New shop electrical ideas

[McKenzie Penworks]

Just some food for thought because you're gonna do what you want to do anyways... Don't go cheap with the electrical. Consider having new service run and a standalone meter. It gives you options later and if you should ever sell it, the new owner may appreciate it. I looked at places that I walked away from because the shop was tied into the house. Limited the equipment options way way too much. Also... If you're not an electrician by trade, seriously consider hiring one. Your time is better spent elsewhere and a couple grand to ensure things are done right is money well spent. As someone mentioned, should something go wrong and you did it yourself your insurance may take issue with the unpermitted work.

Admittedly I've spent some money with my electric guy over the past two years but he's been great and I've already completely filled the panel in the shop as I've grown. Any future shop will definitely be set up this way

 

[bsshog40]

So they are here to put up the shop. Not anything like I imagined. This is pretty much a metal carport with doors and siding. The square tubing will be spaced 5' apart. Looks like I'll have a lot of work to put into it to make it a functional shop.

 

[McKenzie Penworks]

One of those inexpensive metal building deals I'm guessing?

There is one advantage to the metal building... When I went to insure my shop (1300sqft) I was denied by a few places because it's stick built like a house. Seems they prefer commercial buildings not be built out of wood since it's flammable and what not.

 

[bsshog40]

One of those inexpensive metal building deals I'm guessing?

There is one advantage to the metal building... When I went to insure my shop (1300sqft) I was denied by a few places because it's stick built like a house. Seems they prefer commercial buildings not be built out of wood since it's flammable and what not.

Yep. I'm guessing I'll at least be able to run my electric in the little siding gaps and not have to drill thru the tubing. I'm eventually wanting to wall in the whole shop. Not sure if these things can handle plywood. May have to use thinner boards like hardy panel or something. This sure changes up my design that I was imagining. Lol

 

[bsshog40]

Ok, so the structure is not what I envisioned it would be. In order for me to eventally put walls over wiring and insulation I will have to run my electrical in the siding grooves around the building. I know the pictures are a little crude but here is my plan. I will have my panel between the walkin door and rollup door. I will have to drill holes in the tubing above it to be able to take romex around the sides of the shop. I will be putting a 20amp and 30amp on each side tubing.
1. I will run 3 circuits for lights. The long red lines on the ceiling and sides are where lights are going. 3 lights down the center - 1 circuit, and 3 lights angled at the sides on each side with separate circuits.
2. Run one row of 20amp outlets on each side of the shop. Each row is separate circuit.
3. Run one row of 30amp outlets on each side of shop. Each row is separate circuit.
I'll have to figure out 220v last.
Also, reason to run the 3 light rows on separate circuits is to only use the ones I need.

Anyone have any better ideas?

 

[jttheclockman]

They makes these things that are called switches Just can not see the need for 3 lighting circuits in a little area like that. 60 amp service in there will get eaten real quick when you split all those outlets. No room for add ons later. Just saying. Not what I would do.

 

[bsshog40]

L

They makes these things that are called switches Just can not see the need for 3 lighting circuits in a little area like that. 60 amp service in there will get eaten real quick when you split all those outlets. No room for add ons later. Just saying. Not what I would do.

Lol John, That's why I'm looking for ideas. I guess the newer led lights would probably run off one 20 amp circuit? That will be 9 lights I'm gonna install. The braces are 4' but thinking 36" lights are probably all I need for that many. I like the idea of the side lights being on the angled brackets so I don't shadow the center ceiling lights.

 

[rixstix]

Any outdoor lighting?

If my entire 3500 sqft house lighting load plus other essential loads will run on a single 20a breaker, listen to John. You could be over designing things.

 

[jttheclockman]

L

Lol John, That's why I'm looking for ideas. I guess the newer led lights would probably run off one 20 amp circuit? That will be 9 lights I'm gonna install. The braces are 4' but thinking 36" lights are probably all I need for that many. I like the idea of the side lights being on the angled brackets so I don't shadow the center ceiling lights.

My thought is you are more in need of a working layout plan than one of electrical at this point. To me I am thinking 6 8foot lights running east to west. One on each slope of roof. (3 rows ) More than enough light. With that metal supports you could use a number of fasteners including adding some unistrut to spread the lights more evenly. I would not put lights on those angle brackets and keep the lights as high as you can. Not sure what you are planning for ceiling and walls but you could just mount lights to whatever you put on ceiling. You need to have a plan for all your tools and tables because you may find you want more outlets on one wall than you need on another. You want to try to avoid extension chords to tools if possible. I suggest either an outside outlet or one close to the door so that if you work outside it is easy to grab power. As mentioned an outdoor light of some sort with motion detection so if you walk out or work late and it get dark you want lights. I would have a batterybackup emergency light mounted somewhere to get out safely in case of power failure. If you find you need more lights at certain work stations they make all sorts of add ons that can be hardwired or plugged in. But work on general lighting first. Without physically having working dimensions in front of you it is hard to visualize things. That is why alot of this will depend on your thoughts.

 

[bsshog40]

Any outdoor lighting?

If my entire 3500 sqft house lighting load plus other essential loads will run on a single 20a breaker, listen to John. You could be over designing things.

Don't need outdoor lighting. Well my last shop had separate circuits for 3 sets of lights. They were fluorescent lights. I just looked up amp usage for different size led lights. I never realized they used soo little amps. Ya, I think I'll tie them into one circuit just run the 3 runs off light switches.

 

[bsshog40]

My thought is you are more in need of a working layout plan than one of electrical at this point. To me I am thinking 6 8foot lights running east to west. With that metal supports you could use a number of fasteners including adding some unistrut to spread the lights more evenly. I would not put lights on those angle brackets and keep the lights as high as you can. Not sure what you are planning for ceiling and walls but you could just mount lights to whatever you put on ceiling. You need to have a plan for all your tools and tables because you may find you want more outlets on one wall than you need on another. You want to try to avoid extension chords to tools if possible. I suggest either an outside outlet or one close to the door so that if you work outside it is easy to grab power. As mentioned an outdoor light of some sort with motion detection so if you walk out or work late and it get dark you want lights. I would have a batterybackup emergency light mounted somewhere to get out safely in case of power failure. If you find you need more lights at certain work stations they make all sorts of add ons that can be hardwired or plugged in. But work on general lighting first.

So my shop is basically about 30' from the back door of the house. No need for outside light as the back porch has a bright light and an outside plug. I plan on leaving the ceiling as is except for some panel insulation against the roof siding. I plan on putting 20amp and 30amp outlets on every wall tubing. Will mount a single outlet box on each side of the tubing to accommodate both amps. That will cover all outlets that I will need or have a place to mount anyway. The only problem I have with mounting 8' lights is that the ceiling is only 13' high. If I bring lights down too low, I run the risk of hitting them when I am carrying or moving long boards.

 

[MRDucks2]

Last larger building I did new the math worked out to 16 lights on one 15 amp circuit using 16 gauge wire. I did not use that many but the amp draw on lighting load is tiny these days.

 

[jttheclockman]

So my shop is basically about 30' from the back door of the house. No need for outside light as the back porch has a bright light and an outside plug. I plan on leaving the ceiling as is except for some panel insulation against the roof siding. I plan on putting 20amp and 30amp outlets on every wall tubing. Will mount a single outlet box on each side of the tubing to accommodate both amps. That will cover all outlets that I will need or have a place to mount anyway. The only problem I have with mounting 8' lights is that the ceiling is only 13' high. If I bring lights down too low, I run the risk of hitting them when I am carrying or moving long boards.

Do not bring the lights down at all. Mount to the bracing that is there. Lights are up to ceiling. I drew on your drawing where I think they would work well, but you could always move them to inside those main supports. Even spacing if possible. See you say you fixed on certain amount of outlets on each wall. But if you have a workbench against the wall, maybe you want an outlet box on both ends of the table instead of the middle. I ran plugmold and makes for easier access to outlets. I did this on fixed tables and also my movable one

 

[bsshog40]

Do not bring the lights down at all. Mount to the bracing that is there. Lights are up to ceiling. I drew on your drawing where I think they would work well, but you could always move them to inside those main supports. Even spacing if possible. See you say you fixed on certain amount of outlets on each wall. But if you have a workbench against the wall, maybe you want an outlet box on both ends of the table instead of the middle. I ran plugmold and makes for easier access to outlets. I did this on fixed tables and also my movable one

I seen your locations John. That looks good also. The number of lights may come down to price also. I'm not sure where the placement of any of my tools are going to be at this point so just wanting to make sure lighting will not be an issue anywhere in the shop. I also have a couple 10 outlet strips that I keep for the shop. I also have a few 6 outlet strips for under shelving so I can plug overhead if need to.
I appreciate your input my friend!
I appreciate everyone's input. Between all the responses, I should have a good plan of attack. It will take me a bit to start as I have to just buy supplies here and there with the cost of everything. Lol Ideas will always be appreciated til then.
Thanks

 

[McKenzie Penworks]

I'd be planning on where to put my insulation and wiring the for the minisplit.... You're gonna want the AC in the summer

 

[Ray-CA]

You can always run the wiring on the surface in plastic conduit. That way it would be easy to add outlets etc. if your power needs change. Downside is you need to use wires, not Romex but can also oversize the conduit to allow for future upgrades.

Ray

 

[SteveG]

I have had a number of different shops over decades of woodworking, making my living in a one-man shop situation. At some locations I was renting a house and the shop was the garage. I could not modify the electrical. I ended up with a lighting solution that allowed for general area lighting augmented by excellent task lighting. This worked very well, and is what I use in my current shop, which is not for making a living, but rather for being a retired woodworker. On some of my major power tools, I have wired in the task lighting so that the light comes on when I power up the tool. Result: lighting is on while using the tool, with no separate switch to have to turn on, and more importantly, to have to remember to turn off when done.

 

[bsshog40]

I have another question I hope to get some help on. I got my 6ga wire to run to the shop. I was wanting to come out of my house box, put a 50amp rv plug on the house and then run straight to the shop. Does anyone know if they make a feed-thru 50amp outlet? We have a 32 circuit box but all the spaces are full except the 60amp breaker that I will be using to run to the shop. Now first off, all the breakers are on and I do know there is a 20amp breaker going (labeled) to a garbage disposal that will not be used. Not sure about anything else yet. So here are my other questions.
1. Should I search for another breaker not being used and use the 2 spaces for a dedicated 50amp plug?
2. Would I be able to pigtail inside a 50amp plug box and just go out to shop from it?
3. Or do they make a 50amp box for the plug with outlet connections to continue to shop?
A side note is the shop is too far away to be running a 100' rv cord or I would just put one in at the shop. The house is 50' closer to our rv.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bobby

 

[PreacherJon]

If you can, make sure you have an outlet every six to eight feet. You neve know how you'll refigure if you get new tools. Also, can you convert your 48" lathe, 17" bandsaw, tablesaw to 220? They will run far better if you can. So, that'll be something to think about.

 

[MRDucks2]

I have another question I hope to get some help on. I got my 6ga wire to run to the shop. I was wanting to come out of my house box, put a 50amp rv plug on the house and then run straight to the shop. Does anyone know if they make a feed-thru 50amp outlet? We have a 32 circuit box but all the spaces are full except the 60amp breaker that I will be using to run to the shop. Now first off, all the breakers are on and I do know there is a 20amp breaker going (labeled) to a garbage disposal that will not be used. Not sure about anything else yet. So here are my other questions.
1. Should I search for another breaker not being used and use the 2 spaces for a dedicated 50amp plug?
2. Would I be able to pigtail inside a 50amp plug box and just go out to shop from it?
3. Or do they make a 50amp box for the plug with outlet connections to continue to shop?
A side note is the shop is too far away to be running a 100' rv cord or I would just put one in at the shop. The house is 50' closer to our rv.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Bobby

Yes. A couple of previous houses I bought an "RV Panel" to install outside rather than building up my own. They are weatherproof enclosures pre-built for 30 amp RV, 50 amp RV or my last one had both with a 120v receptacle also.

Menards usually has good selection. In my case I always put them on the end of the shop circuit but they have the knockouts to run through.

Keep in mind that this becomes part of the total load on the circuit. It never was an issue for me because if someone was staying in the camper they were visiting and I wasn't doing much in the shop. Most of the time, the camper was just staying charged up with a single light in inside.

 

[bsshog40]

Thanks for both replies. First off to @PreacherJon , My 17" will convert to 220v but not sure about lathe. Considering changing it but I don't use it a whole lot and runs fine on 110v. Not sure what I'll do yet.
@MRDucks2 , thanks for the help. A buddy of mine just reminded me about a sub-panel. I'll probably go that route as it will dedicate a breaker to shop & rv. Won't have to pigtail.

 

[jttheclockman]

Yes. A couple of previous houses I bought an "RV Panel" to install outside rather than building up my own. They are weatherproof enclosures pre-built for 30 amp RV, 50 amp RV or my last one had both with a 120v receptacle also.

Menards usually has good selection. In my case I always put them on the end of the shop circuit but they have the knockouts to run through.

Keep in mind that this becomes part of the total load on the circuit. It never was an issue for me because if someone was staying in the camper they were visiting and I wasn't doing much in the shop. Most of the time, the camper was just staying charged up with a single light in inside.

 

[bsshog40]

Yea, same thing here. I had my rv outlet off my shop panel. If I was needing to run a/c or heat in the rv, I didn't run anything in my shop. Will be same situation here also.

 

[sbwertz]

When I converted my carport to a shop, I put in a second breaker box with all 20 amp circuits.

 

[bsshog40]

So I just finished burying my service from the house to the shop. Went ahead and threw a cold water line in my trench also just in case I can put in a hand washing sink. Lol Put in one outlet so I can have lighting for the rest of the work. Found out my old GE breakers that I had didn't fit the new panel so gonna have to get a 50amp main, couple 30's and a couple more 20's. It's a start anyway. Lol

 

[jttheclockman]

OH boy. You need to wire this as if you were going to sell the house and the panel goes with the house. It would need to pass code if selling. I think you should contact Jeff and talk to him about your install. He seemed up on all codes and is knowledgeable. I do not want to get into it but a few quick things. Where is the Main? Always use a connector when entering a panel. Do not run all that romex insulation within the panel. Cut it at the connector when you enter in panel so that you have the wires only in the panel. Allows for more room and neater. Use proper connectors for that type wire. You have the ground wire in the wrong place. It should be on the ground bar that is attached to the box. Jeff will explain to you how to wire your ground in. (New Code) The 2 terminal strips are for neutral wires. Without being able to see the inner working of the panel the 2 lugs on the top of left bar are so you can put a jumper to the other strip on the right if you are going to use it. What normally happens is what wires are landed on the left side breakers keeps the neutrals on same side. This goes for right side also. Makes for a neater job and easier to follow if need be. Always good to leave extra wire in case you need to move from one breaker to another. Good luck. One other thing are you plan on covering the walls and the outlet boxes not exposed? If not you need to use proper boxes.