Pen In The Hat, and other pen and wood swaps

[RussFairfield]

Lou in DC posted a question about donations. That has prompted me to post this message about pen and wood swaps.

These swaps of pens and wood have become a popular part of this IAP Site. The 2006 Pen In The Hat had a large participation, and there are several others being discussed for the future. However, they are not without their problems. One of these problems is the growing number of "no shows" that are evidenced by the messages in the PITH-2006 thread.

I have no idea what others may have experienced with these swaps, but mine hasn't been good. Prior to the PITH-2006 for which I am waiting, I have participated in 3 pen and 2 wood swaps, and I mailed out my 3 pens and 2 packages of wood. In exchange I received 1 pen (Thank you, Old Griz), no wood, and no acknowledgement that anything I had sent had been received.

I think that is a sorry response. And, that is the reason that you won't be finding my name among the participants in future swaps.

From my perspective, these exchanges have been a failure. Have others had a similar experience?

Do we need to start making rules?? Making folks use real names and addresses might solve one problem and create another. Would kicking them out of the IAP prove anything to someone who has only posted 2 messages in the past 2 years? Would haveing a 2-star membership requirement make the swap any better?

Maybe the solution is just sitting back and not making commitments that we are unable to keep, and keeping those we make.

I will get off the soapbox now.

 

[Dario]

Russ,

I have been very lucky to always swap with excellent people. Be it with the pen (only once) or with wood/blanks. A few times I actually feel bad that I ended up getting a lot more than hat I bargained for.

While your experience is sad...I hope your position about not joining anymore will change. Though it can never be justified, I bet those who got your name really got intimidated (I know I would).

There's a few icons here amongst us...you are one of them.

 

[gerryr]

My prespective is definitely skewed, [] since the person who was to make a pen for me was Mudder and it's a beauty. I got a thank you from the person I sent a pen to, but haven't seen anything of him around here for a very long time.
This was my first pen swap since I wasn't around for the previous one. I fully understand why you would view it as a failure. There isn't really any excuse for someone to voluntarily sign up for a swap and then just blow it off, even if they're supposed to send a pen to somebody like you, Russ. I would feel intimidated if I got your name, but it would just make me work that much harder at doing the best job I could. Personally, I look forward to the next one, but I suppose my attitude could change depending on what happens next time.

 

[dubdrvrkev]

Maybe if we viewed the exchanges as a donation it wouldn't sting so much, and if you got something in return it would be an unexpected surprise. Yes that is half sarcasm, but half truth too.
I didn't get in on the PITH '06 because I had other things going and didn't want to rush a pen or be late on it.
Sorry for your bad experiences with these things, maybe someday one will work out and bring a better light on them.

 

[jeff]

I'm really sorry to hear this has happened. Anyone who has not received a pen in a swap may send me the no-show member's name and I'll look into it.

Russ points out an actual use for the stars! It's up to the person running the swap, but how about requiring that a person with less than two stars send their pen first to their partner in the swap. Of the known no-shows, were they regular contributors?

 

[Fangar]

I know that I got a wonderful pen in the exchange. My recipient dropped off the face of the earth and in turn blew off his recipient. Knowing this, I contacted who was to be his recipient and gave him the pen that I had made for my original guy.

Kinda weird that one would step up and enter their name and then bail out without a word. In my case, I hope that all is well with him as he has not logged posted here since January.

Unfortunately, people procrastinate, give up when somtehing does not seem good enough, and fret about quality.

Unfortunately, it is to be expected with exchanges. Regardless of the reasoning, it is still bad tact to leave one hanging without word.

Sorry to hear that you have been left hanging...

Do you turn aluminum?

The reason I ask is this Russ... If so, I would like to send you a couple of drilled, tubed and faced blanks for you to work with yourself. My reasoning is that when you think of the latest pen exhange, I would like you to think about receiving something nice as a result of it. The blanks. If you are interested, drop me a PM. It would be my pleasure. Especially from all I have learned from your site exchange of information.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[gerryr]

Fangar,
That's a cool idea. If all of us who've learned from Russ's site and posts sent him a pen or some blanks, he'd need a dumpster for a mailbox.[][]

 

[RussFairfield]

Originally posted by jeff
<br /> Of the known no-shows, were they regular contributors?

I don't remember them as being regulars of the IAP at the time, but I didn't keep track.

 

[vick]

Russ sorry you have had such back luck. I was thinking along the same lines as you that if the pen in the hat was limited to established members or the pens to go to nonesstablished members were "held" until there pen was confirmed to have been delivered would probably increase the sucess rate but would be harder for he volunteer organizers to run. I personally had my beautiful canary wood pen hand deliverd to my house by the member that drew my name, and the person I sent to promptly confirmed that he recieved my pen.

 

[gerryr]

If Russ hasn't received his pen from this year, the person who was to send him his pen is still active here.

 

[Dario]

Originally posted by gerryr
<br />Fangar,
That's a cool idea. If all of us who've learned from Russ's site and posts sent him a pen or some blanks, he'd need a dumpster for a mailbox.[][]

Good idea Gerry and Fangar,

I actually sent him a care package last week for the very same reason []. A thank you for all the help he gave most of us.

 

[LanceD]

Just go back to the original thread. The pairings are listed for everyone to see.

 

[RussFairfield]

2006 isn't a problem. I sent a pen, received a "thank you" via a message posted here, and a note that my pen will be coming. The difference is that this years exchanges were with folks who have been long time menbers of the IAP. Previous exchanges were not. That was my reason for my suggesting a 2-Star qualifier for the exchange.

While the number of posted messages might prove intent, I am not in favor of any separation by skills. To do so would prevent the newcomer from getting a pen from one of our skilled pencrafters, and denying them the inspiration that they might get from such a pen. However, that doesn't relieve them from their responsibility to let the sender know that the pen was received.

Maybe just talking about the problem, if there is one, will solve it.

 

[dmadis]

One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients. We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well. A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time. The number of participants is limited, if anyone drops out a reserve member can be put in place. Rules we use and the exchanges of prints are at http://www.barenforum.org/ The coordinator is a volunteer; in a pen exchange it would be a delightful job to be able to examine all the pens before mailing them out.

 

[RussFairfield]

Originally posted by dmadis
<br />One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients. We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well. A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time. The number of participants is limited, if anyone drops out a reserve member can be put in place. Rules we use and the exchanges of prints are at http://www.barenforum.org/ The coordinator is a volunteer; in a pen exchange it would be a delightful job to be able to examine all the pens before mailing them out.

That would solve the problem with stragglers and no-shows. But, it would add to the burden of the coordinator.

I hope Jeff is reading all of this.

 

[its_virgil]

There was a deadline set and its just as easy to mail to the reciepent as it is to mail them to someone who must handle and remail every pen. Honoring a commitment and following through is all it takes to make these exchanges work. My pen is being delayed but the sender is keeping me informed of its progress. It is delayed because of someone else, not the maker. The person who recieved the pen I made was thoughtful enough to acknowledge it arrival and offer his thanks for the pen.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
[/quote]Originally posted by dmadis
<br />One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients. We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well. A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time. [/quote]

 

[rtjw]

Originally posted by dmadis
<br />One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients. We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well. A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time. The number of participants is limited, if anyone drops out a reserve member can be put in place. Rules we use and the exchanges of prints are at http://www.barenforum.org/ The coordinator is a volunteer; in a pen exchange it would be a delightful job to be able to examine all the pens before mailing them out.

We got if I remember correctly 160 something pens for the contest. It is really really really really really really hard to keep track of that many pens.

 

[smoky10]

In 2005 when the pen exchange came up I was excited about it and started my pen right after I found out who it was. Looking at his sign in name I knew he must like the outdoors so I thought deer antler and walnut might be nice. I sent his pen in a week or so and waited to receive mine and I'm still waiting. When PITH 2006 came around I was hesitant to join in but I did. I mailed my pen out right away, but I didn't have to wait long for mine. I started to pass this one up because I was disappointed last year.
I don't think I would be to intimidated to send a pen to anyone. If I did my best, regardless of my skill level, it would be appreciated by most of the better pen turners on this forum.

 

[airrat]

I hope that people would have enough morals to deliver if they commit to something. However, it is just not so.

The thing I have against sending the pens to one person would be the cost and the burden they would have. I dont want anyone to get left out. Maybe the two star posting would be good. Nothing against newer members I actually have enjoyed meeting my pen receiver. We have been keeping in contact with emails and when I finally get this box to the post office we have exchanged some blanks. (Splinter it is coming I promise)

I look forward to the next pen exchange and will participate in it.

 

[Mudder]

I for one have been following this thread very closely and I must say that I am sorry to all who have not received a pen from the Pen In The Hat 2006. Unfortunately there is no real way to enforce these types of exchanges and we must rely on the integrity of everyone involved that they will live up to their commitment.

My original plan was to have every participant send me their real name, mailing address and a valid telephone number before I would put their name on the list but reading how the privacy policy of the site is currently written I don’t think that would have been allowed? Perhaps it should be viewed as an event totally outside of the site and run that way? Perhaps I should have made up some sort of entry form for everyone to fill out and mail to me before the person was entered?

Perhaps we should have had everyone send in a deposit so if they did not live up to their agreement the money would have been forwarded to the person who did not receive a pen?

Perhaps I should have had all of the pens mailed to me with money for forwarding postage to the recipient? Who would have been responsible if the person did not include the postage to forward the pen? And what about all of the time involved to the organizer if it were done that way? As it was, this “little event†took roughly 18 hours to do. It was not too bad because it was 10-15 minutes a night except for the matching of participants and making sure it was done correctly and nobody was double posted.

I agree with Russ. I was fortunate that I received a very special pen from Laserturner. This pen sits on a special shelf along with my birthday present from DCBluesman and the Sierra pencil that was submitted for entrance into the Penmakers guild. I was also fortunate that the person for whom my pen was made liked it and posted so. I do not think it should be all that hard for everyone to live up to the commitment that they made or at least to let the organizer know that they would have a problem living up to the commitment. I did receive 6 emails from members that would have been willing to make and send an extra pen to help out another member who might have run into a problem but to date I have not heard from ONE person letting me know that they had an unforeseen problem and would not be able to participate.


I also agree that there should be some kind of guideline set up so that this could be a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

Again, to all who did not receive a pen, please accept my sincere apology. I feel that I have in some way let you down. I’m Sorry.


Scott

 

[airrat]

Mudder your not responsible for the irresponsible.

 

[clewless]

Scott,

You certainly are to be praised for undertaking the job. I was happy to give and receive a pen, but wouldn't blame you for another's lack of committment.

I'll happily send a pen to someone who was shortchanged and NOT expect one in return. The pleasure of giving is enough to satisfy, getting one in return is an added pleasure.

Thanks again.

 

[DocStram]

Please carefully consider the idea of two star ratings. I may only be a one star guy but I am honest, diligent, trustworthy and an American to boot.
On the other hand, I'm hesitant to participate only becuase I want to avoid disappointing the recipient. I've been turning pens for only about 6 months. I just can't imagine sending one of my pens to Russ or Dario or Patricia or Ron or Richard or Fangar or Gerry or any of the others gods of penturning ... maybe in a couple of years ... or 4 ... or 5. (sorry if your name wasn't included as of the gods. Believe me, I admire and respect all of you and your contribution to the PenMaking World.)

 

[Hastur]

Originally posted by its_virgil
<br />There was a deadline set and its just as easy to mail to the reciepent as it is to mail them to someone who must handle and remail every pen. Honoring a commitment and following through is all it takes to make these exchanges work. My pen is being delayed but the sender is keeping me informed of its progress. It is delayed because of someone else, not the maker. The person who recieved the pen I made was thoughtful enough to acknowledge it arrival and offer his thanks for the pen.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Not to hijack the post but I use your pen everyday at school and my students' (852 of them) love it when I show it to them and then tell them that it is made out of snakeskin.


Scott this was the first exchange I have been in and I thought it was great. Don't "Monday morning" yourself about what you could have, should have, or would have done. I am sorry some people are having trouble getting their pens, maybe we should get the names of all who have not received their pen and match those names up again to the new list. Just a thought.

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by DocStram
<br />Please carefully consider the idea of two star ratings. I may only be a one star guy but I am honest, diligent, trustworthy and an American to boot.
On the other hand, I'm hesitant to participate only becuase I want to avoid disappointing the recipient. I've been turning pens for only about 6 months. I just can't imagine sending one of my pens to Russ or Dario or Patricia or Ron or Richard or Fangar or Gerry or any of the others gods of penturning ... maybe in a couple of years ... or 4 ... or 5. (sorry if your name wasn't included as of the gods. Believe me, I admire and respect all of you and your contribution to the PenMaking World.)

Two of the most stunning pens that i've seen come from this swap came from relative newcomers to penturning. The number of stars under your name has NOTHING to do with your integrity.

 

[Johnathan]

Well, I too am sorry for those that have had some bad experiences because of a few "problem" members. As I am organizing the blank swap right now, I truly hope that we will have no problems with it. []

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Let's put this thing into perspective. How many participants have not followed through? I bet it's only a small number. Shame on you!!! There's always a rotten apple in the barrel right? Why should it be different here? The inconsideration of a few should not be a deterrent for future pen-in-the hat exchanges. I did not participate in the last one BUT will in the next, despite the possibilty of having to deal with a 'no show'. I may be disappointed in not getting one BUT I still have the pleasure of knowing that someone else appreciates the one that I've submitted. No sour grapes here JMHO.

-Peter-[]

 

[AdamB]

RussFairfield:
I don't have many stars but here's a swap just for you.

Send me a email with your address.
I will send you some stuff.

Sorry things didn't work this time around for you

Adam

 

[L32]

I for one gave and recieved a pen. I must say I got better than I gave but I enjoyed It and the pen(s)I got inspired me to do better. I dont think the process should be complicated to much or people wont participate and participation is the ultimate goal of a thing like this. If you signed up and didnt fulfill you obligation shame on you. You missed out on something special perhaps the names of the procrastinators should be collected and they should be barred from the next exchange or any future sign up's unless they have a crediable excuse. I would be happy to keep track of the none participants names and could give them to any future exchange or swap coordinator's. just a suggestion[B)]

 

[Dario]

Originally posted by airrat
<br />Mudder your not responsible for the irresponsible.

I agree 100%.

This is a toughie...a lot of new comers are as responsible as can be. But being an established member has it own merits too.

As I said, my experience have all been pleasureable and I might get a bit disappointed too if I didn't receive anything (not because of not receiving a pen but because of the person letting me down). BUT I will most likely keep joining the next swaps...if I can find time.

 

[gerryr]

Unfortunately, I think some people get caught up in the excitement of the moment when something like this is announced and they see others signing up. Then they lose interest for one reason or another and don't have the courtesy to withdraw. More than once I almost signed up for the Charity Pen deal, but my lack of experience and generally not very well done pens kept me from doing it. Then I started to see pictures of the pens people were donating and I was really glad I didn't do it. There may have been some of that going on with this also. I have no idea if Johnny actually received pens from everyone who said they would donate one, but my guess is that some people probably said they would and then didn't follow through.

 

[Ron Mc]

I'm not sure that I like the 2 star idea. This will eliminate a lot a great turners from the swaps which in turn will rob them from the joy of giving. I participated in my first pen swap this year and found that the joy of sending one of my pens to a fellow turner was fantastic. It's nice when another turner actually gets to see your work first hand. The pen that I received was wonderful and it sits in my private collection with some of mine and some from other turners.

I'll tell you what. If for unforeseen reason you signed up for the swap and couldn't come up with a pen during the time frame given go ahead and e-mail the member that you were supposed to mail one to and let them know that you just aren't ignoring them.
This would be a great gesture.

 

[pete00]

Fortunately most that participated had a good time. I cant think of anything different to do next time. Human nature being what it is, there will always be some that dont deliver.

Come to think of it, maybe next time , have a cut off date for the acknowledgement of all recipients. If someone does not here from there partner by such and such date reassign some names. And / or the “group†has a couple spares pens ready for the folks that dont receive one(especially for the new folks). I would give an extra one out if i had any ready.

pete

 

[woodmanplus]

I am sorry to hear that some people have had a problem whith the exchange. I am farly new to pen turning , but must have been lucky as I sold a good number of sets for Christmas and als have a number on consignment at present. I was lucky to recieve my pen and am proud of it. It is made from two of my favorite woods Walnut and Maple, from the makers own property. I make use some of my own wood. I made a display case for my pen and people that see it love it. I was offered a good price for it but I made no qualms,that it was never to be sold.
I do not have an answer to the problem, but am sympothetic to the problem.
I am a new member and have enjoyed the forum and the Charity Pen and the exchange. I also, al;most did not join iether,because I felt that I was not good enough. I have enjoyed both more than I can put into words.
It is a shame that these situations happen, but we just do have some bumpy roads to travel as humans.
I just hope that this does not deture any future exchanges.

 

[DocStram]

As the "Designer Guys" on HGTV (one of my wife's favorite shows ... while I head to the lathe) would say ... this may sound "harsh" but maybe we could have a forum called "DEADBEATS" and list the names of people who received a pen but never sent one. Ok, "DEADBEATS" does sound pretty rough ... maybe call the forum .... "PenHeads" or something. It might be incentive enough to get people to fulfill their commitment.

 

[woodscavenger]

Shame on me. I contributed to this mess. I was paired with Russ. He sent me the DI slimline with and wood tip with the metal nib buried in it. I love it. I posted a thank you on the board and in an email. I also said a pen would be coming late. We just had a newborn....she's finally sleeping right now but I have not been out to my pen shop in many weeks. I have a ton of good pens I could easily send but I have been working on a completely new design that has given me more trouble than anticipated which really make me feel terrible after seeing this mess.

Apologies to all.

Russ, I promise you will get your pen.

 

[wayneis]

I've been involved in three exchanges and have had good luck so far and it is disturbing that some have been burned. I think this may be the first exchange that this has happened. We have had, it seems to me anyways a rash of new members in the last six months or so.

I don't think that the stars should have anything to do with deciding wheather a person should be included, what I would propose is that everyone should be a member of the IAP for maybe three to six months or so. Anyone could join up and just recieve a pen and drop out without sending one. Like I said, I think that somehow who ever runs an exchange should check and make sure that everyone has at least been a member for a certain period of time.

Wayne

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by wayneis
<br /> Like I said, I think that somehow who ever runs an exchange should check and make sure that everyone has at least been a member for a certain period of time.

Does this mean that you are volunteering to run the next one?

It boils down to one fact; whether you've been a member for 6 months or 2 years if a person does not have the integrity to live up to their commitment no amount of checking or rules are going to fix it.

Originally posted by wayneis
<br />
I think this may be the first exchange that this has happened. We have had, it seems to me anyways a rash of new members in the last six months or so.

Did you read the post by Russ?

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />
2006 isn't a problem. I sent a pen, received a "thank you" via a message posted here, and a note that my pen will be coming. The difference is that this years exchanges were with folks who have been long time menbers of the IAP.

 

[BigL]

I've had mixed feelings about this. I received an absolutely wonderful pen from Dario. My pen that I sent (I sent it express mail when it was completed) was not received by my recipient until March 14th. I was late due to work related problems (I own a funeral home and we had 102 deaths since January 1 and the day I sent the pen - a HUGH number for a small 8 person funeral home.) My recipient sent me an email at the end of February saying he felt he had been slimed - also implying that I did not have much integrity. I am new to turning - in fact, this is only the 3rd pen I've turned and the first I completed without help â€" and I had put alot into this. I drove the 50+ miles to Craft Supplies to find the right kit and pick out the what I thought was a great piece of wood (I chose a Statesman and cocobolo) and purchased the kit, bushings, both drill bits, etc. I responded to every email my recipient sent me and also sent him others. To date, he has not acknowledged that he received it. I have to say that this diminished the joy I felt in creating this for my IAP friend. I would just close by telling you all how much I appreciate your willingness to share - I would sign up again for this again. I hope we can do this again in the future. Lane

 

[Dario]

Lane,

I am so sorry that you went through that.

We should expect nothing from these swaps other than receiving a pen. We all know that these pens are made by different people...of different skill level and talent. I believe that before joining the PITH, we should first think hard about what we expect from it. Personally the craftsmanship of the pen is immaterial, it is the camaraderie that it promotes that matters.

What I received is a very special "GIFT" from cigarman. I am very happy with it and I am not going to ever part with it. I hope everyone feels that way on whatever "GIFT" they received.