Friction polish tips?

[sorcerertd]

When I apply friction polish, I usually end up with rings. Any tips? Am I applying to much friction (pressure)? How warm does it really need to get?

I am applying with cotton flannel. So far, I tried some paste stuff that I didn't like at all. The Aussie Oil gives a nice, rich finish, and has been my go to. I recently bought some Pens Plus as it seems quite popular around here.

I mostly use friction polish for odd shaped things where CA is next to impossible (IMO) and larger pieces.

While soliciting general usage tips and tricks, what really prompted this post is a bowl I am working on. It's "done", except I am not happy with the finish. There are visible rings, especially noticeable on the outside, and a seemingly bare spot in the center on the inside.

 

[Darios]

Coincidentally enough, I just tried Mylands for the first time about an hour ago and got the same result - rings.
So I'm interested in any answers as well.



This doesn't help with rings but it does have some interesting observations in it -

 

[leehljp]

What sandpaper grit are you using for your final sanding before using friction polish. Those rings remind me of sanding rings created with the lathe on. Some finishes on some woods - particularly soft woods - raise the grain up even though it was smooth before the application. The raised grain which follows the pattern of the last sanding - needs sanding with very fine sandpaper with the lathe off, IMHO.

Extra fine sanding with the lathe off should smooth it out. Then apply the FP.

 

[sorcerertd]

What sandpaper grit are you using for your final sanding before using friction polish. Those rings remind me of sanding rings created with the lathe on. Some finishes on some woods - particularly soft woods - raise the grain up even though it was smooth before the application. The raised grain which follows the pattern of the last sanding - needs sanding with very fine sandpaper with the lathe off, IMHO.

Extra fine sanding with the lathe off should smooth it out. Then apply the FP.

I took it down to 600 grit. Didn't see any sanding lines in it before application, even with my bifocal safety glasses. I can certainly re-sand by hand. I left no cleat or anything on the bottom, so I'm on my own for the inside. Cole jaws will cover me on most of the outside. One of these days, maybe I'll get a vacuum chuck. Guess I could make a jam chuck for now.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

The lines look like sanding lines. How are you sanding? Is it by holding the sand paper in hand and moving it back and forth? If that is the case those lines are from lower grits (like the 120) that the higher grit paper cannot remove as it isn't abrasive enough.

To avoid sanding lines not wanting to come out you can get a power sander or a hand held one like the Robert Sorby Sandmaster. These sanders spin in a circle while sanding to avoid creating fixed sanding lines like you get when sanding by hand. It actually provides a cleaner sanding and leave less lines to clean up as it acts almost like a random orbital sander concept. Just move in a steady, consistent motion to avoid oversanding spots.

If you are sanding by hand then stop the lathe between grits and hand sand in the opposite direction that you were sanding in. Doing this with the same grit helps break up the fixed lines that show up in your photos. I use this method when doing pens as those are hand sanded but the concept remains the same for bowls, they're just larger pieces.

I'm not a big fan of Myland's friction polish. It offers a decent finish but the polish is sticky and messy, I always where gloves when using it. A friction polish I like better is Doctor's Woodshop Pens Plus for many items that are not coming in contact with food line pens or decorative bowls. If it is a bowl that will be used for food, I will just use an oil like Tung, walnut, etc or a food safe finish like beeswax, cutting board oil or Doctor's Woodshop food safe finishes. I just like the guy's finishes because they look great, natural and are durable. How I finish really depends on the use the item will get.

 

[Darios]

One thing came up in my usual puttering around youtube -

At 33:08 he talks about why he cuts his sanding sealer with lacquer thinner - "..because if not, with wood spinning, you put the sealer on the wood and you build up the solids to fast it would gum and stack and give you an irregular finish."

That might be relevant to what we are seeing.

 

[TellicoTurning]

I'm not any expert on finishes, so take my method with a grain of salt... when I first started doing pens, I used the HUT wax finish... 5 coats of brown bar, then 5 coats of the white, finished with the Carnuba bar... spinning on the lathe with ordinary paper towels.... then learned the CA finish method, 5 or 6 coats of CA, using medium,wet sanding lightly with about 320 or 400 grit, then adding the HUT plastic polish... I got pretty good finishes that method.... I stopped doing pens about 8 or 10 years ago and switched to only bowls, pepper mills and other turnings....

My go to finish now is using Old Masters sanding sealer over the raw wood, 2 coats, applied liberally, then wiped back with the blue shop paper towels, sanding the last coat with high grit, usually 400 or 600... then an application of Yorkshire grit, my version, mineral oil, beeswax & DE, the multiple coats of wipe on poly, applied with a scrap of an old t-shirt, wiped back with the blue shop/auto paper towels, sanding between coats, applying multiple coats until I'm satisfied with the finish.... must work, I've sold over 4,000 pieces over the last 15 years doing markets.

 

[jrista]

This is something that can happen with Mylands friction polish. I have had it happen on pens as well as other turned items. I think it happens when the polish dries wrong, which may be a result of too little DNA in the mix. DNA will evaporate over time, reducing the ratio in the friction polish mix. You might try adding some additional DNA to your Mylands to thin it out a bit.

You should be able to sand back the ridges, and apply additional coats. Since it is a shellac-based friction polish, any subsequent coats should blend with the prior.

This is one of the reasons I moved to Pens Plus for pens. I used to use Mylands, but I had this problem on softer woods mostly. Not sure why, but the softer or more porous the wood, the more likely it seemed I would run into this problem.

 

[RunnerVince]

then an application of Yorkshire grit, my version, mineral oil, beeswax & DE, the multiple coats of wipe on poly, applied with a scrap of an old t-shirt, wiped back with the blue shop/auto paper towels, sanding between coats, applying multiple coats until I'm satisfied with the finish....

What is "DE"?

 

[RunnerVince]

I make my own friction polish, as learned from Capn' Eddie, who attributed it to someone else. [Insert name I forgot] Shine Juice.
Equal parts shellac, boiled linseed oil, and denatured alcohol.
I try to make small amounts because the DNA evaporates, and then the ratio gets messed up. Alternately, you can use a truly airtight container, but I've not had great luck with that. The combination of the chemicals and storing it outside on my balcony "workshop" seems to do a number on anything with a rubber seal.

 

[Darios]

What is "DE"?

Today is youtube day - but I would guess diatomaceous earth ala

 

[sorcerertd]

One thing came up in my usual puttering around youtube -

At 33:08 he talks about why he cuts his sanding sealer with lacquer thinner - "..because if not, with wood spinning, you put the sealer on the wood and you build up the solids to fast it would gum and stack and give you an irregular finish."

That might be relevant to what we are seeing.

That's an interesting tool rest he has there

 

[sorcerertd]

On this particular piece, I just buffed some pens plus on by hand and am going to call it good. I'll definitely make sure to be very thorough with the sanding next time. I do have a bit more of this wood that I haven't even cut into yet.

I've never tried Mylands, but it sounds like a decent finish. I guess you have to get used to what works with the different finishes, applicators, etc. I'd imagine the results would vary greatly with different wood types, too.

So, what's the best way to get a polish in the middle of the piece. That's the hardest to sand, too, but that's easy to fix by hand. Friction polish by hand, not so much.

 

[PreacherJon]

When I apply friction polish, I usually end up with rings. Any tips? Am I applying to much friction (pressure)? How warm does it really need to get?

I am applying with cotton flannel. So far, I tried some paste stuff that I didn't like at all. The Aussie Oil gives a nice, rich finish, and has been my go to. I recently bought some Pens Plus as it seems quite popular around here.

I mostly use friction polish for odd shaped things where CA is next to impossible (IMO) and larger pieces.

While soliciting general usage tips and tricks, what really prompted this post is a bowl I am working on. It's "done", except I am not happy with the finish. There are visible rings, especially noticeable on the outside, and a seemingly bare spot in the center on the inside.

I use equal parts of BLO, Shellac (cut normal), and DNA. Light coats... usually about 10 coats. I also sand down to 1200 grit. You'll need to experiment with the pressure you apply, swirling motion, and the speed at which you turn. There is a sweet spot... and when you find it, you'll love it.

 

[TellicoTurning]

What is "DE"?

diatomaceous earth.... like what you put in swimming pool filters.

 

[sbwertz]

toothpaste works, too. Put it on a bit of paper towel after you have sanded to your finest grit. You want "whitening" toothpaste that feels a bit gritty.

 

[sbwertz]

toothpaste works, too.

 

[sorcerertd]

I use equal parts of BLO, Shellac (cut normal), and DNA. Light coats... usually about 10 coats. I also sand down to 1200 grit. You'll need to experiment with the pressure you apply, swirling motion, and the speed at which you turn. There is a sweet spot... and when you find it, you'll love it.

Those are beautifully finished. I'll just keep looking for that sweet spot.

 

[jrista]

Those are beautifully finished. I'll just keep looking for that sweet spot.

Try thinning it a bit with some DNA. If it doesn't have enough, it gets sticky, and that's usually when you get the streaking. You might try thinning it even more, and just apply more coats to get the final finish you want. Are you sealing the wood first, or using directly on the wood? It might be worth trying to use a pure oil finish first, to limit how much of the friction polish soaks into the wood, as that can affect how quickly the finish dries. I you keep polishing once its dry, IME, that usually leads to streaking and ridges like you experienced in your OP.

OH, another thing you might consider. The kind of material you are using to apply the finish. If it is something that leaves behind fibers, that, too, could potentially be creating the ridges. Once a fiber from say paper towel gets in, the finish will often form a ridge around it. I am honestly not sure what applicator is best...something you might explore though. Maybe some others have some recommendations there as well.

 

[PreacherJon]

Try thinning it a bit with some DNA. If it doesn't have enough, it gets sticky, and that's usually when you get the streaking. You might try thinning it even more, and just apply more coats to get the final finish you want. Are you sealing the wood first, or using directly on the wood? It might be worth trying to use a pure oil finish first, to limit how much of the friction polish soaks into the wood, as that can affect how quickly the finish dries. I you keep polishing once its dry, IME, that usually leads to streaking and ridges like you experienced in your OP.

OH, another thing you might consider. The kind of material you are using to apply the finish. If it is something that leaves behind fibers, that, too, could potentially be creating the ridges. Once a fiber from say paper towel gets in, the finish will often form a ridge around it. I am honestly not sure what applicator is best...something you might explore though. Maybe some others have some recommendations there as well.

When I use my mix of friction polish, I just use a blue paper shop towel folded over a few times. I want the towel to get a little hard during the process as I keep adding layers. Also, you can feel the heat and know if you are getting it right.

 

[Jarod888]

The Capt Eddie shine juice fomula is from OB LaCost (spelling?).

The DNA will flash or evaporate off, so your mix may not be the correct 1/3 , 1/3 , 1/3. It is generally advisable to mix smaller batches and keep them in "industrial" grade solvent jars. Those are made of thicker plastic which is less permeable and better sealing, because they are designed to hold solvent.

 

[howsitwork]

Todd treat yourself to a wool 2" dia finishing pad and apply with drill . The centre part of a bowl is spinning slowly vs the outside so friction polish doesn't get hot enough to " cure " for want of a better way of putting it.

fine cotton cloth to apply and rub works well but for a bowl oil finishes are great

 

[jrista]

The Capt Eddie shine juice fomula is from OB LaCost (spelling?).

The DNA will flash or evaporate off, so your mix may not be the correct 1/3 , 1/3 , 1/3. It is generally advisable to mix smaller batches and keep them in "industrial" grade solvent jars. Those are made of thicker plastic which is less permeable and better sealing, because they are designed to hold solvent.

O.B. Shine Juice IS a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mix though. I've mixed it many times myself. I fully agree, it should be mixed in very small batches. I've actually been looking for some much smaller squeeze bottles than the ones I normally use, because OB Shine Juice can go bad very quickly, and when it does, it just doesn't work right. But I have aways used a .33/.33/.33 mix ratio myself. Ideally, I'd prefer to mix enough for a single project, and use it all up, and have to mix more, than have any reason for the DNA to evaporate off slowly over time. I just don't think the shellac holds up very long, and the BLO can go rancid after a while.

IF and WHEN OBSJ works, though, its a BRILLIANT reflective shine!

 

[PreacherJon]

O.B. Shine Juice IS a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mix though. I've mixed it many times myself. I fully agree, it should be mixed in very small batches. I've actually been looking for some much smaller squeeze bottles than the ones I normally use, because OB Shine Juice can go bad very quickly, and when it does, it just doesn't work right. But I have aways used a .33/.33/.33 mix ratio myself. Ideally, I'd prefer to mix enough for a single project, and use it all up, and have to mix more, than have any reason for the DNA to evaporate off slowly over time. I just don't think the shellac holds up very long, and the BLO can go rancid after a while.

IF and WHEN OBSJ works, though, its a BRILLIANT reflective shine!

O.B. Shine Juice IS a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mix though. I've mixed it many times myself. I fully agree, it should be mixed in very small batches. I've actually been looking for some much smaller squeeze bottles than the ones I normally use, because OB Shine Juice can go bad very quickly, and when it does, it just doesn't work right. But I have aways used a .33/.33/.33 mix ratio myself. Ideally, I'd prefer to mix enough for a single project, and use it all up, and have to mix more, than have any reason for the DNA to evaporate off slowly over time. I just don't think the shellac holds up very long, and the BLO can go rancid after a while.

IF and WHEN OBSJ works, though, its a BRILLIANT reflective shine!

My wife got me this type from either Hobby Lobby or Michaels (craft store)