HF Dust Collector Mods II

[ctubbs]

My humble apologies to all. I did not include enough data and have received questions so here goes with the separator lid details. Also, the filter I used, the 9L300NANO is not the one that Wynn is showing now on their mods. The new filter is much shorter and bigger around to give less problem with low head room in the shop. When I bought mine it was the only one with 99.999% >5 micron filtration. Now the one they show is as good. Take your choice but PLEASE USE SOMETHING!
Attached, if I can make it work, you will find my newest pdf. As always, any questions or complaints, post them here or pm me. I have collected enough help here that I defiantly owe.
Charles

 

[Fred]

Charles ... I have made five of these for myself and friends and am in the process of making a few more.

Phil Thien's (yes, you mis-spelled his name but I won't tell him) dimensions are quite exact. He has tested his design and others have as well, and many have reported excellent results in using his baffle design. Look near the bottom of his page for the Discussion Forum. Read as much as you possibly can stand to read.

To me it appears that your baffle is way to close to the lid. Also, the relief (cut out) does not go around the can enough to create a proper 'cyclone effect' down the sides of the can. That cyclone effect is what makes the baffle so effective along with gravity pulling all the heavies out of the path of the air. It is not necessarily the interference of the baffle as much as it is the sling effect of the cyclone air current and gravity that make this design work.

Go to http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm and re-read it all. Look very closely at the pictures of his device. You will see that the 'Input elbow" is much deeper than your's and is about an inch above the top of the baffle. It must also be directed toward the side of the can at an angle. This allows the remaining debris to again circulate around the cut out section of the baffle. Your way pinches the air flat and thus forces the air to the center which defeats the purpose to some extent.

The exhaust (center piece) doesn't really go very deep into the lid, but this where you need to experiment a bit for improvement on your own system. I have built most of mine with the bottom of the center exhaust to be about an inch into the lid.

BTW, the lid needs to be as air tight as you can make it. All fittings need to be tight and sealed as well. The edges of the baffle need to be smooth to avoid interfering with the air flow. I found early on that 3/4" round dowels cut to length worked much better than square posts to hold the baffle to the lip. Every little bit improves performance.

Another site of great information is from http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm. If you don't find additional information on the cyclone principal here, well, quite simply put, "we all have a problem."

Questions, post them here and we all will try to be of assistance if possible. :biggrin:

 

[Fred]

Charles ... I just re-read your post and realized you are using the Harbor Freight DC.

I have their 2 HP which was on sale a few weeks back. I simply installed the Thien baffle in the bottom of the metal ring using the rim to mount it. Very simple installation. I used 3/4" MDF as the material and four or five 4" screws. Nothing was used to support the cutout section and the solid part starts right at the lower edge of the input opening.

Works great!

 

[Heck]

I am looking to build a The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid
w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle
Does anyone have any experience using one or both of this product?

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25225

Is this use-able for the inlet side?

Care to share your ideas?

 

[Heck]

Fred,
Do you have a picture of your modification of the HF 2 HP DC?

 

[RHunter]

Fred,

Ditto!

I have been look at the Thien Separator for months too- but am challenged when it comes to space.

If you "built" your right into the ring housing- that is the way to go!!!

To quote a Woodnet rule - No pix...didn't happen! :wink:

Thx!

-DD

 

[Fred]

No pictures as camera is still in Iraq "someplace" and is doing it's thing for a while longer.

It is a very simple improvement to do. Just follow Phil Thien's description of how he made his baffle. Be sure to leave at least an inch below the Input opening for 'wrap-around' debris to make a second trip. Oh yea, Mr. Thien's pictures are far more descriptive that mine could be as mind is assembled and hard to "see" right now.

On the HF metal ring is a rolled over bottom rim. Mount the baffle cut to fit the inside. Locate the completely round part of the INPUT opening and mount the baffle so that the solid outer portion is starting right below the opening. This leaves about 120 degrees of solid surface for the debris to start sliding on, slowing down, slamming up to the metal side, and falling through the 240 degrees opening back to the input rear portion of the opening. Looks like a weird shaped keyhole and exactly like Phil Thien's photographs. :biggrin:

As for the 'stuff' offered by Rockler in the above posting by Heck ... that is sure a bunch to pay for components when you add on shipping and such. Using the Thien baffle, you only need one 90 degree elbow and two top pieces to accept the pipe you intend on using. Save $5 or so and just get what you need. Take the $5 to the hardware store and get the screws and stuff.

Look at http://www.ptreeusa.com/dust_list.htm and read down to about the middle of the page for the elbow, one properly sized hose connector for the center return, and the two top connectors you will need. I always check with this vendor first for plastic 'stuff' as a lot of the bigger stores, mainly WC, Rockler, and Highland Hardware all get their plastic stuff from them. Usually they don't even take the green parts label used by PTreeusa off. Actually the center return might work just as well if no center drop down is used. That's another savings, but I would try it both ways just to test what your results are. All this depends on air volumn anyways.

Questions on results ... just post here again! Remember this is not a rocket exhaust you are making and it is just like the pictures show it to be. Adding one of the complete assembleys to a preseparator is the best way to travel ... but if space is not available try adding just the baffle plate to the DC itself.

 

[Heck]

Fred,
Please excuse me, but before I destroy my DC.
http://www.wynnenv.com/9e300bl_conversion.htm

Where they are installing the MDF, is this where your telling me to install the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle?

Excuse me but as a newbie, i know it's old hat to you.
Thank you for your help and time.

 

[ctubbs]

The Thien cyclone goes just before the DC.
Charles

 

[Polarys425]

Charles ... I just re-read your post and realized you are using the Harbor Freight DC.

I have their 2 HP which was on sale a few weeks back. I simply installed the Thien baffle in the bottom of the metal ring using the rim to mount it. Very simple installation. I used 3/4" MDF as the material and four or five 4" screws. Nothing was used to support the cutout section and the solid part starts right at the lower edge of the input opening.

Works great!

Its on sale now, and back in stock. They sent me a 20% code in my email. Made it $151.99 + tax and the 14.95 additional shipping charge, when i ordered the standard shipping charge was free for orders over $130. My total was $174.54 i think. Fedex will be dropping it off today (Monday), if im home in time, unless they leave it, but i doubt they will.

 

[Fred]

Bill ... Sorry for the late reply.

I hope you don't have your dust collector put together yet, as adding the Thien baffle plate is much easier if it is unassembled.

Looking at the Wynn site you refer to, he is installing the mounting plate for a Wynn canister filter. I used the same method of making a filter mounting plate, BUT I made my plate to fit over the top of the green metal ring. I just routed a shallow grove in the 3/4" MDF the same width as the rolled over green metal rim and the same diameter of the green metal ring. Allow a little bigger routed opening to make things easier. Then I sealed this plate to the green metal ring. No screws, just a thin bead of silicone sealant inside the routed grove and then press fit over the green metal rim. Leave the thing alone for a bit and let the silicone cure before proceeding.

Looking at the green metal device in the first of the Wynn site's pictures, you can see the top of the cone shaped inner deflector. Inside and under this deflector is where the Thien baffle is mounted. The Thien baffle IS inside the diameter of the metal device as this allows the mounting of the plastic collection bag as would be normal. The Thien baffle IS NOT touching the bottom of the cone deflector opening, but is better than an inch or so below which allows the exhaust air to escape.

Just be sure the solid section of the baffle is under the hose intake opening of the dust collector. Refer to the Wynn pictures again and in the one where he is standing behind the dust collector you can see where the 4" hose is attached. Mount the Thien baffle inside with the solid piece right below this opening. I have mine mounted with the solid section starting under the beginning of the opening as viewed from the inside of the metal ring and the cutout opening of the baffle starting a little past where the support leg of the dust collector is attached.

Having re-read my ramblings I have this brain attack suddenly and wanted to offer it up to you ....
Make life easier ... lay the Thien baffle down on a table top near the edge and then place the green metal device over it. Turn and position the green metal device so that the intake opening is directly over the solid section of the baffle. Reach through the opening of the cone deflector and keep the baffle plate in place as you drill the necessary holes and screw it in place.

Then proceed with the assembly of the dust collector as per the Wynn site photographs. Be careful when moving the entire thing as MDF (if that is what you are using) can crack and come apart. I used the longest screws I had on had and believe they were at least 3 1/2" to 4" long. Make sure they go in straight and do not come out the top or bottom of the baffle plate. Turbulence is our enemy!

Clear as mud right. More questions ... post them here and we'll see where it goes from here.

This Thien baffle plate is completely different from the Cyclone Collection device originally designed by Bill Pentz. The Thien baffle simply helps to create a 'cyclone' effect inside many barrels, trash can, etc. that a lot of folks use for dust collection.

Without the Thien baffle in place the air blasts into the collection bag and just blows where it wants to, thus keeping a dust cloud inside until it is blown up and into the filter material. The Thien baffle works to keep the filter material cleaner than normal and therefore one hopefully doesn't have to clean the filter as often. I have found that my cannister filter is 90-95% cleaner using the baffle plate and am quite satisfied with the alteration. Using a pre-separator also is advised, but that is a different discussion topic.

 

[Crayman]

I also have the 2 hp Harbor Freight, these links were the basis of my modification. I did mine inside, but I used Wynn's 35A filter and love the setup. can see the dust cyclone in the clear bag. see the 2 links below for the pictures.

http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.0


http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=71.0

 

[Heck]

Thank you, all on this thread for I now understand what I need to do for my health!
I am grateful for the help, and hopefully one day I will pay it forward!

 

[ctubbs]

I went back to Phil's site and had another look at his lid. My setup is somewhat different. The inlet to the can is on the side, under the baffle, not in the lid. This keeps the incoming stream separate from the outlet as the baffle is between the inlet and outlet. The tapered baffle helps to limit the pass through of the material. I have nothing going out the outlet except very fine particles unless the can gets very full. Phil's separator is very well calculated and thought out. Mine is intuitive and not calculated at all. But it woes work. The better separated the inlet and outlet, then it stands to reason that the better the stream will be separated. For me, it works. Your millage may vary. To see my can and system check out http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=73644. Thanks for all the comments.
Charles