electical, if anyone knows

[cdat]

I am wiring up a new 230v, single phase table saw. the schematic for the table saw shows green as the ground, the instruction for the plug I bought shows white as the neutral. My understanding is neutral and ground in this case are the same, prior to plugging this puppy in, I would like some confirmation if anyone knows.

Thanks

 

[jeff]

What exactly is your question?

Neutral and ground are only the same at your service entrance. You need to run hot, neutral, and ground wires from the panel to the receptacle.

 

[RonMc1954]

cdat, 230v single phase has no neutral or white wire. In your case check to make sure your plug/cord cap is made for 230v single phase. if the instructions for your plug/cord cap shows the use of a white wire it may not be the right plug/cord cap. You can get by with using the white for a ground if marked with green tape at both ends and connected to the grounding bar in the panel. Hope this helps.
Ron

 

[cdat]

That was my thought, 230 has 2 hots and a ground, but no neutral, I think I picked up the wrong plug. Thanks for the help.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I know so little about electricity, it scares me just to read this thread. [:0]

 

[jeff]

As it happens, tonight I'm pulling wire in conduit for my table saw; 220v. It occurred to me that I gave a mostly wrong answer above. Sorry! Ron is obviously correct. Two hots, one ground for 220. No neutral. Maybe I should turn that electrical engineering degree back in to Ohio State. [:0]

 

[Daniel]

Jeff,
I prefer the three wire with ground myself. the 2 wire 220 just doesn't compute for me. I've wired way to many ovens and clothes dryers. when it gets to the shop I have to install a whole new brain. It sometimes helps to remember the colors for where the wires connect. silver usually is for white, brass is for Black or Red, green is for ground either a green wire or bare wire. if you have any wires left after that you need to ask more questions cause you have a two phase supply. or worse and you shouldn't be playing with that anyway.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />I know so little about electricity, it scares me just to read this thread. [:0]

I'm with Frank on this one!!!!!

 

[jeff]

Originally posted by Daniel
<br />Jeff,
...It sometimes helps to remember the colors for where the wires connect. silver usually is for white, brass is for Black or Red, green is for ground either a green wire or bare wire.

On 220V receptacles, there are two gold (brass) terminals, indicating that, as you point out, two hots are required. I just wired two, so it's fresh in my mind.

The only time you'll see a 4-wire on single phase is when the appliance (or machine...) needs 110 along with 220. Clothes dryers use 110 for the motor and timer circuits and 220 for the heating element. Ovens are similar. The neutral is required to provide a return for the 110 from one or both hot wires.

 

[RonMc1954]

Very well said Jeff!![]

 

[woodwish]

I am somewhere between Frank and Jeff on this spectrum, I don't mind doing all my own wiring (built my own house and shop without ever hiring an electrician) but I am always nervous to give any advice to others. Good luck with it, and I am glad the folks above gave you some advice. My advice, never hurts to have someone standing by with 911 programmed in the phone when you first plug in. []

 

[Mikey]

In this case, you take the green and wire for ground, and you take the white and make it one of the two hots. At the panel, you wrap black electrical tape around the white wire to signify it is not a hot wire and not a neutral. You will also do this if that wire goes through any junction boxes. The last thing you want someone doing is tapping nto a white wire thinking it is a neutral.[xx(]

 

[JohnDrayton]

Please! Please! Please!, don't mess with it,, it sounds like you are confused, go hire an electrician, (not cheap but cheaper than burning up your saw, or your shop)!!!






John Drayton

 

[JohnDrayton]

Please! Please! Please!, don't mess with it,, it sounds like you are confused, go hire an electrician, (not cheap but cheaper than burning up your saw, or your shop)!!!






John Drayton

 

[JohnDrayton]

Please! Please! Please!, don't mess with it,, it sounds like you are confused, go hire an electrician, (not cheap but cheaper than burning up your saw, or your shop)!!!






John Drayton[xx(][!]

 

[cdat]

Only thing that really confused me was the instructions for the plug, but that came from buying the wrong one. Went down and got the right one this am, the instructions matched what I thought they should say. Green to ground, White and black were the hots. Saw is running great, didn't even let the magic white smoke out[] So now I have a shop full of white tools that run. Have to say, and I could be starting a topic full of opinions, but I love Jet tools.

 

[Old Griz]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />As it happens, tonight I'm pulling wire in conduit for my table saw; 220v. It occurred to me that I gave a mostly wrong answer above. Sorry! Ron is obviously correct. Two hots, one ground for 220. No neutral. Maybe I should turn that electrical engineering degree back in to Ohio State. [:0]

OK, Now I know that if I do a Grizfest this summer and you show up, NOT to ask you to help rewire the shop... [][]

I'm with Frank... I don't do electrical work, other than maybe rewiring a lamp. It scares the hell out of me.

 

[btboone]

I need to make 3 phase 220V power for my machines. You get 3 hot legs and a ground. Fun stuff.

 

[rtjw]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />As it happens, tonight I'm pulling wire in conduit for my table saw; 220v. It occurred to me that I gave a mostly wrong answer above. Sorry! Ron is obviously correct. Two hots, one ground for 220. No neutral. Maybe I should turn that electrical engineering degree back in to Ohio State. [:0]

You aint got no time to be playing in the shop. Get back to working on the forum![]

Wheres is that emoticon with the whip!

 

[btboone]

Single Phase, Quad Phase...Whatever it takes. []

 

[TerryBlanchard]

Typically 230 volt wire is black, red and white. the black and red are for the hots on a 230 breaker and the white is for ground. If your wire is black, wwhite and green use the black and green for the hots and the white as the ground but never forget the color combination your use for what or it is shock time.
Terry Blanchard

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by TerryBlanchard
<br />Typically 230 volt wire is black, red and white. the black and red are for the hots on a 230 breaker and the white is for ground. If your wire is black, wwhite and green use the black and green for the hots and the white as the ground but never forget the color combination your use for what or it is shock time.
Terry Blanchard

This information is counter to what was posted earlier and contrary to what my intuition tells me?? Any electrical experts out there who can clarify this confusion for us. What does the NEC say?? Jeff: Want to put that degree to work one last time before turning it in??[]

 

[RonMc1954]

I agree with you Randy, my NEC code book is at work I will see if I can look it up.
Ron

 

[TomServo]

Randy: the NEC says use the black and white for hot, and reccomends putting red tape on the white leg to identify it as a hot line. The reason is that neutral lines should be treated as hot anyways - if the equipment is on, there is voltage there. Any of the wires can be co-opted if you use a little colored tape, except bare ground wires.

 

[Mikey]

Originally posted by TerryBlanchard
<br />Typically 230 volt wire is black, red and white. the black and red are for the hots on a 230 breaker and the white is for ground. If your wire is black, wwhite and green use the black and green for the hots and the white as the ground but never forget the color combination your use for what or it is shock time.
Terry Blanchard

Green is typically always used as ground. (I think there may be language in the NEC saying this) White is a conductor and can be used as neutral or if coded with some other marking, can be used as a hot.

In single phase, Red, Blue, and Black are normally used as hots, (alternating down the side of the panel breakers for ease of identification) and in 3 phase, you would then use Orange, Brown, Yellow, Purple, and any other number of color combinations with multi colored stripes.

 

[kgwaugh]

I am NOT an electrician, but...I have done quite a bit of wiring around the house shop & garage, and have studied up quite a bit for my own info & safety. This info is worth exactly what you paid for it, less than the proverbial 2¢!

Green is ALWAYS ground ONLY

Green is ALWAYS ground ONLY (intentional repeat)

WHITE IS NOT A GROUND.

WHITE is NEUTRAL though it can be color coded for specific uses, such as in a light fixture run from a switch, as a "black/colored (hot)" leg.

ALL other colors are considered to be "hot".

Most 220-240 single phase plugs are 3 prong (2 hot, 1 neutral), but for the past 10 years or so, many major appliances (clothes dryers, electric ranges, etc.) have been 4 prong---2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground.)

All other colors are used simply for convenience of circuit identification.

I cannot say the above to be gospel, but pretty darned sure about it.

 

[RonMc1954]

kgwaugh wrote:

Most 220-240 single phase plugs are 3 prong (2 hot, 1 neutral), but for the past 10 years or so, many major appliances (clothes dryers, electric ranges, etc.) have been 4 prong---2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground.)

I have been an eletrician for 20 years and I agree with everything you said except 220-240v single phase has no neutral in a 3 wire configuration. I bet you had a type-o. 2 hot and a ground.
I also think we are getting into territory that is far to deep for helping someone on a penturning site. IMHO
Ron

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by TomServo
<br />Randy: the NEC says use the black and white for hot, and reccomends putting red tape on the white leg to identify it as a hot line. The reason is that neutral lines should be treated as hot anyways - if the equipment is on, there is voltage there. Any of the wires can be co-opted if you use a little colored tape, except bare ground wires.

That is my understanding as well, Brian. My concern was more with the suggestion that the green wire could be used as a hot leg. As others have since confirmed, green is green is green is green and "NEVER" anything else!! It should always be the ground.

That being said, whenever you work on electrical circuits, you should always test them and not just assume that they were wired correctly. If the guy before you screwed up and made a booboo, it could curl your hair. Residential wiring is not that complicated and most folks with a little education and a little help can deal with it safely; but you do need to be careful. A mistake.....youirs or someone elses...can be quite painful!!

By way of example, apparently the previous owner of my home wired the garage. The home inspector missed it; but several of the receptacles had reversed hot and neutral wires and there were a couple that had open grounds. Under "normal" use this situation would not be detected by a user and would function perfectly well; but could be quite dangerous under the certain circumstances!!