NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
Yeah. Or that. :tongue:
Classifieds Overhaul
- Thread starter jeff
- Start date
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
- Status
Yeah. Or that. :tongue:
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
LandfillLumber
Member
I saw his post about the membership.Did you read my post as I mention how he is against it and how I would stop talking about it?Unless I read this post wrong seems you have an attitude about it all.Maybe I read to much between the lines like some others do on the site,lol.I also would not have an issue if the person took the left overs back home after the party,thats just me.I thought the site was mainly for information purpose not making money,but the our motives change in life(not saying this is the case,but could be.Also if you are going to say this is not directed at anyone you should not attach a members post to it.I will still make a donation to the IAP whne I can,but the IAP will not get vendor money from me.As I said before I stopped selling over a year ago so not a big deal all the new laws for me,but the site is moving in the direction of Ebay that is what I think.Victor
Oh and I will not add anymore posts to this thing that are not constructive in someway to the IAP.Sorry
Oh and I will not add anymore posts to this thing that are not constructive in someway to the IAP.Sorry
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MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Victor, The first part of my post was directed to your constant suggestion that we charge a membership fee. As I said, that is not going to happen and charging for the classifieds IS going to happen. We are open to ideas to tweak it but the charging part is a done deal. If you want to use the classifieds at IAP, the free lunch is over for the most part. If you don't then that is fine. There have been way too many folks who have been eating that free lunch and not even bothering to say hi while they were here.
not all
I tend to acknowledge a higher power with my signature line - I don't advertise my products just a link to my store.
Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
Which he can with his sig line. You do it with yours do you not? You make it Blatently clear that you make the Leaf Blanks, It says "My Leaf Blanks at so and so", so i dont see where the problem is. There is no way that if you answered a question for me about a blank that i bought from so and so and you responded, i would immediatly know that you are the maker of said blanks.
I tend to acknowledge a higher power with my signature line - I don't advertise my products just a link to my store.
Happy to help! By the way, I am still drawing on the nice box of Corian and Avonite you sent me a couple years ago. I made my daughter's mother-in-law a pen for her kitchen which happens to have the same color Corian counters as a blank you sent me. She loved it!
New Smitty rule
Egad you mean there are others --- you guys always seem to act like I was the only one....:biggrin:
Except that Jeff is the boss and can do whatever the heck he wants and the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP. Actually, as mods, all we really get are flames and griping for simple things such as moving a thread from one forum to another!
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dtswebb
Member
I made it to the end of this thread. As my reward for the headache I've managed to develop, here's my thoughts -
(1) All the moderators deserve a real big thanks for keeping this site as informative and fun as it is.
(2) I'm strictly a buyer and the rule changes have me a little worried, but I'm willing to see how it all shakes out before saying I either like the new format or hate the new format.
(3) I know how much I spend with some of the others here; the $5 or $10 shouldn't impact anyone selling items.
(4) If people want to pay a membership fee, they can - it's called a donation and the button is there to use.
(5) I've particpated in all of Smitty's pre-production buys. I would really like to see this continue as I've been able to purchase some kits that no one else carries or will likely carry in my lifetime.
(6) I appreciate having a place to express my thoughts.
Matthew
(1) All the moderators deserve a real big thanks for keeping this site as informative and fun as it is.
(2) I'm strictly a buyer and the rule changes have me a little worried, but I'm willing to see how it all shakes out before saying I either like the new format or hate the new format.
(3) I know how much I spend with some of the others here; the $5 or $10 shouldn't impact anyone selling items.
(4) If people want to pay a membership fee, they can - it's called a donation and the button is there to use.
(5) I've particpated in all of Smitty's pre-production buys. I would really like to see this continue as I've been able to purchase some kits that no one else carries or will likely carry in my lifetime.
(6) I appreciate having a place to express my thoughts.
Matthew
LandfillLumber
Member
Okay i do have to defend myself not sure why against the people I'm doing it,lol.From those three ads I ran I made a net profit of about $45-48 and I also donated $20 to the IAP.So your point of the post was that I have just used the ads to no end and I'm full of BS.Funny how many ads did I run in the last year 6-10 I used to post that in a week or two so like I said I hardly use the ads anymore(if you had read my other posts,but you did not).So your point was again??????Just not sure what it was????The attitude is really over the top on all this its just a discussion and is very healthy for the IAP.Not sure how I got to be a bad guy all the sudden,but its not the first time my skin is thick.Love the site still,Victor
Gin N' Tonic
Member
Except that Jeff is the boss and can do whatever the heck he wants and the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP. Actually, as mods, all we really get are flames and griping for simple things such as moving a thread from one forum to another!
Curtis,
You are my friend, and I consider you to be a good friend but I must respectfully disagree with you here.
In my opinion, most of the mods or managers DO have financial interest in the IAP because they are also vendors who make a considerable amount of money from selling to the members of this site.
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Victor, who said you were a bad guy? I don't see where anyone has. The only thing I see is where you were saying I had an attitude about all this which is not the case. It is what it is and that is that!
clapiana
Member
wow was i late to the party! and my head really hurts after reading this thread and i will reread it again this week.
my 5 cents being a newbee:
i have been truely impressed with how IAP is run and the community. i have been on "boards" since my commodore vic20 days and ran a wildcat bbs many years before the web appeared and the IAP is a shining star in my eyes and the best no questions asked. i believe the whole pen turning community as a whole would also agree. jeff leads this place and i trust his judgment because of not what i think but because of what i have seen. his track record speaks volumes that he is concerned about this place and is not out to make money. if this changed he understans the community would also change and he is very protective of this community and so are many many others not because of the classifieds but because of the community. people know this place as home.
if the IAP team feels this is the new direction lets go! and see what happens. a change is needed because they have obviously thought this through but they are still open to a thread like this weeks before the change? amazing. an announcment could have showed up on a fri before the change went live on a monday but again this IAP. voices are being raised above and changes are already being considered because the mods listen and good grief that is a thankless job. hmmm thank you mods.
this IAP team has a vision on what has to happen now to get it to an even better place in the future. if things didnt go as planned which they never do then some tweaking takes place to hit the intent of this change. again i am all for it.
blessings!
craig
ps
i also feel that the buys that smitty has done like the daycom high end kits are of great value and the model is easy and works well. trying to coordinate this offsite wouldnt fly in my eyes. maybe another specific forum for this type buying or flag it as this type under the bulk buying thread?
memberships for vendors in the prem section might have a place but ads dont. ads make lots of money and money changes people and that type of change is what i feel is alarming everybody above. the model i have read above wont make people rich but it is long over due so IAP can also benefit which is only fair. its taken almost a decade to show up think about that for a minute.
i like the idea of bumping being allowed in the prem add section. claiming blanks is a no brainer? is providing shipping info for a group of people legit? what are other legit bumps in the prem classifieds.
the prem ads will do well not so sure about the $5 per post concept we will see. having rotating stickes of premium vendors in this section might work and maybe help lower or even eliminate that fee?
any thoughts on adding an auction thread with a fee?
i would rather pay via check and have it on account to be able to place an add in that it saves more money for IAP but i understand paypal makes things much easier on the back end.
my 5 cents being a newbee:
i have been truely impressed with how IAP is run and the community. i have been on "boards" since my commodore vic20 days and ran a wildcat bbs many years before the web appeared and the IAP is a shining star in my eyes and the best no questions asked. i believe the whole pen turning community as a whole would also agree. jeff leads this place and i trust his judgment because of not what i think but because of what i have seen. his track record speaks volumes that he is concerned about this place and is not out to make money. if this changed he understans the community would also change and he is very protective of this community and so are many many others not because of the classifieds but because of the community. people know this place as home.
if the IAP team feels this is the new direction lets go! and see what happens. a change is needed because they have obviously thought this through but they are still open to a thread like this weeks before the change? amazing. an announcment could have showed up on a fri before the change went live on a monday but again this IAP. voices are being raised above and changes are already being considered because the mods listen and good grief that is a thankless job. hmmm thank you mods.
this IAP team has a vision on what has to happen now to get it to an even better place in the future. if things didnt go as planned which they never do then some tweaking takes place to hit the intent of this change. again i am all for it.
blessings!
craig
ps
i also feel that the buys that smitty has done like the daycom high end kits are of great value and the model is easy and works well. trying to coordinate this offsite wouldnt fly in my eyes. maybe another specific forum for this type buying or flag it as this type under the bulk buying thread?
memberships for vendors in the prem section might have a place but ads dont. ads make lots of money and money changes people and that type of change is what i feel is alarming everybody above. the model i have read above wont make people rich but it is long over due so IAP can also benefit which is only fair. its taken almost a decade to show up think about that for a minute.
i like the idea of bumping being allowed in the prem add section. claiming blanks is a no brainer? is providing shipping info for a group of people legit? what are other legit bumps in the prem classifieds.
the prem ads will do well not so sure about the $5 per post concept we will see. having rotating stickes of premium vendors in this section might work and maybe help lower or even eliminate that fee?
any thoughts on adding an auction thread with a fee?
i would rather pay via check and have it on account to be able to place an add in that it saves more money for IAP but i understand paypal makes things much easier on the back end.
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MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
And I still disagree with you! Let me clarify. The MODS and MANAGERS have no financial benefit from IAP due to their positions within IAP. Some Mods and Managers, as members, sell stuff on IAP. I think I have ran one ad in the last year and it did not even have prices in it. It was to introduce a new product and direct folks to my website where all the financial transaction took place. I won't pretend that I don't need IAP, that is not the case. I get a lot of traffic from IAP on my website even though I don't advertise here very often.
However, as the head moderator here, I do not benefit in any way financially from IAP. I don't get paid, I don't get perks, I don't get special Christmas Cards from the boss, (actually I don't even get any Christmas Cards form the boss!), I don't get free tickets to any of the raffles or drawings, I will not even get discounts on the advertising once the new rules go into effect. I will have to pay full price just like anyone else.
However, as the head moderator here, I do not benefit in any way financially from IAP. I don't get paid, I don't get perks, I don't get special Christmas Cards from the boss, (actually I don't even get any Christmas Cards form the boss!), I don't get free tickets to any of the raffles or drawings, I will not even get discounts on the advertising once the new rules go into effect. I will have to pay full price just like anyone else.
Except that Jeff is the boss and can do whatever the heck he wants and the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP. Actually, as mods, all we really get are flames and griping for simple things such as moving a thread from one forum to another!
Curtis,
You are my friend, and I consider you to be a good friend but I must respectfully disagree with you here.
In my opinion, most of the mods or managers DO have financial interest in the IAP because they are also vendors who make a considerable amount of money from selling to the members of this site.
Texatdurango
Member
Jeff or anyone actually,
This is probably the only scenario that would apply to me if I ever decide to cut one of my burls into blanks again so I have a question......
I pay my $5, place the ad with a couple small photos with blanks numbered 1 - 10. People can visit the ad and send a PM saying they want blanks 3, 6 and 9, etc. That I finally understand, but how often can I change the photos by re-uploading updated photos with little red "X's" showing what's sold or what's left? Can I update the photos once a day, twice a day or once a week, is there a limit that I might have missed?
Thanks
greenmtnguy
Local Chapter Leader
As a sometimes vendor, I believe sellers miss a few valuable points. We have a specific target group and they are here on this forum. A classified ad in a newspaper hits random interests and is a crap shoot. In my area 5-10$ doesn't buy a lot of advertising and there are no photos in the paper. When I post an ad here, I know everyone that looks at the ad has an interest of some sort. Maybe price is wrong or it is not for me, but they looked. If I don't have the cost of the ad covered in profit, I am fooling myself by believing the ad is a good idea in the first place. Sure I will miss free posting, but there is no free lunch. Running a business costs money. How many vendors figure in the cost of driving to the P.O to mail product-Time and fuel are a definite cost unless your time is worth nothing and your fuel is free. If running a forum with no membership fee is such a money maker, why isn't the internet loaded with more hugely financial successful pen forums? The classifieds will either prosper or die a slow death and life will go on. I will be here to see either. Onward Jeff and don't forget my dividend check next month. Ok, I am done throwing my logs on the fire.
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Guys, believe me, the paid classifieds and new advertising rules are better than what Jeff wanted to do at the beginning of the year. That was to shut down the classifieds all together due to all the headaches and trouble it has caused both him and the moderator team. These rules were developed over a period of at least 6 months and had input from the 5 managers and 3 moderators. This is not something we threw together haphazardly. The goal is not to make money from IAP. It is to reduce the amount of advertising, thus helping us re-focus on our core mission and that never included being a marketplace, and to generate extra funds for things Jeff wants to do for IAP such as better prizes for contest, support for local chapters, upgrades to hosting services, upgrades to software, etc.. No one, not even Jeff, will profit from the classifieds charges. Every single penny will be used for IAP and IAP related expenses.
Don't misunderstand...
I stated what I think is going to be a potential problem area. I still see it that way. The problem is going to be that if misinformation is entered about one of my products I will not be able to correct it without saying I sell the product.
An example. I sell product A, I have sold a couple of thousand of them.
Member posts a valid complaint.
I can't say "Hey just send it back to me and I'll replace it". Only the seller could make that statement. So I would violate the spirit if not the letter of the rule.
I'd still resolve the issue....but I have seen what can happen in threads that start out just like that. In the end the seller comes out to be a "low life thief and a dog robber besides"
I stated what I think is going to be a potential problem area. I still see it that way. The problem is going to be that if misinformation is entered about one of my products I will not be able to correct it without saying I sell the product.
An example. I sell product A, I have sold a couple of thousand of them.
Member posts a valid complaint.
I can't say "Hey just send it back to me and I'll replace it". Only the seller could make that statement. So I would violate the spirit if not the letter of the rule.
I'd still resolve the issue....but I have seen what can happen in threads that start out just like that. In the end the seller comes out to be a "low life thief and a dog robber besides"
George
As the rules are currently written, you cannot change the photos. However, based on good suggestions from a couple people, we're going to change the rules to allow "Xing" of photos. It's a nice way to see what's left.
The idea behind not being able to change the photos was to help avoid the situation we've previously encountered where a bit of bait and switch (or delete the evidence) had occurred.
Now a related issue is that currently the edit time limit is 48 hours. It used to be longer, but now and then we get a guy who stomps off, and on his way out the door deletes a bunch of his postings. That just wrecks the flow of threads, especially when the guy is the thread starter. There is also the situation where someone drops a bunch of nastiness in a post, then decides a couple days later he should not have done that, and he goes back in to delete the evidence.
There is a mod for the forum which allows edit time limits to be set on a per-forum basis. I have hesitated to install that for a couple of technical reasons, but it might be a valuable thing to have now that editing the OP in the classifieds would be quite helpful. I'll look into that and report back!
Hope that answers the question.
Thanks, Alton. I appreciate your thoughts.
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Oh, and for anyone who thinks the fees are too high, consider this.
Take a look at this thread. I AM NOT PICKING ON VICTOR, it is just a convenient thread I found that was linked in this thread.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=82790
He had a total of $305 worth of merchandise sold in this thread. Under the new rules, he could have used the Premium Classifieds at at cost of $10. Selling the same on E-bay under one add for it all, his fees would have been $17.14 assuming he gets the e-bay top rater seller discount. That makes IAP $7.14 cheaper on this transaction and your fees go to further the goals of IAP and provide direct benefit to you as a member instead of lining E-bay and their shareholder's pockets!
Take a look at this thread. I AM NOT PICKING ON VICTOR, it is just a convenient thread I found that was linked in this thread.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=82790
He had a total of $305 worth of merchandise sold in this thread. Under the new rules, he could have used the Premium Classifieds at at cost of $10. Selling the same on E-bay under one add for it all, his fees would have been $17.14 assuming he gets the e-bay top rater seller discount. That makes IAP $7.14 cheaper on this transaction and your fees go to further the goals of IAP and provide direct benefit to you as a member instead of lining E-bay and their shareholder's pockets!
Timebandit
Member
Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
Which he can with his sig line. You do it with yours do you not? You make it Blatently clear that you make the Leaf Blanks, It says "My Leaf Blanks at so and so", so i dont see where the problem is. There is no way that if you answered a question for me about a blank that i bought from so and so and you responded, i would immediatly know that you are the maker of said blanks.
I tend to acknowledge a higher power with my signature line - I don't advertise my products just a link to my store.
Wasnt speaking about you Smitty. :wink::biggrin:
clapiana
Member
"As a sometimes vendor, I believe sellers miss a few valuable points. We have a specific target group and they are here on this forum. A classified ad in a newspaper hits random interests and is a crap shoot. In my area 5-10$ doesn't buy a lot of advertising and there are no photos in the paper. When I post an ad here, I know everyone that looks at the ad has an interest of some sort. "
a very good point.
a very good point.
I was covered....
I know you were not referring to me specifically but I'm in the same category. Some of us do not advertise products in our sig line.Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
Which he can with his sig line. You do it with yours do you not? You make it Blatently clear that you make the Leaf Blanks, It says "My Leaf Blanks at so and so", so i dont see where the problem is. There is no way that if you answered a question for me about a blank that i bought from so and so and you responded, i would immediatly know that you are the maker of said blanks.
I tend to acknowledge a higher power with my signature line - I don't advertise my products just a link to my store.
Wasnt speaking about you Smitty. :wink::biggrin:
1dweeb
Member
Jeff and staff - thank you all for providing a place where we can go for information and toys to feed our addiction. I have been a lurker, a poster, a buyer and occasionally a seller. If I have to pay to sell something to other like minded people, I am okay with that. I usually use the adds to find items that are not available just anywhere. I will keep looking at the adds so I hope the people out there keep posting. This is the place that we pen turners come to for inspiration and support in our hobby or business whichever the case may be. I for one appreciate this site and all who participate. Thanks again.
Gin N' Tonic
Member
You're kidding right?
As I read your post I see that you have a signature line that links to your web site. Again, In my opinion the fact that you have a link in your signature line I feel that you are advertising with each and every post. I guess that since all of the financial transactions took place off site you try to make me believe your statement but I would counter by saying that if you did not have a link in your signature line I suspect you would have a LOT LESS traffic on your site and less traffic usually translated to less sales, therefore you would see less financial gain.
Sorry Curtis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm not saying that you should not link to your site in the signature line because any member has that right and it would be ridiculous to deny mods or managers the same rights as all other members but as "head moderator" I cannot put you on my ignore list and therefore I cannot "turn you off". I realize that I have the ability to turn off all signatures buy why should I have to? Given these facts, In my opinion, you cannot make me believe that you do not get any perks or benefit financially in any way especially since you just posted, and I quote
" I won't pretend that I don't need IAP, that is not the case. I get a lot of traffic from IAP on my website even though I don't advertise here very often. "
Therefore, We'll just have to agree to disagree and chalk it up to looking at it from different points of view.
As I read your post I see that you have a signature line that links to your web site. Again, In my opinion the fact that you have a link in your signature line I feel that you are advertising with each and every post. I guess that since all of the financial transactions took place off site you try to make me believe your statement but I would counter by saying that if you did not have a link in your signature line I suspect you would have a LOT LESS traffic on your site and less traffic usually translated to less sales, therefore you would see less financial gain.
Sorry Curtis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm not saying that you should not link to your site in the signature line because any member has that right and it would be ridiculous to deny mods or managers the same rights as all other members but as "head moderator" I cannot put you on my ignore list and therefore I cannot "turn you off". I realize that I have the ability to turn off all signatures buy why should I have to? Given these facts, In my opinion, you cannot make me believe that you do not get any perks or benefit financially in any way especially since you just posted, and I quote
" I won't pretend that I don't need IAP, that is not the case. I get a lot of traffic from IAP on my website even though I don't advertise here very often. "
Therefore, We'll just have to agree to disagree and chalk it up to looking at it from different points of view.
And I still disagree with you! Let me clarify. The MODS and MANAGERS have no financial benefit from IAP due to their positions within IAP. Some Mods and Managers, as members, sell stuff on IAP. I think I have ran one ad in the last year and it did not even have prices in it. It was to introduce a new product and direct folks to my website where all the financial transaction took place. I won't pretend that I don't need IAP, that is not the case. I get a lot of traffic from IAP on my website even though I don't advertise here very often.
However, as the head moderator here, I do not benefit in any way financially from IAP. I don't get paid, I don't get perks, I don't get special Christmas Cards from the boss, (actually I don't even get any Christmas Cards form the boss!), I don't get free tickets to any of the raffles or drawings, I will not even get discounts on the advertising once the new rules go into effect. I will have to pay full price just like anyone else.
Except that Jeff is the boss and can do whatever the heck he wants and the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP. Actually, as mods, all we really get are flames and griping for simple things such as moving a thread from one forum to another!
Curtis,
You are my friend, and I consider you to be a good friend but I must respectfully disagree with you here.
In my opinion, most of the mods or managers DO have financial interest in the IAP because they are also vendors who make a considerable amount of money from selling to the members of this site.
DurocShark
Member
Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
Which he can with his sig line. You do it with yours do you not? You make it Blatently clear that you make the Leaf Blanks, It says "My Leaf Blanks at so and so", so i dont see where the problem is. There is no way that if you answered a question for me about a blank that i bought from so and so and you responded, i would immediatly know that you are the maker of said blanks.
I tend to acknowledge a higher power with my signature line - I don't advertise my products just a link to my store.
Wasnt speaking about you Smitty. :wink::biggrin:
What is or isn't in my sig isn't relevant. Sigs change. And to be honest, I doubt many sales were made because of my sig.
About sigs, Ed mentioned the idea of paying to have your product/site/whatever in your sig. I kinda like that idea and would support it if that happened.
I don't know why Timebandit has jumped on my arse about this... I keep reading the rules, and re-reading the posts by Curtis and Jeff and there's a lot of mud still in the way. So I'm trying to clear things up to my mind, if nobody else's.
Crap, I'm not even a retail seller here. Why am I even bothering?
Timebandit
Member
Smitty, i have never bought anything from you. But if i did, or any other vendor, or individual for that matter, i would PM you about a problem i had with your product. I would in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM post a thread asking anyone other than you what the problem is and how to fix it. Anyone who knows who they bought there product from, has a problem with said product, and decides to start a thread on IAP to figure it out, rather than PM you, the source of the product, is going about things the wrong way. I understand your complaint, but the people posting these threads just need to think a little more.
Not only that, but you have quite a good reputation around here, and i think you know you have a lot of people on your side, as you can see by all the people fighting for the "Smitty Rule" so i dont think one bad apple on IAP is going to make you look bad among the bunch. I dont think you think enough of your reputation here.
You could PM him "Hey just send it back to me and I'll replace it". If he's a decent guy, he'll post that the situation is resolved.
I don't see how there would be an issue of correcting misinformation.
The idea here is simple. To the maximum extent practical, confine true advertising to the classifieds. We have people who in the general forums post all kinds of stuff that is clearly intended to get people to make the purchase. Use the classifieds to get people to buy your stuff. Nothing wrong with providing helpful information in the general forums.
I'm sorry that the rules are difficult to digest. Unfortunately they had to be written considering the behavior of relatively few members. Some people will push right to the limit, or over, then complain when others do the same thing. That creates an antagonistic environment and is extremely annoying and time-consuming for me and the mods. It had to stop. Most of the DOC rules were written to legislate simple good behavior.
I consider our vendors to be some of the most experienced and valuable members we have. I want to encourage their participation while limiting the marketing nature of discussions outside the classifieds.
Off my soapbox now, I'll add that we want to improve the rules, so specific suggestions for intent and wording are welcome. PM me if you like.
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Never denied that I don't make money from the exposure I have as a member on IAP. I had the same exposure BEFORE I became the head moderator. However, I do not make money by being part of the IAP management or moderation team. That was my point. And yes, I am fully aware that I am advertising my website every time I post on IAP. About 50% of my business is from IAP members. The remainder is from Google searches, word of mouth, and other forums I participate in.
Hi Scott,
I think what Curtis intended to convey (and he's correct) is that the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP any more than any other member.
Yes, Curtis gets traffic from his sig. So can any other member.
Nice to see you visiting. Hope all is well with you!
I think what Curtis intended to convey (and he's correct) is that the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP any more than any other member.
Yes, Curtis gets traffic from his sig. So can any other member.
Nice to see you visiting. Hope all is well with you!
You're kidding right?
As I read your post I see that you have a signature line that links to your web site. Again, In my opinion the fact that you have a link in your signature line I feel that you are advertising with each and every post. I guess that since all of the financial transactions took place off site you try to make me believe your statement but I would counter by saying that if you did not have a link in your signature line I suspect you would have a LOT LESS traffic on your site and less traffic usually translated to less sales, therefore you would see less financial gain.
Sorry Curtis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm not saying that you should not link to your site in the signature line because any member has that right and it would be ridiculous to deny mods or managers the same rights as all other members but as "head moderator" I cannot put you on my ignore list and therefore I cannot "turn you off". I realize that I have the ability to turn off all signatures buy why should I have to? Given these facts, In my opinion, you cannot make me believe that you do not get any perks or benefit financially in any way especially since you just posted, and I quote
" I won't pretend that I don't need IAP, that is not the case. I get a lot of traffic from IAP on my website even though I don't advertise here very often. "
Therefore, We'll just have to agree to disagree and chalk it up to looking at it from different points of view.
And I still disagree with you! Let me clarify. The MODS and MANAGERS have no financial benefit from IAP due to their positions within IAP. Some Mods and Managers, as members, sell stuff on IAP. I think I have ran one ad in the last year and it did not even have prices in it. It was to introduce a new product and direct folks to my website where all the financial transaction took place. I won't pretend that I don't need IAP, that is not the case. I get a lot of traffic from IAP on my website even though I don't advertise here very often.
However, as the head moderator here, I do not benefit in any way financially from IAP. I don't get paid, I don't get perks, I don't get special Christmas Cards from the boss, (actually I don't even get any Christmas Cards form the boss!), I don't get free tickets to any of the raffles or drawings, I will not even get discounts on the advertising once the new rules go into effect. I will have to pay full price just like anyone else.
Except that Jeff is the boss and can do whatever the heck he wants and the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP. Actually, as mods, all we really get are flames and griping for simple things such as moving a thread from one forum to another!
Curtis,
You are my friend, and I consider you to be a good friend but I must respectfully disagree with you here.
In my opinion, most of the mods or managers DO have financial interest in the IAP because they are also vendors who make a considerable amount of money from selling to the members of this site.
IPD_Mrs
Member
Ah, but see this is something different. Having a relationship with the vendor and having a relationship with SUPPLIERS that the vendor sells products for is two VERY DIFFERENT issues. My point is that we "mostly" know who is related to whom when it comes to vendors. We don't always know who is related to Vendor J's supplier of >>>insert product name here<<< and therefore would be very difficult to know that a person commenting is in some way related to the supply source for that product. For example - CA. MANY of us sell that product, maybe some of us get it from the same supplier ... if the bottle filler from CA shows up on the IAP and makes a comment on my company having this product - you have no way of knowing if that bottle filler is my 2nd cousin twice removed or the SIL of the owner of CA if that isn't stated at some point. Thus this is a rule that I believe is quite acceptable, but not quite as easily enforced as say the size of photographs which is pretty cut and dry in my eyes.
Thanks for all the hard work and taking the time to clarify these questions jeff, I certainly appreciate it.
Linda
That's a good point and a good catch. I'll be more careful.
Timebandit
Member
Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
Which he can with his sig line. You do it with yours do you not? You make it Blatently clear that you make the Leaf Blanks, It says "My Leaf Blanks at so and so", so i dont see where the problem is. There is no way that if you answered a question for me about a blank that i bought from so and so and you responded, i would immediatly know that you are the maker of said blanks.
I tend to acknowledge a higher power with my signature line - I don't advertise my products just a link to my store.
Wasnt speaking about you Smitty. :wink::biggrin:
What is or isn't in my sig isn't relevant. Sigs change. And to be honest, I doubt many sales were made because of my sig.
About sigs, Ed mentioned the idea of paying to have your product/site/whatever in your sig. I kinda like that idea and would support it if that happened.
I don't know why Timebandit has jumped on my arse about this... I keep reading the rules, and re-reading the posts by Curtis and Jeff and there's a lot of mud still in the way. So I'm trying to clear things up to my mind, if nobody else's.
Crap, I'm not even a retail seller here. Why am I even bothering?
Don, im not jumping anyone. Im sorry if anything came out that way.
My point was that if i bought your blanks, i know who made them. Not just from your sig, but from where you sell them, they tell me who makes them. If i have a question, i will go to you directly. I will NOT start a thread asking for help with your blanks from anyone but you, and i wont even ask the vendor i got them from. Why, because i will go to the source to get my answers. You act like know one around here knows who made the products they buy, and if you tried to help with information with one that you sell, your advise would just "get lost in the noise" as you put it, because know one would know you were the maker or vendor. I am sorry that others would lose out on that information, but thats just the way i go about things, i dont want to beat around the bush and get a whole bunch of answers from people that dont make or sell the said product by starting a thread. If they have the same problem, they can PM you as well. Again i am sorry if you feel i am jumping you, i in no way mean it that way.:redface: Just joining in on the conversation.
I don't have a solution
I don't have a solution....it is something I see as a potential area of contention. To be honest I doubt that eliminating the rule altogether is really any less a problem but I think it's something that we're going to need to be aware of.
I don't have a solution....it is something I see as a potential area of contention. To be honest I doubt that eliminating the rule altogether is really any less a problem but I think it's something that we're going to need to be aware of.
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steeler fan1
Member
Nothing really earth shaking to add. It appears that all the conversations involve vendors and classifieds(because thats what its mostly about). I'm not a vendor, don't have anything to sell.
I'm a buyer and I've bought from lots of people on this site, Everyone loves me right:bulgy-eyes:. I try to support the vendors and people in general, who frequent this site by purchasing from them before hitting the big box stores. I particularly like the personal touch as well as getting a fair deal. It's nice to know the person you're dealing with, if only via email. That being said, it is my hope that all the changes provide a positive buying experience. Of course we wont know until the changes are implimented:biggrin:.
I'm hoping for the best, lets leter' rip!
Carl
I'm a buyer and I've bought from lots of people on this site, Everyone loves me right:bulgy-eyes:. I try to support the vendors and people in general, who frequent this site by purchasing from them before hitting the big box stores. I particularly like the personal touch as well as getting a fair deal. It's nice to know the person you're dealing with, if only via email. That being said, it is my hope that all the changes provide a positive buying experience. Of course we wont know until the changes are implimented:biggrin:.
I'm hoping for the best, lets leter' rip!
Carl
Polarys425
Member
I, for one, don't see a difference in the risk to the buyer in the type of pre-buys Smitty does, and an outright order of instock goods. The buyer STILL PAYS FIRST, and is at risk of losing that until said goods are delivered.
Monty
Group Buy Coordinator
The difference is it's the buyers money at risk, not the money of the participants in the buy that's at risk. There have been at least two other situations of IAP members prepaying for items to be delivered at a date sometime in the future and the person running the buy disappeared, for who knows what reason, without delivering the goods. Then people got upset and demanded IAP do something about this despite it being in the TOS that IAP has no control over transactions between individuals.
alphageek
Former Moderator
This AND the fact that its been stated that the suppliers involved are overseas and refuse to even offer insurance on the goods making it. Even with the best vendors, there is risk and by having members here pay for this up front their risk is greater.
Theres a big difference between buying a product that a vendor has in stock and will be delivered in short order and one that doesn't exist yet and is months out. The likelihood of a lot of members loosing money on product that is at a vendor is much smaller because if the vendor doesn't deliver for the money, that is known much faster.
JerrySambrook
Member
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Let's be clear
There is absolutely NOTHING to prevent the coordinator of a group buy from absconding with the money paid him/her and not deliver the goods.
A thief is a thief and if someone is intending to fleece IAP members it is no harder to do it with a Group buy than by my approach. Probably a little easier because a quick call to Beau Biden (Delaware's State Attorney General) would get him after me for fraud and since I have a business license I'm not hard to find.
That being said - I am still not asking for any change in the new rule. After discussion the administration decided that they do not want me doing what I've been doing. I can't say I especially like a rule being made that only affects mebut then I can't say I'd especially like having an exception made that would only affect me either.
The Rule is OK - the sun will still come up in the morning and go down in the evening and the world will keep turning. Honest.
Personally I am going to forget this and get on with the rest of my life which is short enough already.
Let's be clear about something:
There is absolutely NOTHING to prevent the coordinator of a group buy from absconding with the money paid him/her and not deliver the goods.
A thief is a thief and if someone is intending to fleece IAP members it is no harder to do it with a Group buy than by my approach. Probably a little easier because a quick call to Beau Biden (Delaware's State Attorney General) would get him after me for fraud and since I have a business license I'm not hard to find.
That being said - I am still not asking for any change in the new rule. After discussion the administration decided that they do not want me doing what I've been doing. I can't say I especially like a rule being made that only affects mebut then I can't say I'd especially like having an exception made that would only affect me either.
The Rule is OK - the sun will still come up in the morning and go down in the evening and the world will keep turning. Honest.
Personally I am going to forget this and get on with the rest of my life which is short enough already.
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