GluBoost - coat count, thickness?

[jrista]

Ok, finally delving into my exploration of GluBoost. This has been coming for a while...I have a hard time moving onto new things, while I still have remaining old finishes. I'm just about out of Mercury Flex, and my Pens Plus seems to have gone bad. So the time has come, and I'm exploring GluBoost now.

I'm liking what I've been seeing so far. Ironically, I started with a GB+Oil combination, which was interesting, not entirely successfull, but managed to salvage it and the final finish is brilliant! Loving it. Pens Plus can get VERY crystal clear if you apply it right, and the chatoyance of the final result is incredible. None of my CA finishes have quite done that. I think in part, its the oil in the wood fibers, that do it... Anyway, I think GluBoost meets my bar, and the chatoyance with this first trial was sublime.

I've done a couple with just pure GB, and its great, clear, but I'm not quite sure the chatoyance is at the same level. I need to do a bit more polishing first, so I'm not drawing any final conclusions yet. I plan to try GB+BLO (used walnut oil before, and it didn't crosslink properly with the CA, remained wet even after more than 12 hours drying), and am even going to give GB+Danish a try (that includes varnish, so, I guess we'll see what happens...its mostly just an experiment, but I'm quite curious, as Danish Natural adds less yellowing than BLO.)

The one thing I have been having trouble with, is how much to over-turn the blank before applying the GluBoost finish. So far, I seem to be overturning far too much. I'm used to StickFast and Mercury, which seem to build up a lot faster than I am seeing with GluBoost. I haven't actually done a CA finish in about a year or so, so maybe I've forgotten my technique? Or does GluBoost just not build up the same as other CA glues?

Anyway, main question is: How much do you overturn to allow for GB coat buildup? How many coats are necessary to get a good result (after sanding and polishing as well) with GB? How thick should a GB finish end up being?

Thickness wise, I've been trying to gauge that, and even after a couple coats of thin to penetrate the wood fibers, and then 5-7 coats of the normal GB finish (is that "medium"?), it still seems to be paper thin? Is that normal? This definitely seems different than other CA finishes. It seems to be fluid and spreadable right up to the point where it suddenly is not, and the moment it hardens seems to happen suddenly (with Mercury it seems to progress more slowly), so maybe I'm just not getting enough CA actually on my blanks?

I have been using paper towel to apply so far. I'm thinking that might not be the best applicator now. So I guess I'm also wondering, what is the best applicator you GluBoost fans have found to apply it to your blanks?

 

[Roly]

I use 2/3 coats of thin for penetration then 3/4 coats of Glu Boost pro formula and finish off with 6 or more coats of thin. It does not appear to build up too much and I give a roll over sand with 500 wet and dry to get rid of the sharp edges after coating the end grain. With this I turn down to the required measured diameter of the hardware and find very little overhang. Normal sanding through the grades of micromesh gives a lovely clear finish that appears durable. I apply using soft kitchen towel and my everyday pen is not showing very much wear and tear after 2 years plus in the pocket and no great noticeable discoloration.

 

[mg_dreyer]

Here is my technique.

GluBoost Video


Basically I use 2 coats of blue (medium) as a filler. It will seal the wood and act as a filler all in one. You do need to use the accelerator (people will say you don't - you do). Then 2 to 3 coats of orange and you are good to go.

I have been using the product for years and I find it the most consistent finish for pens.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[leehljp]

Anyway, main question is: How much do you overturn to allow for GB coat buildup?

Over-turning: When I run out of my CA, which will be soon, I will use GluBoost. For CA, I overturn about .005", but occasionally misjudge and overturn to about .007 or .008"

BTW, most HF calipers will only measure .005 at best. It takes a somewhat more expensive set of calipers (+$60 or more) to really measure .001" at minimum.

To be honest, I don't see this question very often and I don't think most people ever think about it. They probably don't think of buildup as a real thickness to be dealt with. But my experience is at a certain point, the extra thickness protects much better in the long run.

2 or 3 or 4 coats will vary greatly in depth from person to person and from thick to thin finish. That is why I measure my layers. Knowing the thickness should not be a guessing game in higher quality pens.

 

[jrista]

Here is my technique.

GluBoost Video


Basically I use 2 coats of blue (medium) as a filler. It will seal the wood and act as a filler all in one. You do need to use the accelerator (people will say you don't - you do). Then 2 to 3 coats of orange and you are good to go.

I have been using the product for years and I find it the most consistent finish for pens.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for the video, Mark. I do use the accelerator. Reading the GluBoost site and docs, they say to use it, so I have been.

One thing I have noted...the accelerator says it is non blushing, and so far, I have not seen any blush. HOWEVER...I do seem to be getting, as best I can tell, a bit of "wrinkle"? When I first apply a thin layer of the glue on top of another layer, its super clear, very slight ripple usually that you can see subtly in the shine line. Then I'll hit it with a very minimal amount of GB accelerator, just a momentary blast while the blank is turning. A few moments later...a fine wrinkle occurs in the glue surface. From a distance, the shine line goes from super sharp and slightly rippled, to fat and dull. Very close inspection indicates the glue surface has wrinkled. Its fine, and it all sands out just fine, and I'm getting crystal clear results in the end...

Still, is wrinkling like that normal? The bottle says it maintains a crystal clear finish.

 

[jrista]

Here is my technique.

GluBoost Video

Let me know your thoughts.

So...this is definitely different than I've been doing. I am going to give your technique to a T a try here in a few minutes. I've been using my old application method, which was to apply a drop to the paper towel, put that under the blank, then apply a little more from the bottle directly to the blank as I move back and forth across the blank.

I wonder how your technique will go. It does NOT take long, before the glue starts grabbing at my applicator (whatever material, I've used a few different kinds of paper towel including blue, as well as a popsicle stick.) I am wondering if there is a humidity factor... Normally, its very dry here in Colorado. This year, we have had a TON of rain (to the point where we are officially out of drought conditions), and the humidity has been high. The last two days, its been raining, and humidity will top 80% at times. I wonder if that is reducing my working time with GB?

You seem to have a lot of working time as you wipe it onto your blanks... I like your approach, as it seems to be highly efficient. I've been concerned about efficiency using my current approach, which is a bit wasteful. So I am really hoping I'll be able to apply it like you do, without having to worry about getting paper towel fibers in my finish.

I'll be headed back out there in a little bit here, and will report back on my results.

 

[jrista]

@mg_dreyer Hi Mark!

Well, just gave your technique a try... I didn't get past the second coat of the blue. I don't know if this is environmental, bad glue batch/expired glue, or technique... However I don't seem to have anywhere remotely close to the open time you do with GB?

I think I get maybe 3-5 seconds to apply to the blank. By 5 seconds for sure, its getting sticky, few more seconds and its ripping fibers out of the Scott's blue paper towel. Maybe this is a part of my general struggles with CA? I have NO open time. When I first started experimenting with CA years ago, I came across a video where the guy actually applied more glue to the blank while it was spinning, with his applicator underneath the blank. I started doing that, and I was able to get a coat of the glue on the blank without it ripping fibers out of the applicator, or bonding the applicator to the blank.

It is an extremely wasteful method, though, and with the cost of GB, I am hoping to find a more efficient way... That said, with only about 3-5 seconds to apply, I can only get a part of the blank coated, and very poorly coated at that (certainly not smooth, clean and shiny) before I can't rub the glue into the blank anymore.

Is this normal, or is this something wrong with the glue? These were new bottles, bought at Rockler. I didn't open them until a few days ago. So they haven't been open long. They are always capped when no longer used. I use the accelerator, but only after a coat is applied. It seemed like you had tens of seconds of open working time in your video, to work the blue (thicker) glue into the blank and really FILL and finish...

I've had to sand back these first couple of coats, to get rid of all the junk in them, and the really janky surface. I just looked at the amount of glue I have left in the bottle, and its less than 2/3rds, and I've finished four, going on five blanks so far. Not even full pens, just half the pair of segments for each pen. So, the glue has NOT been going very far for me, which is going to be a cost sink.

Really hoping I'm doing something wrong, or something. Sadly, my experiences with other CA glues hasn't really been much better...so maybe it is an environmental factor that is screwing with my ability to use CA glue properly. I live at around 6000 feet above sea level here in Colorado. I wonder if the thinner air is a factor too? In the past, we've had extremely dry air. Now we have high humidity air. I'm not sure if humidity has played much of a role in my CA finishing problems, but maybe it is, and I'm just not remembering well.


Anyway....3, maybe 5 seconds. That seems to be all I've got once I put a drop of glue on a blue paper towel. I tried some other paper towels, not sure if that helped or hurt, but it didn't seem to change the timing much. I may...try to glue some wax paper to a popsicle stick, and see if that gives me any more open time.


Curious how other people apply. I am going to see if I can find some of this craft foam board stuff. I have some other materials as well. I clearly need something that isn't going to bond with or accelerate the curing of the glue itself. Ironically, I've wanted more humidity in my shop, as it is usually bone dry (10-16% humidity) and that makes dust float in the air forever. Higher humidity has lead to a cleaner shop and cleaner air... Maybe it has also lead to poorer CA finish performance as well.

 

[jrista]

Well, its definitely 3 seconds. After putting a drop of blue GB on an applicator, once I apply to the wood (which I'm doing as quickly as I can), I seem to have about 3 seconds before it gums up and is no longer finish-worthy. I've been getting about 1/4 to 1/3 of the blank coated, but mostly in the middle area...the ends are usually not coated well. The finish is lumpy, shiny, but not clear, and there is practically no chatoyancy in the wood. :\

 

[jrista]

Well, been doing the research rounds. I love how diverse this community is. Everyone has their technique. I found a video from @ed4copies with his technique:

Sharing here in case anyone else has trouble with GB.

I've actually generally been using Ed's approach, although I was adding some GB to the paper towel first. I'm going to just follow his approach in the above video directly, and see how it goes. Maybe I can be a bit more efficient with his approach.

So far, I have sanded back this particular blank about half a dozen times, trying to use the lathe-off wipe-on approach. Personally, I would much prefer to do that, and I may be able to get some additional help from Mark later on here to see if I can get his approach working. The approach I have been using is very quickly burning through this bottle of GB, so it is not very efficient at all.

Anyway, getting back to it, going to see if I can improve my efficiency here before the next set of pens I have to craft for a customer.

 

[Todd in PA]

Use a craft foam applicator.
No fibers.
No sticking.
No wasted ca.

 

[jrista]

Well, color me baffled. And loss for loss.

In lieu of craft foam, which...I am not entirely sure I know what it is, and the local walmart (just a few minutes away, and the only place still open that might have had any) did not seem to have what I presumed it was (some kind of solid foam core, with a veneer of some kind of plastic or maybe cardstock surface?)...I contact-cemented a strip of wax paper to one of these fat popsicle sticks I have.

Well, that worked like a charm. Well, almost...had a bit of trouble getting glue to contact around the curvature of the blank, probably because the popsicle stick was too wide, but it all went on clean, clear, with a pretty sharp shine line with just a couple of little ripples. I thought "Boom! Todd's a winner! That did it!"....

So, true to the instructions, after letting the blank spin for about a minute as I admired it... I gave it a quick blast of gluboost accelerator aaaaaand....a few seconds later, in about an instant, my real nice shine line and clear coat of finish, turned into this:

The Wrinkle. The finish was fine for a minute or so. I suspect it may well have hardened already before I applied the accelerator. Took about 2, 3 seconds after applying, to very quickly, probably as the accelerator finished evaporating, less than a second to go from real nice sharp shine line, to this. I maybe blasted the accelerator for about a second (not even, half a second), a quick swipe down the length of the blank while the lathe was on (and it was not spinning fast, it was fairly slow.)

Either...I am a baffoon and I am missing something obvious and making some dumb mistake here...
Or...there is some environmental factor, too much moisture in the air? I think my humidity is still over 70% (it just rained about a half hour ago)...
Or...maybe the batch of accelerator, or the glue itself, is bad?

Baffled.

 

[jrista]

Here is John U.'s video of his approach. His results are fast and amazing:

I see he did get a little bit of streaking in the end, but his steel wool blasted that right off, and the wet sanding took it to an exceptional shine.

Going to try this without the accelerator this time, see what happens...

 

[jrista]

I contacted GluBoost last night, and they responded this morning. They say it sounds like a humidity issue, which is kind of what I suspect myself. That said, they are going to check the lot numbers from my bottles and make sure they aren't expired or anything like that.

If it is indeed a humidity issue, not real sure what to do. Anyone else have high humidity and use GluBoost?

 

[Todd in PA]

.010" is the thickness of my Gluboost regimen. I overturn .010. I saw Hank say .005. I guess I like mine a little thicker for deep shine and protection. That and fear of sanding through.

I had tons of humidity issues prior to Gluboost. None since. The stuff is really forgiving.

Here's a 30 pack of craft foam for $6.

https://amzn.to/3suxa1K

I cut these into 2"x1" applicators. I use 2-3 per pen.

Maybe too much accelerator? I'm trying to think about things I might be doing which are non-obvious.

• I start with thin and wait a minute or so for it to sink in before applying a burst of accelerator.
• I do 2-3 more coats of thin, but no more accelerator. The reaction seems to chase up through the layers. Usually dry enough for the next layer in a minute or so. When I'm done with thin, I hit it with accelerator and move on to the blue.
• Again, I put on 5 or so coats of blue without more accelerator. I might give it a hit if it's taking too long to dry, but usually I don't need to.
• Then I topcoat a few layers of thin. I might denib before the topcoat if I have any ridges.
• The main issue I have with the craft foam is using too much ca, and pushing too much into the plastic bushings. Removal can be an issue if you do that. It only takes a couple drops because the foam isn't absorbing like towels.
• Oh, and I apply to the foam, not the blank.

 

[Todd in PA]

Oh, and I've accidentally overturned as much as .020". I just use 10 layers of blue to build it back up and measure with calipers to know when to stop.

 

[jrista]

@Todd in PA Thanks for the insights! Much appreciated.

I did finally find some "hobby foam" at walmart. They are a few millimeters thick, closed cell. Colored...sadly no white. But I think this is the stuff everyone has been talking about. I've cut some small strips, and am going to give this a try.

Very interesting about that first blast of accelerator working all the way through the coats. That is very interesting...

In my case, I am pretty darn sure I'm not using too much accelerator. I am honestly concerned I'm not getting enough on... It is at most a half-second burst, and I'm probably 10+ inches away. By the time it reaches the blank it is pretty well dispersed. The interesting thing to me, is this stuff seems to disperse upwards...my past experience with accelerators (most recently, Mercury's sprits bottle stuff), is that it definitely falls down. This stiff seems lighter than air, or maybe its hot and rising that way? In any case, this stuff seems to float. So I've actually had to point it just a bit below the blank, so that by the time it reaches the blank, its actually hitting it.

Anyway...if it aint humidity, I don't know what's causing "The Wrinkle" ... It happens on my first coat. Applicator sits on it for about 2-3 seconds, then zwop...wrinkled.

I have a decent second coat on that particular blank now, which I applied with my makeshift popsicle stick+wax paper applicator. The craft foam though, will be nice, as it is flexible and will conform to the shape of the blank. Going to go give this a try right now. Hopefully it goes well!

 

[Mike]

Did you try it with the BLO? I use medium Starbond and BLO and have great results. I do not use accelerator.
I follow Don Ward's method. Not sure it works with Glu Boost, but seems like it would be worth a try.
I live in Albuquerque and it is not usually humid here.

 

[jrista]

I haven't tried combining with BLO yet. That is next up.

I did try to use this foam... It looks like closed cell foam (in fact, it looks exactly like the product Todd linked, just larger sheets), but, I am honestly not sure it is. It seems pretty dense...but, the moment I touch the foam to the blank, the CA seems to pretty much vanish, and the blank starts to grab the foam. I don't know if I'm just not using enough (just a drop, as mentioned before), or if it is indeed disappearing into the foam. In any case...I used a rather liberal amount, and was able to get my third coat clear. I haven't used the accelerator, but I'm pretty sure its not dry yet...afraid to touch it, but it just seems like the surface droops a bit when I stop the lathe.

I'm kind of bummed. Heard so much about GluBoost being the end-all, be-all of CA glues, and that no one ever has any problems... Not sure why I seem to be having every problem under the sun with it.

Anyway...not real sure where to find this craft foam. The foam I have I'm pretty sure is going to be useless. Was only 5 bucks...but not real sure what I'm gonna do with it all (these were like 11x17" sheets of the stuff, and I have about a dozen of them.

 

[jrista]

Well, I definitely have a very, very serious problem. It took minutes for this coat of GluBoost (blue) to dry without accelerator. It is both wrinkled, and demonstrates blushing.

I thought GB was supposed to be immune to this! Humidity right now is middle ground, not particularly high (sun finally came out and the storm from yesterday finally seems to be moving on), but not low either. I thought GB was supposed to never blush!!

 

[jrista]

I am honestly wondering what this is.. Is that blush? Or...is that something else? It looks almost like some kind of crystalline formation in the CA... ON, rather... Humidity right now is 43%...

 

[Mike]

Are you putting 1 drop of the thin Glu Boost on the foam? I have not tried that.
I do it with my lathe on the slowest speed, about 550 RPM.
Dry sand with MM to 6000 or so.
1 or 2 drops BLO on the blank as it is spinning, move paper towel or foam back and forth across the blank until it is all covered.
Then immediately follow with 1 or 2 drops medium CA, same method, no accelerator needed.
Keep pressure on the blank and move back and forth for several seconds until it's not wet.
Repeat this cycle 6 or 8 times, no wait time in between.
Let it set 15 minutes or so and dry sand with MM to 12000.
I then buff and polish with Tripoli, White Diamond and Carnauba.
I think this is worth a try with the Glu Boost instead of Starbond.
I live in Albuquerque, probably similar humidity, depending where you live in Colorado.

Here are a couple of finished pens.
Photography is terrible, used my phone in the shop. Lighting is nice for working out there, but a little harsh for pics.
I did not buff them with a cloth or anything, just took them out of the tube I store them in and took pics.
Hope this helps.

 

[jrista]

Are you putting 1 drop of the thin Glu Boost on the foam? I have not tried that.
I do it with my lathe on the slowest speed, about 550 RPM.
Dry sand with MM to 6000 or so.
1 or 2 drops BLO on the blank as it is spinning, move paper towel or foam back and forth across the blank until it is all covered.
Then immediately follow with 1 or 2 drops medium CA, same method, no accelerator needed.
Keep pressure on the blank and move back and forth for several seconds until it's not wet.
Repeat this cycle 6 or 8 times, no wait time in between.
Let it set 15 minutes or so and dry sand with MM to 12000.
I then buff and polish with Tripoli, White Diamond and Carnauba.
I think this is worth a try with the Glu Boost instead of Starbond.
I live in Albuquerque, probably similar humidity, depending where you live in Colorado.

Here are a couple of finished pens.
Photography is terrible, used my phone in the shop. Lighting is nice for working out there, but a little harsh for pics.
I did not buff them with a cloth or anything, just took them out of the tube I store them in and took pics.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tips.

So, throughout these trials, I've used many different application techniques. Tried putting a drop of GB on a folded paper towel applicator. Tried using a folded paper towel applicator and putting GB directly on the blank (thin little stream as I move along the blank). I've tried putting a drop of glue on a foam applicator. I've tried a thin line of glue on a foam applicator. I've tried a foam applicator while putting a thin stream of glue on the blank while its turning, same as with the paper towel.

The only time I received these white streaks, was with the foam. So, this foam, which I think is the wrong stuff anyway (it seems to very rapidly absorb the glue, so must be open cell foam), is out. Not going to use it again. I'm currently back to a folded paper towel, putting the glue on the blank.

I have thus far been trying with peruvian walnut. Trying with some just-rounded blanks of flame box elder now, just to see if it is somehow a particular wood issue? I started with thin (orange). Took three coats of thin to stop soaking into the wood. I put on a coat of the blue, and that coat seems to have wrinkled. I applied one very short blast of GluDry on thin coat #2, from about 15 inches away (recommended by the GluBoost team). I couldn't tell if that caused wrinkle, as most of that coat had soaked into the wood as well. I have not used another blast of gludry yet. I've put on two more coats of blue. This stuff gets sticky and grabby VERY fast, and seems to be drying wrinkled as well.

Humidity is now 42%. Temp is up to 80F.

I'll try with some BLO next time. See if that works any better.

 

[jrista]

I then buff and polish with Tripoli, White Diamond and Carnauba.

FWIW, I would skip the carnauba. I've used carnauba on CA glues in the past, and it always reduces the shine to a sheen. Carnauba is a natural crystal wax, and they tend not to be particularly clear. I can see in your photos the shine looks a bit like a satin sheen.

For maximum crystal clear clarity, I'd only do the buffing with actual buffing compounds, and leave the wax off. I think you'll get a better result that way. So far, I have four finished blanks with GluBoost here. Some of them have taken a ton of effort to get the glue applied and sanded down, but in the end with fine grained sanding to 1 micron grit, then polishing (so far I've polished just with Meguiars, but I have some blue rouge compound that I want to buff with, to see if I can max out the shine. Just with the Meguiars, the shine is truly exceptional. I have little doubt that if I put carnauba on it, I'd lose the crystal clear brilliance of it all.

 

[Mike]

FWIW, I would skip the carnauba. I've used carnauba on CA glues in the past, and it always reduces the shine to a sheen. Carnauba is a natural crystal wax, and they tend not to be particularly clear. I can see in your photos the shine looks a bit like a satin sheen.

For maximum crystal clear clarity, I'd only do the buffing with actual buffing compounds, and leave the wax off. I think you'll get a better result that way. So far, I have four finished blanks with GluBoost here. Some of them have taken a ton of effort to get the glue applied and sanded down, but in the end with fine grained sanding to 1 micron grit, then polishing (so far I've polished just with Meguiars, but I have some blue rouge compound that I want to buff with, to see if I can max out the shine. Just with the Meguiars, the shine is truly exceptional. I have little doubt that if I put carnauba on it, I'd lose the crystal clear brilliance of it all.

I will try using a wax other than the Carnauba. Will need another buffing wheel. I am using a home made shaft for my 3 buffing wheels. It is a little scary, I am afraid that if I forget to lower lathe speed to 550 RPM, it might fly off. Might order the Bealls shaft and one buffing wheel if they sell them separate. I am old and sometimes forget things, especially after a few hours in the shop.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike

 

[jrista]

I will try using a wax other than the Carnauba. Will need another buffing wheel. I am using a home made shaft for my 3 buffing wheels. It is a little scary, I am afraid that if I forget to lower lathe speed to 550 RPM, it might fly off. Might order the Bealls shaft and one buffing wheel if they sell them separate. I am old and sometimes forget things, especially after a few hours in the shop.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike

The Beall system is a kit, so you get the morse taper, mandrel, all the screw hardware to mount everything tight and secure, and three wheels. Its what I've been using for a couple of years now. For pens, I have actually just been using the white diamond, and then the blue rouge which is a very high grit "final polish". My blue rouge wheel is separate, and I bought a separate buffing shaft with a 1" x 8tpi thread on it. The blue rouge is great for that final pass, and gives the clearest, glasslike shiny surface you could hope for.

FWIW, Beall closed their doors in December. That said Lee Valley bought a bunch of their stuff, which is mostly the buffing system and a few other things. So if you check their site, they have a Beall section, and they DO have buffing wheels there.

 

[jrista]

Well, so far, better with the flame boxelder, than with the perivian walnut... That said, its not perfect. Still seem to have only 3-4 seconds to spread the glue out before it gums up and sticks. I used paper towel again...afraid to use the foam, I think its got some kind of residue on it, or maybe its outgassing something, that runed the last coat on the peruvian blank.

This is several coats of thin, with a very small blast of GluDry on the second thin coat. Then a few of the thicker stuff, with a very short blast of gludry on the last one. I am going to try putting on a few coats of thin on top of this...but, it wasn't entirely dry (touching the side edge on the left side, it was still tacky), so letting it dry more.

Its shinier, but, the left side shows problems as that was about 2-3 seconds in when it started to gum up. It has some wrinkle, but not as bad as I was getting with the peruvian walnut blanks. All of the blanks were cleaned with acetone, then turned on the lathe and let it spin with the dust collection going for a while to make sure they dried out as thoroughly as possible (I know the common DNA and Acetone you buy in metal cans are often softened a bit with some water).

Still hard to apply. I just don't have any working time. Moving as fast as my 40 year old hands can move, I get about two passes and then its gumming up (and if I don't take the applicator away right then, then it starts sticking and pulling fibers out in another second or two). It seems the thick, is more problematic than the thin. Thick really gums up. The thin seemed easier to apply... It certainy doesn't build up much, but it doesnt seem to go sticky as fast. I guess I have 5 seconds or maybe a little more. It does seem to wrinkle, but not quite to the same degree as the blue.

Anyway....back to the...journey...

 

[jrista]

For a small comparison of timing to tacky/sticky...Ed from Exotic Blanks is able to work the thin for at least 10 seconds, based on this:

I saw something similar in Mark Dreyer's video. Significantly greater open time than I seem capable of getting. Humidity is down to 38%...so, I'm starting to doubt that it is a humidity issue...

 

[jrista]

After putting on a couple of coats of thin, and a distant blast of gludry, and a couple of sequences of sanding and polishing, I ended up with this on the flame boxelder:

Sanding took a while, due to that bump on the left end where things kept sticking. Process was roughly as follows with times spent sanding for each grit:

Dry:

400: light, 1m (mostly in the bumpy left side)
600: 2m (+1m lighter around the left edge to really even out that bumpy area)

Wet:
600: 1m
800: 30s
1200: 10s
1500: 10s
2000: 30s
3000: 2m

After this, things looked pretty good, but satin, not shiny. I then used the last few grits of Zona paper, maybe 40 seconds on the lowest grit, then ~20 seconds each on the rest, and ended up with this:

Zona Paper is by far the best finishing sandpaper I've ever used... This stuff is magical.

Then finally, after some polishing (probably 3-4 minutes) with Meguiar's:

There are still some fine radial scratches that catch the right kind of light. So I will probably buff with blue rouge a bit later. But, this is a pretty good result. Just not quite happy with the application process, and how quickly sticky the darn glue gets when applying, and how it dries...I seem to get wrinkle every coat.

The imperfections of each layer may show through in the end. I'll have to see if I can get some photos, but, there are a smattering of tiny defects in this, that I thought were on the surface, but I simply cannot feel anything at surface level. On closer inspection, it looks like something a few layers in, and as such, unfixable. (At least, not without stripping and restarting.) I think its these little globs that form when the glue gets sticky and grabby. I don't think there are any fibers in there, just...janky globs of glue. Hopefully GluBoost Team will help me figure this out. I'm getting skeptical that its a humidity issue, unless this glue is particularly sensitive to humidity. I've been sitting around 40% most of the day...

Anyway, I don't know of the sheer mindblowing level of chatoyance is showing through in these photos or not, but...wow.... I'm definitely hooked on that! Box elder in general, and particularly this flam stuff, has great chatoyance in general, and man GB BRINGS IT OUT!

 

[jrista]

Are you putting 1 drop of the thin Glu Boost on the foam? I have not tried that.
I do it with my lathe on the slowest speed, about 550 RPM.
Dry sand with MM to 6000 or so.
1 or 2 drops BLO on the blank as it is spinning, move paper towel or foam back and forth across the blank until it is all covered.
Then immediately follow with 1 or 2 drops medium CA, same method, no accelerator needed.
Keep pressure on the blank and move back and forth for several seconds until it's not wet.
Repeat this cycle 6 or 8 times, no wait time in between.
Let it set 15 minutes or so and dry sand with MM to 12000.
I then buff and polish with Tripoli, White Diamond and Carnauba.
I think this is worth a try with the Glu Boost instead of Starbond.
I live in Albuquerque, probably similar humidity, depending where you live in Colorado.

Here are a couple of finished pens.
Photography is terrible, used my phone in the shop. Lighting is nice for working out there, but a little harsh for pics.
I did not buff them with a cloth or anything, just took them out of the tube I store them in and took pics.
Hope this helps.

Gave these instructions a try, Mike.

Sadly, no luck... The BLO and GB don't seem to be mixing, same experience as I had with the walnut oil and GB. The oil seems to stay wet, no matter how long I wait. The finish in the end is very satin, not shiny, basically no chatoyance to be seen. My humidity is around 35-38%, so not very high, about the same as it was yesterday. I don't know what to think...GluBoost is the most raved about CA I've seen on these forums. I don't know if I just got a bad batch of bottles, or if somehow my humidity is too high, or if I am just doing something wrong...

In any case. It may be a bust for me, which is really quite depressing... The finish is incredible when it is finally flat and clear. If I could just get decent coats to apply, without burning through an entire bottle in 10 pens, it would be ideal.

 

[Mike]

Not sure why that would be, I have put too much BLO a few times, but just keeping pressure on and moving back and forth, it dries up enough for the CA coat. The BLO is not completely dry when I put the CA on.
It only takes a couple of drops of BLO and same of CA, no more. Like from an eye dropper.
You are applying with lathe spinning, correct? Not too fast or it will sling the BLO and CA.
I have finished 10 or 15 pens and used the Starbond medium for other things and have only used half the 2 oz. bottle. Never tried Glu Boost. Maybe some else has experience with Glu Boost and BLO??
I wish you luck.
I would make a video but do not have the equipment or skills.

Mike

 

[jrista]

Not sure why that would be, I have put too much BLO a few times, but just keeping pressure on and moving back and forth, it dries up enough for the CA coat. The BLO is not completely dry when I put the CA on.
It only takes a couple of drops of BLO and same of CA, no more. Like from an eye dropper.
You are applying with lathe spinning, correct? Not too fast or it will sling the BLO and CA.
I have finished 10 or 15 pens and used the Starbond medium for other things and have only used half the 2 oz. bottle. Never tried Glu Boost. Maybe some else has experience with Glu Boost and BLO??
I wish you luck.
I would make a video but do not have the equipment or skills.

Mike

Aye, lathe is on and pinning when I apply. Its 1000 rpm, which with the small diameters of pens is not all that fast...but, if necessary, I could make it even slower by adjusting the belt to the next gear ratio. I applied BLO first, and used some pressure to get it into the wood and dryish. Couple drops of GB, and about 2-3 seconds in before I could even spread it out enough, it was sticky and streaking. I kept spreading, just to get it done, put a couple more drops of BLO on the applicator and spread that out. That smoothed out the streaking that was in the GB, and for a moment I ended up with a nice shine line, but then that dulled as I dried it out...the next coat of GB did the same thing, sticky and streaky. Put on a few coats, BLO then GB, spread it out. I left it to dry for a while. In the end, it was more of a satin finish, with a few spots that were shiny. I left it for a while, checked it maybe an hour later, and it was still wet, and totally dull with a satin sheen. Left it for a good while, couple of hours or so, still wet. I tried to buff it up and see if it would get shiny...stayed very dull and satin. If I wanted a satin finish, it seems like a very good way to get one, but, it really flattened out the wood, and it was pretty uninteresting, lacking any chatoyance at all that I could see. I put on a very thin coat of BLO, and I ended up with a really nice shine line while the lathe was spinning. But when I turned it off, I could tell that it was a broke finish, with spots of shine and spots of dull satin and a certain streakiness to a lot of it.

Either something is wrong with my GluBoost, or something is wrong with my hygrometer and my humidity is way higher than I think it is...

I ended up trying to coat the BLO+GB, after drying the blank as best I could with numerous passes with clean paper towel, and then with just some pure GB layers of thin, then a few more of thick. That seemed to work, although still got the heavily wrinkled look in each layer once it was dry. I built up what I thought was a decent amount of layering, but when trying to sand the wrinkles out, I ended up sanding through the solid GB layers into the BLO+GB layers at the peak of the curvature of the pen blank (had a very slight bulge). That was it for that blank (at least it was a test blank from a botched batch of pens!)

So, I'm going to be sticking to just pure GB for now, here... I don't know why it wrinkles, but this stuff must be EXCEPTIONALLY sensitive to humidity. It was not that humid today, my meter was reading 35-38% most of the day, then it jumped up to 42% when a thunderstorm rolled in a couple hours ago. The great irony is, Colorado is not a humid place! For a good decade, its usually been 10-20% humidity during this time of the year...which may well have been ideal for GluBoost?

The one thing that actually HAS been consistent, is the temperature. Its been high 70s to low 80s the entire time I've been playing with GluBoost. I'm wondering if the high temperature has something to do with my experience here... I am also wondering if there is just something about the environment of my garage that is causing problems, so I've opened up the garage door and back door, to try and just exchange the entire mass of air... I'm grasping at straws now...don't know what else to think. Would be real nice to have the ~10 seconds or so working time I've been seeing in people's youtube videos to spread this stuff around. I think it could be a highly efficient finish. The GluBoost team themselves said I should use less, but when I use less, it seems to gum up even faster, in some cases the instant I apply the applicator to the blank. It also seems particularly thick...even the thin, doesnt' feel very thin. It feels sticky even from the moment I apply it, and it doesn't move like the thin of other CA glues I've used... The thicker blue bottle of GB feels more like goo, than anything. I originally thought that was just the difference on CA formulas as GB is definitely different stuff, given its intentional design as a finish...but now that I've worked with it for a few days here...I'm beginning to wonder...

I may just pick up a couple of other bottles here, from a different source, and see if I have the same problems. This stuff feels so sticky, and very...rubbery when dry? Even when I really load on the GluDry, it still seems very rubbery, rather than hard. The last couple of blanks did not sand well, didn't feel normal. So, I am really starting to think something is wrong. Maybe something in my environment ruined the glue in these two bottles. Maybe the heat was too much. In any case, hopefully some new bottles will work better.

 

[Todd in PA]

Jon,
I really am perplexed about your problem, and want you to have the same success I have had with this product. I put a Gluboost finish on 15 pens this weekend and all were a shining success.

I'm quite convinced that you've got a bad bottle. Did you order it recently? Or is it old? Maybe if you ordered it recently it sat in a truck in the sun for three days at 140 degrees? I don't know if that's bad for Gluboost, but I know that's very bad for alumilite.

I have found Gluboost to be very easy to work with. You've done your homework reading and watching the how-to's. If it's not working like the videos, I'd blame the bottle.

 

[jrista]

Jon,
I really am perplexed about your problem, and want you to have the same success I have had with this product. I put a Gluboost finish on 15 pens this weekend and all were a shining success.

I'm quite convinced that you've got a bad bottle. Did you order it recently? Or is it old? Maybe if you ordered it recently it sat in a truck in the sun for three days at 140 degrees? I don't know if that's bad for Gluboost, but I know that's very bad for alumilite.

I have found Gluboost to be very easy to work with. You've done your homework reading and watching the how-to's. If it's not working like the videos, I'd blame the bottle.

I am not sure how old the bottles were. I bought em off the shelf at Rockler here in Denver. It is entirely possible they sat in a hot warehouse or on a hot truck. I sent the lot numbers to GluBoost, but haven't heard back about that yet. They think it is humidity, but I'm not convinced of that myself... The first day, humidity DID get high, and it gets up to around 80% "while" its raining, which it did. But the next day it was in the 40s, then high 30s, and today its been in the mid to high 30s... So, I have a hard, hard time believing that is too high? Right?

Since I've had the bottles, I guess a bit over a week now, they have been sitting in my garage. It has been up to 88F or so in there, and mostly in the 80s, so...maybe that's too hot? I didn't see a recommended temp to keep them at. I've brought them inside tonight. Ironically, I have an evaporative cooler for the garage...but that will just increase the humidity. So I don't really have a way to cool it down, except maybe just wait for it to drop in the evenings and then recycle the air by opening the garage, and finishing at night...

 

[Mike]

I live at similar altitude (my house is at 5290') and our weather is similar here in Albuquerque. Having never tried Glu Boost, I have no idea if it works with BLO. I don't have enough experience finishing pens to be of any other help. I will keep following this thread because i am very curious what will be the fix for you.
I agree that the leading suspect is bad Glu Boost.

Keep us updated and if I see or think of anything else I will let you know.

Mike

 

[jrista]

I ordered some additional bottles from Exotic Blanks. We'll see how it goes. If it is the bottles I have that are bad, I ordered some of the GluBoost pigments. I always need filler, particularly black, so I figure I can make filler with the bottles I have and finish with the new bottles.

 

[Todd in PA]

I just tried coloring a void this weekend. I used neon blue mica powder. I figured out that mixing a drop on wax paper and dripping colorized ca into the void with a toothpick works better than putting the mica in the void and dripping ca overtop (it mostly runs off rather than sinks in). You have to work quickly… maybe 30 seconds.

 

[leehljp]

I am not sure how old the bottles were. I bought em off the shelf at Rockler here in Denver. It is entirely possible they sat in a hot warehouse or on a hot truck. I sent the lot numbers to GluBoost, but haven't heard back about that yet. They think it is humidity, but I'm not convinced of that myself...

I have an evaporative cooler for the garage...but that will just increase the humidity. So I don't really have a way to cool it down, except maybe just wait for it to drop in the evenings and then recycle the air by opening the garage, and finishing at night...

Between those two statements, you have the potential for some humidity issues.

 

[jrista]

Between those two statements, you have the potential for some humidity issues.

I got a call from Ed @ Exotic Blanks earlier. I ordered some new bottles from him.

He mentioned that over 70% humidity, you'll likely have problems, over 75% and it won't work: Wait till the next day. Under 70% and you have a very good chance it will give you that crystal clear finish. He mentioned he works with it all from 40% to 70% humidity.

@leehljp FWIW, I HAVE an evaporative cooler in the garage, its the only cooler I have out there...I have not actually been running it, though. I was just saying above, I knew that using the evaporative cooler would cause issues. It hadn't been run in a while though...there was no need, with the high humidity thunderstorms rolling through one after another.

Day 1, we had a big thunderstorm roll through, and humidity got up to 80% for a while. That was maybe an hour or thereabouts. However, outside of that period of time, its been between 35% and 60%...usually somewhere between 35% and 45%. It is pretty dry here normally, so when storms blow out, humidity will usually plummet. We had a storm last night, humidity hit 60%. I wasn't doing anything with GluBoost at the time. It was 50% this morning when I took the trash out.

If what Ed says is correct, then, 35%, 45%, 50%, should be ok for GluBoost (and he got his information from some kind of webcast I think, where the GluBoost guys themselves presented).

I guess I'll see in a few days here, if the bottles I ordered from Ed work any better. If they do, then it was likely the bottles I picked up a week ago... If not...well....

 

[jrista]

I just tried coloring a void this weekend. I used neon blue mica powder. I figured out that mixing a drop on wax paper and dripping colorized ca into the void with a toothpick works better than putting the mica in the void and dripping ca overtop (it mostly runs off rather than sinks in). You have to work quickly… maybe 30 seconds.

Yeah, this is what I've done in the past. Most CA dry super fast...and some, the moment they hit mica powder they seem to cure (you can see that little waft of "smoke" come off it all.)

For mica-powder patches, I ended up switching to the JB Weld epoxy. It actually works pretty well with a lot of pigments. I picked up some normal painter's pigments and have been using that with JB Weld to create tinted filler, and I haven't had to worry about timing with that. I have also noticed, while the pure JB Weld will bubble with mixing, once I throw in painters pigment and mis it in, the bubbles vanish, and I get a really smooth substance. It cures a little rubbery, not quite as hard as the pure epoxy, but it is actually a pretty good filler. The key drawback is, you gotta wait for it to cure, so basically a day. I've mostly been using this as an engraving filler lately.

As I understand it, the GB pigments are designed to work with their glues, so your supposed to have more open time. The black stickfast I was using seems to have gone bad. I picked up three bottles, the second is a little more than half gone, and it seems to dry clearish now, rather than pitch black. I've found that the pigment seemed to precipitate out of the CA solution, and it no longer seems to mix. Further, it seems to take ages to dry now (used to dry pretty quickly a year ago), and doesn't respond well to accelerator (seems to blush very easily). So, was going to try the GB stuff. If these bottles of the glue I have now are indeed bad, then I can just try to make them my pigmented CA. I guess what I can try to do, is see if the standard painter's pigments will work. If they will, I can probably return (or sell to someone who wants them) the GB pigments.

 

[rixstix]

I got a call from Ed @ Exotic Blanks earlier. I ordered some new bottles from him.

He mentioned that over 70% humidity, you'll likely have problems, over 75% and it won't work: Wait till the next day. Under 70% and you have a very good chance it will give you that crystal clear finish. He mentioned he works with it all from 40% to 70% humidity.

...Well, I guess that explains why I get an orange peel finish. Humidity was so high last week that we had water running in the gutters & downspouts.