CA finish and heat/humidity

[Hippie3180]

Does anyone seem to have issues with their ca finish when it's hot and humid? I've been dealing with issues like it just doesn't want to spread/move well, getting spiral type lines etc. Our dew point is 65 degrees today, just standing out in my space turning I'm dripping…not even doing much. Does this affect ca?

 

[egnald]

Humidity definitely affects CA. Cyanoacrylate is very reactive and requires stabilizers to remain liquid. It cures when the small amount of moisture on the surface of parts deactivate the stabilizers and allow the material to polymerize. The more humidity, the harder it is for the stabilizer to do its job so the CA cures faster. Temperature also has an impact on CA, it cures faster at elevated temperatures. So hot and humid is a double whammy. One of the tell tale symptoms is that the curing reaction happens too fast which causes an exothermic reaction which results in blooming (a cloudy appearance).

Amines can also cause CA to polymerize. They are organic compounds that are derived from ammonia and are often components of CA accelerators or activators.

Regards,
Dave

 

[mark james]

YES. Humidity is not the best for CA finishes. In my experience, it will speed up the curing, which may not be what you want.

 

[Hippie3180]

Humidity definitely affects CA. Cyanoacrylate is very reactive and requires stabilizers to remain liquid. It cures when the small amount of moisture on the surface of parts deactivate the stabilizers and allow the material to polymerize. The more humidity, the harder it is for the stabilizer to do its job so the CA cures faster. Temperature also has an impact on CA, it cures faster at elevated temperatures. So hot and humid is a double whammy. One of the tell tale symptoms is that the curing reaction happens too fast which causes an exothermic reaction which results in blooming (a cloudy appearance).

Amines can also cause CA to polymerize. They are organic compounds that are derived from ammonia and are often components of CA accelerators or activators.

Regards, Dave

This makes sense, my applicator was super hot, so hot I could feel it through to my glove. Seemed more warm than usual. The temp was in the 90's and the humidity was like 40% with a 65 degree dew point, so pretty moist. We've (my husband and I ) have noticed the ca has been pretty finicky lately, resulting in sanding things back down and trying again, but we've been super hot (as in 110 recently) with humidity as well. So, I think this correlates to the issues we're having.

 

[Hippie3180]

YES. Humidity is not the best for CA finishes. In my experience, it will speed up the curing, which may not be what you want.

I think this is spot on, I'm pretty sure that's why our finishing has been so finicky as of late, we had extreme heat, plus lots of evening rain/thunderstorms, making for hot and humid.

 

[leehljp]

I agree with each of the comments on temp and humidity and their effect on CA, but there is a way to overcome the climatic changes. My personality disorder requires me find out why something is doing what it does, or how to get around it. That drives me to stop my pen making or woodworking at the moment and work on the "problem" and make it an "adventure" to solve. "Solving" the problem for me is just experience that helps down the road.

Really, I do that. So, cool & humid, cool & dry, hot & dry, hot & humid - I just make minor adjustments the same way most of us do when driving changes from dry to rain, or from dry or wet to snow. Most of us make mental changes and adapt to these changes in driving situations.

IF we take the time to "play" with CA characteristics in the different climatic situations, it is not hard to achieve a good finish regardless.

Trying to make it work (CA finish in changing situations) so that we can finish the pen - usually complicates the situation and ends in frustration. It helps when we take advantage of the situation and put the pen aside and "play"with a few pieces of wood blanks until we have a good handle on the CA characteristics in that environment. VERY Helpful!

 

[derekdd]

I keep a dehumidifier running year round in my garage/shop due to this and the fact I have a ton of wood on shelves I try to keep dry.

Humidity up here can get pretty high.

 

[Jans husband]

Try putting the bottle of CA into a pot of cold water for a few minutes before opening it for use.
This lowers the temperature of the CA
It works for me
Mike

 

[Mike]

Is the thickness of the CA a factor? Does thin or thick do better in heat and/or humidity?

Mike

 

[egnald]

Is the thickness of the CA a factor? Does thin or thick do better in heat and/or humidity?

Mike

I don't know for sure. Most cyanoacrylates have a very low viscosity by nature. They are made thicker by adding a filler made up of soluble acrylic polymers that do not contain any polymerization initiators. It would surprise me if the thickening agent would have a significant impact one way or another as related to heat and humidity, but I really don't know for sure.

Regards,
Dave

PS Care must be taken when cooling cyanoacrylates, or rather when using cooled CA, especially in a high humidity environment as water vapor (humidity) condenses faster on cooler materials. Most information related to refrigerating CA (to extend shelf life) also includes warnings about keeping the container tightly sealed while the product comes up to ambient temperature. This is to prevent humidity from condensing inside the container.

 

[leehljp]

Is the thickness of the CA a factor? Does thin or thick do better in heat and/or humidity?

Mike

Thick does take longer to set and cure in cooler temps below 70° to 75°F . IF one is patient, then waiting 10 to 20 minutes or longer for it to "cure" in non-normal situations really helps. Sometimes it may take longer. How do you know or tell? - if a fingerprint impression is seen, if a finger nail can dent it, then it has not cured. Thin will cure faster of course. For me personally, I do use medium quite often, and rarely use thick on pens anymore.

Spritzing with accelerator may help and some do use it. But on thick, it is iffy by experience, personal technique, climate and sometimes brand. To me, thick is more prone to white spots in cooler weather. I do use it on duck calls and small bowls.

 

[Mike]

Thanks Dave and Hank, good points. I use Don's BLO/CA method and I use medium Starbond. I then dry sand with MM and then polish with the Beall system using Tripoli, white diamond and carnauba. Have had no issues with bubbling, etc. except when I tried another method that involved using accelerator.

Mike