Haynie
Member
Can any comment on these. I have never seen or worked with either and am looking for reviews.
Kutzall or King Arthur Galahad
- Thread starter Haynie
- Start date
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Ed McDonnell
Member
I'm guessing (but not sure) that you are interested in structured carbide carving wheels. I used kutzall structured carbide burrs and wheels for years when I was heavily into carving my woodturnings. They were my goto choice for everything but the finishing work. They tended to load up when carving green wood, but it was manageable. A coarse wheel would agressively remove wood. Not quite as fast at the chainsaw type wheels that are available, but much much safer and much much more controlled. I tried a chain wheel once and threw it away.
Looking through the catalogs these days, I don't see Kutzall wheels anymore. It seems like most vendors are carrying the "holey" gallahad or the saburr tooth.
I wouldn't try and use them on pens. A foredom with smaller carbide burrs would be much more useful for pens.
Don't know if this is of any use to you or not. But there you go.
Ed
Looking through the catalogs these days, I don't see Kutzall wheels anymore. It seems like most vendors are carrying the "holey" gallahad or the saburr tooth.
I wouldn't try and use them on pens. A foredom with smaller carbide burrs would be much more useful for pens.
Don't know if this is of any use to you or not. But there you go.
Ed
Lucky2
Member
We've used them years ago, both brands, and I'll tell you now that you had better be ready when you pull the trigger. Don't use either of them with anyone standing near you, and have the project securely attached to something that's solid, or it will go flying off in any direction. If you pull the trigger before your ready, it could possibly lead to serious injury with a kickback or a runaway tool which could do harm to you or anyone near you. Plus, it would most likely ruin whatever your working on, by running across the face of it. Please be very careful if you do decide to purchase one of these items, they are as dangerous as anything that you'll ever come across in your woodworking trades. There's vidoes and horror stories out there that are extremely graffic and gory in detail, I think that you can see some of the stories about the accidents on You Tube. I got rid of the ones we owned years ago, they were to dangerous to have hanging around, and I didn't have much use for them for years as we stopped doing that type of work.
Len
Len
Ed McDonnell
Member
Hi Len - I didn't find the structured carbide wheels used in an angle grinder to be particularly dangerous. Let's make sure we are all talking about the same thing.
Here's a kutzall:
Here's a gallahad:
It's pretty much the same as the kutzall, except it has holes. They supposedly let you "see through" the tool while you are working so you don't have to keep starting and stopping. That wouldn't be useful for me though. I carve as much by feel as I do by sight. So I would always be stopping the tool to check my work anyway. Plus, holes = less carbide = less cutting action.
Here's what I think Len is talking about:
I would agree that these chain wheels are insanely dangerous. Sort of like using your lawnmower to trim your hedges. It will work, but one mistake and the consequences are severe.
Ed
Here's a kutzall:
Here's a gallahad:
It's pretty much the same as the kutzall, except it has holes. They supposedly let you "see through" the tool while you are working so you don't have to keep starting and stopping. That wouldn't be useful for me though. I carve as much by feel as I do by sight. So I would always be stopping the tool to check my work anyway. Plus, holes = less carbide = less cutting action.
Here's what I think Len is talking about:
I would agree that these chain wheels are insanely dangerous. Sort of like using your lawnmower to trim your hedges. It will work, but one mistake and the consequences are severe.
Ed
Haynie
Member
Not for pens. I am looking for a way to remove lots of wood really fast from things like chair seats or carved bowls. I thought about the chainsaw things for a few seconds and decided it would not give me the control I need and the safety factor was an issue too.
None of these are cheap. How long would you say they last?
None of these are cheap. How long would you say they last?
Last edited:
Ed McDonnell
Member
I've only used the kutzall, but I think you would find the gallahad and saburr tooth to be the same. I bought a set around 2006 and used them extensively for about 5 years. They still carve fine. These days I use one of my CNC machines for most carving duty and don't use the kutzall much.
On dry non resinous wood, a brass brush will clean out any accumulation as long as you aren't burning the wood. Wet or resinous wood will pack in the carbide and will have to be periodically cleaned. A dental pick works well for this (once again as long as you haven't burned wood). If the pick can't get it, you can burn it out with a torch.
A lot of chairmakers seem to swear by the arbortech. I've not had the chance to work with one, but I'm told they are more controllable than the chain wheels. I would want to try one before dropping the bucks on one.
Power carving is faster (in some respects) than hand carving, but it still takes time. You can speed up the process by using a drill or router/jig for roughing and bulk wood removal. You will need to sand / plane to get your final finish.
Running the kutzall into metal, stone, glass or other non-wood stuff will shorten its life considerably.
Ed
On dry non resinous wood, a brass brush will clean out any accumulation as long as you aren't burning the wood. Wet or resinous wood will pack in the carbide and will have to be periodically cleaned. A dental pick works well for this (once again as long as you haven't burned wood). If the pick can't get it, you can burn it out with a torch.
A lot of chairmakers seem to swear by the arbortech. I've not had the chance to work with one, but I'm told they are more controllable than the chain wheels. I would want to try one before dropping the bucks on one.
Power carving is faster (in some respects) than hand carving, but it still takes time. You can speed up the process by using a drill or router/jig for roughing and bulk wood removal. You will need to sand / plane to get your final finish.
Running the kutzall into metal, stone, glass or other non-wood stuff will shorten its life considerably.
Ed
Haynie
Member
Torch? really? It does not melt the epoxy or whatever is holding the carbide bits in?
Ed McDonnell
Member
Whatever the carbide coating is, it doesn't use epoxy. I've used cheap home depot propane torches on mine with no problem. If you have some kind of super plasma torch that cuts through tank armor or something, you might not want to use that.
Here's some info you might find useful.
Coatings | Kutzall | Oliver Carbide Products
I used the "original". I think I might try the "extreme" if I were buying today.
Ed
Here's some info you might find useful.
Coatings | Kutzall | Oliver Carbide Products
I used the "original". I think I might try the "extreme" if I were buying today.
Ed
PTsideshow
Member
I have currently the chain saw type and have had the arbor tech for years. I have to say that the chain style will eat you up with one slight wrong move or loosening the grip while it is turning.
Here is what it looks like on a 4 1/2" angle grinder
Here is what the arbor tech looks like with an adapter kit for a 4 1/2" angle grinder
Here are the cutters
They also now have a larger dia cutter for the grinders. Here is the web site
Arbortech
The chain ones aren't good in close quarters or tight spaces. They work well in open areas with the work well secured. Have a friend on a metal artist site that had one of the chain saw types eat his hand a couple months ago it will look real ugly and he can always say he was in a fight and the other guy took a bite out of his hand! But he didn't loose any fingers or any use of the hand.
And it was all from just adjusting his grip and it bite a hard spot in the wood and came out of his one hand. He had the other handle, or else it would have spot in his stomach!
As far as the carbide disks and burrs go the carbide grains are permanently bonded to the bases. Using a torch to burn off the resins won't damage them as you are moving the torch head using the torch with a wire brtush will speed up the process.
Here is what it looks like on a 4 1/2" angle grinder
Here is what the arbor tech looks like with an adapter kit for a 4 1/2" angle grinder
Here are the cutters
They also now have a larger dia cutter for the grinders. Here is the web site
Arbortech
The chain ones aren't good in close quarters or tight spaces. They work well in open areas with the work well secured. Have a friend on a metal artist site that had one of the chain saw types eat his hand a couple months ago it will look real ugly and he can always say he was in a fight and the other guy took a bite out of his hand! But he didn't loose any fingers or any use of the hand.
And it was all from just adjusting his grip and it bite a hard spot in the wood and came out of his one hand. He had the other handle, or else it would have spot in his stomach!
As far as the carbide disks and burrs go the carbide grains are permanently bonded to the bases. Using a torch to burn off the resins won't damage them as you are moving the torch head using the torch with a wire brtush will speed up the process.
Last edited: