Kitless pen tooling

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Hunter1787

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Hi there. My name is John. I started turning kit pens about five months ago. Since then I have turned slimlines, cigars, .50 cal pens and fountain pens. The problem that I keep coming up against is the limitation imposed by the kits. About all I can do is turn the blank to the correct size. I want to be able to control more of the pen then just the blank diameter. So I started looking at kitless pen making. I read all of the tutorials that I could find but I still have some questions.

What taps and dies do you use??? I figure that this question is better then me asking what I should buy. So if possible, could you post pictures of your pen(s) and the taps and dies used to make it (them)?

What type of chuck? How about this one Mini Chuck
Or should I go for a collet chuck? Or a four jaw chuck?

Drill bit sizes? Is it best to buy a big set or just as I need them?

Various other things that have made making kitless pens easier/better/faster/etc for you?

Thanks much,

John
 
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John, I'm suggesting the following:

Hunter1787 said:
Hi there. My name is John. I started turning kit pens about five months ago. Since then I have turned slimlines, cigars, .50 cal pens and fountain pens. The problem that I keep coming up against is the limitation imposed by the kits. About all I can do is turn the blank to the correct size. I want to be able to control more of the pen then just the blank diameter. So I started looking at kitless pen making. I read all of the tutorials that I could find but I still have some questions.

What taps and dies do you use??? I figure that this question is better then me asking what I should buy. So if possible, could you post pictures of your pen(s) and the taps and dies used to make it (them)?

I use 7.4 x .5 tap for the Mesiternib #6 nib holders, which carry my favorite nibs.

I use mostly the 10 x 1 T&D set for the section/barrel joint.

I use mostly the 14 x .8 T&D set for the cap/barrel joint. You should start however with a 14 x .75, which is much less expensive and only slightly inferior. Below is a typical pen:

attachment.php



What type of chuck? How about this one Mini Chuck
Or should I go for a collet chuck? Or a four jaw chuck?
No question, you need a collet chuck to make "kitless" pens.

Drill bit sizes? Is it best to buy a big set or just as I need them?

Buy the big set including the lettered, numbered, and English bits. You also need a metric set from about 5 mm to 13 mm in half mms. If you use the 14 x .8 or 14 x .75 set for the cap/barrel joint, you'll need a bit for drilling the cap. I use 17/32", which will need to be special ordered because it's not in a set. Try Amazon, eBay, or google the size. You'll be drilling plastics so quality is not a huge issue. Just don't use the bits on metals and then expect them to work well in plastics again without a sharpening.

Various other things that have made making kitless pens easier/better/faster/etc for you?

Seriously, the main thing that made "kitless" pens easier for me is retirement. You will need lots of time to learn before you get your first one done. Then too, I've been doing them for about 9 months and I still spend anywhere from 4 to 10 hours on a pen. I just finished another pen like the one shown above in about 6 hours.

And as I have said before in another thread, making kitless pens is not the whole story. If you intend to sell them, you will need to understand the "culture" of fountain pens and fountain pen enthusiasts (collectors).

Best of luck!
Thanks much,

John
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Thanks loads! The is a really nice pen. Do you use a triple start tap and die for threading the cap/barrel? I have read several threads (no pun intended) on the issue and still have not really decided if the significantly greater cost for the 3x set is worth it. Admittedly I am just starting in kitless but I want to do it right.

Thanks again,

John
 
Hunter1787 said:
Thanks loads! The is a really nice pen. Do you use a triple start tap and die for threading the cap/barrel? I have read several threads (no pun intended) on the issue and still have not really decided if the significantly greater cost for the 3x set is worth it. Admittedly I am just starting in kitless but I want to do it right.

Thanks again,

John
Click to expand...

I do use the triple start sets, but they're very expensive and of rather dubious value, IMHO. I'd get the 14 x .75 or even 14 x 1. Down the road, if you really have to have the triple start, they'll still be available.

There's so much expense to the tools, you'd be better off spending your available funds elsewhere. Also, you could make do with a four-jaw chuck with a set of spigot jaws, but unless you already have that, you'd be much better off buying an ER-32 collet chuck set-up from PSI and then getting a set of 18 metric collets from 3 mm to 20 mm in 1 mm increments. (ER 32 COLLET SET 18 PIECE METRIC COLLETS MariTool) With that set you can chuck everything you need to chuck.
 
Thanks. Looks like single start (hope that is what they are called) are they way to go. They're way cheaper too, which is a big bonus.

I think that I will probably go with the four jaw chuck. The collet chuck looks great but price wise I think that the 4 jaw is a better fit for me.

This pen thing is really fun, also kinda expensive. :biggrin:

Thanks for your help,

John
 
Hunter1787 said:
Thanks. Looks like single start (hope that is what they are called) are they way to go. They're way cheaper too, which is a big bonus.

I think that I will probably go with the four jaw chuck. The collet chuck looks great but price wise I think that the 4 jaw is a better fit for me.

This pen thing is really fun, also kinda expensive. :biggrin:

Thanks for your help,

John
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The collet set shown is very expensive, look around (other threads on here re collet sets) & on-line, flea bay etc you can get a decent collet set for around $100. Search for ER32 collets or ER32 collet chucks, make sure it fits your lathe (1", #2MT etc)

http://www.discount-tools.com/er32-collet-set.cfm

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2558

& I know I've seen them cheaper than that & yes, you're correct this penturning thing is expensive!
here's a set for $95 don't know what shipping is though
http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=er32&cat=11
 
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Hunter1787 said:
Thanks. Looks like single start (hope that is what they are called) are they way to go. They're way cheaper too, which is a big bonus.

I think that I will probably go with the four jaw chuck. The collet chuck looks great but price wise I think that the 4 jaw is a better fit for me.

This pen thing is really fun, also kinda expensive. :biggrin:

Thanks for your help,

John
Click to expand...

don't cause yourself issues by trying to save a penny or two. As mentioned they can be picked up at a good price. Not sure if you realise with a 4 jaw chuck is that each jaw is independantly controlled so they can grip obscure shaped items, and because of this chucking up a piece of stock is not so straight forward. you wil need to run a finger dial around the piece to ensure its chucked up true.

Collets get my vote... i have a three jaw chuck and keep meaning to make the worthiwhile upgrade of going to a collet. I have a collet setup on my mill and swear by it for holding the bit true.. just as important as your workpiece as you will soon come to realise. once youve removed your work from a 3 or 4 jaw truck, good luck at putting it back in the chuck keeping it perfectly true as it was before removing it.

food for thought...
 
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Brad I think the 4 jaw he is talking about is one of the woodworking 4 jaw scroll types with the jaws that can be changed rather than a 4 jaw independent metal one. The woodworking ones can't be dialled in.
 
Thanks for your input. Yep, I was talking about the woodworking chucks that open and close simultaneously. I am not sure how accurate they are, undoubtedly less accurate then the collet chucks, but I know that several kitless pen makers have gotten by on them for quite some time and I'm willing to spend the extra amount of time necessary to ensure good results so long as the original cost is lower. That's just me.

Thanks again for your advice.

John
 
Hunter1787 said:
Thanks for your input. Yep, I was talking about the woodworking chucks that open and close simultaneously. I am not sure how accurate they are, undoubtedly less accurate then the collet chucks, but I know that several kitless pen makers have gotten by on them for quite some time and I'm willing to spend the extra amount of time necessary to ensure good results so long as the original cost is lower. That's just me.

Thanks again for your advice.

John
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They're not as bad as engineer's chucks but definitely can be knuckle busters. Watch out!::beat-up:
 
I have both the G3 & a collet chuck. After I got my collet chuck the G3 is just used for bowls now.

And as far as the cap threads. I'd look at the pens you like now. My favorites size are up to the jr gent II size, and I really like the size of the jr gent I/baron/sedona best. So my max cap thread size that I make is 12mm. So before you go buying lots of tap & die sets, you might do a little planning on the size of pen you want to make.

I just bought a set of 11mm X .75 just because i want to make a really thin pen. I haven't used it yet, but I think it should work ok as long as I use something like ebonite or alumilite. I think PR might be a bit brittle for a pen that thin.
 
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