Cambridge in Lapis M3

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yaroslaw

yaroslaw

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Joined
Sep 1, 2012
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Location
Kyiv, Ukraine
There was a time that I was wondering, what is so special in M3 that it is so expensive. Now I know:)

Mike told a good story about production of this material and why it is expensive in production here, and it DOES help to sale them:)

And actually, this material looks much better in hands then on a foto.
Anyway, one of the pens I made from M3 and that was grabbed instantly by my retailer.
 

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Nice looking pen you have there. I agree. I really like the M3 product line. It's nice stuff and even more so now that I have a carbide tool. It's possible to turn it with HSS but it's a lot of trips to the grinder!
 
jyreene said:
It's possible to turn it with HSS but it's a lot of trips to the grinder!
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Sorry, I would advise you not to do that - going to grinder, except you use 4000 japanese waterstone on Tormek. You are doing something wrong (like scraping with a flat-lying skew), or you have extremely bad steel on your tool.

I use most of the time extremely sharp NON-HSS carbon steel skew (made in England in mid-70th) and it's my favorite tool, except for trustone. I go to grinder very-very rare. But I take 10sec to hone the edge of a tool with a stone, every time I feel that skew is loosing it sharpness (may be every 5 minutes or every pen barrel, depends on material). Honed edge lasts much-much longer than one straight after grinder. And yes, you can shave with my skew:)))

I will pinpoint once more - I love how M3 drills and turns, and it takes me less time to finish pen with M3 than any other material tried, wood, acrylics, trustone or other composites.
 
About carbide tools - I do not know how to sharpen fast enough carbide tools, and they will not ever be razor-sharp, and they ARE dulling with a use, you SHOULD sharpen them too, if you do a lot of pens. That "eversharp" thing from manufacturers is just nonsense. Yes, they stay sharp longer, but it takes much more effort to keep them razor-sharp than carbon steel. And razor-sharp tools just plain outperforms simply sharp tools a lot!
 
Well, that's a bit different than before
... At least overpriced, at last - boring.

I do not understand M3 price, I do not understand M3 marketing idea. ...
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I thinking those of us that really like M3 have a new convert. :biggrin:

I've been thinking I'd like to try the lapis, and now that I see it on a pen, I really want to. That's nice!
 
yaroslaw said:
About carbide tools - I do not know how to sharpen fast enough carbide tools, and they will not ever be razor-sharp, and they ARE dulling with a use, you SHOULD sharpen them too, if you do a lot of pens. That "eversharp" thing from manufacturers is just nonsense. Yes, they stay sharp longer, but it takes much more effort to keep them razor-sharp than carbon steel. And razor-sharp tools just plain outperforms simply sharp tools a lot!
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Perhaps once you understand and try carbide tools, your opinion may change as it has with your M3 tryout.

Simply gorgeous pen that you have created there.
 
wood-of-1kind said:
Perhaps once you understand and try carbide tools, your opinion may change as it has with your M3 tryout.

Simply gorgeous pen that you have created there.
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Eh... Wrote long response and browser crashed...
Thanks for compliment.

Long story short - I have carbide tools which I made from metalworking tools for $2 each. No need to pay $70, actually. They DO NEED to be sharpen from time to time. It's hard to sharpen them. I've tried both carbide scraper (all carbide tools are scrapers?) and non-hss skew and prefer skew on M3 and carbide tool on TruStone. I've got my skew from a friend that bought it on Ebay for something like $15, and it is best tool in my workshop for wood, acrylics and M3. I make my skew razor-sharp (you really can shave with it) in less then 10 seconds, every 5 minutes or so. I will not use it on Trustone, as after it it needs regrinding, which eats nice steel on good tool.

Once again - it takes me less time to make M3 pen using skew than any other material (wood, acrylics or composites) that I've tried. There is absolutely no need to use carbide tools with M3 except you do not know how/afraid of using skew. And skew is really easy tool, after turning for few months, I've had no blowouts/catches for last half a year, after I've understood it.

From the efforts point - M3 is easy to create expensive looking pen. It needs some investments, but less effort leads to more money, that can be very helpful from commercial point of view (if you turn for selling).
 
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Oh, and I do not have HSS tools. From what I know they are not the best for woodworking (nobody is using HSS in hand chisels, isn't it?) and the only reason to use them is easier grinding, which I avoid, hand honing tools with a fine stones (which gives much nicer and sharper edge than any grinder). I'd like to invest in Tormek someday, though. I'd like to try good HSS skew if I've had one... But after I've got my current English skew (if I correctly remember, it's Marvell) I think that I have perfect instrument for most needs:)
 
Yaro,

Carbide works very well on M3 as been mentioned by many of our members here. You can concentrate on turning rather that to stop and sharpen with traditional tools. Some do not have success since they are not purchasing well made carbide turning tools or are simply making their own poorly engineered home made amateurish designs.

As far as sharpening carbide inserts, this is another mistake made by the masses. These carbide inserts are made to be DISPOSABLE after extended use. When you try to re sharpen the inserts then you will never attain the results that you get from a 'fresh' factory sharpened one. Hope this helps but once again the focus of this thread should be the wonderful pen that you have made from M3. It is a work of art and can see why your retailer snapped it up. I am certain that it will sell for a very good price.
 
I have several carbide tools - from homemade (not by me but someone who actually does know what they are doing) to ones that are upwards of $150 when you add a handle. There are definite differences. Can I turn with the homemade one? Sure, and for some things it works very well. To say that it's the same to make one as to buy a quality tool like a Sorby or EWT, just is not the case.

It wasn't too long ago that you were saying similar toned comments about M3 - until you tried it. You might think about holding of pre-judging of materials, tools, etc. until you try them for yourself.

Just FYI, I have and use several skews too... but for M3 I prefer carbide with a R2 insert.
 
I think you are missing my point - M3 is PERFECTLY doable with a good skew, you DO NOT HAVE TO buy pretty expensive carbide tools with a lot of inserts. With a skew I make M3 pen faster than wooden. I do not say that carbide is worse (may be better) - but it isn't a necessity.
Trustone, for example - is really hard to do with a steel, carbide is much better for those.

And I'm writing this to those, that DO NOT HAVE CARBIDE TOOLS, but are willing to try M3.

Buying new inserts... is like a buying new drill bits every time they get dull. It depends on quantity and light/heavy usage. Carbide tools and inserts are common in metalworking industry for a long time now, that type that we use as woodworkers - too. I can make a handle for those inserts in, say, 1hr - and I prefer that way. Cause I will learn something new from that.

I make purchases from US retailers once in 2-3 month, big orders. If in the middle I will run out of inserts - it would be disaster with International shipping rates and delivery time. I'm thinking about purchasing those tools for Trustone, but still I'm thinking, buying a tool or just a pack of inserts, or buying metal-working inserts locally and making a holder for it (as I can buy new just every day). It's like buying a handle for a woodturning chisel - why, if I can make one better suited for my needs?

PS As for a skew - I have several modern (no-brands), but all of them sucks in comparison with this Marvell tool. They are just different in all ways.

PS2 take a 20x loop and look closely on your cutting edges on all your tools after some usage, especially carbide after trustone - you will see something new, possibly:)

PS3 let's close discussion on carbide tools, ok?:)
 
I don't usually comment on SOYP. That said, I absolutely love what you've done here.

Many years back, when I first got into pen turning, I purchased an emperor rollerball and FP. I haven't made them because I haven't found the right blanks. Your photo shows me what I need to make.

A very beautiful pen.
 
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