Ordered a new dust collector need pipe advice

[brownsfn2]

Do to some great success over the Christmas selling period I was able to order a new dust collector to replace my old noisy one.

I ordered the DC2000BCF (The 2HP with Canister). I looked for quite some time and after reading the Wood Magazine (Older article) review I thought it was the best purchase for my money and if the DB ratings for sound level are true it should be quieter than the one I had. The guy I ordered from was really nice also. Best person I ever talked to at PSI.

I still plan on putting it in an insulated closet that I will build in my basement. I am hoping to keep it as quiet as possible so I will actually use it every night.

I have heard many opinions on the size of the main branch of my pipe runs. One says that a 6" pipe will reduce the velocity (FPM) of the air. Another says that a 4" main branch will keep the velocity high but will reduce the CFM or airflow. I have also heard it said that keeping the same size pipe throughout all your runs is best meaning that the size of the port on the machine is going to dictate my main line size (4" in most cases).

I plan to only run one main line in an 18' main line down one wall of my shop. From there I will install wyes and blast gates and run drops to each machine. I will need about 5-6 drops (all with blast gates).

I guess I am just not sure about the main line. Does a 6" main line make a huge difference either good or bad in my case? My runs are not that long and it is a 2HP 1500 CFM collector so I am thinking that I am over engineering and I have lots of room for error.

As an aside... I have been to the Bill Pentz website and In a perfect world where space, cost, and noise did not matter I might have a perfect DC system. To read that website is just depressing.

Any opinions? Has anyone changed out their 4" main for a 6" and experienced big improvement? Anything I am missing here?

Thanks!

 

[Wdcrvr]

Has anyone changed out their 4" main for a 6" and experienced big improvement?

Yes ... I have a Jet 1.5 Hp canister dust collector in my ~300 sq ft shop. For six years, I dragged a 4" flex hose across my shop floor from one machine to another. Then last spring, I installed a central piping system and opted to go 6" ... 6" S&D pvc main lines + 6" drop lines right up to my woodworking machines + 6" blast gates at each machine + expanded flow area of dust outlets of my machines. Very pleased with chip and sawdust collection since that upgrade + elimination of 4" flex hose dragged across my shop floor. Here's a link to a post describing my upgrade ... WoodNet Forums: Dust Collection Upgrade ... Finished

Tom

 

[brownsfn2]

Wow. Your shop is a lot like mine. I am at 270 sq ft. Since you have a 1.5 with 6" runs everywhere I should be good with the new 2HP 1500CFM model that I ordered from PSI.

No problem with going straight up to the ceiling and back down again? I was considering running my main line hanging from the wall about 1/2 the way up. Now looking at yours I am considering hanging from the ceiling down the middle of the shop and run 6" drops as close as I can get to the machines and then reduce to 4" (Since all of my ports are 2-4")

Thanks for the link.

 

[Kretzky]

There are a number of air flow calcs on line just google "air flow in pipes" here's one, just stick in your figures (at least it'll give you an idea)
Calculator: Pipe Sizing by Velocity for Air | TLV
increasing from 4" to 6" will most definitely reduce air velocity, remember the dc fan/ motor (& therefore the manufacturer's quoted throughput) is sized for a specific size pipe. I'd stick with that recommendation. The only real reason for going to bigger pipe is if you plan to have "large" chunks that may get stuck or machines that produce masses of chips (eg big planers etc). For most small home shops 4" should suffice.
Moving from flexible hose (as Tom mentioned) to any solid/ smooth bore pipe will always give better air flow, flexible pipe causes so much turbulence & losses. I'd guess you probably reduce your velocity to probably 1/2 what a similar size smooth bore pipe will give you. Whatever you do try to keep bends smooth & directional to reduce losses.
Hope that helps.

 

[Wingdoctor]

I went from a roll around 1 1/2 hp to a 2 1/2 HP Oneida Cyclone. Oneida recomends that you come off the cyclone with the same size pipe as the outlet for up to 6'. Then down to the next smaller size for 10-12 feet, but running 5" pipe all the way to each machine's gate. Then adapt to whatever size the machine will handle. They also suggested running 6" all the way to the table saw. I followed these suggestions in my shop with 13 drops. My router table is the farthest from the cyclone at about 40 feet and the suction is great. I started with the 7" pipe at the cyclone and then to 6", and finally to 5" for the drops to the machines. The Table Saw has 6" all the way.

There is a company called BlastGates that has metal blast gates that are very reasonable and efficient. No more plastic gates for me. The metal gates do not clog and they last for ever without breaking. They also sell spiral ducting if you cannot find it locally. Seal every joint with caulk and the system will be very efficient.

It is really nice to have a mostly dust free shop.

 

[ToddMR]

Really makes me want to start making something similar in my garage shop. I just haven't got around to thinking about all of that yet.

 

[Wdcrvr]

Wow. Your shop is a lot like mine. I am at 270 sq ft. Since you have a 1.5 with 6" runs everywhere I should be good with the new 2HP 1500CFM model that I ordered from PSI.

No problem with going straight up to the ceiling and back down again? I was considering running my main line hanging from the wall about 1/2 the way up. Now looking at yours I am considering hanging from the ceiling down the middle of the shop and run 6" drops as close as I can get to the machines and then reduce to 4" (Since all of my ports are 2-4")

Thanks for the link.

Ron,

Ref your question ... "No problem with going straight up to the ceiling and back down again?" Answer is no problem as long as your CFM is sufficient to suspend chips and Pentz site offers guidance on that. My own experience is that my modest 1.5 Hp single stage dust collector generates sufficient CFM across my longest 6" main line (37') that nothing fails to flow up/down my vertical drops. Your 2 Hp single stage should be even better.

I encourage you to spend the time and $ initially and go for 6" main lines and 6" drop lines and 6" blast gates and increase the inlet flow area of all machines above the 2" to 4" openings that are provided by their maker. Pentz's site really pushes for this to ensure that the 'fines' of woodworking equipment are swept into the ducting at each machine. You can see what I did to open up my machine inlets in the first link I offered you. You could plumb up your overall ducting and blast gates initially and get up and running with your system. Then modify your woodworking equipment one at a time with larger dust openings and judge for yourself if you've improved 'fines' collection. Your small shop and 2 Hp dust collector will serve you well with that kind of overall set up. Here's some more reading of an active post now going on at Lumberjocks ... the originator is asking and analyzing his own needs for a cyclone and ducting, but most of the dialogue is equally germane to single stage dust collection too. If You Have a Cyclone Dust Collector... - by DavidNJ @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Tom

 

[brownsfn2]

Do you have a problem with your blast gates being close to the machines and not closer to the main line? I always though that running a main line with blast gates closer to the main line so that I can close off the branch would be better than putting it at the machine. It would keep the path shorter per machine if I only collect at one machine at a time. What do you think? Any difference?

 

[Wdcrvr]

Do you have a problem with your blast gates being close to the machines and not closer to the main line? I always though that running a main line with blast gates closer to the main line so that I can close off the branch would be better than putting it at the machine. It would keep the path shorter per machine if I only collect at one machine at a time. What do you think? Any difference?

Assuming that your blast gates do a good job of stopping drop line airflow when closed, it really doesn't matter where you put them in your drop line. Most folks put them at a convenient drop line location to open/close and to quickly look across their shop to see what gate(s) are open and what gate(s) are closed. You can see in my online WoodNet photo post that my gates are about mid-way up the shop walls ... easy to access and easy to see across the shop to ascertain what is open and what is closed. I only use one machine at a time so all gates are closed except the one to the machine I'm using.

Tom