Gauging Interest in a Group Buy for a Custom Tap to Accommodate the Schmidt SKM-192 Click Mechanism

[hertzogcraig]

Not to change the subject from the taps, but I have a question for you guys that have used the 192. I know my newbness is going to show through here LOL, I am newish to pens and new to kitless, but I just received my first 192 yesterday because I wanted to check them out. After looking at this, I'm assuming you make a button for it? Does anyone have video or instructions on installing/using one of these? I've looked and can't find any decent explanation anywhere

 

[darrin1200]

I would be in for two

 

[NJturner]

Hi everyone!

Lately I've been steering my kitless pen making away from fountain pens and toward more user friendly click and twist style pens for uncapped ballpoints and rollerballs.

Twist style pens have been easy enough to develop because the transmissions are widely available and the threads are fairly standard. I want to take my pens to the next level and incorporate a click mechanism instead for the ultimate in convenience. It seems Schmidt makes the Cadillac of click mechanisms with their SKM-88 and 192 models. While their SKM-88 is easier to use, it doesn't fit the aesthetic I want in my pens. I know folks have been successful in turning away a lot of the bulky parts of it, but that's not something I'm too interested in doing. I'm also not sure about the ability to make a custom button either.

The SKM-192 appears to be the perfect option for the most flexibility, but unfortunately once Richard Greenwald closed up shop, it seems no one else has ever sold the tap to go along with the unique thread size of M4.2 x 0.35. I did run across this thread where someone suggested getting a #8-72 tap as a close fit, but as my luck would have it, not a single manufacturer makes those anymore either! I want my pens as repairable as possible (even by their owners), so gluing and pressing the mechanism into custom sleeves or couplings isn't super appealing to me.

All that being said, I requested a quote from Tapco for the proper tap size and got the following:

M4.2 x 0.35 6H HSS D3 4FL PLUG for brass

1 pc price = $202.40 each NET
2 pc price = $140.48 each NET
3 pc price = $101.76 each NET
6 pc price = $65.12 each NET
9 pc price = $48.32 each NET
12 pc price = $39.52 each NET
Manufacture time = 4-5 working days​

Can anyone smarter than me confirm these specifications in bold would be suitable? I once bought a bock nib housing tap from a group buy that *should* have been D20 and instead was D3, making the tapped threads too tight and therefore useless. I had no clue that was even a thing! Maybe I could send them a sample SKM-192 to confirm the specifications.

I know there may not be a ton of us out there, but if there are a few who are interested in resurrecting this tap from the grave, we could save a bunch. I'm in for at least two of them regardless of how many others are interested. I'm also willing to manage the whole process. I've reached out to @Monty, the Group Buy Coordinator to make sure I'm doing everything Kosher and this is the first step I've chosen to go before diving in.

Sorry for the wall of text! Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested. Thanks!

You go over the 9 price and I am in for 1. Thanks for doing this!

Kevin

 

[Dieseldoc]

That is the same way for me , correct tap for SKM192. I can [post drill size tomorrow for alum , brass.

Drill sized needed for SKM192 drill #25 3.80MM or .1495

See attached
Google SCHMIDT Technology Germany where to get Schmidt info, Down Load PDF file
Also where I have made up Retaining collar for custom pen making to hold the SKM192 collar ID 4.2x035 and OD 8mm Peter Greenwald where I got them but he out of business so I make up my one out of brass rod stock on. metal lathe .

 

[Todd in PA]

I might like one as well. Seems like it's not an available part and this is a once in a blue moon opportunity.

I suggest leaving the actual buy thread open for ten days or thereabouts so that no one misses out.

 

[hokie]

I might like one as well. Seems like it's not an available part and this is a once in a blue moon opportunity.

I suggest leaving the actual buy thread open for ten days or thereabouts so that no one misses out.

Agreed. I'll give it some time. In all my searches, I couldn't find that a group buy was done before, but someone in this thread made reference to one. Either way, I'll do my best to make sure as many people are aware and have time to act on it. This thread is part of that.

While I'm here... Just as an update, I am still drafting the content of the announcement post. There is a *lot* to account for and I am also still waiting on Tapco to respond to some of my questions surrounding Ti coating and specs.

 

[Penchant 4]

I will do two as long as the final number stays above 12. If 9 or more, I will go for one.

 

[Penchant 4]

To clarify-if > 5 but < 12, then just one.

Thanks.

 

[Jarod888]

Interested. Definitely. At least 2, maybe 3. However, I would also want the die to go along with it.

 

[hokie]

Interested. Definitely. At least 2, maybe 3. However, I would also want the die to go along with it.

Would you be willing to pay full price for a one-off die? Anyone else can certainly chime in if they would also be interested. I can ask for a quote for a matching 1" die (unless a different size is preferred).

 

[PatrickR]

If there is enough interest in a matching die to get a decent price I would also be interested. Possibly make it an option in the group buy?

 

[Dieseldoc]

I also would be interested in a die .if like Patrick R if price is good.

 

[d_bondi]

I am curious, what are you folks thinking you will be using the die for?

 

[hokie]

I am curious, what are you folks thinking you will be using the die for?

I was *just* about to ask the same thing! If you were to make a new sleeve section (which I have done), why not use a standard die size at that point?

 

[d_bondi]

I was *just* about to ask the same thing! If you were to make a new sleeve section (which I have done), why not use a standard die size at that point?

Agreed, 4.2mm is pretty small for sections, tenons, etc... which is why I'm curious.

 

[Jarod888]

I like having matching taps and dies.

 

[Jarod888]

Would you be willing to pay full price for a one-off die? Anyone else can certainly chime in if they would also be interested. I can ask for a quote for a matching 1" die (unless a different size is preferred).

I'm interested in the die even if I'm the only one. I'd probably order a couple anyway.

 

[PatrickR]

I like having matching taps and dies.

Exactly! Better to have and not need……

 

[hokie]

A little update…
Titanium coating is available in two varieties:
TIN = $2.53 per tap plus an additional 4-5 working days
TICN = $3.42 per tap, plus an additional 6-7 working days

No one needs to tell me whether they want it now, I am just sharing some options ahead of when the time comes. Pricing on a die will have to wait until after the weekend. In the meantime, I'll keep working on the announcement!

 

[mrburls]

Include me in for one also.

 

[Ironwood]

If you'll ship to Australia, I'll take one or maybe two.

 

[darrin1200]

I would also take a die.

 

[duncsuss]

Please tag me when you've set up the group buy - thanks!

 

[Pierre---]

I am in for one, if it works better than the one I got from Richard, which is useless.
Would it be a good idea to buy the correct bit also as a pack? Tolerance is not large...

 

[hokie]

A little update to those who were interested in dies. The quote from Tapco is as follows...

"We have never made this die, so there is a one-time net tooling charge.​

M4.2 X 0.35 HSS RND ADJ DIE 1" OD
1 pc price = $468.00 each NET
2 pc price = $362.70 each NET
3 pc price = $263.90 each NET
Manufacture time = 4 weeks
One time tooling charge = $165.00 NET"​

I, personally am decidedly not interested in purchasing any dies at those rates. Especially if I don't know if I'll ever even use one.

@Jarod888 , @PatrickR , @Dieseldoc , and @darrin1200 ... If you guys still want the matching die, I might suggest doing a mini group buy on the side. The manufacturing time is far longer than that of the taps as well. I didn't expect the die pricing to be anywhere near that amount, which is why I entertained the idea. So, I think I am going to make the executive decision to exclude dies from this group buy to keep things quicker and simpler.

I'm sorry to be a stick in the mud.

 

[darrin1200]

A little update to those who were interested in dies. The quote from Tapco is as follows...

"We have never made this die, so there is a one-time net tooling charge.
M4.2 X 0.35 HSS RND ADJ DIE 1" OD
1 pc price = $468.00 each NET
2 pc price = $362.70 each NET
3 pc price = $263.90 each NET
Manufacture time = 4 weeks
One time tooling charge = $165.00 NET"​

I, personally am decidedly not interested in purchasing any dies at those rates. Especially if I don't know if I'll ever even use one.

@Jarod888 , @PatrickR , @Dieseldoc , and @darrin1200 ... If you guys still want the matching die, I might suggest doing a mini group buy on the side. The manufacturing time is far longer than that of the taps as well. I didn't expect the die pricing to be anywhere near that amount, which is why I entertained the idea. So, I think I am going to make the executive decision to exclude dies from this group buy to keep things quicker and simpler.

I'm sorry to be a stick in the mud.

No problem. A little to rich for my blood as well. It would have just been handy, not necessary.

 

[hokie]

I am in for one, if it works better than the one I got from Richard, which is useless.
Would it be a good idea to buy the correct bit also as a pack? Tolerance is not large...

I can ask the tap company what drill bit they recommend and if they might sell it as well.

I assume it would be something like: 4.2mm - 0.35mm = 3.85mm... which is apparently sold on Amazon here in the US and for about $0.75 each!...

Instead of a die, I might be able to add matching drill bits to the order form if there is interest.

If I'm wrong on the drill size methodology, someone please let me know!

 

[hooked]

I added a 3.8mm and 3.9mm to my order to try both sizes from Victor Machinery for $0.85 each.

 

[Dieseldoc]

A little update to those who were interested in dies. The quote from Tapco is as follows...

"We have never made this die, so there is a one-time net tooling charge.
M4.2 X 0.35 HSS RND ADJ DIE 1" OD
1 pc price = $468.00 each NET
2 pc price = $362.70 each NET
3 pc price = $263.90 each NET
Manufacture time = 4 weeks
One time tooling charge = $165.00 NET"​

I, personally am decidedly not interested in purchasing any dies at those rates. Especially if I don't know if I'll ever even use one.

@Jarod888 , @PatrickR , @Dieseldoc , and @darrin1200 ... If you guys still want the matching die, I might suggest doing a mini group buy on the side. The manufacturing time is far longer than that of the taps as well. I didn't expect the die pricing to be anywhere near that amount, which is why I entertained the idea. So, I think I am going to make the executive decision to exclude dies from this group buy to keep things quicker and simpler.

I'm sorry to be a stick in the mud.

Going to pass at those prices. Thanks for getting info.

 

[Dieseldoc]

I can ask the tap company what drill bit they recommend and if they might sell it as well.

I assume it would be something like: 4.2mm - 0.35mm = 3.85mm... which is apparently sold on Amazon here in the US and for about $0.75 each!...
View attachment 371533

Instead of a die, I might be able to add matching drill bits to the order form if there is interest.

If I'm wrong on the drill size methodology, someone please let me know!

I use a number 25 drill bit which is 3.80MM --.145 and it works good for 75% threads.

 

[SteveJ]

I'm interested as well.

 

[Jarod888]

A little update to those who were interested in dies. The quote from Tapco is as follows...

"We have never made this die, so there is a one-time net tooling charge.
M4.2 X 0.35 HSS RND ADJ DIE 1" OD
1 pc price = $468.00 each NET
2 pc price = $362.70 each NET
3 pc price = $263.90 each NET
Manufacture time = 4 weeks
One time tooling charge = $165.00 NET"​

I, personally am decidedly not interested in purchasing any dies at those rates. Especially if I don't know if I'll ever even use one.

@Jarod888 , @PatrickR , @Dieseldoc , and @darrin1200 ... If you guys still want the matching die, I might suggest doing a mini group buy on the side. The manufacturing time is far longer than that of the taps as well. I didn't expect the die pricing to be anywhere near that amount, which is why I entertained the idea. So, I think I am going to make the executive decision to exclude dies from this group buy to keep things quicker and simpler.

I'm sorry to be a stick in the mud.

So, if one die is ordered, is the 468.00 total or is it in addition to the 165 tooling charge?

 

[PatrickR]

A little update to those who were interested in dies. The quote from Tapco is as follows...

"We have never made this die, so there is a one-time net tooling charge.
M4.2 X 0.35 HSS RND ADJ DIE 1" OD
1 pc price = $468.00 each NET
2 pc price = $362.70 each NET
3 pc price = $263.90 each NET
Manufacture time = 4 weeks
One time tooling charge = $165.00 NET"​

I, personally am decidedly not interested in purchasing any dies at those rates. Especially if I don't know if I'll ever even use one.

@Jarod888 , @PatrickR , @Dieseldoc , and @darrin1200 ... If you guys still want the matching die, I might suggest doing a mini group buy on the side. The manufacturing time is far longer than that of the taps as well. I didn't expect the die pricing to be anywhere near that amount, which is why I entertained the idea. So, I think I am going to make the executive decision to exclude dies from this group buy to keep things quicker and simpler.

I'm sorry to be a stick in the mud.

Wow! I'm out for the die.

 

[hokie]

So, if one die is ordered, is the 468.00 total or is it in addition to the 165 tooling charge?

So, if one die is ordered, is the 468.00 total or is it in addition to the 165 tooling charge?

My assumption is the $165 is on top of the quoted price per die. I'm not so sure what's so special about the M4.2 x 0.35 die to make it so expensive (tooling charge aside).

 

[hokie]

One more update...
The draft announcement has been submitted for review. Once any feedback is provided and necessary edits are made, I will kick off the formal group buy post in the "Group Purchases" forum and I will tag everyone who expressed interest here for awareness.

 

[d_bondi]

Thanks again for doing this Jeremy!

 

[RichAldrich]

Interested in a tap!

 

[hokie]

The official announcement is now live!

SKM-192 Click Mechanism Tap Group Purchase

SKM-192 Click Mechanism Tap Group Purchase Welcome to the SKM-192 Click Mechanism Tap group Purchase! My name is Jeremy and I will be your group purchase organizer. This buy is for an M4.2 x 0.35 tap meant to accommodate the Schmidt SKM-192 click mechanism in kitless click pens. No matching...

www.penturners.org

Tagging all of those who expressed interest in this thread:
@hooked
@d_bondi
@Tach
@wtturner
@hertzogcraig
@Darios
@Dieseldoc
@ProSingulisArts
@keithy
@Chriscb
@PatrickR
@floatslow
@showcaser
@KLJ
@MRDucks2
@leehljp
@darrin1200
@NJturner
@Todd in PA
@Penchant 4
@Jarod888
@mrburls
@Ironwood
@duncsuss
@Pierre---
@SteveJ
@RichAldrich

If you wish to purchase, please follow the link above. This thread will no longer be monitored for those who are interested.