Do you use Additives when Wet Sanding?

[egnald]

Greetings from Nebraska.

I have a general question for all of you that have wet sanding as part of your regimen. I used to use tap water with a drop of Dawn dishwashing soap. This is something that I picked up many years ago when I spent some time in auto body shops. The idea is that a little bit of soap lowers the surface tension of the water which helps wet the paper and the material more thoroughly therefore reducing scuffing.

The Scientific Mumbo Jumbo: Surfactants are chemical compounds that reduce surface tension of water which helps wash away oil and grease. Most dish soaps, as well as laundry soaps, hand soap and body washes contain Anionic or negatively charged surfactants. They are widely produced and are made from a range of raw fats and oils like soybean, palm, tallow and coconut.

Recently, I took this one step farther by switching to a drop or two of a nonionic surfactant instead of "dish soap". I think it reduces the surface tension of the water more than soap and it not only helps wet the paper and the material more thoroughly, it also helps de-wet the surface when the slurry is being removed when wiping the blank with paper towel after each grit. The most conspicuous observation is that blanks start to de-wet when I get about half way through the MicroMesh grits. It is an obvious indication regarding the surface tension of the liquid. In addition, although it is entirely subjective, I think the level of gloss is higher than when I was just using the soap.

More Mumbo Jumbo: Nonionic surfactants contain no charge which makes them less likely to form a "soap scum" in hard water. As for cleaning ability they are much less effective so they are usually marketed as a rinsing or drying aids such as Jet-Dry.

So my question is whether or not you use any kind of additive when you wet sand.

Regards,
Dave

 

[KenB259]

I only use water, no additives.

 

[wolf creek knives]

Just water like Ken.

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I use tap water with a few drops of Dawn. Several years ago I read that it helps prolong the life of the micro mesh and I think it helps keep the residue from balling up and creating more scratches. I might add that 99% of my pens are some type of resin so I don't have to worry about water getting into the wood.

 

[egnald]

I use tap water with a few drops of Dawn. Several years ago I read that it helps prolong the life of the micro mesh and I think it helps keep the residue from balling up and creating more scratches. I might add that 99% of my pens are some type of resin so I don't have to worry about water getting into the wood.

Excellent observation. Now that I think about it, my MicroMesh pads have been lasting significantly longer than when I was using water alone. Maybe my technique has changed a little over time as a contributing factor, but I'm guessing you are spot on with the lubricity of the surfactant in the Dawn being what extends the life of the pads. - Dave

 

[Fine Engineer]

So far, I've only used tap water, but your question brings up an idea. In a past life I was very into photography, and even had my own darkroom. One of the chemicals I used was Kodak Photo-Flo as a wetting agent and surfactant for developing negatives. This reduced the surface tension of the water and eliminated water spots. That might be a better solution than dishwashing detergent, as there are no soaps or fragrances added. Here is one that may be worth giving a try;

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1313637-REG/legacy_pro_10194_200_wetting_agent_16.html?ap=y&smp=y

I have noticed that the CA seems to be staying in the micromesh pads (it seems to diminish once I get them wet, but when dry there is a noticeable white film on the pads), and this may reduce that allowing them to last longer. It does seem worth a try.

 

[jttheclockman]

I am a tap water person for pens. But I do other woodworking and when using MM on lacquer projects I use lemon oil and no water because water is a no no around wood. I say that only because with pens we seal them and water does not get into the wood. Or at least you should. This includes using thin CA on the ends to seal before wet sanding. The thing with pens and polishing or sanding in general it should be quick and not prolonged. You should not have to spend alot of time sanding or polishing. More is not better in the case of pens. They are a small object and the true craftsman should be able to get the finished shape done with turning tools. If you are wearing MM out quickly you either are not using a lubricant or rubbing too hard or too long. Change your method.

 

[dogcatcher]

I wet sand acrylics and cast resins with ATF, automatic transmission fluid, and when I wet sand wood, I use what is compatible with my final finish. That wet sand is usually a mix of BLO and mineral spirits or teak oil. I have not used water in years, more like decades.

The ATF is also a good drilling fluid for acrylics and cast resins. Easy to wash off with a soap and water. It also doesn't cause rust in the lathe ways.

 

[egnald]

So far, I've only used tap water, but your question brings up an idea. In a past life I was very into photography, and even had my own darkroom. One of the chemicals I used was Kodak Photo-Flo as a wetting agent and surfactant for developing negatives. This reduced the surface tension of the water and eliminated water spots. That might be a better solution than dishwashing detergent, as there are no soaps or fragrances added. Here is one that may be worth giving a try;

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1313637-REG/legacy_pro_10194_200_wetting_agent_16.html?ap=y&smp=y

I have noticed that the CA seems to be staying in the micromesh pads (it seems to diminish once I get them wet, but when dry there is a noticeable white film on the pads), and this may reduce that allowing them to last longer. It does seem worth a try.

That is very similar to the kind of nonionic surfactant that I am using. When I had a darkroom I used to use Ilfotol - Ilford's equivalent to Photo-Flo 200.

 

[mark james]

I use Fillico Bottled Water from Japan... about $1400 per liter... .

Nah - Tap Water, nothing else. But I do use a few drops of dish soap when cleaning my micromesh pads.

 

[egnald]

I use Fillico Bottled Water from Japan... about $1400 per liter... .

Nah - Tap Water, nothing else. But I do use a few drops of dish soap when cleaning my micromesh pads.

I love it! I had no idea that bottled waters could be so expensive. According to Google a bottle of Acqua di Cristallo Tributo a Modigliani lists at $60,000 for 750ml. - Dave

 

[WriteON]

I use Fillico Bottled Water from Japan... about $1400 per liter... .

Nah - Tap Water, nothing else. But I do use a few drops of dish soap when cleaning my micromesh pads.

Diet Water..... works like a champ