Help with Bowl/Platter Turning

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EricRN

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May 16, 2019
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Hi all,

I'm thinking about venturing into bowl and platter turning. Until now, I've only done spindle turning--obviously, pens, and some other spindle items. The full extent of my face-turning is making small finials for caps and other things.

I don't have any bowl gouges or scrapers; I've got spindle gouges, a skew, and a set of carbide tools. I will get some eventually, but want to dip my toe in the pool of bowl turning first. Here's my question--Is it safe/acceptable to use my carbide turning tools on the bowl until I get my bowl gauges? I'd assume so, given that the carbide tools are essentially a scraper anyway. But if there are serious safety issues (as there would be trying to use a spindle gouge or a roughing gouge), could someone let me know so I don't do something dumb!

Thanks.
 
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It will just likely take a little longer to hollow the inside of the bowl with the carbide, but as SteveJ said, there are a ton of Youtube videos where the turners use only a carbide... do not use the skew on your bowls... lots of problems there.
 

monophoto

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Eric

The key distinction is the direction of the grain as the blank rotates. In 'spindle' turning, the grain is parallel to the axis of rotation, while in 'bowl' turning, the grain is perpendicular to that axis. The consequence of this distinction is that in 'bowl' turning, the tool can engage with the ends of the grain at two points during each rotation of the workpiece, and the concern is for what happens when that occurs.

Basically, there are two possible concerns - one is very serious, and the other is merely a nuisance. The nuisance is that as the workpiece rotates, the ends of the grain engage with the tool in a way that causes the grain to be torn. As a result, there will be two areas on the circumference of the workpiece that will be rough and require a lot of sanding. Proper tool handling goes a long way to minimizing this problem - which is to say that you get better with practice.

The other concern is that when the edge of the tool interacts with the ends of the grain (twice per revolution of the workpiece), there is an increased risk of a catch. When you get a catch, that imposes a downward force on the tip of the tool. With the tool against the toolrest, that downward force on the tip results in an upward force on the handle of the tool. So this leads to two conclusions:
1. It is helpful, when doing 'bowl' turning, to use tools with longer handles since a longer handle allows you to resist that force with less stress on your hand and arm.
2. It is safer to use tools that have more robust shanks that can more easily withstand that momentary stress.

That's the general theory. Reducing this to practice results in these guidelines:
  • Take your time and avoid aggressive cuts that are more likely to cause catches.
  • When initially roughing out a blank, it is easier and safer to cut from the face of the blank out to the circumference. Trying to cut straight across the circumference will always be more difficult, and will entail a greater risk of either a catch, or a shard of wood flying off the workpiece. And cutting from the face out to the circumference also minimizes grain tearing.
  • Never use a tool with a narrow, weak shank. To be specific, the shank on most 'spindle roughing gouges' narrows at the point where it enters the handle, and should never be used in 'bowl' turning. If you get an end-grain catch with a spindle roughing gouge, the shank can break at the narrow point causing the tool to fly up into your face.
  • A spindle gouge with a shank having a uniform cross section across its length can be used in 'bowl' turning. But a bowl gouge generally has a more robust shank compared with a spindle gouge with the same edge, and therefore is easier to use.
  • Any scraper can be used provided the shank has a uniform cross section and the edge approaches the workpiece at a negative angle.
  • Likewise, carbide tools also can be used in 'bowl' turning provided the shank has a uniform cross section along its entire length. However, it is prudent to tilt the cutter so that it approaches the workpiece at an angle - that will result in a smoother surface and less torn grain.
  • A skew chisel is not especially useful in 'bowl' turning. Some people do use the tip of a skew to cut details on a bowl, and it is possible to use a skew as a 'negative rake scraper', but a 'planing cut' with a skew chisel won't work well on a bowl and is likely to result in a pretty dramatic catch.
  • Be prepared to do more sanding than you would do for a spindle project.. And using a coarser grade of abrasive may be necessary to smooth that torn end-grain.
 
Last edited:

its_virgil

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>As mentioned, youtube has countless videos on all aspects of turning.
>Locate a woodturning club in your area and join. Ask for help. Many clubs have a "play day" at regular intervals such as the first Saturday of each month. This would be a good place to learn. Go to woodturner.org, the AAW website, and locate a club close to you.

Do a good turn daily!
Don
 

crokett

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You can use carbide tools (or even an HSS scraper) to turn a bowl. Just realize that you will likely be doing more sanding than you would if you had a sharp bowl gouge and were skilled. The skilled part is what I struggle with. The carbide tool will leave a rougher finish, especially on end grain. it is also slower than a bowl gouge.
 

EricRN

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Hi all,

I'm thinking about venturing into bowl and platter turning. Until now, I've only done spindle turning--obviously, pens, and some other spindle items. The full extent of my face-turning is making small finials for caps and other things.

I don't have any bowl gouges or scrapers; I've got spindle gouges, a skew, and a set of carbide tools. I will get some eventually, but want to dip my toe in the pool of bowl turning first. Here's my question--Is it safe/acceptable to use my carbide turning tools on the bowl until I get my bowl gauges? I'd assume so, given that the carbide tools are essentially a scraper anyway. But if there are serious safety issues (as there would be trying to use a spindle gouge or a roughing gouge), could someone let me know so I don't do something dumb!

Thanks.
This is coming along well I think.
 

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penicillin

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You are not alone. Many people turn bowls using carbide tools. As you have seen, it will work fine. As others have pointed out, you can achieve better results with a high speed steel bowl gouge, but many beginners start out with carbide. The bowl turning classes for beginners at our local woodworking stores have the students use carbide tools.

Be aware that turning bowls is much more dangerous than turning pens. Be sure to study up on faceplate turning safety in general and bowl turning safety in particular.

-> If you are not using a faceshield, then upgrade to a full faceshield now before turning any more on bowls, etc. A faceshield for bowl turning is not optional. Safety glasses alone are NOT sufficient with bowls.
 

howsitwork

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You are not alone. Many people turn bowls using carbide tools. As you have seen, it will work fine. As others have pointed out, you can achieve better results with a high speed steel bowl gouge, but many beginners start out with carbide. The bowl turning classes for beginners at our local woodworking stores have the students use carbide tools.

Be aware that turning bowls is much more dangerous than turning pens. Be sure to study up on faceplate turning safety in general and bowl turning safety in particular.

-> If you are not using a faceshield, then upgrade to a full faceshield now before turning any more on bowls, etc. A faceshield for bowl turning is not optional. Safety glasses alone are NOT sufficient with bowls.
this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE . A face shield is to be highly recommended.

For small platters (4" say ) etc at lower speeds glasses may suffice but for bowls of any larger size you owe it to your health to be safe. Even better are the air helmet type which protect your lungs from the dust as well
 

greenacres2

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this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE . A face shield is to be highly recommended.

For small platters (4" say ) etc at lower speeds glasses may suffice but for bowls of any larger size you owe it to your health to be safe. Even better are the air helmet type which protect your lungs from the dust as well
My first bowl attempt had a 4" square chunk bounce off my face shield. Switched to a Uvex Bionic shield for the next try…many months later! If that would have been just glasses, I'd have at least had stitches, if not some dental work. Lessons learned that day.
Earl
 

penicillin

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It doesn't seem appropriate to give a "Like" for an avoidable, potentially serious injury such as Chuck's lucky post #13 just above this one.

At the same time, I want to express my appreciation to @TellicoTurning for sharing a great lesson. That was well taught indeed! Thanks!

Adding my own experience, I had a Nova G3 chuck fly off my lathe once. I was working outside. The chuck flew up to the roofline, struck a fascia board at the edge of the roof about 10 feet above the ground, and landed on the grass near me. No harm, no foul ... and i was very very lucky not to be hit by the flying Nova G3 chuck.

-> I was sanding in reverse without the chuck's set screw in place. It was one of those "I never used the set screw before and nothing bad ever happened. Why did they include that set screw in the first place?" Now I know. It was one of those details I should have known and performed, just like changing the oil on a car or running backups for your computer. I bet that there is a clear warning written by lawyers in the fine print in the front pages of the G3 manual. Regardless of whether the fine print is there, I won't make that mistake again.
 
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As Penicillin said lesson learned... I don't turn on the lathe until the face shield in in place and I always step to the side until the blank is spinning properly... I've still had chunks from blanks that cracked or separated and flew off and have hit the face shield, but no more black eyes.

The picture above was result of using a homemade longworth chuck, spinning at 450 and taking the bottom off of the bowl... a light touch with a round nose scraper, a small catch and then "WHAM" (I think I know what it might feel like to be hit by Mike Tyson)

I've had chucks spin off the spindle that weren't set completely... that's fun too when you have a good sized bowl blank in the chuck and it comes spinning at you (NOT)... I don't have any of the Nova chucks, mine are all of the Barracuda variety from PSI and I make sure (most of the time) to insert a tommy bar in the right had side and set the chuck tight against the spindle's shoulder. Also when using a face plate, after threading it onto the spindle, I smack the top of the blank to make sure it's turned and set tight against the spindle shoulder.

Every precaution you can take will save you from a possible serious accident.
 

Monty

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Best piece of advice I ever received is to learn from other peoples mistakes, you don't have time to make them all yourself. It's also dangerous .
 

Woodchipper

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I put this over the lathe. In addition to Youtube videos, I recommend Lyle Jamieson's video on bowl turning. It's a total of four hours but worth it. I watch it an hour at a time.
 

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jrista

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I highly recommend watching Jimmy Clewes' videos on turning platters:


The guy is a true wizard with wood, especially when it comes to platters.

Here are a couple of mine that I recently made, after watching this very video. Both grade AAA ripple figured maple, although just not as nice as the ones you see Jimmy usually turning:

Two Maple Ripple Figured Platters-1.jpg


Two Maple Ripple Figured Platters-2.jpg



I think I left too much rim, and not enough bowl...will try to fix that next time.
 
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