learn from me...A $500 pen should last

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A while back I posted an issue with the broadwell pens of the cap just spinning on the threads. This is one of my eye candy damascus fountian pens. It takes almost 6" of 0.750" dia. stock. Here is what I learned from PSI tech. (whome are awesome pepole). The black tube which holds the cap band and threads can crack and or can be the wrong size. I had them send me 2 new ones based on my order and just got them the other day. I then had my outside sales rep bring me the 2 defective pens from a show he was doing for me. Under examination; the tubes were not cracked nor mismatched. what I did find is the threads were worn (probably from all the people opening, posting, and closing the pens) I swapped out the bad ones for the new ones and they work great. What I learned from this ...only make pens with plastic to plastic threads or better yet metal to metal threads and not metal to plastic. sorry PSI no more broadwell for me but, keep up the superior coustimer service you guys are awesome.
 

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thewishman

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Vincent, be careful of metal-to-metal threads, too. You'll find that the platings will wear, both at the threads and where the grip section bumps into the cap centerband. Unless your customer's (and potential customers') aim is perfect, the grip will bang into the inner metal of the cap and scratch the plating.
 

ed4copies

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And metal to metal will vibrate, loosening the cap in the user's pocket, creating ink stains on the shirt. This only happens when they are wearing their $200 shirt, which they will want you to replace, since your pen was obviously defective.

DAMHIKT!!
 

ed4copies

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If you have plastic on plastic, it will require you to make the coupler plastic (with current design, open to correction if you have a new way of doing it). This was tried on the Churchill, some years ago. Penmakers screamed bloody murder about the coupler breaking, so Berea had to retrofit a metal coupler, which is the design currently in use.

So, yes the plastic to metal is not perfect, but it is better than either of the current options--again, open to a redesign that changes this "equation".
 

magpens

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Vincent,

Thank you for your detailed comments. . Very interesting and useful.

That is an exquisitely beautiful pen, definitely eye candy, and I am sorry to hear about the problems with the threads.

I wish I had the skills and whatever to work with Damascus. . It is one of the prime materials for top echelon pens, in my opinion.
 
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DavidD

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Great looking pen!

Might I ask what avenues you've found to be successful in receiving support from PSI? I have had a lot of unanswered e-mails and phone messages, and just curious if you have any suggestions?
 

magpens

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I have successfully got satisfactory response by phoning the number on the first web page.

At one time, I was given an email address that works too. It is, if I remember correctly:

woodshop@pennstateind.com

But you always have to be prepared to "push uphill firmly" if it is anything except a very minor problem or an order fulfillment mistake. . And don't let gruffness put you off.

I have never had any response from any other PSI email address.



Great looking pen!

Might I ask what avenues you've found to be successful in receiving support from PSI? I have had a lot of unanswered e-mails and phone messages, and just curious if you have any suggestions?
 

DavidD

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I have successfully got satisfactory response by phoning the number on the first web page.

At one time, I was given an email address that works too. It is, if I remember correctly:

woodshop@pennstateind.com

But you always have to be prepared to "push uphill firmly" if it is anything except a very minor problem or an order fulfillment mistake. . And don't let gruffness put you off.

I have never had any response from any other PSI email address.



Great looking pen!

Might I ask what avenues you've found to be successful in receiving support from PSI? I have had a lot of unanswered e-mails and phone messages, and just curious if you have any suggestions?

Thanks for the advice! Nice to have another specific e-mail to try. :)
 

Dale Allen

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I know I'll get beat up for this but.... it seems to me that if the metal threads and plastic socket are properly design, there should be no wear on the plastic. I had some Jr gent 2 sets about 2 years ago that were cutting up the starer thread in the plastic and it looked like it was a design flaw in the first thread of the metal. It was too sharp and cut into the plastic. Some of them even began cross threading.
 

magpens

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I am not going to beat you up, Dale ... I have had the same experience.

Unfortunately, not many of us have any control over the designer/manufacturer aspects of pen kits ... we just take what we get and don't know how to complain to the people with ears to listen.

I get the impression that very few pen kit designers/manufacturers ever make pens themselves. . And I also get the impression that this branch of manufacturing technology is still in the dark ages.

I guess the market for pen kits, compared to other consumer products, is very small and hardly warrants much re-design effort. . But I firmly believe that re-design of many pen kits is long overdue.
 

SteveG

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A while back I posted an issue with the broadwell pens of the cap just spinning on the threads. This is one of my eye candy damascus fountian pens. It takes almost 6" of 0.750" dia. stock. Here is what I learned from PSI tech. (whome are awesome pepole). The black tube which holds the cap band and threads can crack and or can be the wrong size. I had them send me 2 new ones based on my order and just got them the other day. I then had my outside sales rep bring me the 2 defective pens from a show he was doing for me. Under examination; the tubes were not cracked nor mismatched. what I did find is the threads were worn (probably from all the people opening, posting, and closing the pens) I swapped out the bad ones for the new ones and they work great. What I learned from this ...only make pens with plastic to plastic threads or better yet metal to metal threads and not metal to plastic. sorry PSI no more broadwell for me but, keep up the superior coustimer service you guys are awesome.


I have sold many capped pens over the years, mostly some variety of "Jr" series, and also the PSI Broadwell NS (same model as your photo). I have had some returned for repair due to defect of the nylon cap threads (These all have metal barrel threads that mate with the nylon cap threads.) I determined by inspection that in EVERY case, the so-called 'defect' was due to the user over-torquing the threads to the point they failed. I was eyewitness for two of that type of failure. Both of those events went something like this: as I was remarking about the pen being a precision writing instrument, the boob holding it was proving that he possessed ape-like strength in both his hands and his head :eek: I will note this: after one person applies too much torque, and somewhat mangles the threads, the pen might still function sort of OK. Eventually the threads will fail due to the initial over torquing event. If over-torquing had occurred with plastic-on-plastic threads, failure would also have occurred.

My opinion and experience indicates that failure of these metal-to-plastic threads is the result of user error (ape grip vs. appropriate fingertip control). The lack of any pens coming back due to normal use wear on the the threads to the point of failure indicates to me it is a good design. I have had a few pen kits that just never worked smoothly, but these never were sold in that condition.
 

SteveG

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I know I'll get beat up for this but.... it seems to me that if the metal threads and plastic socket are properly design, there should be no wear on the plastic. I had some Jr gent 2 sets about 2 years ago that were cutting up the starer thread in the plastic and it looked like it was a design flaw in the first thread of the metal. It was too sharp and cut into the plastic. Some of them even began cross threading.

Dale, as I read your comment, it occurred to me that the problem you noted could have been a design flaw, or a manufacturing flaw. If a manufacturing flaw, it could have been just one that came off the machine defective, or it could have been many in a run that got by QA. If it were a design flaw, then every part that was made would exhibit the same problem (at least until the design was updated to correct the problem.) Either way, you are right in saying that for a proper design,"...there should be no wear on the plastic.":)
 

Dale Allen

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I'll add a bit of experience to the discussion with regard to the 'manufacturing quality' that magpens referred to.
I had purchased 12 chrome Jr Gnt2 kits and had 4 of them with threads in the nib adapter that would not screw together. They sent me 4 new nib ends and 2 of those had the same problem. It looked like either the threads were not proper formed or the plating filled in the thread grooves. I suspect it was the plating because most likely the parts are cast and not machined. While their customer service is quite good, sending me parts with the same problem is not particularly helpful.
There is obviously a problem but neither vendor nor manufacturer is aware or interested in fixing it.
 

thewishman

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Another potential problem is due to people grasping the pen in both hands are pulling apart the barrels like a snap fit pen. Those people are not slowed by the maker declaring that it screws together.
 
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Great looking pen!

Might I ask what avenues you've found to be successful in receiving support from PSI? I have had a lot of unanswered e-mails and phone messages, and just curious if you have any suggestions?

I just call the main number and ask for tech support.then they help or send new parts.never had any issues with their helping me
 
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If you have plastic on plastic, it will require you to make the coupler plastic (with current design, open to correction if you have a new way of doing it). This was tried on the Churchill, some years ago. Penmakers screamed bloody murder about the coupler breaking, so Berea had to retrofit a metal coupler, which is the design currently in use.

So, yes the plastic to metal is not perfect, but it is better than either of the current options--again, open to a redesign that changes this "equation".

Thx for the comment I will have a relook at the issue and tell the people looking at the pens that they are not torquing head bolts...lol
 

SJScher

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I have to admit that I have only called the PSI support people twice now, but both times I got great response. On a bad revolver pen they sent the replacement part and I received it within three days.
 

Curly

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Part of the reason the threads go is because of their design. They are a shallow "square" thread and it is easy to start them when they are not in line with each other. The ramp at the start of the thread can start over the ramp on the other part until it starts to bind. Then continued force deforms the plastic. If the thread was deeper it would have a blunt start and could only fit between the grooves instead of climbing over. The pen parts being thin do not leave enough material to make a blunt start in addition to being designed not to have any areas that will catch or feel sharp when handled. Nature of the beast, especially when handled by twits. If you can, instruct the buyers to gently turn the thread "backwards" until they feel it click into alignment before turning the parts "forward" to cap the pen.
 

magpens

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If you can, instruct the buyers to gently turn the thread "backwards" until they feel it click into alignment before turning the parts "forward" to cap the pen.
I learned that "backwards turning" trick when I was very young playing with Meccano and other things. I was always making stuff, it seems, that involved threading things onto other things.

My dad thought I was handicapped when I "turned backwards" to start and he never did catch on !!!

He'd always say, "No ! Turn it the other way !"
 

moke

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I own and operate a Photographic Studio. I also had a Camera Store until 2010, that employed a Certified Camera Repairman. I closed it because that business was and is making a transitions and the Camera Companies are a group of glutinous companies that only want to sell to big box stores and give no customer service to anyone.

Anyway, the camera repair man and I used to talk about various aspects of lens and camera design. The focusing mechanism is called a helicoid. Helicoids are basically a fine screw system. The better quality lenses are brass against steel rings that screw against each other..They last a very long time (like old Nikkor) then there is fiberglass against fiberglass which lasts a decent amount of time, but are not very durable...but the worst, in this guys opinion, was fiberglass or plastic against steel. It was their idea to make it more durable, but it wore greatly and was also not very durable. Now why would one of the most expensive/decorative pens available be plastic against metal? I might move on to another design.
Just my .02
 
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Dale Allen

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The metal threads are not cut sharp so the starting thread is not 'normally' apt to cut into the first internal thread. However, as Pete noted, they are flat and prone to cross threading because there is no way the staring threads are guided into the correct orientation. I think it is a matter of whatever the designers can get to work with the least amount of effort. The 'effort' to design with a high degree of smooth operation is just not cost effective, even for a kit that we pay 15 or 20 dollars for. That $20 kit costs far less to make. And, they could probably not sell very many kits at 4 times that price.
 

SteveG

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One thing I have noticed has to do with Dayacom highest-end kits. The write-up at CSUSA (long ago) proclaimed extra attention to everything in the design/mfr process. I always observed that these kits, which are metal-on-nylon for the cap threads, actually DID feel like they ran smooth, very smooth. So in this limited degree of my personal observations, it seemed that a bit of extra attention by the vendor had produced a superior product. That being the case, I believe it would translate into an improved durability. I also note that probably most Emperor and similar sized pens rarely see every day usage. This will obviously contribute to product life, counted in years, (not usage cycles). :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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