this. I think you over look the fact that a kit can be used as a tool to make that special pen also. You talk about time making the pen. Well it can take just as much time to make a blank that sits on a kit pen too. Myself and many others have proven that over the years here. I try to make blanks that just about any pen maker can do given they have some basic tools and knowledge to use them. My tools are not extreme cnc machines, not even metal lathes and for sure no acid was used. But like others i think we get there.

The next point and I think this is where we both agree and want to stress to so many others that you too can come up with that special pen. Weather it is with a kit, or kitless. All it takes is imagination and we all have that in us. Think outside the box. Take the pens you see here and improve them or design a pen around the idea. There is no one here taking out patents that I know of. There is nothing proprietary here that I have seen in all my years here and that includes the watch part pens. But most of all try to make pens with your own ideas. This is what makes this hobby grow and it has grown in leaps and bounds since I first turned a stick of wood some 10 years ago. There were many innovators and artisans that passed through these halls and have moved on. You Brad would have enjoyed them.

My last point and i have beaten this horse to death but to me it is relevant in this topic. I too would like to archive those elite pens and save them for those that follow can easily find them and enjoy the eye candy. These are pens that jump off the page and are always front page worthy. These are the pens with the WOW factor. Yes you are correct when you say a fantastic pen can get lost in the pages real quick because of so many others wanting to show their work and there is nothing wrong with that. But the problem is they get lost for good. I have brought up many examples of pens that just got lost that were over the top pens. I tried to bring them to life again but some times I had to do some extensive research just to find them. This brings me to my point and here is the bad words again"Hall of Fame" pens. To me this is the way to save and preserve those special pens that make us use the word WOW when we see them. It has been discussed and debated here as to the problems setting this up and egos that would be hurt. But to me this all harkens back to what you Brad are trying to achieve. Maybe I am off base here but these are my thoughts on the subject.

OK we now return to our regularly scheduled programing Thanks for reading.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

You'd still miss the posts from humble people who don't think that their work is special enough...

You'd also miss posts from people who made an amazing blank, or adapted a kit, and just didn't meet the 'kitless' criteria.

There'd also be a big issue regarding how often it gets used. I think you'll find it turns into the Bealle Pen Wizard sub-forum scenario...

I do like a "hall of fame" - but I don't know how you'd maintain/determine/create consensus on what gets put into it.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[Curly]

Would todays wow pen be removed when it becomes commonplace and ho hum next season?

 

[jttheclockman]

Would todays wow pen be removed when it becomes commonplace and ho hum next season?

Not sure why you posted that question Pete and or if you were trying for humor, but I am guessing it was directed at me. The simple answer is never. It shows the evolution of pen making. Every pen made has been some descendant of another pen. If you read my post you will see where I encourage others to take the pens we see and improve on them or add their own ideas. It is what pen making is all about. There is just too little of the thinking outside the box here and elsewhere. That is why pens become commonplace or HO-HUM so fast.

 

[BradG]

H
I too would like to archive those elite pens and save them for those that follow can easily find them and enjoy the eye candy. These are pens that jump off the page and are always front page worthy. These are the pens with the WOW factor. Yes you are correct when you say a fantastic pen can get lost in the pages real quick because of so many others wanting to show their work and there is nothing wrong with that. But the problem is they get lost for good.

That hits it on the head. the popular wow pens need to be grouped together from the masses.

I do like a "hall of fame" - but I don't know how you'd maintain/determine/create consensus on what gets put into it.

Just my personal opinion.

After speaking with a couple of people I agree that a "hall of fame" approach would be a better approach for grouping them as that way everyone is still posting in the SOYP category. Id hope it could be determined by a bit of common sense. If the post is overly popular (they stick out like a sore thumb with multiple pages of comments, dozens of likes, and comments to suit) Move a copy of the thread to the preserving category. who does it? yes I appreciate thats something yourself & Jeff would need to figure out and not an easy answer im sure.

Would todays wow pen be removed when it becomes commonplace and ho hum next season?

If a pen is that good, then it won't be boring a year later. besides, it's a forum. why remove them? they will just increment the page count just the same as it does in the SOYP category now.

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I debated responding and I hope I don't upset anyone. I'm hoping I just misinterpreted what you were saying. At first I thought you had a good point that sometimes pens were pushed through quickly because of newer post being added. Then in you last post you said you were tired looking at basic pens then mentioned a hall of fame category. I thought the Home Page Featured Photo was sort of a hall of fame spotlight. As far as basic pens I thought that was were most of us started so we should look back at ourselves and maybe mentor the new turners when we can. I also believe we all have different capabilities and some will never be able to do things others can no matter how hard they try. Also we all have different amounts of money we can spend on equipment so some can't afford to turn what other turn. Once again I don't want to offend anyone but I hate to see people forget where they started and start to look down on the ones they leave behind. If I misread your thoughts I apologize. Thanks

 

[BradG]

Kenny, no offence taken it's a public forum and everyone;s welcome to pitch in their two cents

I'm trying to rock the boat a bit and shake things up so I wouldn't be suprised if a feather is ruffled along the way.

This site is fantastic and has everything on it. It's also growing pretty rapidly so perhaps revisiting how things are organised for the sake of being able to find things in the long run should be considered.


My first and last point are related. yes they are pushed through quickly and I don;t feel that sometimes they are given the exposure they deserve. The second point about a hall of fame is just throwing out ideas trying to find a solution. In an ideal world I would like to see a new category for these pens to be grouped together. if someone can come up with a better idea im all ears.

In your comment, you mention lots of people have lots of different capabilities though I don't quite agree with that. I could make a kitless pen without a metal lathe and etch it just the same. it's not our tools what limit us but the will to attempt and learn new methods. Of course if the said craftsman is quite happy with what he or she is doing then who am I to say otherwise

 

[Curly]

Would todays wow pen be removed when it becomes commonplace and ho hum next season?

My question wasn't directed at anyone in particular nor meant as a joke. What I was trying to get at is that the pens that are innovative now become commonplace here as others make their own versions, copies if you will, and they no longer generate the same intrest.

When the first watch part pens hit the screen they wowed everyone. Now they are made by many and would new versions warrant continued inclusion in a special section? Same goes for the metal tape pens. At the moment there is a cool pen shown with pen drawn art on it. Will people still want to see them in a special section when there are 5 or 10 blank makers selling them and those pens are being posted in the "special" section?

The same would apply a Custom/Kitless or even Themed Pen area. There are going to be pens posted that while now, are rare, and get overlooked by occasional lookers, (that would be Brad :wink: ) in the future there may be dozens a day that are of less interest, making it hard to find the gems. I would love a reverse filter that I could set to clean out the stuff I don't want to see but then I would likely miss those hidden gems.

So I have to say that I don't want to see the SOYP subdivided. I have no objection of a section where select and inovative work is shown but that would be up to the mods to populate.

 

[plantman]

Brad; I see your point, but you are among the top 1 or 2 % of the pen makers on this site. The other 98% of us will never achieve this stature. Not that we shouldn't try, but as John T stated, many of us don't have the tools, knowledge, skills, or money to produce the quality of pens that you and others in your group can. This division of talent reminds me of the debate we had a while back as to who or what makes a "master" pen maker. Or who qualifies as being good enough to be excepted as a "guild" member ?? A "master" is a highly skilled person in an art, craft or some other form. A "Guild", is an organization with related interests or goals, and should have no limits as to ones ability or skills for someone to join !!. I think Mark has one of the better ideas with the IAP collection. You can go on site and look at the photos and read how these pens were made. They all may not be "WOW" pens of advanced design, but they all have something different to offer. We all have different tastes in the things we think have beauty, art, and skill, so therefor you will never please everyone every time. I can see divisions in contests. This allows more people the chance to show their skills at a level they feel comfortable with, and those with the most skills to work a little harder if the want to be the best. Jim S

 

[BradG]

the terms master penmaker and all that Jazz just feeds Ego's, and id rather steer away from all that labelling if I can.

Not quite in agreeance with the top 2% part.. theres LOADS of highly talented people on here for various different reasons which warrant being in there.

Competitions are another issue. Doesn't seem fair having everyone in the same pot so to speak, but I wouldn't even like to begin to speculate what the answer is to that problem. sounds like a big mess discussing that one.

Marks project with the IAP collection is a fantastic idea and I'm sure it's a privilege to be stood infront of all those wonders on display, but with regards to the original post here, I don't think that encompasses it, seeing as only one pen from each creator is likely to be included etc.

 

[jttheclockman]

Would todays wow pen be removed when it becomes commonplace and ho hum next season?

My question wasn't directed at anyone in particular nor meant as a joke. What I was trying to get at is that the pens that are innovative now become commonplace here as others make their own versions, copies if you will, and they no longer generate the same intrest.

When the first watch part pens hit the screen they wowed everyone. Now they are made by many and would new versions warrant continued inclusion in a special section? Same goes for the metal tape pens. At the moment there is a cool pen shown with pen drawn art on it. Will people still want to see them in a special section when there are 5 or 10 blank makers selling them and those pens are being posted in the "special" section?

The same would apply a Custom/Kitless or even Themed Pen area. There are going to be pens posted that while now, are rare, and get overlooked by occasional lookers, (that would be Brad :wink: ) in the future there may be dozens a day that are of less interest, making it hard to find the gems. I would love a reverse filter that I could set to clean out the stuff I don't want to see but then I would likely miss those hidden gems.

So I have to say that I don't want to see the SOYP subdivided. I have no objection of a section where select and inovative work is shown but that would be up to the mods to populate.

Well Pete in the last part of your post you sort of answered the first part.

A section for the innovative pen. When a pen is a WOW pen it usually is an innovative pen. I do understand and this is why it has been beaten to death that each person's definition of a WOW pen is subjective. But to me when you see a WOW pen you know it. You use the watch part pen as an example. When it first was done it did hit the scene as a WOW pen and now it has become everyday practice until someone takes it to a new level and believe me there is a new level. But it should be archieved because it was an idea that was launched. Same goes for poly clay pens. Same old flowers and butterflies but when first came out that was innovative. You can say this about every pen. The circuit board pen, the braided pens, the CF pens, the feather pens and so on. When they first hit the scene they should have been saved to that special file. Today they do not make the file because the concept is there already.

But lets take segmenting as another example. Just because a pen is segmented does not mean it does not go to the WOW file because it has been done before. The look of the pen is what determines that.

What I am trying to say is take the idea of segmenting, take the idea of watch parts, take the idea of casting on a tube and run with it and stretch the imagination. Or you can go another route such as what Skip and Brad do and go entirely kitless and create. These type pens need to be preserved. If everyone starts making bolt pens then they too will become mundane and boring but until that happens they are innovative.

This is the way i look at this.

 

[BradG]

Innovative pens. Nicely said.

Anything new and refreshing or out of the box which John said, would suit it well.


I was corrected earlier that just because it's kitless doesn't mean it's worth preserving, and I agree with that. Pens which are deemed innovative would fit well. For sure flicking through that category would show you a lot of unique pens

 

[BJohn]

OkI have read most of the post's, and have avoided adding my tcw. But here it goes.

1st The comment about one may never have or develop the abilities in pen turning as some others is HOG WASH. And to say that, to me is a defeatist attitude. A lot of the time all it may take is $$$. To add the threading jig, The addition of the right tools to turn stone. We have no idea what that persons talents are and limitations holding them back.

2nd John there is a place for you to go and look at what you may consider worthy of you time. It's Called The Pen turners Guild. And you don't have to be a member to look at their galleries. And John I looked at the pens in your members gallery and make no mistake they are nice. But I may have missed one or two but they all appear to be made from kit's.

3rd and last I have stood up before, for the new comer to pen turning and this forum. As I am one of them (being here for just under a year, and will admit I learn some thing every time I log on. I have seem people belittled for just asking a question. This to me is just another attempt to segregate those every day guy's, a lot of which are new turners from those that think they are to good AND I WILL QUOTE "WEED" through the every pen's that by far the vast majority guy's & lady's put up here. These people put them selves and their work out there at the risk of being looked down upon.

Enough said and I will close with this and it is the truth, I have seen people leave this forum because of the elitist attitude show to them. I will not mention their good names or the names of the people with the attitudes. It is a shame this has happened we as a body have no idea what we may have missed out on.

Instead of thinking of it as WEEDING through, why not take the time and create ourselves a chance to mentor some one. Now that would be different.

 

[mark james]

When I see a pen posted or appears in the random shots on the left of the Home screen that really impresses me (whether I can make something similar now/may eventually be able to make it/or will most likely never attempt), I save the address in a separate "Word" file.

So I have my own "Hall of Fame" File (none of mine are in it yet :tongue. No, this is not as convenient as having a separate IAP Forum, but it does work for me.

Currently there are 45 individual pens, and the Photo Albums of 32 IAP members. So, I probably have reasonably quick access to over 300+ pens that I feel inspired by viewing.

Many would never be considered by the PMG, some are in the PMG, some are well within my current skill set, many will never be - but they are MY favorites.

I fully appreciate taking inspiration from the work of others to make something unique that I needed to attempt myself.

 

[jttheclockman]

OkI have read most of the post's, and have avoided adding my tcw. But here it goes.

1st The comment about one may never have or develop the abilities in pen turning as some others is HOG WASH. And to say that, to me is a defeatist attitude. A lot of the time all it may take is $$$. To add the threading jig, The addition of the right tools to turn stone. We have no idea what that persons talents are and limitations holding them back.

2nd John there is a place for you to go and look at what you may consider worthy of you time. It's Called The Pen turners Guild. And you don't have to be a member to look at their galleries. And John I looked at the pens in your members gallery and make no mistake they are nice. But I may have missed one or two but they all appear to be made from kit's.

3rd and last I have stood up before, for the new comer to pen turning and this forum. As I am one of them (being here for just under a year, and will admit I learn some thing every time I log on. I have seem people belittled for just asking a question. This to me is just another attempt to segregate those every day guy's, a lot of which are new turners from those that think they are to good AND I WILL QUOTE "WEED" through the every pen's that by far the vast majority guy's & lady's put up here. These people put them selves and their work out there at the risk of being looked down upon.

Enough said and I will close with this and it is the truth, I have seen people leave this forum because of the elitist attitude show to them. I will not mention their good names or the names of the people with the attitudes. It is a shame this has happened we as a body have no idea what we may have missed out on.

Instead of thinking of it as WEEDING through, why not take the time and create ourselves a chance to mentor some one. Now that would be different.

Hello John

I had to look back just in case there was another John you were referring to. Since I do not see one I assume it is me. I would like to make this point, never did I say I made kitless pens and on the contrary that is all I use. I even made a point about it in my post if you read it carefully. i also am well aware with the Guild and I can point you to other sites if you would like that you can see some fine pens. You do not even have to go to any forum, just use google search and click on images. Man there are a ton of pens.

Now one thing I do not like reading and it has been written before, segregate. How in the world is this segregating. It is weeding as you call it and yes there are a handful of people that qualify but that does not mean each and every person can not put out something spectacular. I think every time one of those special pens show up it should be celebrated moreso than the average pen. Yes i feel that way. But when you archieve it you now make it more readily available for others to view. So many new members join here each day. Do you think they go through the many number of pages of show your pens. ??? No those special pens get lost. These pens should be a benchmark for others to look at. I think it gets lost here that there are members that are beyond the everyday pen making skills and want to have their say also. So maybe this is segregating.

I do something similar to what Mark does and i have a few pens that are on my bucket list to try and I would do this to honor the people who first did them, not to copy and sell.

I strongly feel that the evolution of pen making needs to be archived and somehow preserved.

John, there have been many people that have left here for many reasons and yes it is ashame some of the more talented people have chosen to move on but we are here and it is the next generation that shines the light. No reason the next great artisan can not emerge from the ranks. The thing that holds people back is afraid of failure. Again I sound like a broken record but try new things. Experiment. jump all in the water is fine.

 

[jondavidj]

You'd still miss the posts from humble people who don't think that their work is special enough...

You'd also miss posts from people who made an amazing blank, or adapted a kit, and just didn't meet the 'kitless' criteria.

There'd also be a big issue regarding how often it gets used. I think you'll find it turns into the Bealle Pen Wizard sub-forum scenario...

I do like a "hall of fame" - but I don't know how you'd maintain/determine/create consensus on what gets put into it.

Just my personal opinion.

Maybe do a "Hall of Fame" where people vote for you to be in, sort of like a Pen Makers Guild.....think that will work? You could use the poll....let it run for a week. Just an idea...

 

[plantman]

1st The comment about one may never have or develop the abilities in pen turning as some others is HOG WASH. And to say that, to me is a defeatist attitude. A lot of the time all it may take is $$$. To add the threading jig, The addition of the right tools to turn stone. We have no idea what that persons talents are and limitations holding them back.

This is not HOG WASH or meant to be a defeatist attitude, it is a common fact known to all. Man may be created equal in God's and the government's eyes, but that is where the similarity ends. To me a defeatist attitude is when you tell yourself you can't do something and never try. And to think that money or tools will make you a better craftsman if you don't have the basic skills to begin with is far fetched. I could buy the best surgical tools in the world, study all the best books, talk to all the best surgeons, and still never be even a good brain surgeon. Seeing and learning from others will make you good, better, but not always the best. Jim S

 

[mark james]

Maybe do a "Hall of Fame" where people vote for you to be in, sort of like a Pen Makers Guild.....think that will work? You could use the poll....let it run for a week. Just an idea...

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f11/members-best-forum-38925/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/hall-fame-113146/

Many pros/cons were voiced. Very "lively" discussions...

 

[Skie_M]

We already have an IAP collection forum that showcases the best of what the IAP has to offer ....

We already have a Library that can help people get down to the nitty gritty on how to make some fabulous blanks ....


We still need some tutorials on polyclay, stone working, some types of metalworking, and possibly some of the newer casting techniques and segmenting techniques ...

We possibly need a set of basic tutorials describing, in detail, finish sanding and finishing techniques for a wide array of pens and materials ...

We could probably use a great tutorial for basic kitless pen making ... what you could use to get started, what's essential, what's optional, ect ...


After all that stuff, we might be able to use an archival page where members could vote a pen into, as an example of WHAT WE WANT THE NEXT TUTORIALS TO COVER.



I'ld love to see this place grow even more ... not as an elitist affair, where only the top dogs hobnob and show off their super-secret results and hide their techniques to protect their product line .... but as a center of learning, sharing, and friendship, where people come to learn from the best and bring some wonder into the lives of everybody around them.

 

[jttheclockman]

Maybe do a "Hall of Fame" where people vote for you to be in, sort of like a Pen Makers Guild.....think that will work? You could use the poll....let it run for a week. Just an idea...

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f11/members-best-forum-38925/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/hall-fame-113146/

Many pros/cons were voiced. Very "lively" discussions...

Thanks Mark for digging those links out. Many things were discussed there and the pros and cons. If I may be so bold to say this was one of the leading factors to you starting the project that you did. Your project has been an instant hit and will only continue to grow. No reason this could not happen here as well.

 

[CREID]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sorry I don't make kitless pens.
I am sorry you have to wade through post of mine to get to the elite people.
Actually, i'm not sorry, well I am sorry that you would actually think the rest of us aren't posting something worthy of you scrolling through.
Here is a suggestion. Go to wordpress.com and there you can start a site, blog or whatever for free and you can sit there and marvel at all your own pens and not bother with us lower folks.
You know I just thought of something, I really appreciate the craftsmanship, the imagination and time spent on the kitless pens. But to be honest, I like the kit pens better, the craftsmanship, the imagination and the time to do a great job turning, selecting just the right blank and even rejecting turned blanks because they are just not right. I enjoy the pride that people have in the pens they make from their kits. I really think you need to sit back and think.
Curt

 

[bobleibo]

Why do we need to start segregating people into groups based on skill level? This site is not designed to be that way. For as long as I have been around, it has been a place where ANYONE could come and learn new things and show off their pens to others who can offer praise or constructive critiques - positive ones. Who am I to decide if a pen qualifies for some self-professed wow factor or skill level? If I don't have the time to look at what I feel are lessor quality works of art, that's my problem, not theirs. I don't think it encourages anyone to "step up to the next level" by dangling the proverbial carrot in this particular environment and let us not forget that not everyone has the time, resources or desire to do so. Some people just want to turn a nice pen, make some new friends and enjoy the hobby side of it.

Never forget, at one time each of us turned our very first pen~

 

[JimB]

I've made 'BIC' pens. Since they are kitless would they go in the new SOYP forum if it's created:biggrin:

 

[BJohn]

Your Signature is "John T" I made the assumption.

My whole point being I don't think segregating the more experience turners from every one else is not fair toany one. I would be willing to say that you have seen something from a new guy that gave you a AH-HUH moment.

Do I think a Hall of Fame archive is a good idea (yeah). entries can be entered once a month or 12 each year. Voted on by all the membership (in a straight up vote) no runners up or run offs for a tie. We already have something similar to that with the pens that tour around.

Also like the earlier post and like your statement this a public forum and no direct rude or mean comments are made or should be applied toward anyone. As my bride and I will be touring Europe again in the next couple years, and since we did not get to Great Britain on the last trip. We will for sure be on the next and the possibility of meeting some turners from all of Europe is high on our list. Maybe we can meet for some fish and chips and a pint.

 

[liljohn1368]

As a new pen turner this makes me feel really welcome here.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Please note that this is just a suggestion from a member - no need to get upset or annoyed.

We all have our own ideas - that's what make these sorts of Forums work!

 

[liljohn1368]

Im not going anywhere. I love it.

 

[H2O]

I've only made a few pens, one of which I believe I posted a picture of. So, I doubt I would ever make it into an elitist club or have the ability and/or money to do what some people have shown they can do.
I started this pen thing, just to try something new. It's nothing more than a hobby and I don't foresee myself investing a bunch of time or obscene amounts of money into something I will never recover.

I apologize for forcing anyone to take a few seconds to scroll past my inadequate submission. I was slightly proud of my accomplishment.

 

[CREID]

Why do we need to start segregating people into groups based on skill level? This site is not designed to be that way. For as long as I have been around, it has been a place where ANYONE could come and learn new things and show off their pens to others who can offer praise or constructive critiques - positive ones. Who am I to decide if a pen qualifies for some self-professed wow factor or skill level? If I don't have the time to look at what I feel are lessor quality works of art, that's my problem, not theirs. I don't think it encourages anyone to "step up to the next level" by dangling the proverbial carrot in this particular environment and let us not forget that not everyone has the time, resources or desire to do so. Some people just want to turn a nice pen, make some new friends and enjoy the hobby side of it.

Never forget, at one time each of us turned our very first pen~

I think we should be able to hit like as many times as "I" want. "I" want to like this post 7 times.
Curt
ps "I" am a mere mortal, I once turned my very first pen.
"I" also posted my first photo once and although my photography was horrible, "I" really appreciated the comments from the people here.

 

[mark james]

We already have an IAP collection forum that showcases the best of what the IAP has to offer ....

Hi Greg:

Actually, that is not the intent of the IAP Collection (partially yes, but not as a whole). While it does and will in the future preserve what I and others consider some of IAP's Best, it is more of a physical preservation of "what we do."

An example (sorry to pick on you Jim...:tongue

The pen that Plantman made is an example of "thinking outside of the box" and was an effort to show how a very respectable pen could be made while you waited for your new lathe to arrive! Is it a world famous pen in respect to kit/materials/finish, etc? No, but it represents an element of IAP - Innovation. And, in 10 years, it can be an example to newer penturners to THINK! And TRY!

So back to the OP: The IAP Collection is not a "Hall of Fame." That is a topic that as we can see has been discussed previously, and has many pros and cons. And I suspect will be debated again.

To Be Clear: IAP Collection - A Physical archive of what IAP does (well, some of it!!!)

A Hall of Fame Forum - A different topic.

 

[mark james]

Thanks Mark for digging those links out. Many things were discussed there and the pros and cons. If I may be so bold to say this was one of the leading factors to you starting the project that you did. Your project has been an instant hit and will only continue to grow. No reason this could not happen here as well.

Hi JT:

Yes, it was an impetus. And not only why, but how. Yes, there is overlap, but this topic from Brad and you and Lee is still to be debated. I see both sides of the reasoning, and that is one reason I structured the IAP Collection to be more inclusive - It can be whatever the membership makes it into. I am now replaceable and the Collection will grow on it's own.

Brad: I wanted to clarify this simply to keep the IAP Collection OUT of the discussion you have started!!! Especially since it is actually a different animal (one is physical, the other can be online) - and evidently not easy to be tamed!

Cheers!

 

[BradG]

If you have somehow been offended by me I apologise, that's not my intention

But I believe in free speech and feel part of a community where I can speak freely.

These are my opinions. I'm entitled to them. By sharing them I will either be told I'm wrong, or someone will come along and steer it into a better idea. Keep in mind the ideology behind a forum.

 

[Skie_M]

If you have somehow been offended by me I apologise, that's not my intention

But I believe in free speech and feel part of a community where I can speak freely.

These are my opinions. I'm entitled to them. By sharing them I will either be told I'm wrong, or someone will come along and steer it into a better idea. Keep in mind the ideology behind a forum.

I don't care who's opinion it is or what it's about, if it's an opinion, it is NEVER WRONG. Your opinions may help serve others to change their opinions or ways of thinking, and that's a great thing. Their opinions may do the same for your thoughts and thinking ... that's also a great thing. Forums are for sharing.

Your opinions are how you feel or think about something, and sharing your opinions is what a forum is all about. I like many of the opinions around here, and I like the new ideas and things that I've seen and imagined since joining up.

I have the opinion that we shouldn't force people to believe that one thing is better than another simply because they can't do it yet or haven't succeeded at doing it yet, or haven't even tried to do it yet.

I don't think that "keeping the newbies out of the cool kid's club" by picking and choosing certain pen types or styles to showcase is the way to go at all ....

But I do think that showing and teaching new techniques and styles could go a very very long way towards making this forum last forever. And by asking our membership what they think we should focus on figuring out how to do next, I think we could make such things happen faster and more dynamically, by getting input from many people to solve the issues and problems faced by just a few who are trying it out.



Crowdsourcing ... the application of a large number of people to find solutions to a few problems at a time .... just like running a supercomputer compared to a simple personal computer. The size of the problem will no longer matter.

 

[builtbybill]

...We could probably use a great tutorial for basic kitless pen making ... what you could use to get started, what's essential, what's optional, ect ...

I would LOVE to see a tutorial/video on how to get started in the kitless world. I keep wanting to make the leap but honestly have no idea where to start (i.e. basic tools, shapes, measurements etc.).

So for all of the people that think kitless is the ONLY way to make pens worthy of display how about helping those of us that would like to learn. All you have to do is take some photos, or just record to whole process, and then we too can "feel proud" of our pens.

I am not trying to upset anyone with my comments but us noobs are not trying to compete with the "elite" pen makers we just want to try and emulate your accomplishments. Some of us just need a little push and some help along the way. I am sorry, though, if it does upset anyone but I am just of the personality that I have never said ""ha ha I can do this (fill in the blank) and you can't", I am of the personality that I say "I noticed you are having a hard time with this, would you like me to show you how I do it?"

I have received a reputation as being pretty good with photography (not that you can tell from my photos posted here since I do not have a light box, yet, since I usually do outside work and I am new to the pen photo world...never knew it would be so artistic). I cannot even begin count how many times I have been at events and had people stop me to ask for help on anything from technique to equipment, and EVERY single time I stopped and talked with them to the point that I was sure I had helped them. Never once did I say, or imply, that I had to learn on my own so you do too, and I have never had an elitist attitude that any of my photos, or equipment, were any better than anyone elses, except my wife but that is a whole other story.

Again, sorry for rambling but I came to this site for the sole purpose of learning, and hopefully making friends along the way, but lately there have been too many posts that make me feel like us average/beginning penmakers are not worthy. Please do not get me wrong there have been tons of people here that have been very supportive (Roy, Marla, Smitty and Ed for example) but I have also seen my fair share of "stop asking for help and figure it out, the only way to learn is to make mistakes and not duplicate them again, eventually you will figure out what works" and "why don't you do a search before you ask, this question has been asked too many times and the answers are out there if you search." If someone can take the time to write these comments then why not just use that same amount of time and typing to help someone.

Thanks for "listening".

Bill

 

[mredburn]

In the Library with the candle stick..... no wait thats a different Forum
IN the Library under Taps and dies for kitless pens
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/taps_dies_kitless.pdf
This should give you a place to start.

 

[mredburn]

By the way, we do have Advanced Pen Making Forum for kitless pens. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f56/
We have a Fountain Pens Forum http://www.penturners.org/forum/f50/