jplifka
Member
Is there any "formal" or "official" criteria for designating someone a Novice, Journeyman, or Master Pen turner/maker?
Master Pen Maker Criteria
- Thread starter jplifka
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- journeyman master novice
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Dalecamino
Local Chapter Leader
I don't think I have an answer for this one, but I'll be interested in seeing some responses. Good question.
Lucky2
Member
Do people really need these titles, do they not already know what their pen turning status is already? IMO it's just giving some people a better chance to look down their noses at someone who doesn't have as much experience or the same quality of tools.
Len
Len
Andrew_K99
Member
Once you sell your first $1000 pen, you're a master. Until then you're (hopefully) doing something you enjoy.
AK
AK
Right now the only designation is pen turner. If your wishing to show the level of proficiency you have risen to, there is the Pen Makers Guild. You must apply to the guild and submit a pen of your making, usually you have to have something other than a kit pen for it to be accepted. And it needs to be made flawlessly. we did have some mighty long and strong debate on whether we were craftsmen or artists and whether or not we worked in a shop or a studio.
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Glenn McCullough
Member
what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?
A level 5 Fish Enticing Engineer:biggrin:
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
a man with leisure time!
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
You wanna be a master?
No sweat, you can truthfully say you are among the BEST penmakers in the world!!!
You rank in the top tenth of a percentile of the population (I doubt more than .1% of the population know or care HOW to make a pen).
Call yourself anything you like----when someone picks up your pen and evaluates the workmanship, you can smile if and when THEY call you a master. It is a good feeling!
It's an even better feeling if they buy the pen, putting THEIR money on YOUR workmanship.
No sweat, you can truthfully say you are among the BEST penmakers in the world!!!
You rank in the top tenth of a percentile of the population (I doubt more than .1% of the population know or care HOW to make a pen).
Call yourself anything you like----when someone picks up your pen and evaluates the workmanship, you can smile if and when THEY call you a master. It is a good feeling!
It's an even better feeling if they buy the pen, putting THEIR money on YOUR workmanship.
PenMan1
Member
Sorry, Glenn! I just can't help myself:biggrin:
The person you described is a Master Baiter:biggrin:
OKLAHOMAN
Member
LOTFLMFAO:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
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Dalecamino
Local Chapter Leader
Me too!!:biggrin::laugh:
Here I am trying to keep the thread out of the gutter.........
Oh well http://www.masterbaitonline.com/pr_shirts.htm
From a shop in a town just south of me.
Oh well http://www.masterbaitonline.com/pr_shirts.htm
From a shop in a town just south of me.
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chriselle
Member
I chuckled....but it kinda rubbed me the wrong way.:tongue:
jd99
Member
To be a master at any craft has nothing to do with money, the place where you practice your craft (Studio, shop or shed) or the cost of your tools, or the amount of tools you have.
Or arguing on a procedure or method to prove your a master. (Just Saying)
It is experiance, you practice your craft striving to be better, with each item you make, after years of this you will be a master, and there will always be someone that has mastered their craft just a little bit further than you. So there is no king of the mountain, and we all are masters at what ever level of the craft we are at at any point of time. :biggrin:
Or arguing on a procedure or method to prove your a master. (Just Saying)
It is experiance, you practice your craft striving to be better, with each item you make, after years of this you will be a master, and there will always be someone that has mastered their craft just a little bit further than you. So there is no king of the mountain, and we all are masters at what ever level of the craft we are at at any point of time. :biggrin:
Dalecamino
Local Chapter Leader
Then a Master Baiter....must have been doing it for quite some time.....and often
:biggrin:
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Jeeezzze, you guys should get out more!! That was very popular in high school!! 1960 something.
seamus7227
Member
Now that was funny, i dont care who you are, crude, but funny!:biggrin:
PTsideshow
Member
My mother is a master wood carver with the ribbons to prove it from the local wood carving group. To achieve that status one has to enter the monthly contests and win so many 1st places.
My father is a better carver than my mother, he never entered any of the monthly contests. He isn't approved to be called a master carver. It does irritate some of the other members to the nth degree. That my father never cared to enter. At the the club shows it would further irritate the same people when the public would make comments about how much better my fathers carvings were then the ones with the ribbons.
I always thought that the titles, were really to make somebody feel good about themselves.
They have the same pointless debate in clowning circles, people call themselves Master Clowns, or Master Level Clowns. They can't fall on their faces and pull a bouquet out of their a$$ and get a laugh, but they want to be referred to as a Master! The only thing they are a Master of is BS.
Always strive to do your best! And you then can say I am Master of my fate!
:clown:
My father is a better carver than my mother, he never entered any of the monthly contests. He isn't approved to be called a master carver. It does irritate some of the other members to the nth degree. That my father never cared to enter. At the the club shows it would further irritate the same people when the public would make comments about how much better my fathers carvings were then the ones with the ribbons.
I always thought that the titles, were really to make somebody feel good about themselves.
They have the same pointless debate in clowning circles, people call themselves Master Clowns, or Master Level Clowns. They can't fall on their faces and pull a bouquet out of their a$$ and get a laugh, but they want to be referred to as a Master! The only thing they are a Master of is BS.
Always strive to do your best! And you then can say I am Master of my fate!
:clown:
hilltopper46
Member
I've given this subject some thought in the past.
I don't have a bone to pick with the Pen Makers Guild so please don't take this next statement as criticism. The issue I have with their criteria for acceptance is to "(your) submission helps move the state of the art of pen making further. Perfection in fit and finish is expected along with a new or novel application in materials". I think this rules out some really good craftsmen (and women) who don't have a new or novel approach to the craft, but who can produce a pen to high standards of fit and finish. It would be interesting for a committee to develop some standards for acceptance into a level of craftsmanship that really have some meaning.
It would take time to develop the standards and there would need to be a mechanism in place to submit a variety of samples for examination. I think their might be room for a number of levels:
With only a little thought here are some ideas:
Pen maker Level One: Proficient at fit and finish with a variety of styles of pen where the hardware comes in a package that is commercially available :wink:. Barrel material is single piece of wood or acrylic.
Pen maker Level Two: Can produce a pen with parts used from a commercially available hardware package :wink: but with modifications or customizations that make a unique and pleasing style that is viable as a writing instrument in daily use. Barrel material is single piece of wood or acrylic.
Pen Artist Level One: Can produce a segmented blank that is attractive and uses at least three different species or colors of acrylic or metals or a combination thereof. One of the species, colors or metals can be used as an accent. The blank must be submitted on a pen that meets the level of Pen Maker Level One and must be viable for daily use as a writing instrument.
Pen Artist Level two: Can produce a cast blank that is attractive. The blank must be submitted on a pen that meets the level of Pen Maker Level One and must be viable for daily use as a writing instrument.
I think there would be room for a number of categories and sub-categories.
The thing that would keep this from happening is that it would require some time and effort on the part of a number of folks to establish the categories and then develop a consistent standard for judging the pens. A good thing would be to have the pen pass by the judges anonymously.
I think personally, that there are a number of us who would strive to meet the various levels, and I believe that the art of pen making is well enough established that these levels could be established and judged fairly objectively.
I don't have a bone to pick with the Pen Makers Guild so please don't take this next statement as criticism. The issue I have with their criteria for acceptance is to "(your) submission helps move the state of the art of pen making further. Perfection in fit and finish is expected along with a new or novel application in materials". I think this rules out some really good craftsmen (and women) who don't have a new or novel approach to the craft, but who can produce a pen to high standards of fit and finish. It would be interesting for a committee to develop some standards for acceptance into a level of craftsmanship that really have some meaning.
It would take time to develop the standards and there would need to be a mechanism in place to submit a variety of samples for examination. I think their might be room for a number of levels:
With only a little thought here are some ideas:
Pen maker Level One: Proficient at fit and finish with a variety of styles of pen where the hardware comes in a package that is commercially available :wink:. Barrel material is single piece of wood or acrylic.
Pen maker Level Two: Can produce a pen with parts used from a commercially available hardware package :wink: but with modifications or customizations that make a unique and pleasing style that is viable as a writing instrument in daily use. Barrel material is single piece of wood or acrylic.
Pen Artist Level One: Can produce a segmented blank that is attractive and uses at least three different species or colors of acrylic or metals or a combination thereof. One of the species, colors or metals can be used as an accent. The blank must be submitted on a pen that meets the level of Pen Maker Level One and must be viable for daily use as a writing instrument.
Pen Artist Level two: Can produce a cast blank that is attractive. The blank must be submitted on a pen that meets the level of Pen Maker Level One and must be viable for daily use as a writing instrument.
I think there would be room for a number of categories and sub-categories.
The thing that would keep this from happening is that it would require some time and effort on the part of a number of folks to establish the categories and then develop a consistent standard for judging the pens. A good thing would be to have the pen pass by the judges anonymously.
I think personally, that there are a number of us who would strive to meet the various levels, and I believe that the art of pen making is well enough established that these levels could be established and judged fairly objectively.
Linarestribe
Member
Your not a master until the person who taught you dies.
RustySplinters
Member
So I have to wait until all you bums die? No thanks I like learning from you alive personally.
BKelley
Member
I ain't trying to meet any levels. I strive to enjoy a hobby that has given me much pleasure with some financial returns.
Ben
Ben
Scott
Member
If you are trying to become a Master Penmaker, you likely never will.
It's a matter of dedication to quality, and a drive to try new things. In my mind, there is also an element of helping others to advance their skills.
You don't become a master because you want to, but rather you're a master because others consider you as such, usually long before you would ever be aware of it.
Good luck!
Scott.
It's a matter of dedication to quality, and a drive to try new things. In my mind, there is also an element of helping others to advance their skills.
You don't become a master because you want to, but rather you're a master because others consider you as such, usually long before you would ever be aware of it.
Good luck!
Scott.
terryf
Member
Im my shop/studio I am the master!
JMCU
Member
Titles aren't particularly important to me if I like the product (most important) and the recipient likes it then the label doesn't matter.
Sylvanite
Member
What if you're self-taught?
Seriously though, the term "master" only had meaning when crafts were goverened by guilds (or in current terms, unions). When the guild determined you had reached the level where you could run your own shop, take apprentices, teach your trade to others (and, of course, pay your guild dues), then you were a master. To prove to the guild that you were worthy, you had to produce a "master piece".
Acceptance to the Pen Makers' Guild is the closest analog we have for penturning.
Regards,
Eric
bitshird
Member
Andy, around this part of the country we have Many Expert Fishermen, you should see the way they bait the hook,:monkey:
Then on the other side is our very own "Master Scroller" (Jeff Powell) he's the real thing,
Ahh another great contributor missing for quite a while. I think the way he's proven him self a Master is by the amount of his work is seen around that people have purchased.
TellicoTurning
Member
I've always contended that titles don't really mean much... one of my favorite says is"
"Even the Queen needs a dollar to get a loaf of bread"
At one time in my life, I was the Vice-President and treasurer of my company, but I still swept the floor when it was dirty. The President and CEO worked in the warehouse loading and unloading trucks and packing freight.
"Even the Queen needs a dollar to get a loaf of bread"
At one time in my life, I was the Vice-President and treasurer of my company, but I still swept the floor when it was dirty. The President and CEO worked in the warehouse loading and unloading trucks and packing freight.
Displaced Canadian
Member
Titles don't ever really mean anything. At my last company a maintenance supervisor was "promoted" past me to assistant maintenance director of the north west region then was sent to work for me the, senior maintenance supervisor. Technically he was my boss and he made $3 more per hour, but when people asked who was in charge of the project the company owners said it was me.
If someone does one day call you a master pen maker just remember you got there by practice and pushing yourself to do better. Never stop trying to improve.
If someone does one day call you a master pen maker just remember you got there by practice and pushing yourself to do better. Never stop trying to improve.
jd99
Member
I've never been a master. been certified and certifiable :biggrin:, but never a master.
Class A Mold/Tool and Die maker
Certified Welder
Certified PC Tech (Pre CompTI A+ Certification)
A+ Certification
Certified Novell Administrator 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x...
Certified Novell Engineer 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x...
Certified Directory Engineer
Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert, all versions to date...
Cisco Certified Network Assoicate
And a bunch of other vendor Cetifications, but no master clasifications...:wink: :redface:
Class A Mold/Tool and Die maker
Certified Welder
Certified PC Tech (Pre CompTI A+ Certification)
A+ Certification
Certified Novell Administrator 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x...
Certified Novell Engineer 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x...
Certified Directory Engineer
Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert, all versions to date...
Cisco Certified Network Assoicate
And a bunch of other vendor Cetifications, but no master clasifications...:wink: :redface:
I've been an ASE Master Tech for about 10 years now. I'll never be a master pen maker as I don't have enough time to devote to it. I make a living with cars, and when I want to escape the reality of life, I make pens. Nobody to critique them but me, and if it takes me a week to make a pen, so be it.
alamocdc
Member
I love this little craft of ours, though some consider it more of a hobby. And that's okay too. It is what you want it to be. And it will be what you make of it. Some remain content to stay within the bounds of the packaged parts that some call "kits" and manufactured, or pre-cut blanks. Others choose to move forward away from both, and many in varying degrees. Does that make one any more proficient (hence, apprentice, journeyman and master) than another? It might, but not necessarily. For me, I don't wish to be pigeon holed. I know that I pale in comparison to the likes of folks like Brian Gray and the Gisi's. I also know that I have created some fairly accomplished pieces that others might find beyond their limits.
Here is the bottom line. If you need a title, by all means use one. Some people need those sorts of things in life. For me, I reached self-actualization ages ago and I'm happy with what I can do. And I keep pushing myself through boundries. I guess if I had a preference, I'd say just call me a pen artisan. And as a dear, departed friend and mentor was fond of saying, YMMV.
Here is the bottom line. If you need a title, by all means use one. Some people need those sorts of things in life. For me, I reached self-actualization ages ago and I'm happy with what I can do. And I keep pushing myself through boundries. I guess if I had a preference, I'd say just call me a pen artisan. And as a dear, departed friend and mentor was fond of saying, YMMV.
reiddog1
Member
I would consider myself a 5th degree master of having fun turning pens!! Just saying.
Dave
Dave
BSea
Member
Are you still an artist if your wife parks her car in your "studio"?
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
well then you ... ah ... might not be doing it right. :tongue:
Fatdawg
Member
A master craftsman or master tradesman is a member of a guild. In a guild only masters are allowed to be members of the guild.
An aspiring master would have to pass through the career chain from apprentice to journeyman before he could be elected to become a master craftsman. He would then have to produce a masterpiece before he could actually join the guild. If the masterpiece was not accepted by the masters, he was not allowed to join the guild, possibly remaining a journeyman for the rest of his life.
An aspiring master would have to pass through the career chain from apprentice to journeyman before he could be elected to become a master craftsman. He would then have to produce a masterpiece before he could actually join the guild. If the masterpiece was not accepted by the masters, he was not allowed to join the guild, possibly remaining a journeyman for the rest of his life.
CSue
Local Chapter Leader
ROFL:biggrin:
seamus7227
Member
Now thats funny, I dont care who you are!
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CSue
Local Chapter Leader
IMHO, the "Age" of "the Masters" is rarely applicable to craftsmen in these days. As someone already explained, the origin of the term came as one became skilled, knowledgeable and with enough profit that s/he could open their own business and teach others that craft or skill.
Understanding it now, I think attaining a true "Master . . . " title only comes when your peers in general recognize you have skills in this craft, knowledge enough to share and teach others, willingness and generosity and care enough for this craft that you not only yearn to do it with more and more skill, but you yearn to share your knowledge and skill and look forward to see others learn enough to succeed you.
There are a few in this group that I see many, in general, treat as Masters of some one or other aspects of this craft. There are a few I consider to be Masters in their own specialty of this craft. Not all of them are members of the Master Penmakers Guild. But they are Masters at their craft, none the less.
I have been given a "Master's" . . . And have a certificate to prove it. But not in any aspect of penturning or woodworking. And it doesn't matter to me, though I did work hard to attain that rank. What matters to me is sharing whatever knowledge, skill and passion I have gleaned through those Masters I've learned from . . . To perpetuate this craft.
Earning the title of "Master of " isn't worth spit if you don't share your skill and talent and help others attain the same. If all it does is give you a title to "lord over" others, you are not worthy of the title.
Just my opinion. And not mean to offend anyone.
Understanding it now, I think attaining a true "Master . . . " title only comes when your peers in general recognize you have skills in this craft, knowledge enough to share and teach others, willingness and generosity and care enough for this craft that you not only yearn to do it with more and more skill, but you yearn to share your knowledge and skill and look forward to see others learn enough to succeed you.
There are a few in this group that I see many, in general, treat as Masters of some one or other aspects of this craft. There are a few I consider to be Masters in their own specialty of this craft. Not all of them are members of the Master Penmakers Guild. But they are Masters at their craft, none the less.
I have been given a "Master's" . . . And have a certificate to prove it. But not in any aspect of penturning or woodworking. And it doesn't matter to me, though I did work hard to attain that rank. What matters to me is sharing whatever knowledge, skill and passion I have gleaned through those Masters I've learned from . . . To perpetuate this craft.
Earning the title of "Master of " isn't worth spit if you don't share your skill and talent and help others attain the same. If all it does is give you a title to "lord over" others, you are not worthy of the title.
Just my opinion. And not mean to offend anyone.