Polygonal Facets

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Wmcullen

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I’m not sure if this process is right or wrong; unique or common. But it works for me and I want to share in case it's interesting.​
20: Polygonal Facets
last post: 19- Facets with a Twist
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Building on my hexagonal facet jig, I made guides for 5 through 9-sided shapes.
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The Jig
More information about its construction can be found in the original post.
It works with my router table and can configure to reference five shapes, including a hexagon which I wrote about last time.
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The 5, 7, 8 and 9 sided blanks.
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Examples
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A 5-sided pen with twisting facets. I think it came out the most angular and interesting to hold.

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A 7-sided top that tapers to smooth bottom.

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This 8-sided pen has a straight facet until the top inch where it begins to twist.

3D Files
I'm happy to share 3D files with anyone who is curious about what I put together.
I'm not recommending anyone try this themselves but just showing what I've done.
As always the files are provided as-is. File: FacetJig2.zip.

Thanks for looking!
- Cullen
 

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jttheclockman

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Now this is just one man's opinion but I think you are trying to hard to put too many aspects of the design together. Yes the facets look fine and twisted look different but maybe it is the pen choice but not a fan. If I were to choose I would stick with less facets and keep them straight. Maybe a beefier kit too. Again just my opinion. Your work with the printer thing is exceptional and shows you have talent there.
 
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Wmcullen

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Now this is just one man's opinion but I think you are trying to hard to put too many aspects of the design together. Yes the facets look fine and twisted look different but maybe it is the pen choice but not a fan. If I were to choose I would stick with less facets and keep them straight. Maybe a beefier kit too. Again just my opinion. Your work with the printer thing is exceptional and shows you have talent there.
Thanks. I have a few more ideas to brainstorm on this theme. At the end of the day I expect to come out with a few designs I’m really proud of… and a heap of “attempts.” 😉
 

KenB259

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These are designs you should be very proud of. As far as I know, you’re the only doing these and you designed and built the tooling and the results are nothing short of amazing.
 

leehljp

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You know it is rude o_O to make one-off jigs like this and not offer them for sale to the rest of us! 😁

Ken said it best:
These are designs you should be very proud of. As far as I know, you’re the only doing these and you designed and built the tooling and the results are nothing short of amazing.
 

magpens

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I agree with Ken ..... BRAVO !!! . . . Absolutely great !!!

Just one thing ... and ONLY one ... I'd prefer a smooth taper down to the metal nib piece.
 

PatrickR

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fantastic! This is a real winner. Run to a patent lawyer before these start showing up for sale. You are doing things previously thought only possible with an expensive device.
I’m not crazy about some of the shapes, or slimlines in general but there are many possibilities here.
very ingenious!
 

Wmcullen

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Thanks so much.
I was talking over with my son the question of how to offer printed copies of these designs without killing my little printer. Some way to outsource the printing... like how a local OfficeDepot can print and bind a pdf file.
He said it's a strange time in the economic history of 3D printing. Cheap-o machines are inexpensive enough that a non-rich person can afford one. Meanwhile high-end 3D printers can still charge a premium. The result is that the mid-level "copy shops" that I want in every town just don't really have a way to exist. There seem to be lots of promises that different national chains will offer 3D printing services, but it's still a bit untested. Hopefully that will change. Or, more likely, 3D printing will become less complicated, more reliable and as easy to use and inexpensive as a laser printer.
In the meantime, I am happy to provide the 3D files. In fact, I loaded a bunch of files into the new IAP 3D Print Files Resource Page.
If anyone knows a good way to share final prints with folks, I'd love to listen.
: )
 

Wmcullen

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Just one thing ... and ONLY one ... I'd prefer a smooth taper down to the metal nib piece.
Thanks Mal... I'm realizing there's a growing matrix of possibilities and some combinations are "working" better than others. This kind of feedback is very helpful. Much appreciated!

fantastic! This is a real winner. Run to a patent lawyer before these start showing up for sale. You are doing things previously thought only possible with an expensive device.
I’m not crazy about some of the shapes, or slimlines in general but there are many possibilities here.
very ingenious!
Thanks Patrick! No patent lawyers needed... I'm just fooling around with cheap plastic. ;)
Your point about the shapes is well-taken. I was experimenting to see if it really matters to the look or feel of having a 9-sided vs 7-sided shape. I'm still assessing but my initial take is that it doesn't. I think a 5-sided and 8-sided option cover the spread nicely.
And your point about slimlines is spot on. These facets probably look better on thicker pens. For some reason I've stubbornly stuck to slimline kits. IMHO they max out at about a 0.5" diameter. Larger than that and the nib and clip look poorly proportioned... like a Boeing 747 Dreamlifter. Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Curly

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Hey! No ragging on the Dreamlifter. I measured the pressure bulkheads that separates the cockpit from the oversized cargo area. It's functionally beautiful. ;)

You have innovated a new way of making facets, straight and spiral and can be proud of that. I can see a way of making the spiral change from left to right using that system. The "piston" short and the spiral reversing halfway down the "nut". Another variation if you will. I'll leave it to you as I don't like playing with CAD etc. By using the tip of a small core box router bit your jig can cut flutes and beading router bits would make beads. A straight bit would leave grooves you could fill by casting in resin. Upsizing would let one make interesting pepper mills. You have many possibilities at your fingertips and you are just beginning. Well done.
 

duncsuss

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I mostly make custom/kitless/call-it-what-you-will pens and have made straight facets using the PennState fluting jig with a square-end router bit. It leaves a lot to be desired - cutting with the end leaves a lot of swirls that are a pain to sand out.

I'm trying to come up with ways to adapt your design to work with closed-end barrels - Carl Fisher recently modified a Pen Wizard to do it, which makes me feel it should be possible.

If I do work it out, I might need help doing the 3d design work - my only attempt was an utter disaster!
 

Wmcullen

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Hey! No ragging on the Dreamlifter. I measured the pressure bulkheads that separates the cockpit from the oversized cargo area. It's functionally beautiful. ;)

You have innovated a new way of making facets, straight and spiral and can be proud of that. I can see a way of making the spiral change from left to right using that system. The "piston" short and the spiral reversing halfway down the "nut". Another variation if you will. I'll leave it to you as I don't like playing with CAD etc. By using the tip of a small core box router bit your jig can cut flutes and beading router bits would make beads. A straight bit would leave grooves you could fill by casting in resin. Upsizing would let one make interesting pepper mills. You have many possibilities at your fingertips and you are just beginning. Well done.
I retract anything uncomplimentary I may have implied about the Dreamlifter's profile. It's an engineering marvel. :)
You really hit on a lot of ideas in a short span... only one of which I've been toying with. Thanks for sharing them!
 

leehljp

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Thanks. I have a few more ideas to brainstorm on this theme. At the end of the day I expect to come out with a few designs I’m really proud of… and a heap of “attempts.” 😉
I look forward to your new ideas and designs. This is exceptional!

One word of caution that has been mentioned already. Seriously consider design patents. There are several pen related designs and tools in existence, use and for sale from different companies in which the original design occurred with members here.

If you are OK with your designs being copied and sold commercially from other companies without you having compensation, then that is OK. For some, (and I am one of these) it is enough reward that the idea originated with them.
 

Wmcullen

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I mostly make custom/kitless/call-it-what-you-will pens and have made straight facets using the PennState fluting jig with a square-end router bit. It leaves a lot to be desired - cutting with the end leaves a lot of swirls that are a pain to sand out.

I'm trying to come up with ways to adapt your design to work with closed-end barrels - Carl Fisher recently modified a Pen Wizard to do it, which makes me feel it should be possible.

If I do work it out, I might need help doing the 3d design work - my only attempt was an utter disaster!
There are so many interesting options here. The one thing I keep coming back to is safety. I try to be super careful about what I'm putting in front of the router and remember that the 3D prints are "cheap plastic" that I don't want to rely on too heavily for structural integrity. Your project sounds really interesting.
 

Curly

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I look forward to your new ideas and designs. This is exceptional!

One word of caution that has been mentioned already. Seriously consider design patents. There are several pen related designs and tools in existence, use and for sale from different companies in which the original design occurred with members here.

If you are OK with your designs being copied and sold commercially from other companies without you having compensation, then that is OK. For some, (and I am one of these) it is enough reward that the idea originated with them.
The problem with patents is they are expensive to get and you have to be ready to enforce them. Not many have deep enough pockets to play that game. Since he has already generously posted them without a patent filed they are now in the public domain, making getting and enforcing patents much harder if not impossible. If he really wants to be the one and only he needs to get the concept refined quickly and then on the market before any other so as to be in a dominant position and be well known as the best way to go. A tall order.
 

Wmcullen

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Thanks Hank. What a great compliment in your caution. I’m just having fun with these designs and enjoy iterating them in this community. If I stumble across a million dollar idea I’ll play my card close to the vest.
 

jttheclockman

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I know there is a group here that love to jump on every word I say and it shows here once again but let me be clear, The work you are doing with these type designs and a fairly new tool that is hitting the market these days is extraordinary to say the least. I commend you for it and hope to see a ton more. You should be proud of your work. We encourage new and innovative ideas. With that said these are not new design aspects used on round material and made on lathes. All you need to do is look past the pen making aspect of it and you see these is railing dowels and spindles and many other objects. These can be accomplished using milling machines, routers mounted to lathes and even metal lathes where you have infinite control. What you are bringing to the table is a cheaper simpler way of doing these designs. I have shown my version of router use with a lathe before and had just one person take the idea and run with it. So my point on this do not knock yourself out trying to patent or make so many of these things because as cool as they look and people may love the idea you will not see many copying them. You are using a tool that most people are afraid of and that is a router. Again just my opinion.
 

Wmcullen

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Thanks John. No worries on knocking myself out. To be honest, since joining IAP it’s been a pretty self-indulgent ride trying a bunch of ideas that pop into my head. Sharing with the group is a lot of fun and I hope isn’t an imposition on anyone’s time. In case the reference hits home, I loved those W. Ben Hunt books on Native American crafts when I was young. I don’t think I actually made any of the crafts but I always loved seeing them and thinking through the process of manufacturing. I expect that’s the kind of energy we’re providing when we show off our designs and methods to others on this site… even if they don’t take an idea and run with it themselves.
 

jttheclockman

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Thanks John. No worries on knocking myself out. To be honest, since joining IAP it’s been a pretty self-indulgent ride trying a bunch of ideas that pop into my head. Sharing with the group is a lot of fun and I hope isn’t an imposition on anyone’s time. In case the reference hits home, I loved those W. Ben Hunt books on Native American crafts when I was young. I don’t think I actually made any of the crafts but I always loved seeing them and thinking through the process of manufacturing. I expect that’s the kind of energy we’re providing when we show off our designs and methods to others on this site… even if they don’t take an idea and run with it themselves.
That is the spirit. Nice words and glad you got my point. Eye candy is what we all love to see and enjoy here and when people show off their works it just adds something that speaks for itself and can be enjoyed. When I tried years ago getting this segmented forum going I envisioned more people jumping into segmenting but after so many years later I see it is just not something many can even attempt or at least they think that way. I pushed hard over the years and you can go back to many of my threads trying to urge more people get into segmenting and expanding their abilities in pen making. To that is where the fun is. Experimenting trying new things and even developing something that has not been seen. As I mentioned the 3D printer is a new tool that is hitting the markets in many fields and they are getting cheaper in price so playing around with them should become more opened. The hard part is being able to write code and put the ideas to work. You are doing this. It does give hope for others and those growing up with this technology should be able to take advantage of your willingness to share. Now getting others to try is not easy. Been there done that. But as always look forward to your ideas. Some I even am willing to try in my old school ways. Wish I had more time but they are ideas I have put in my head list for sure. Continue what you are doing. Good luck.
 

leehljp

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. . . You are using a tool that most people are afraid of and that is a router.
I wasn't aware of anyone being afraid of a router. But then I haven't read any router threads here. 😊
BTW, I currently have 7 routers, down from 11 after giving some away to son-in-laws and a grandson. One router table with 2 mounted routers and space for horizontal router, and a portable router table. Love my routers!
 

Wmcullen

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Separately I’ve personally found that remaining 3% scared of my power tools keeps me safe. I don’t think I’m scared of getting hurt so much as scared of navigating a complex lie to my wife to cover-up the true nature of the imagined injury. Likely involving icicles falling from the roof. (That’s a Christmas Story reference I would probably try to use in the summer. I’m a horrible liar.)
 

jttheclockman

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I wasn't aware of anyone being afraid of a router. But then I haven't read any router threads here. 😊
BTW, I currently have 7 routers, down from 11 after giving some away to son-in-laws and a grandson. One router table with 2 mounted routers and space for horizontal router, and a portable router table. Love my routers!
I believe my last count is 12 routers but stopped counting. Sorry I can not quantify the amount of router users. Also own a full sized shaper and a portable Delta shaper. Remember Hank this is a pen turning site and not a woodworking site. People here run from tablesaws. Just go back and read past threads. I have been here a long time as well as you.
 
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