Not not's a no-no, dumb-dumb.

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sbwertz

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Don't know what made me think of it, but long ago (In a galaxy far far away....?) I taught pascal programming. On my wall I had that saying...because it is very easy to get double negatives in a programming language, and if you do, everything goes south. For some reason, it just popped into my mind this evening. Thought I'd share it just for fun.
 
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sbwertz

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I taught Turbo Pascal. Loved that language! Also Knuth's TeX. Knuth had a warped sense of humor. One of his error messages was "This can't happen!"
 

randyrls

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Sharon; We had a manager who always wrote in double negatives. ex "If status is not 'normal' then don't do this_process". We spent a lot of time going thru his stuff: "If status is not 'normal' then don't do this_process"
 

egnald

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It was Mostek and Zilog assembly mnemonic language for me, but then on to Fortran, Pascal, PL1, C, Basic, etc. Of all of them I like the newer object oriented languages the best (like C++ and Visual Basic).

Hmmm, now I want to write a program for something. That will pass though. I really don't not like your thread! - Dave
 

sbwertz

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It was Mostek and Zilog assembly mnemonic language for me, but then on to Fortran, Pascal, PL1, C, Basic, etc. Of all of them I like the newer object oriented languages the best (like C++ and Visual Basic).

Hmmm, now I want to write a program for something. That will pass though. I really don't not like your thread! - Dave
I'd trade all the ++s in the world for one type "string" though. Got so tired of having to build arrays in C++ to do what I could do with a simple type "string" in Pascal. To give you some idea of how naive I was when I started in computers, my husband, who was a systems analyst for GE/Honeywell suggested I take an intro to computers class at the local Jr. College. So I signed up for Basic Computer Programming because I thought it was a class on the basics of computer programming. Came home mad as a wet hen, asking my husband why he had never explained to me that computer languages were actual LANGUAGES with a vocabulary, syntax and grammar. I'm a language major....Latin, Spanish, French and German. Basic was just another language, and I never looked back. I've had my own computer consulting business for over 30 years now.
 
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Mortalis

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Sharon; We had a manager who always wrote in double negatives. ex "If status is not 'normal' then don't do this_process". We spent a lot of time going thru his stuff: "If status is not 'normal' then don't do this_process"
That actually is not a double negative in the way you think it is. As long as the two negatives are each related two separate entities then it is not a true double negative. That is actually how a null hypothesis is stated.
The use of vernacular like, we aint not supposed to do something is a double negative.
 
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sbwertz

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That actually is not a double negative in the way you think it is. As long as the two negatives are each related two separate entities then it is not a true double negative. That is actually how a null hypothesis is stated.
The use of vernacular like, we aint not supposed to do something is a double negative.
It's a lot easier to do in a computer program. One of my programmers, who was an experienced coder, once came to me because his code wasn't working. It had a double negative, but there was absolutely no way I was able to convince him that it had a double negative...he just couldn't see it. Even after I fixed it, and it ran properly, he couldn't understand why it didn't work the way he wrote it. Best I recall, it was an "if then else" type of error.
 

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Related but similar, my favorite error message we see on the lasers at work form time to time simply says" Something is wrong". Nothing further to point you in any direction to a possible solution. It's usually followed by a "No Sh!t" comment from any particular laser operator.
 
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Sharon's post is primary reason I don't do programming... I've taken the customs broker exam twice about half the questions are written with double negatives so if you don't spend 15 minutes on the question to see where it's going.... it's a 4 hour exam with a couple hundred questions.... 85% of people that take the test fail... closest I came to passing was 5 points off....Know of one fellow with 20 years in customs brokerage that has taken the test 5 or 6 times and can't pass... Primary reason I stuck to export instead of import.

I've worked on computers as an operator since the mid to early 70s, but never learned to program in any language.
 

sorcerertd

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Related but similar, my favorite error message we see on the lasers at work form time to time simply says" Something is wrong". Nothing further to point you in any direction to a possible solution. It's usually followed by a "No Sh!t" comment from any particular laser operator.
LOL, yes, I do love those ambiguous errors. They are common where I work. I think my favorite one is, when on diagnostic tool is having a problem, it will fail to load with a plain white page saying "Unauthroized". Whoever wrote it is obviously spelling challenged and it just makes me laugh.
 

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I'm not a computer programmer but I remember talking the first computer math class that was offered at my high school in IIRC was 1968. Learned Basic using punch tape that was then sent by a phone line to one of the local refineries for their computer to run for us. Never did any programming after that.
I think that before I retired in 2011, one of the best error messages I heard was the ID 10 T error.
 

KenB259

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I'm not a computer programmer but I remember talking the first computer math class that was offered at my high school in IIRC was 1968. Learned Basic using punch tape that was then sent by a phone line to one of the local refineries for their computer to run for us. Never did any programming after that.
I think that before I retired in 2011, one of the best error messages I heard was the ID 10 T error.
The ID 10 T error is closely related to a PEBCAK error :D
 

sbwertz

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LOL, yes, I do love those ambiguous errors. They are common where I work. I think my favorite one is, when on diagnostic tool is having a problem, it will fail to load with a plain white page saying "Unauthroized". Whoever wrote it is obviously spelling challenged and it just makes me laugh.
I once had a computer shout at me. I was working on a GE time-share mainframe over the telephone modem, and we had some heavy rain. All the cables were underground, and I was having trouble getting a clear signal to the GE mainframe. I put in a common line of code and got back "unknown command." Knowing it was just because of the wet lines, I put it in again. Got the same message again. Put it in a third time and got "UNKNOWN COMMAND, UNKNOWN COMMAND, UNKNOWN COMMAND"
 

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I took only one computer class in college. My Dean offered to drop 8 hours of chemistry if I would take an advanced computer programming class. So I definitely took the advanced programming class over the chemistry. Was I lost during that class. Irony of the situation was a few years later I ended up running our school network for seven years.
 

Mortalis

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It's a lot easier to do in a computer program. One of my programmers, who was an experienced coder, once came to me because his code wasn't working. It had a double negative, but there was absolutely no way I was able to convince him that it had a double negative...he just couldn't see it. Even after I fixed it, and it ran properly, he couldn't understand why it didn't work the way he wrote it. Best I recall, it was an "if then else" type of error.
Yes, you are very correct. I used to have to proof all the Excel formulas at work because their if then else statements and nested if's whenever they would not work.
 

Edgar

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This brings back memories -- I designed, managed, & programmed Data Acquisition Systems using Pascal (on Texas Instruments 920 minicomputers) for about 14 years (1980-1994). I have also used Fortran, Forth, BASIC, various versions of C, and umpteen Assembly Language variants in my career - all self taught. For those who remember the TI-99/4A, I designed & wrote code for several cartridges including a spreadsheet utility written in Forth. Today I only do Objective C for iOS Apps and 8051-C for the embedded Microcontroller products that I design for our company. It's been an enjoyable 56+ year career that has given me the opportunity to travel to almost every state in the USA and to a dozen countries, but I have no desire to learn another language or development system at this stage of my life.
 

goldendj

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It was Mostek and Zilog assembly mnemonic language for me, but then on to Fortran, Pascal, PL1, C, Basic, etc. Of all of them I like the newer object oriented languages the best (like C++ and Visual Basic).

Hmmm, now I want to write a program for something. That will pass though. I really don't not like your thread! - Dave
Mmm ... Zilog Z80. Those were the days when coding was coding ... And from there not too big a step to Intel 8086 ...
 

sbwertz

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Mmm ... Zilog Z80. Those were the days when coding was coding ... And from there not too big a step to Intel 8086 ...
My first home computer was a KayPro Z80 system. CP/M. No hard drive, two 5.25" Floppy disk drives. It was a "portable." It weighed 35 lbs, but it had a handle on the top and the cover became the keyboard, so it was a "portable" computer LOL.
kaypro.jpg
 

egnald

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My first home computer was a KayPro Z80 system. CP/M. No hard drive, two 5.25" Floppy disk drives. It was a "portable." It weighed 35 lbs, but it had a handle on the top and the cover became the keyboard, so it was a "portable" computer LOL. View attachment 348813
Hi Sharon, I had a Kaypro 2 too. And then a Kaypro 10 with the 10MB hard drive. I thought I was on top of the world in 1983. It was pretty amazing what one could do with a little 4 MHz computer and 64 K of Ram. - I kind of wish I still had it. - Dave
 

sbwertz

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Hi Sharon, I had a Kaypro 2 too. And then a Kaypro 10 with the 10MB hard drive. I thought I was on top of the world in 1983. It was pretty amazing what one could do with a little 4 MHz computer and 64 K of Ram. - I kind of wish I still had it. - Dave
Yep, we had a Kaypro 10, too. Actually, I had two custom Kaypros, with four 3.5" floppies that I built myself! Two floppies mounted in each of the bays for the 5.25" discs. I took them to the CP/M symposium in Bend, Oregon one year. We had also bumped the speed up. Kaypros were much faster than the new IBMs LOL. (I can't remember what that symposium was called...the "something" Unofficial Gathering.)
 
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sbwertz

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We go WAY back in computer programming....Bob Bemer, who invented the backslash key on a computer keyboard, lived right up the street from us. My husband was on the team that created GE's first version of COBOL, and he wrote the very first disk sort algorithm.
 

David350

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I did Fortran programing on punch cards in college. What I hated the worst was that the card reader was probably not the best and you held your breath as it read in all your cards that it would do so without chewing one up. If it became jammed up with a card, you had to figure out what card(s) were destroyed, go back and make a new one(s), and then re-run your stack of cards. I remember one program taking 5-6 tries to get through all the cards in one run. Fun times... :)

My first computer was the original Compaq Portable, 2 floppies, no hard drive. It was a luggable PC, paid around $2,500 for it in 1984 I think. That's about $7,100 in todays dollars according to Mr. Google...
 

sbwertz

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I did Fortran programing on punch cards in college. What I hated the worst was that the card reader was probably not the best and you held your breath as it read in all your cards that it would do so without chewing one up. If it became jammed up with a card, you had to figure out what card(s) were destroyed, go back and make a new one(s), and then re-run your stack of cards. I remember one program taking 5-6 tries to get through all the cards in one run. Fun times... :)

My first computer was the original Compaq Portable, 2 floppies, no hard drive. It was a luggable PC, paid around $2,500 for it in 1984 I think. That's about $7,100 in todays dollars according to Mr. Google...
When I worked for GE back in the dark ages, my job was accumulation clerk. I would go around to all the assembly lines and get the list of what computers were going to be assembled that week, and put together the decks of cards for the parts department. It took me all week to get the deck of cards put together. I had all the cards in a box and was going down a flight of stairs when a guy coming up the stairs caught the end of the box with his briefcase and dumped the whole box of cards down the stairwell. It took me all day and half the night to get them back in order!
 
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sbwertz

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My first computer was the original Compaq Portable, 2 floppies, no hard drive. It was a luggable PC, paid around $2,500 for it in 1984 I think. That's about $7,100 in todays dollars according to Mr. Google...
I remember that computer. Funny story about it. Normal setup for a pc was to lay it flat on the desk and put the monitor on top of it. But if the person wore bifocals, I used to stand the computer up on it's left side (so the power switch was on top) beside the monitor. When one of my clients with a compaq had the same problem, I knew the solution! It even had little feet on the side so you could stand it up or lay it down. I stood it up, and put the boot floppy in, and it wouldn't boot. Laid it down and put the boot disk in and it booted just fine. Called a Compac techie to come and he put the disk in with it standing up and it wouldn't boot. Laid it down and put the disk in and it would boot. Neither of us could figure out what the problem was, until I realized that the feet on the Compaq were on the right side, not the left side, and we were putting the floppy in upside down when it was standing up because we were conditioned to put it in label to the left! I looked at him and said "Are you going to tell her?" "Nope, I'm just going to tell her it is fixed and it is free."
 

sbwertz

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I started with assembler, then Fortran (Call tran) and then Cobol. I traveled hundreds of miles to listen to Admiral Grace Hopper speak. I used her visuals of picoseconds, milliseconds and nanoseconds for my second career.
She is who found the original computer bug.

bug.JPG
 
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My first home computer was a KayPro Z80 system. CP/M. No hard drive, two 5.25" Floppy disk drives. It was a "portable." It weighed 35 lbs, but it had a handle on the top and the cover became the keyboard, so it was a "portable" computer LOL. View attachment 348813
Back in 1985 my boss at the first company I worked for in Houston and I left and started our own company.... the company we left had a computer system to keep track of purchase orders, to load into packing boxes and produce invoices and packing lists for customs... was a good system, though a little cumbersome.... we thought to make our own version at our new company and hired a programmer... he showed up one day with a computer much like what you show... it was an early Compac. looks just like the one above except it had an amber screen. He even offer a buy-in on the stock... should have bought a few shares. Compac was bought our or merged with Hewlett Packard some year back.
 

eharri446

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I taught my self COBOL while on active duty. When I knew that I was going to be getting out the Army, I took a certificate course at ECPI Norfolk VA. They taught us Basic, RPG, COBOL, and Assembler. When I let the military in 1984 I got a job with the VA in Philadelphia. I was coding COBOL, Assembler (for out IBM 1288 OCR machines), and 7080 Autocoder (which was the precursor to Assembler). After that I learned PASCAL, VB6, VB.NET, C#, C, Fortran, IBM DB2, SQL Server, and Oracle SQL. I am still working today as a contractor using C# and Oracle.
 
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egnald

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This is a very cool thread. A friend and I acquired an IBM 1620 for a short while in about 1983. We tried to keep it up and running but just when we would find and fix one problem another two would crop up. When it was running it was a really cool machine though. It had a CPU, B1 typewriter console, a card punch/reader (1622), hard drive unit (1405) and printer (1443). We ultimately lost access to the space it was set up in so we took it apart and then to some salvage dealers for scrap. I still have a few pieces of it though, the main IBM 1620 placard, a chad collector (trash can) from the 1622 card punch/reader, a handful of the plug-in pcb's (all discrete components), at least one individual conductor braided ribbon cables, and some 80 column punched-cards. - It sure was a fun time to be involved in computing.
 
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