Finding solid ground

[bradleyheathhays]

I'm rehabilitating this old dirt floor garage for a work area and I'm looking for something to help level the floor up. It doesn't need to be perfectly flat or anything, just so I don't feel like I'm crossing the Grand Canyon when I'm moving things around. I'm thinking there might be something like a small gravel that's cheap and would do the job. When I helped my neighbor put his driveway in they laid down some decent size gravel called 57s. They flatten out a little with some vehicle traffic and get locked into place. I need something like that but smaller. Those were ~2" but I probably need something 1/4, maybe up to 1/2."


Any suggestions?

 

[egnald]

Are you familiar with "hardened dirt"? It is sometimes used as a flooring for different areas in the country for inexpensive bases for equipment sheds and the like when the cost of concrete is deemed too expensive. It is essentially a mixture of 3 parts dirt, 1 part sand, and 1 part lime. It is essentially spread over the surface, leveled with a screed board, and tamped down with either a manual or motorized tamper to compact the mixture into a hardened state. - Dave

 

[grpass]

I'm rehabilitating this old dirt floor garage for a work area and I'm looking for something to help level the floor up. It doesn't need to be perfectly flat or anything, just so I don't feel like I'm crossing the Grand Canyon when I'm moving things around. I'm thinking there might be something like a small gravel that's cheap and would do the job. When I helped my neighbor put his driveway in they laid down some decent size gravel called 57s. They flatten out a little with some vehicle traffic and get locked into place. I need something like that but smaller. Those were ~2" but I probably need something 1/4, maybe up to 1/2."


Any suggestions?

Maybe look into decomposed granite, if you have any in your area. It packs down pretty good. If you do get gravel, get minus whatever size you decide on, like 1/2 inch minus, it comes with some dirt mixed in that allows it to pack down and not slide around. Hopefully you can use a hose on it and water jt down after you spread it out.

 

[dogcatcher]

Check around and see if you can get asphalt millings in your area. This is where the asphalt company strips a layer off the street or highway before applying another. Level the dirt, then a layer of millings packed down with a tamper will give you a decent floor, if you take care of it. You can rent tampers at industrial rental places.

 

[Stephanie]

Where I live you can get ground asphalt. I used it for around my garden shed. It is amazing. After a couple of months it gets super flat and compact. Weeds even have a hard time growing.

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I used to work at an asphalt plant before retiring. The millings are a great idea if available. Another idea is roofing shingles. They're made of the same oil/tar that the asphalt is made of. We would grind them up and blend them back into the asphalt through the plant. People that live in rural areas use them for driveways and to patch roads where other materials are too expensive.

 

[TellicoTurning]

If you have access to it, down in Texas my dad used a product called Cliche or Cleeche... ..(not sure of the spelling) but it's a clay mixture that he put down in driveways... once leveled and compacted then wetted down, makes for an almost solid top... Maybe only a Texas thing as I think it was a natural product...

 

[pshrynk]

If you have access to it, down in Texas my dad used a product called Cliche or Cleeche... ..(not sure of the spelling) but it's a clay mixture that he put down in driveways... once leveled and compacted then wetted down, makes for an almost solid top... Maybe only a Texas thing as I think it was a natural product...

Caliche. I can assure you that this stuff is hard as rock when you're trying to dig a trench for a sprinkler system.

 

[Rio grande penmaker]

I would suggest "blue stone" Maybe 3/4" or Chrusher run which has stone dust in it and will make an excellent base once it is tamped down. stay away from small smooth gravel as it will continue to shift.

 

[bradleyheathhays]

Thanks for all the great ideas, so many ways to go. Because I've got some asphault places close by I'll probably investigate pricing that route first. I can see how it could tamp down to make a very usable surface. And if you get some divots you could just add some down the road.

 

[bradleyheathhays]

Here's a sample I got at the quarry. It seems to be just as much sand as rock. After it's compacted I'll have this 2-3 in thick. Is there anything I can add to it that's cheap and I can get in bulk that will help it harden with water added?

 

[bradleyheathhays]

Well, looks like the final plan is gonna be to rake in 3-4 inches of the above rock then throw a good amount of this on top...

Rake it in the top couple inches good, water, rake again and compact it down. Since regular concrete is stronger the less water you use I wonder if that's what I should do here?

 

[bradleyheathhays]

Well I finally got it all together. So far I've got 6000 lbs of 1/4" and below limestone 'fines' shoveled into my 24x24 ft garage and have the last 3000 lbs on the trailer backed in and ready to offload. Plan is to rake it all out then add about 1000 lbs of portland cement type I / II over the top, rake that in good, mash down with a plate compactor then sprinkle some water on. Never done this before but if I can pull it off I think it can turn out to be a real decent floor.

One problem is the current rock / dirt floor is sloped, with some mild lumps in the middle. Right now the rock that's down is in piles and most of those lump areas are still exposed, so I wonder if I should compact those lumps before spreading the rock on. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Biggest issue is that one end of the floor is 4-5" lower than the other, so my rock will need to be 2" after being compacted on the high side and 6-7" compacted on the other. I've used a laser transit to mark good level lines down close to the floor and I'll be able to run string all across so I'll be able to gauge rock depth / level / slope fairly accurately before compacting.

Questions..

I'm guessing I should rake the rock out so that before being compressed it's level higher on the end that needs to be thicker. Wonder how much higher?

How much is this stuff gonna compact?

How much water should I add after it's all pressed down?

 

[Gary Beasley]

You are thinking right. Final result needs to be an even thickness of added gravel and concrete, otherwise you will have weak areas that can break through over time.

 

[bradleyheathhays]

I really don't know if I would have chosen to do this if I would've known exactly how much effort this was gonna take. In for a penny in for a pound I guess. So I got my 20x 47lb bags of type I/II portland cement evenly distributed (1 bag per ~18 sq ft, about 390 total) and raked into the top 2-3 inches of the 1/4" and below limestone fines. Rented the smallest plate compactor, 13" model and when I ran it over the mixture it basically cut huge tracks vibrating down through the rock spitting it out from the sides of the plate. I think the problem is the added cement powder has made for a fairly slippery mixture, something that a larger rock substrate might not suffer from. Giving it a second try I ran the compactor at it's lowest speed and although it was more manageable it basically did the same thing. The machine did manage to leave some of it compacted so I know it can work, just not this way. Good news is the compacted stuff looked filled in with almost no gaps so that bodes well for it setting up proper.

This was the scene after I got to the end of the first row, approaching from the left, and tried to pivot...

My only ideas left is to either use a 8x8 tamper or some kind of weighted roller. I've been a glutton for punishment for this whole project so hand tamping out a smooth floor will be worth it just to get it done.

Any ideas on how to compact this floor without using a compactor?

 

[Jarod888]

So my experience with the vibrating compactors is , it just takes time. You start with your entire area raked as flat as possible. Then you run lengthwise starting at one side. You then skip a plate compactors width and run the opposite direction, still going down the long side. Then you repeat until you get to the other edge of the long side. Now, you go back toards the starting side, this time doing the areas you skipped the first time.. rinse and repeat, compacting the raised areas on each subsequent pass. Once it is more compact, you can run each pass directly next to the previous one. Then you do the same thing, this time starting on one of the short sides. After that, it should be reasonably flat and compact, but you should run the parameter, in a "drain" pattern, essentially from the outside into the center, then from center to the outside.

The biggest thing with them is the material you are compacting needs to be confined by "walls", otherwise it will just keep spreading.

 

[bradleyheathhays]

Thanks I'll remember your advice. But the way that compactor acted I don't think in the end I could be assured any uniformity of depth or even floor evenness using it. It was just too wild and unpredictable how much it would throw out, or even stop moving forward for no reason.

I've got myself a 10 x 10 heavy tamper from the big box and I'm just gonna go that direction raking and tamping. After I'll just do the same water soak program I was planning on before.

Any advice heading this direction?