HVAC help?

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thewishman

thewishman

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
8,254
Location
Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA.
My Philco 4 tube gas furnace isn't running. There is a red light on the circuit board that flashes 4 times, several clicks and starts, but the gas never comes on.

Will post pics as soon as I can.
 
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That red light general indicates a hard fault code. Three or more attempts to start and turn off. Then it after faults out. I have never heard of the philco brand and have been doing this for 35 years. It is most likely another main brand under a special labeling agreement to play off of a well know brand name. For sure call a real repair company. But in the mean time try turning off the power depending on the faul code that may reset the machine. Some will not reset because they are more serious faults. Wait a minute or two and turn it back on. There is also a safety switch on the door on the bottom compartment. Make sure the door is closed and latched well. Even if it, it starts call for service because it will most likely happen again. These are usally not one off shut downs. There are really no parts in it you can service your self. Hopefully it will be a simple part to fix and not cost to much.
 
I thought the same as Tom. I am a Master Electrician and have been for 40+ years. I also do not know that brand. You can find things out online by doing a web search of your model number. I have had some luck with basic troubleshooting. Also, make sure you do not have a blockage in the flue someplace. I am not sure how much snow you have, but I have seen situations where the flue was blocked and safetys would not allow the furnace to operate. Definitely try shutting off ALL power for a few minutes and see if it will reset on it's own. If it does, keep it running as long as you can to get the house warm tonight and then if it fails again, you will at least start with a warm house
 
Chris,

A blinking led 4 times typically indicates ignition failure. Check the obvious - gas supply good? Then verify your igniter is heating up, it should glow. If so, verify it's not been knocked out of whack and needs adjusted. If this is all ok, find your gas valve, put a meter on it and verify you have 24 volts to the valve when the furnace starts up. If so, your gas valve is likely bad. If not, it's likely a control board. It's likely you will need a technician. Best of luck!
 
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Mitch,
Great thought on the flue. We do not have tons of gas here in Florida. Usally Goodman or Ducan have many diffrent names they label and they are very similar.
Not sure how old the furnace is but if he needs a new one and if thewishman is going to stay in the home they make 95% efficent furnaces. They are really good and really cheap to keep. Not cheap to buy. Trane has a nice one and so does Carrier. Also a question is if it is tied in to central A/C. Either way 95% is great stuff.
Tom
 
Very little snow - the gas tries to come on for about 3 seconds, then shuts off. The cycle runs three times and then gives the 4 flash again. High-limit switch?

Tried turning power off and leaving it off. after it powers on, it goes through the three cycles again. The fan will not come on, even when set to on on the thermostat.

Thanks for the help!
 
definitely sounds like an ignition issue. Not sure if your model uses an electronic ignition, or has a standing pilot or a glow type of ignition. You should be able to see the ignition try to work. I had a furnace a few years back that used a glow module.. and I replaced it twice in 3 years.

I also had a similar issue on my own furnace. I replaced the control board and it fixed the problem for 2 years. Last year it started acting up again and I was about to replace the furnace, and went online to read about issues. On my furnace there was an issue that popped up often and it had to do with the plug connections between the top and bottom half of the furnace. After enough operations, and time and just being older, the connection corroded enough to not let the spark work well enough to light the main gas. I ended up just installing a new wire through a new hole and without any connection except at the ends and it has worked perfectly every since. I think the new board I replaced was not necessary now, but solved the problem because it had just that much better of an ignition to work, for a while. I bet I could have saved myself a few hundred dollars and replaced the wire and it would have worked. It was really weird because it appeared to work, just not well enough
 
Okay, found the wiring diagram and FINALLY the legend. 4 flashes ignition failure, check ground. rps20150219_222236_467.jpg
 
well it is obviously a fairly new furnace. Any idea how old? When I did a quick search it came up with Philco and that they have a 10 year warranty on parts. That would make me hesitant to do much if it is still in warranty.

That said, you could check the connections on the hot surface ignitor and make sure the are all good. Typically you can see the hot surface ignitor work as it literally glows red when it operates. If it is not glowing, and all connections are clean and tight, I would think probably it is the ignitor. It may be the control board, but I would lean towards the ignitor first.

It looks as if you are probably going to have to get a service tech out to diagnose the issue. Sorry I could not be more help
 
I got the igniter out and there is a crack in it. It doesn't heat up or glow, so I'm searching for a 24 hour parts place. No luck so far...

-3 outside, going to -8 by morning. Down to 57 in the house.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.
 
If it is the igniter, make sure you have as close to exact replacement as possible. The wrong igniter can cause explosion!!
Several years ago an older lady called me about her furnace making a "popping noise" I sat on my tool bucket in front of the furnace and tried to start it. The igniter glowed and I heard the gas valve click open. Before I could turn the furnace off, I was on the floor with singed eyebrows.
Went to my truck and looked up what it should take and The "cheaper" furnace man put the wrong one in.
Using an unqualified HVAC technician or doing it yourself could lead to disaster!!!
 
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