Classifieds Overhaul
- Thread starter jeff
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Alice,
You sure can. The only limit is 5 photos. If you can fit 50 items in a photo, that's fine. The only catch is that buyers can't make "claiming posts" in the $5 forum. They'd have to send you a PM.
So for items like wood blanks, where people want to pick a specific one, the Premium Classifieds are more suitable, as people can post to claim specific items and everyone else can see immediately what's taken. You can still sell blanks in the $5 forum and people can claim them by PM, but you'd need to use one of your weekly followup posts (or "X" a photo) to show what's left.
In your case, where blanks of a certain type of Corian are mostly the same, for example, you probably would not need that. You could post photos of a typical box you'd be putting together, and people could PM that they want one.
Hope that helps!
Yes, a full box of corian would be an item - but you're mostly limited by the number of photos (and still confined by the size of the photos - that hasn't changed). You can still sell a boxfull, or you could sell individual pieces of corian provided that you don't go over the photo limit.
BUT - If you require claiming posts, you have to use the premium classifieds. If you want to conduct business via your own website, PM or email, then the regular classifieds would suffice.
BUT - If you require claiming posts, you have to use the premium classifieds. If you want to conduct business via your own website, PM or email, then the regular classifieds would suffice.
There is no limit on the number of ads per week. The limit is one ad running at a time. Ads CAN run for two weeks, and one followup by the seller per week is allowed.
If someone wants to place 5 ads a day, that's fine as long as the last one is closed before a new one is placed.
EDIT: Here's the verbiage from the rules post:
Frequency of Ads: You may post as many ads as you wish in both the Classifieds and Premium Classifieds forums as long as you do not exceed the number of simultaneous ads allowed.
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MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Alice, your current ad would fit into the $5 classifieds regardless of how many of those boxes you sell. Your current ad does not say how many you have available and it is irrelevant in the $5 section. You could even offer 100 boxes of Red blanks, 75 boxes of blue blanks, 12 boxes of black blanks, 90 boxes of green blanks, and 10 boxes of gold blanks in that section. Then, people would need to PM you to buy rather than post in the thread and you would be allowed to use your allotted updates to tell what is left, etc.
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MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
And as long as the ad is closed which means it has to be reported closed and moved by the moderators before you can start a new one.
Answers to questions
When a member asks a question that begins "Where is the best place to buy..." or "Who makes the best...? How does he/she get an honest answer from anyone without "advertising". If I am selling product X and I happen to think product X is the best (and I might sell it because I've used it and do think it's the best) how can I answer the question "Who sells the best product X?" without it being an advertisment.
And my personal favorite "Who has the lowest prices for product X?" Answer - We (vendors that is) all do just ask any of us.
I see several such questions being asked each day here and they are not being asked by the vendors. Those questions are inviting vendors to comment. Then their comment is called "blatant advertising".
Under the new rules - because I both buy from and sell to several vendors on this site, I am going to be prohibited from commenting on their products even though as a decent business man I wouldn't be buying from them if they were selling junk and even though I know they are selling their products to members retail below what you can buy them for "wholesale" from the nations leading wholesaler.
When a member asks a question that begins "Where is the best place to buy..." or "Who makes the best...? How does he/she get an honest answer from anyone without "advertising". If I am selling product X and I happen to think product X is the best (and I might sell it because I've used it and do think it's the best) how can I answer the question "Who sells the best product X?" without it being an advertisment.
And my personal favorite "Who has the lowest prices for product X?" Answer - We (vendors that is) all do just ask any of us.
I see several such questions being asked each day here and they are not being asked by the vendors. Those questions are inviting vendors to comment. Then their comment is called "blatant advertising".
Under the new rules - because I both buy from and sell to several vendors on this site, I am going to be prohibited from commenting on their products even though as a decent business man I wouldn't be buying from them if they were selling junk and even though I know they are selling their products to members retail below what you can buy them for "wholesale" from the nations leading wholesaler.
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MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
And will no longer be allowed to be answered by the vendor that sells it.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Yes, and when some of us reply, Smitty, other members hit the yellow triangle to complain about us advertising--
So, the rules are changed to make the "complaining members" happier.
Squeaky wheel---
So, the rules are changed to make the "complaining members" happier.
Squeaky wheel---
The honest answer comes from a customer.
If you sell it, you can't pitch it outside the classifieds.
Of all the issues with advertising, marketing, etc. at the site, the #1 gripe is that vendors are pitching their stuff outside the classifieds.
I thought that the rules about product references were clear. Help me figure out what to add (or take away!) to make them crystal clear.
EDIT: It's my belief that about 95% of the active members don't sell anything. Another few percent sell stuff they make. The other maybe 1% have complicated relationships with multiple vendors, partners, suppliers, manufacturers, consultants, etc., and probably should refrain from wading into murky waters. In your example, the people you're buying from who run great businesses and sell top-notch stuff. They must have lots of customers at IAP who can give them glowing reviews.
I am NOT saying that the 1% with multi-pronged business relationships CAN'T comment. They can, but they should be extra careful to not to look like they're pumping up a vendor with whom they are involved. Sometimes, the benefits of a position required extra scruples. As a civil servant with a certain type of job, I have more ethics compliance to worry about than the average fed. I'm happy with my compensation and I behave. As a vendor selling to our population here, you're being compensated with profits, so a little extra care in maintaining a scrupulous appearance isn't much to ask, is it?
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DocStram
Member
Actually, ed, the rules are changed to make things more ethical.
I didn't mean that to sound like a complaint
I apologize, something must have come out wrong there. I was commenting more on what I thought made the new rule necessary than on the rule itself - I'm fine with that.
Where I see the potential for problems arising is when someone asks a technical question or describes a technical problem that can really only be answered by the selling vendor - only no one really knows who that is.
For instance, I had a customer (who thankfully contacted me rather than publish his problem on the site) who had assembled 3 pens from kit's I had sold him and was convinced all three had bad transmissions. The solution was simply that he was not installing the transmission properly and when I told him what he had to do, he did it and problem fixed.
If he had raised that question in a forum here - I will guarantee he would have gotten a half a dozen different answers, all wrong and my products would have gotten bashed all over the place for being cheap junk. Under the new rules I wouldn't even be able to come in and state what the problem was and that it was fixed.
Kind of long winded, but that is what I perceive will be a problem under the new rules. I wish I could think of a way to address it and still maintain what you are trying to do with the new rule. Perhaps more moderation - but I really think those guys have enough to do already.
I apologize, something must have come out wrong there. I was commenting more on what I thought made the new rule necessary than on the rule itself - I'm fine with that.
Where I see the potential for problems arising is when someone asks a technical question or describes a technical problem that can really only be answered by the selling vendor - only no one really knows who that is.
For instance, I had a customer (who thankfully contacted me rather than publish his problem on the site) who had assembled 3 pens from kit's I had sold him and was convinced all three had bad transmissions. The solution was simply that he was not installing the transmission properly and when I told him what he had to do, he did it and problem fixed.
If he had raised that question in a forum here - I will guarantee he would have gotten a half a dozen different answers, all wrong and my products would have gotten bashed all over the place for being cheap junk. Under the new rules I wouldn't even be able to come in and state what the problem was and that it was fixed.
Kind of long winded, but that is what I perceive will be a problem under the new rules. I wish I could think of a way to address it and still maintain what you are trying to do with the new rule. Perhaps more moderation - but I really think those guys have enough to do already.
glycerine
Member
I'm trying to remain unbiased and look at both sides here. I'm not sure what all of the complaints have been, but in this case I think part of the issue is, are they GETTING an honest answer? Of course, they will get multiple answers from multiple people, and they are all opinions, and that's exactly what the "asker" is looking for. But some "answerers" will be biased toward their own product.
When I am shopping for a product, whether it be a car, or a pair of shoes, I do my research, and I look for reviews from current or previous users of that product. Of course I will read the manufacturer's or seller's description of the item, but will not base my assessment of that product's quality or reliability based on info from the manufacturer or seller...
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Which came first?
I have bought and sold thousands of "kits", from 1995-2009ish. In 2008, Dawn started Exotics. In 2010, we started selling pen kits.
So, I PICKED the kits we sell---I am the car dealer OWNER, as well as the salesman. Smitty picked the kits he sells (in some cases they are made to HIS specifications). We each spend more on kits than you spent on your last car.
But, you don't want to hear from us?? Because what we say is an OPINION??? That is your prerogative, but it is interesting how many people used to say they benefit from my input and now, it is no longer valuable, unless confined to an advertisement.
I understand why these rules are being adopted. I just think a small group of people is removing valuable information from a much larger group. The "silent majority" said nothing, cause they were happy.
Those who were unhappy motivated change.
So be it.
I have bought and sold thousands of "kits", from 1995-2009ish. In 2008, Dawn started Exotics. In 2010, we started selling pen kits.
So, I PICKED the kits we sell---I am the car dealer OWNER, as well as the salesman. Smitty picked the kits he sells (in some cases they are made to HIS specifications). We each spend more on kits than you spent on your last car.
But, you don't want to hear from us?? Because what we say is an OPINION??? That is your prerogative, but it is interesting how many people used to say they benefit from my input and now, it is no longer valuable, unless confined to an advertisement.
I understand why these rules are being adopted. I just think a small group of people is removing valuable information from a much larger group. The "silent majority" said nothing, cause they were happy.
Those who were unhappy motivated change.
So be it.
Dave Turner
Member
Just another idea for Jeff et. al. that's probably been considered and discarded, but here it goes:
It seems many of the perceived problems arise from the behavior of the forum-style format. New posts cause a thread to be bumped to the top of the forum list. For sellers, top is good, so some may figure out creative ways to keep their thread near the top of the forum list. Since you will be monetizing the premium classified forum, why not set up a model where several threads (about 10 or so initially - this can be altered depending on demand) maintain a fixed position at the top of the list , just like the stickies. Sellers have the option to pay a significant surcharge to have their ad placed in one of these fixed slots for its two week run. If there is heavy demand for these slots, those who have not utilized a fixed slot the longest would be given priority - to give everyone a fair chance at the top slots.
Basically, you will be paying more for better ad placement.
It seems many of the perceived problems arise from the behavior of the forum-style format. New posts cause a thread to be bumped to the top of the forum list. For sellers, top is good, so some may figure out creative ways to keep their thread near the top of the forum list. Since you will be monetizing the premium classified forum, why not set up a model where several threads (about 10 or so initially - this can be altered depending on demand) maintain a fixed position at the top of the list , just like the stickies. Sellers have the option to pay a significant surcharge to have their ad placed in one of these fixed slots for its two week run. If there is heavy demand for these slots, those who have not utilized a fixed slot the longest would be given priority - to give everyone a fair chance at the top slots.
Basically, you will be paying more for better ad placement.
witz1976
Member
Well I am one of those "silent majority" as I get tired of all the whining and complaining, I try not to add the large amount of BS that flies around this place at times.
Ed, you are one of the most knowledgeable people here on the forum, unfortunately the list of people seems to get smaller and smaller every day as more and more people are becoming lurkers, sick of the whining and complaining.
I find it shameful that you are forced to censor yourself because certain people feel you are out only to sell, not give free advice. This statement goes to all the vendors as I think about it... I consider this a part of SERVICE! Something most people complain no longer exsists, but when someone tries it is called selling. Pitiful.
soligen
Member
Smitty, I think this is allowed. Here is the rule
You can participate in threads in the general forums where your products are being discussed, provide helpful advice, and respond to most questions about them.
You just cant say you sell it.
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Timebandit
Member
Thank you Dennis. I think a lot of people need to go back and read the rules CAREFULLY. In no way is any of that advertising. Just dont say that you sell it.
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MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Soligen is absolutely correct. You guys are reading too much into these rules that are just not there. You are certainly able to answer questions and correct misinformation. You just are not allowed to go on and tell the world that you sell such and such. When this happens, many times, the thread turns into a discussion about other items that vendor sells and then the vendor comes back and provides more information and sometimes even takes it a step to far and tells everyone that they also provide another product. This rule is designed to stop the advertising, perceived or real, and that is it. It is real simple to answer questions without constantly telling folks you sell it. Remember, you still have your signature so every time you answer a question, you ARE advertising within the rules and for free.
DurocShark
Member
Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
That's probably worth putting in one of the rule threads in the new classifieds section.
AS I read the first post on this thread about the charge to post a classified add and the money would allow the forum to do other things. OK my question :
#1 what other things? how is the money going to be used?
#2 where is the money kept and whom has access to the money?
Also if a vendor repeats an ad after the 2 week period shouldn't that vendor get a discount if he just continues the came add.
#1 what other things? how is the money going to be used?
#2 where is the money kept and whom has access to the money?
Also if a vendor repeats an ad after the 2 week period shouldn't that vendor get a discount if he just continues the came add.
Timebandit
Member
Then, unless the vendor is known as the seller, his advice (which would be considered expert if he is known as the seller) gets lost in the noise?
Granted, a direct communication would get the individual the answer, but then all the other users miss out.
I have a hard time with this rule (can ya tell? :wink
Which he can with his sig line. You do it with yours do you not? You make it Blatently clear that you make the Leaf Blanks, It says "My Leaf Blanks at so and so", so i dont see where the problem is. There is no way that if you answered a question for me about a blank that i bought from so and so and you responded, i would immediatly know that you are the maker of said blanks.
glycerine
Member
Apparently, you don't know what kind of car I drive :wink:.
I didn't say I didn't want to HEAR from the seller, but I will not make a buying decision BASED on WHAT I hear from the seller. Don't take it personally, this is me commenting on how MYSELF as a BUYER makes decisions, speaking in general. I'm not claiming that every buyer is like me or that every seller is like you (and Dawn or Smitty...).
LandfillLumber
Member
So the money is not even needed to run the site?Donations have done it so far?The money is going to be used for contests that anyone can enter and that the vendors flip the bill for,this gets me back to a membership.A mebership is not even an option as Jeff has said,but is it fair for the vendors to provide all the money to support these contests?I'm no longer a vendor on the IAP my wood is a better fit for other type turners not so much pen guys,and hard to keep up with all the great casting and such going on by all the members.Membership would weed out those one time posters and I think the iAP has a reputation to draw in people even if they have to pay.We are talking a tiny amount of money really.So what about vendor memberships?They can be by the month or what have you,it just seems $5 and $10 per is a lot of money.But I will stop with the membership,memberships to turn into resources.Victor
soligen
Member
Post 174
I'm not trying to nitpic - this just struck my sometimes odd sense of humor, and I thought it good to point something out.
As soon as Rick buys a thread, Jeff could not make this comment without violating his own rules, becasue they have a business relationship - services were provided for a fee. Comlimenting any vendor helps that vendor success, which drives more classified thread sales.
I just thought everyone should be aware that the entire IAP team has sacraficed their ability to comment on vendor products in order to make rules they believe will make a better IAP.
Not only do the give a lot, they give up a lot - Kudos to the team!
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Several of my friends have pointed out that I can say what I wish, I just have to be careful about not saying "Exotics".
I really have not, apparently, read the rules thoroughly enough. I will abide by them---and I will make a better effort to KNOW what is there. Thanks specifically to Curtis for the answer above and to Dawn for sticking the page of rules in my face!!!
I really have not, apparently, read the rules thoroughly enough. I will abide by them---and I will make a better effort to KNOW what is there. Thanks specifically to Curtis for the answer above and to Dawn for sticking the page of rules in my face!!!
Haynie
Member
Wow. Whatever did people do with their time before the internet? Yes I read the entire post but from an academic stand point. I have always been interested in how people interact. There is a nice, interesting cross section of people here.
Is this Jeff guy married, have a family, a significant other, a life partner (Who am I to judge)? If so I think the IAP owes them a nice dinner out. Not a nice pen. Something outside the scope of the forum.
Is this Jeff guy married, have a family, a significant other, a life partner (Who am I to judge)? If so I think the IAP owes them a nice dinner out. Not a nice pen. Something outside the scope of the forum.
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Did you not see Jeff's post? There will NOT be any membership. It is against his philosophy as to how the site is ran. Remember, this site is his house and you can go by his rules or go visit someone else if you don't like his rules.
This is not directed at anyone in particular:
As for the money, again, that is none of anyone's business except Jeff's. When you are invited over to a friends house for a party and they tell you to bring chips and beer to help with the cost of the party, do you question what that friend does with the leftover beer and chips? Oh yeah, you just happen to own a convenience store and you are also going to be allowed to sell chips and beer at the party so now you are upset because you are asked to donate some chips and beer?
This is not directed at anyone in particular:
As for the money, again, that is none of anyone's business except Jeff's. When you are invited over to a friends house for a party and they tell you to bring chips and beer to help with the cost of the party, do you question what that friend does with the leftover beer and chips? Oh yeah, you just happen to own a convenience store and you are also going to be allowed to sell chips and beer at the party so now you are upset because you are asked to donate some chips and beer?
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Except that Jeff is the boss and can do whatever the heck he wants and the mods and managers do not have any financial interest or see any financial gain from IAP. Actually, as mods, all we really get are flames and griping for simple things such as moving a thread from one forum to another!
Jeff would be allowed to freely comment in the vendor cheers and jeers forum about the product - that's the reason that forum was created...
A place for everything, and everything in it's place...
A place for everything, and everything in it's place...
Curtis, I think we should have a 'Mod for a Day' promotion, so people can see what fun it is! We'd have to clear out room in the Moderator Mansion in Oahu, however, and put all of the gold plated dishes in the game room to make room...
Nah, forget it - I like the game room the way it is! :biggrin:
Nah, forget it - I like the game room the way it is! :biggrin:
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Andrew, you may have come up with a good idea for punishment for repeat offenders...make them be a moderator for a day!
As a member of this forum I beleive all members have the right to know how these funds collected for the classified ads are used , this is a non profit forum.... I have no problem in following the rules. But as we know all orginzations have to let its members know where the money is. how it is being used and so forth.
This is a great place to learn , to make freinds , to meet and talk with like minded folk, to share things that we have and I sure do hate to see it turn into any thing else I will hate to see members leave...................Curtis it is our busines where and how the funds are used.........
This is a great place to learn , to make freinds , to meet and talk with like minded folk, to share things that we have and I sure do hate to see it turn into any thing else I will hate to see members leave...................Curtis it is our busines where and how the funds are used.........
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
Be careful with those gold dishes.. you know how they always make
divots in the foosball players heads and the Hand And Foot Staff has to
hand carve new ones And you know how the dancing girls love the mods
who play foosball in the Mansion. Just put the dishes over by the
"Whack-A-Post" game and they'll be fine.
alphageek
Former Moderator
This has been asked and answered - It is NOT any members business. IAP is NOT a non-profit. Jeff is the sole owner of the IAP. Check out the links at the bottom of the page. Calling something an organization does not make it a non-profit.
SCR0LL3R
Member
Of course if Jeff wanted to make a few bucks, that's certainly within his rights... but I don't think that's what he is going for. So that being the case, these are my thoughts on the matter.
At first we were led to believe this was to cover the costs of running the site because donations weren't covering it. But now it has been made clear it is for special events and the to protect the long term survivability of the website... I am sure a clever fundraiser would generate an increase in donations if you think it necessary to have a little more in the forum's bank account. And wouldn't it be better for people who want to participate in a special event to foot the bill for said event rather than the ones buying from the classifieds. (The small vendors are going to pass that cost directly to the buyer and maybe the big ones will as well.)
I dunno, I think the prices for ads are rather high (especially $10) and now I see it's not even really to maintain the site which I think is fine in it's current state.
Wouldn't having only the premium classifieds and lowering the fee to $5 be enough? That would simplify things, it would provide revenue for the site, be a little more cost effective for buyers and sellers and it would still force people to group more into 1 single thread. Also, allowing more photos if they are hosted off site would save on bandwidth too.
At first we were led to believe this was to cover the costs of running the site because donations weren't covering it. But now it has been made clear it is for special events and the to protect the long term survivability of the website... I am sure a clever fundraiser would generate an increase in donations if you think it necessary to have a little more in the forum's bank account. And wouldn't it be better for people who want to participate in a special event to foot the bill for said event rather than the ones buying from the classifieds. (The small vendors are going to pass that cost directly to the buyer and maybe the big ones will as well.)
I dunno, I think the prices for ads are rather high (especially $10) and now I see it's not even really to maintain the site which I think is fine in it's current state.
Wouldn't having only the premium classifieds and lowering the fee to $5 be enough? That would simplify things, it would provide revenue for the site, be a little more cost effective for buyers and sellers and it would still force people to group more into 1 single thread. Also, allowing more photos if they are hosted off site would save on bandwidth too.
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
If I understand it, this rule was a direct result of someone doing a
Bait & Switch (offering a premium product and providing an inferior one,
then changing the photos off-site to reflect the product that was shipped)
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
alphageek
Former Moderator
There is also another, entirely simpler answer. There is a desire to keep photos to under a specific size for a couple of valid reasons. By requiring those photos be done on IAP, the photos must be inside the right specs so that is one less item for the moderators to have to manage because the software does it for them.
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