Sawstop

[elody21]

I have been saving for at least a year for a new table saw. The Sawstop on that stops if your finger gets in the way. Anyway I accesed the site and they now do not have the $800.00 model. The only one priced is $2000.00, which I do not have the room or the money for. Does anyone else have the sawstop table saw? I remember when I brought the subject up a year ago there were some very heated thoughts about this saw.
Alice

 

[Fangar]

Looks to be a very nice saw and I don't want to discourage you, but really there are very nice saws on the market at half that price. My fear is that a saw like this seems to make people feel that they are safe around a tool like this. There is no substitute for shop saftey around the board, but the technology is truly amazing, I will say that.

That being said, you might contact the dealer nearest you. I am not sure how far away from you they are, but they do have an 800 number:

Wood Werks Supply, Inc.
1530 North Old Rand Road- SHOWROOM
Wauconda, IL 60084
847-526-1411

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[Daniel]

Alice,
can't help you much. I'm still using my craftsman contractors table saw. and your post has more info on the saw stop saw than I could come up with. my thought on what happened to the 800 dollar model is that I seem to remember there being a lot of bad comments that it was way over priced or something. not even real sure about that.
personally I would like to see the saw stop developed to fit any table saw you could want to buy.
I will oone day buy a nice table saw, and I already know I want a Delta unisaw or equivilant. I would pay an extra $100 or $200 for a saw stop mechanism for that saw as well. this may fall into those nasty comments catagory but I just have a hard time taking a real hard look at a saw that costs as much as top of the line saws when it's number one quality is that the blade will not turn []
that was ment to be a joke. seriously, I just have not heard much said about the overall quality of the saw stop saws to be limited to there brand.
sorry I can't help you with finding the one you want.
what is the URl for the saw stop site by the way?

 

[leehljp]

I have been in on several discussions on the saw over the past 3 or 4 years. It has been in development for a good while. There are a couple of problems with the saw as it is now.

1. The high cost of replacing a blade and brake system once triggered. While that is better than having a hand/finger amputated, not everyone can afford the price of parts replacement everytime it is triggered, especially if it happens several times.
2. Even some green woods will trigger it. This can get expensive and for sure there will be an owner or two who would bring a law suit against the company if it constantly triggers on wood with a little too much moisture.

The idea of the safety is wonderful, but if you had to pay $1000 for 4 sets of brakes and blades because of green wood or someone who wanted to test it by sticking a weenie to it - That would get old fast.

I like the concept, but I cannot afford it. I use a quick removable and quick replacable blade guard as my primary safety feature (10 seconds to take off, 10 seconds to put back on). I think that the difficulty of removing and replaceing the blade guards are the main reason most people leave them off - which then leads to accidents. The second major accident problem with table saws is the kickback. Riving knifes are the primary preventers of kickbacks.

Safety is as much in the head as it is with the machine.

Concerning the $800 machine not being offered anymore, I would love to find out the reason.

 

[Daniel]

Alice I found the sight myself and poked around. it looks like there contractors saw is under development right now and it says it will be available in late 2006. this may be the saw you where thinking of and it is getting a revamp. I remember seeing comments from the company about new saws being developed etc nearly two years ago. but it doesn't seem to be happening. from what I can tell they now only have one saw to offer, one on the way, and two, a chop saw and a band saw, being considered.
I would contact them directly and see if they know where you can locate the saw you want. just because they don't have it on there web site any more doesn't mean there is not one out there setting on a show room floor somewhere.

 

[Daniel]

Alice,
boy you got me hooked on this subject. I would really like you to be able to find your saw. If you have spent a year saving and determined that this is the saw you want then I get your mind is pretty well made up for whatever easons you have.
I did a google search and found the dealers for your state, not sure they are in your area though. here they are.
Illinois

Wood Werks Supply, Inc.
1530 North Old Rand Road- SHOWROOM
Wauconda, IL 60084
847-526-1411

Bay Verte Machinery, Inc. - Northern Illinois
Contact Green Bay, WI Location for Northern Illinois Representative.
920-336-7440


Depco, LLC (Education Customers Only)

Contact Pittsburg, KS Location for Illinois Representative.

800-767-1062

I am not necessarily trying to talk you out of your choice of saws, but more with an attitude of informing you of options. there are other methods of remaining safe with a table saw. one of my favorite is what I call an arm over blade guard. it solves the problem of needing to remove the guard in almost all cases. your finger cannot come into contact with the blade as long as it is in place. and it will not get in the way of cutting large pieces of wood like plywood sheets.
I'll se if I can find a picture of a saw with one installed. they are expensive but work very well.
I'll se what else I can find on the stopsaw as well.

 

[elody21]

Thanks guys for all of your thoughts! I e-mailed them (Sawstop) this morning so I am hoping to get a reply maybe Monday. I will let you know what they say. I guess I just was so upset that I finally got the money saved and now it is gone. My saw is a very small Skilsaw. Probably the least expensive one could find. I have outgrown it and want something more precise but it still has to be as small as I can get. Any ideas on a different brand that is good quality? I would love to find one for less than the $800.00 I have saved. Thanks a bunch! It is nice to have all you big brothers to give me feedback! Alice

 

[penbros]

i would get the grizzly G1023SL. it is rated best value in the Fine Woodworking magazine (june 2006)that means its cheap. its over $2300 cheaper than a saw stop[]
saw stop:$3,300
grizzly:$975

sound good?

 

[Daniel]

still looking through my google search but wanted to share this comment from a woodworking forum.

The Sawstop is a monster of a saw. Due to how the safety feature works (stopping a blade with a rim speed of 100 mph in a split second), they had to build the saw with heavier castings, trunnions, etc. In terms of construction, a Unisaw isn't even close to the Sawstop in how well it's built. The Powermatic is closer, but still a good bit behind. General is probably the closest to Sawstop on the market and even they are good bit behind. You won't find a saw that is made better than the Sawstop. However, you're talking about some serious coin to buy one. I priced one with a 5HP motor and 52" fence. It was $3,700 without adding in delivery. You can almost buy 3 Unisaws for that money.

they are talking about the larger model that is to big for you. but defenitly rave reviews on the quality. the rest of the comments in thsi thread where simular. one neg in the comments was cost of replacement parts and availability.

another comment that caught my eye was this one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen one at a local company "Brian's Tools" It looks like one heck of a saw, but I have not personally used one. They have nothing but praise for it.

They also said they sell most of them to the schools in the area, he said with everyone being so sue happy these days that they will be the only saw allowed in a school and eventually most shops.

made me think you might find one second hand from schools etc. a long shot but at least one more idea.

as for suggestions on other good saws. I would repeat the grizzly suggestion above. put the blade guard on it. and never ever ever cut without it on. if the saw will not cut what you want with the guard on. find anouther way to get it cut. or find a guard that will allow you to make that cut.
you don't need the brake on the saw stop if your finger cannot touch the blade in the first place. the saw stop does not fix the second leading reason for accidents with the table saw which is kick back. most blade guards do. at least to some extent.

remember most woodworkers like the idea of the sawstop because they are also in the practice of using saws with the guard removed. a pratice that even I am guilty of. stupid but pretty much universaly true that the guard on a table saw leaves about as fast as the first blade gets installed.
this is because most guards are either in the way, are clumsy to work with, or limit the thickness of material you can cut, or prevent you from being able to see the blade actually cutting the wood. there are guards that solve all or most of these problems and function so well you hardly know they are there. and they will cost far less than the $2300 noted above.

 

[Daniel]

I e-mailed Alice about this but wanted to ad it to this post for general population consumption.
after reading 4 pages of my google search, which consisted either of articals about the sawstop, or forum threads discussing it. I have pretty much made an about face.
one Alice is looking for a contractors saw not a cabinet saw.
Grizzly has 4 contractor grade saws ranging in price from $495 - $615.
comments I have read are unanimous that the sawstop saw beats Delta, Grizzly and Jet hands down for quality. so I will use the top price grizzly saw as the price base.
take the $615 and add $150 for the saw stop brake and you have $765. the $800 contractors saw Alice wants has not yet been released, it says it will be in late 2006. $150 to prevent your fingers from getting cut off, and an extra $45 for the better quality saw sounds like a good deal to me.
even the cost of having to replace the brake and blade after it trips is a plus if you consider teh cost of the alternative. the only neg. I see at this point would be accidentaly tripping the brake which can happen when cutting green wood (as in wet not in color). I'm changing my vote to wait a while longer and get your sawstop.

 

[DCWoodworks]

Originally posted by leehljp
<br />I have been in on several discussions on the saw over the past 3 or 4 years. It has been in development for a good while. There are a couple of problems with the saw as it is now.


2. <b>Even some green woods will trigger it. This can get expensive and for sure there will be an owner or two who would bring a law suit against the company if it constantly triggers on wood with a little too much moisture.</b>

DIY tools and techniques had the people from sawstop demonstrate the saw on the show a few months back. In order to prevent "accidental" tripping of the mechanism, they devised this. There is a light near the power switch (I think its near the switch). What you do is keep the power shut off to the saw, and touch the wood against the blade. If it is wet and will trip the mechanism, the light will come on or turn a different color. If the light doesnt come on, the piece is ok to cut. I believe you need a fresh cut on the end for it to register though.

 

[penhead]

I have also been reading about this for a while now.
and interestingly enough, saw a sign in my local Woodcraft....."Sawstop - coming soon!"

 

[Pipes]

IMHO IF the tec is there and it seems to be !! Every saw co in the world a have a version very very soon remember this is just IMO !!! I have a ok table saw and am NOT looking for one BUT IF it becomes a common thing I would add it to MY saw or even consider a new saw with it ! BUT not just fot that on it alone ! It first has to be a GOOD saw and one I like for sawing ![]





http://affordablepipes.com/

 

[Buzz]

Hard to imagine spending so much on a safety device on one type of saw when others such as the bandsaw and drop saw don't have it fitted. Safe working methods should be developed for all machinery. I'd be concerned for the possibility of someone perhaps becoming a little blasé one one saw, and taking poor work practices to another type of machine.

 

[JHFerrell]

Really feel like I have to jump in here on this one. The Woodcraft store I work in has a Sawstop tablesaw on the showroom floor. It is the 3 horse cabinet saw and is, in my opinion, a magnificent machine. I'm not going to go into any kind of "sales pitch" or anything or bore you all with a lot of details about the safety features...sounds like you're pretty familiar with most of them anyway. The saw we have on display has a table that is within 2/1000's of an inch of dead flat. There is no measurable runout. (Those two items were determined by a customer, not a staff member) As for wet wood, the panel does have a couple of lights which represent various status codes depending on how they are lit up. If you really need or want to cut that piece of really wet wood, you can insert a key and bypass the braking system. As for the cost of changing out the mechanism, its less than $100.00 plus the price of whatever kind of blade you happen to use. And by the way, Sawstop originally tried marketing the braking mechanism to saw manufacturers...they wanted nothing to do with it. Alice, don't give up your search...it really is a great saw!

 

[AJM]

I have used the sawstop. We have one at work. It is a very well built saw. It is also an industrial model not a contracters or hobby saw. We have a Unisaw, a general and a couple of other brands, there is no comparison to the sawstop. It is not cheap that's for sure but in a workplace where you have many users the saftey feature is ideal. We also must leave the saftey guard on at all times. There are a few guy's that would have saved major damage to their fingers if bought sooner. The saw can be switched when you have a wet piece. I think that governments will reguire all saws to have this feature down the road in the workplace. The salesman told me that they are working on a sawstop bandsaw and even a shaper. Even with this saw I still wouldn't take a chance by using unsafe cutting practices but if an accident did happen it is nice to have this safety feature.

 

[woodbutcher]

I think a can of Dumb move stop would probably help a lot.[] Most table saw accidents do not involve the blade cutting you. Improper use and adjustment cause pieces od wood fired off the saw at velocities that scare the mostfoolhardy.
Jim

 

[KC]

Is this a statistic?

KC

 

[elody21]

wow! I am back form my Wisc. family outing and I find tuns of info!! Thanks to all who have responded.! I knew I could count on you.
I think I will at least wait until the (new)contractors model comes out of the Saw Stop so I can see what the cost will be. I know a finger is worth much more than a replacing a blade and brake system but it does concern me about accendental tripings of the brake. I was not aware that it also ruined your blade. Bummer. Because I cut alot of corian I have pretty expensive blades. I also cut a fair amount of green wood for processing into pen blanks and bowl blanks, but if there is a bypass swith I guess that would work. It is difficult to decide when you have limited space and budget. I would like this to be my last table saw I have to buy so I want to get the right one.
In my dads day it was easy, he bought everything at Sears!
thanks again everyone. I am going to print out all the responses and while waiting for the Sawstop to come out I plan on checking out other contractors models. If my Woodcraft got the Sawstop that would make checking it out easer! I will ask and see if they plan on having one.
Have a great 4th of July! Alice

 

[Rifleman1776]

There is currently a long discussion on this subject at Sawmill Creek. Most of the comments are similar to what we have seen here. The bottom line is that buying or not buying a Saw Stop is a personal decision. The quandry is safety vs. cost. Many millions of woodworkers use table saws for many years without an accident. OTOH it just takes a second of carelessness to lose a finger, or several fingers. What to do cannot be answered by others.

 

[elody21]

You are right Frank. I do have a very healthy respect for anything with a spinning blade! It is nice to gather the opinions of others that either know about or have used the sawstop. The idea originally came from my husband who worries about my safety and then I began to like it too. One should never count on things like this to work instead of being safe. The truth is the table saw as a machine scares the %#@&! out of me. This is actually a gook thing because I always watch where the blade and my fingers are, but accidents do happen. I am for anything that might keep me just a little safer if I have a moment of distraction. Thanks so much for your input!
Take care, Alice

 

[penhead]

Personally, I agree with you 100% Frank.
However, especially these days, I am betting an entity such as schools are looking at the possibility of paying a small hospital bill vs being sued out the ying/yang for their child losing a finger.

Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />There is currently a long discussion on this subject at Sawmill Creek. Most of the comments are similar to what we have seen here. The bottom line is that buying or not buying a Saw Stop is a personal decision. The quandry is safety vs. cost. Many millions of woodworkers use table saws for many years without an accident. OTOH it just takes a second of carelessness to lose a finger, or several fingers. What to do cannot be answered by others.

 

[huntersilver]

I have seen this saw before, and the safety feature is
incredible, but the extra expense is too much. Most times
I am more worried about a large piece of hardwood flying
towards my face. Of course that depends if you stand to the
right or left side of the blade[]

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am there with Alice. The table saw scares me, it is the least used tool in my shop. And when I use it I always wish I was standing six feet away. A feature like the Saw Stop is highly desirable, no doubt. But if I had to pay $2000.00 for a table saw, I just wouldn't/couldn't buy one. And, please believe me, I am very aware of the danger. My son is an emergency room physician and he wishes I didn't do the workshop thing. He sees a number of amputations or near-amps monthly. According to what he sees, the radial arm saw or miter saw is the most frequent villan for accidents. But the table saw is close behind in numbers, however with much worse consequences. In life, we do what we do and calculate the consequences. We cannot live in a closet. Whether our passion is motorcycling, ATVs, mountain climbing, scuba diving, flying, shooting sports, or woodworking, we are making choices aware of the risks.

 

[Daniel]

John,
according to one comment in all my reading yesterday, You are dead on. the jist of the comment was that one of the biggest consumers of the sawstop are schools looking to reduce there liability in wood shops. the inventor of the sawstop is having a terrible time getting it to catch on. maybe he should go visit some insurance companies and explain that the meat packing plants and other big saw users could actually do something about all the fingers, hands, and arms that get lost every year. might create some incentive for manufacturers that they actually care about.
I'm of the school of thought that if the sawstop brake was made available for any saw you wanted to buy, it would be less than a $100 addition. fingers are one thing and not a light one. but I've heard stories of an entire person getting pulled through saws. one of those stories came from an uncle of mine that worked in the plant where it happened.

 

[AJM]

I have alot of experience with tablesaws, I use them almost everyday, that said I have alot of respect for power tools. I do remember how scary it was the first time I used one. I also have 15 year old son and I would be very happy if his school used a sawstop, I don't care how much it costs. I also know that I can't afford one for the home shop, so hopefuly they catch on in the trade so that the price can start comming down. As for kickbacks you can learn where to stand and not get hit, also guards help alot. The worst accidents I have seen is when the wood kicked and the hand kept moving forward into the blade, no guard was in place. Binding causes most kickbacks, riving knives help prevent binding or a guard with antikickback teeth. One problem I have found with cheaper saws is that the guard is very hard to align which causes binding itself. SO people end up leaving the guard off because it seems safer. There are over the blade guards that hang from a beam that just covers the blade, these guards don't prevent kickback from binding wood all the do is cover the blade. Our company has tried many types and brands of saw guards with mixed results. We have not found the perfect guard, but I like the sawstop because they really think outside the box and maybe it will evolve into something safer and cheaper, but they are groundbreakers in this design.

 

[leehljp]

Alice,

Thinking of myself and my experience, and usually my advice to other individuals - We have to deal with safety versus cost and we often argue in the direction that safety begns in the mind. BUT, since your husband is the one who originated the idea, I can identify 100% with him. Persue the Saw Stop as much as you can. I have great admiration for your husband and I don't even know his name!

 

[Rifleman1776]

This very same discussion at Sawmill Creek is getting very lengthy. Obviously, we all have concerns (fears?) about our safety. Methinks that if the Saw Stop people would sell rights to their system to other manufacturers, they would make more money than reaching the relatively few buyers they do now. As for the riving knife issue, I took off my guard/riving thingy. Bindings and kick-backs scare me, I can't control that with the guard on. Without it, I can stand to the side and keep my pinkies way-away with pushers and such.

 

[leehljp]

Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />. . . As for the riving knife issue, I took off my guard/riving thingy. Bindings and kick-backs scare me, I can't control that with the guard on. Without it, I can stand to the side and keep my pinkies way-away with pushers and such.

Frank,

The reason you stated is the reason many people leave the guard off. A second part to that is the fact that it takes too long to take it off and put it back on. Maybe once, but two or three times on a given project in one day? Too much trouble.

There is a cure for that and it is called a "Shark Guard". Quick on and quick off. Take the Guard <b>off</b> and yet leave the riving knife <b>on</b>. Replace the guard in 10 seconds or less.

I have two Shark Guards, was in on the original discussions that triggered this creation about 4 years ago. The fact that you leave the riving knife ON while the guard is off, keeps the <b>safety</b> factor against kickbacks real high. Because it is so easy to take on and off, people (Shark Guard owners) do use the guards a lot more than they do their OEM guards. Again, a big increase in safety.

Check the riving knife and guard out at this site:
http://www.leestyron.com/sharkguard.php

 

[Daniel]

Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br /> Methinks that if the Saw Stop people would sell rights to their system to other manufacturers, they would make more money than reaching the relatively few buyers they do now.

Actually they went to the major manufacturers first. nobody would be the first to take the plunge. It seems they all really liked the idea but are nto sure the customer woudl be willing to absorb the added cost.
so the maker of the sawstop started making his own saws. from what I read he does not want to be in the business of making saws he wants to license the use of the brake to those that do.
I guess you can't just take the devise and attach it to any saw. the whole unnards of the saw have to be beefed up to withstand the forces when the brake activates.

 

[bgray]

I own the 3hp SawStop, and I gotta tell you, even without the safety system, it's still a superior saw than a Unisaw, PM 66, or Jet.

You said that it would cost around 2k. Actually, once you put shipping, taxes, the whole package into it, it's a little over 3k. However, in my opinion, worth every penny.

Originally posted by leehljp
<br />I have been in on several discussions on the saw over the past 3 or 4 years. It has been in development for a good while. There are a couple of problems with the saw as it is now.

1. The high cost of replacing a blade and brake system once triggered. While that is better than having a hand/finger amputated, not everyone can afford the price of parts replacement everytime it is triggered, especially if it happens several times.
2. Even some green woods will trigger it. This can get expensive and for sure there will be an owner or two who would bring a law suit against the company if it constantly triggers on wood with a little too much moisture.

The idea of the safety is wonderful, but if you had to pay $1000 for 4 sets of brakes and blades because of green wood or someone who wanted to test it by sticking a weenie to it - That would get old fast.

I like the concept, but I cannot afford it. I use a quick removable and quick replacable blade guard as my primary safety feature (10 seconds to take off, 10 seconds to put back on). I think that the difficulty of removing and replaceing the blade guards are the main reason most people leave them off - which then leads to accidents. The second major accident problem with table saws is the kickback. Riving knifes are the primary preventers of kickbacks.

Safety is as much in the head as it is with the machine.

Concerning the $800 machine not being offered anymore, I would love to find out the reason.

Well, some of that isn't correct. The cost of an accidental trigger is around $130. 50 for the blade, and 80 for the cartridge. I haven't had any accidental triggers in two years. I've cut pressure treated and wet wood without any triggers.

You said that wet wood will trigger the cartridge. This is incorrect. Wet wood will be detected, but will not cause a trigger to the brake system. The computer will simply shut down the saw without activating the brake if the wood is really wet. Wood would have to be dripping wet to trigger the brake.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by Daniel
<br />

Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br /> Methinks that if the Saw Stop people would sell rights to their system to other manufacturers, they would make more money than reaching the relatively few buyers they do now.

Actually they went to the major manufacturers first. nobody would be the first to take the plunge. It seems they all really liked the idea but are nto sure the customer woudl be willing to absorb the added cost.
so the maker of the sawstop started making his own saws. from what I read he does not want to be in the business of making saws he wants to license the use of the brake to those that do.
I guess you can't just take the devise and attach it to any saw. the whole unnards of the saw have to be beefed up to withstand the forces when the brake activates.

I saw your earlier post after I had put mine up. I'll venture a guess that the lawyers got in the picture and prevented the manufacturers from buying the SS system. If a company promotes something as safer then there is an accident their exposure (meaning dollar cost) goes way-way up. Without the SS system the user cannot blame the company that made the saw for an accident. ( I could digress here and point out that many are suing gun manufacturers for careless/deliberate injuries with their products. but I won't) In some ways our civil legal system is screwed up. Oops, I'm digressing again. It's a shame. If the SS system were put on many different machines, the cost would drop dramatically and it might become a standard feature on lots of things, even outside the wood shop.

 

[elody21]

I am so plesaed with all of this info! It looks at all of the different sides of the issue. When the new improved contractors model of the SS comes out it too might be out of my reach. I hope not. I'll have to wait and see. I have a very cheap table saw now and have had the same problems with binding. As far as kick back I have learned to stand to one side. Most of the time this works but, there have been times where the wood hits my hand or fingers. Ouch!!!!!!!!! Frank is right one cannot hide from danger, just do the best they know to stay safe and careful. It is too bad the manufactures of table saws did not take the break system seriously.
Alice

 

[elody21]

Well, I got a response from SawStop today. When the new model of the contractors saw comes out it will be around $1000.00. $800.00 was already a big stretch for me and with the fact that I could have to cut part of my work table off the fit it in it looks like I will be checking out other contractors saws. Thanks everone for their input. Alice