Drilling metal segments

[zen.and.ink]

Hi, I have been getting into segmenting and using some soda can aluminum inserts. Thing is, every time I drill, with either bread point bits, or regular bits, the metal grabs and the glue gives way, and the blank comes apart. I'm drilling on the lathe, and I generally turn the speed down a bit for drilling, should I be spinning at a higher speed? Drilling up to the metal then punching through with something else then drilling out more, or...?
People seem to like these, but I'm hesitant to show them because of the difficulty and less than optimum turnout.

 

[Alan Morrison]

There was a recent thread about this subject and the replies will answer your queries. I'm not sure how to re-post that thread, but I'm sure that someone will.
You don't say what adhesive that you use. If it's CA glue then that's your problem straightaway. Two part epoxy is the way.
The odd time that I use CA and metal is when the metal has been pre-drilled.
When drilling there are better bits to use than brad points, which will cause your problems as well.

 

[Alan Morrison]

Jeremy, I just looked back through the recent threads and the one that you want was posted on Sunday entitled 'Glueing up segments '

Alan

 

[magpens]

Jeremy, your pen looks very attractive.
It would be well worth your effort to try to overcome the problem you are having.

I have two suggestions, which have already been mentioned by Alan.
First is to not use brad point drills .... use high quality twist drill bits ( I use Norseman "jobber" size bits but have not tried them on segments ).
Try a brand new bit ... the sharper the bit, the better, I would say.
Drill up to the metal, then let your blank cool before drilling through the metal ..... heat is definitely a serious enemy !!
Second is to try various types of glues .... first off, I would try epoxy ... allow it to cure well before drilling.
Sorry that I can't be more specific. . You will probably have to experiment with different epoxies ... 5 minute, 30 minute, 1 hour ..... (also brands ?).

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Here is the link to Sunday's thread that Alan referred to :

gluing up segments.

I am having a problem with gluing up acrylic and aluminum. Some hold some come apart. I used super glue and also used some CA on some. same results.

www.penturners.org

There have been other threads over the years ... search for "Gluing up segments" and "Glueing up segments" and other similar titles.
There is a "Search" button in the upper right corner of the IAP screen.

 

[Dehn0045]

You can also wrap the blank with scraps to hold it together while drilling. You still want to limit heat build-up so the glue maintains some integrity. I would suggest using a smaller drill (jobber twist as Mal recommends) for a pilot hole. This video helped me understand drill geometry a little better:

 

[walshjp17]

first off, I would try epoxy ... allow it to cure well before drilling.
Sorry that I can't be more specific. . You will probably have to experiment with different epoxies ... 5 minute, 30 minute, 1 hour ..... (also brands ?).

I suggest, that no mattert which epoxy type you choose (5-, 30- or 60-minute) you let the glue cure at least overnight if not a full 24 hours. The time on the glue label is the minimum time for the glue to merely set. It takes much longer to fully cure which is the time needed to be able to put force to the segments.

 

[zen.and.ink]

There was a recent thread about this subject and the replies will answer your queries. I'm not sure how to re-post that thread, but I'm sure that someone will.
You don't say what adhesive that you use. If it's CA glue then that's your problem straightaway. Two part epoxy is the way.
The odd time that I use CA and metal is when the metal has been pre-drilled.
When drilling there are better bits to use than brad points, which will cause your problems as well.

Thank you! I am using CA... And I was told that it shouldn't be a problem... I think it may have something to do with heat breaking the CA bond ...

 

[zen.and.ink]

Thank you all, so much, for the answers! Such a helpful group. I am blessed to be a part of it!

 

[jttheclockman]

Jeremy a few things come to mind. First get rid of the CA when segmenting. Next is never use brad point bits for pen turning at all. Good sharp well tuned jobber bits work well. Next yes heat is your enemy in anything we do with pen making. Do not increase speed, drill at lowest speed you can on lathe. I like 500rpms. Epoxy glues is the answer and yes let cure for 24 hours no matter what set up time is. Doing knots like you show you are asking the drill bit to drill on extreme angles in many layers so stress on the bit is extreme. All the above notes apply. I am not a fan of using cans as my aluminum. You need to sand the both sides to rid the protective cover and or any advertisement on them or else it will show and also not adhere well to. If thin aluminum is needed I use roof flashing but still sand well to both give it some tooth and get rid of fingerprints and any other garbage on the face of it. You can buy roll of this in home centers in roofing dept. I also like to use thick metals to make the design stand out better. Here is an example of acrylic and aluminum knot.

 

[Bats]

every time I drill, with either bread point bits, or regular bits

Well there's your problem. Bread point bits should only be used for drilling sandwiches. Just be careful with swirled breads like pumpernickel/rye, as the bit can follow the grain and your hole will come out crooked. Sometimes you can work around this problem by pilot drilling with a toothpick (flag optional).

(On a more serious note... Aw, hell, all the serious advice I can offer has already been laid out. Oh well.)