C/A Tolerance

[Chasboy1]

Hi Folks, I was wondering if anyone has experienced a reduction in tolerance to C/A glue, in particular in one's eyes. I got a proper vapor mask and that has solved that issue but in gluing up 6 barrels today my eyes became irritated by the 4th one. Should I switch to 2 part epoxy?
Thanks!

 

[Ironwood]

Yes, I have seen a lot of people mention that they have become sensitised to CA.
And yes, you should change to 2 part epoxy.

 

[magpens]

I totally agree with Brad ...... use epoxy for gluing brass tubes into barrels.

 

[qquake]

In my opinion, two-part epoxy is a much better and forgiving alternative to CA. Back in 1999, when I first started turning pens, I used CA. But after a couple of tubes got the dreaded "grab", I switched to epoxy and that's all I've used since. It has an odor, that may be unpleasant to some (my son hates the smell of epoxy), but no toxic fumes. I normally use 5 minute epoxy for one or two pens, but for the odd times I need to glue up more, I'll switch to 15 or 30 minute. Plus you can color epoxy if needed for acrylic blanks with artist paint (50 cents a bottle at Walmart). Can't color CA that I know of. If you're in a hurry, I've started turning a pen in 10 minutes before with no failures, but I recommend waiting at least a half hour. Epoxy is more forgiving, no fumes, and gives you all the working time you need. Oh, and it won't glue your fingers to your face. I see no reason to use CA for gluing tubes.

 

[qquake]

Also, I have used many different brands of epoxy over the years, for both pen turning and rocket building. The only one I've ever had a problem with was Great Planes brand. Twice I've had entire bottles turn hard, before being mixed. I've got some Bob Smith (BSI) 15 minute epoxy that is at least 10 years old. No problems with it. My current favorite, though, is Stick Fast. I like the tips.

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[leehljp]

Yes, tolerance most often is reduced over time, and for many it comes on suddenly. It did for me. 2 1/2 years of pen making with CA and then suddenly wham. It hit me hard. I installed a DC system, started wearing a quality respirator, not just a face mask, and goggles. I tried getting around CA finishes by trying Lacquer, polyurethane and others; but they took too long.

For you, it is your eyes; for me it was my sinuses and once I had double vision for a day. The sinuses made me feel like I had the flu and it lasted for 3 days.

Treat the allergy with respect.

 

[Bats]

Oh, and it won't glue your fingers to your face.

In other words, forget the epoxy, it's no fun at all.

On a more related note, the pen I'm in the middle of finishing has been burning my eyes and nose like crazy... but my nose had been running and eyes had been watering before I even opened the CA, so I'm not ready to give up on using it quite yet. It may be time to take another look at those positive air pressure face shields that I can't possibly afford, though.

 

[qquake]

Sorry, I was thinking about gluing tubes, not using CA for a finish. I have no solution for that, other than a full face respirator, or maybe a PAPR.

 

[Bats]

Sorry, I was thinking about gluing tubes, not using CA for a finish. I have no solution for that, other than a full face respirator, or maybe a PAPR.

Well, I think I figured out my problem as soon as I went back into the shop. My wood lathe & CNC are located under a low-hanging storage loft, and I have plastic sheeting fastened around the edges (with a gap under the air scrubber intake) to contain the mess when machining things like MDF (which loves to spew massive clouds of dust) or if I'm doing extensive sanding on the lathe - the rest of the time it's usually tucked up out of the way. Well, apparently I was doing something messy recently, so I had the plastic down, and, air scrubber or no air scrubber, was boxing the fumes in with me.

Oops.

So, I can put off the heavy hazmat gear purchases for just a little longer. Now if I could just figure out why the CA only seems to be adhering to the mesquite in patches (or rather, why there are patches, sort of following the figure, that seem completely free of CA).

Also, I'll second the Bob Smith recommendation - they're my go-to brand for epoxies and CA both (and still the only CA brand I've found in the big 8oz bottles).

 

[Curly]

With all chemicals you can request the Safety Data sheets. They will tell you what chemicals are in them that may be harmful and what precautions you should be taking. Epoxy may not seem like it is bad because it may or may not smell but many are. Find out when you are considering a product as it may be hazardous and you should take precautions from the git go.

Chasboy1 your body is telling you to mask up with a full face respirator or to switch to something else but follow the instructions in the Safety Data sheets. Ventilation is always a good addition to the full face mask.

 

[jbg230]

Hi there in Morristown! Got married in the Madison Hotel and used to live nearby in Long Valley. Great spot!

I agree with others that you should switch. Your eyes will not "build up a tolerance". I switched to a 2-part epoxy several months ago and wonder why I was taught to use CA for the tubes in the first place. Gluing tubes is so much better with epoxy. I do, at times, use CA for finishing however. I have a dust collection hood (sold by PSI) that sits right in back of the turning blank and takes care of any eye discomfort during the finishing process though. I know the difference because when my wife is sleeping and I don't use the dust collector when applying CA, my eyes start tearing for more reasons than just the fumes! So some negative pressure, pulling those fumes away from your eyes is something to consider. Even a 1 HP dedicated unit just for the lathe may make sense. If not this, then yes...a full respirator mask.
I hope you find the right solution for you.

 

[dogcatcher]

The odorless stuff is no better than the ones with odor. The fumes are still there, you just cannot smell them. Basically they use the same chemicals, it is the chemicals not the smell.

 

[wouldentu2?]

12 years ago I had those sinus reactions to regular CA. I tried the Bob Smith odorless CA and never had another problem. I CA finish 100+ pens a year. For gluing tubes I use Epoxy or Gorilla Polyurethane.

I have tried the dipping method with Polyurethane or Lacquer, when placed next to the CA pen it was tough to tell the difference. It does take longer for that method.

 

[greenacres2]

I like the Bob Smith glues, but find that using them for finishing is harsh to me. Still using for tubes and fills, but for finishing Glu-Boost seems to have no irritation for me.
I've had a full face respirator (3M) since i started this, but it's hot, heavy and awkward. A few months back i bought a used Racal AirMate system (PAPR with Hepa filter) from a guy, added a new battery and find that much more comfortable and that i actually use it for sanding bowls & spindles. And...since the big lathe is in the garage, i even use it on hot days for turning--just to get the cool air flow. Now that i've learned how comfortable it can be, i'm back to considering the Versaflo--but i'd have to find an exceptional price to make it possible!!
earl

 

[Chasboy1]

Thank you all, I misstated in my post. I do have a full face respirator.

 

[Bats]

I like the Bob Smith glues, but find that using them for finishing is harsh to me. Still using for tubes and fills, but for finishing Glu-Boost seems to have no irritation for me.

I haven't tried the BSI odorless ("Gold") series, but I've had widely varying results with the regular ("Stinky") versions depending on how I'm using them. Gluing tubes doesn't bother me at all (except on the rare occasion when one seizes up - then it bothers me. but not the fumes), and I can usually (but not always) finish with the thin without issue, but if I use the medium for finishing I get that old familiar eye burn.

Some of it also depends on how I'm finishing. When I used to just wipe the CA on with a (blue) paper towel, it would often react with the paper towel, smoke, and the fumes would burn like hell. Since switching to the BLO-on-paper-towel/CA-on-BLO/rub-vigorously-on-pen method I've had almost no trouble with the thin (except when I stupidly seal myself in an enclosed fume chamber, because did I mention "stupid"?) - but the medium, as mentioned, still irritates when it kicks off.

I still haven't tried Glu-Boost - the price keeps scaring me off. I know I've seen reports that it takes a lot less, but that's only good until I over-turn a pen and need to build up a few thou with finish (which happens with disturbing regularity, because I suck) - then it gets expensive again. And I'm poor. Especially after blowing too much money on blanks. Oops.

 

[Chasboy1]

Thanks everyone. I do mostly acrylics, but when I make a wood pen I have used CA and it's fine, but my woodworking background keeps telling me to go back to other methods.
However I was wondering if epoxy can be used as a finish?

 

[Bats]

However I was wondering if epoxy can be used as a finish?

@Bob in SF has done at least a couple experiments with UV-cure epoxy resins.

I imagine it might also be possible to use a low viscosity/slow-setting epoxy (maybe something like WEST System?) with a slow rotisserie while it's setting, similar to what people have used for poly finishes - but that's pure conjecture on my part, never having tried anything similar.

 

[Bob in SF]

@Bob in SF has done at least a couple experiments with UV-cure epoxy resins.

I imagine it might also be possible to use a low viscosity/slow-setting epoxy (maybe something like WEST System?) with a slow rotisserie while it's setting, similar to what people have used for poly finishes - but that's pure conjecture on my part, never having tried anything similar.

Try it - you'll like it!

 

[mikespenturningz]

Hi Folks, I was wondering if anyone has experienced a reduction in tolerance to C/A glue, in particular in one's eyes. I got a proper vapor mask and that has solved that issue but in gluing up 6 barrels today my eyes became irritated by the 4th one. Should I switch to 2 part epoxy?
Thanks!

I no longer finish pens with CA unless I absolutely have to. That stuff is toxic when it cures..

 

[Dave Dogge]

Dunno about 'pens' but I come from a warhammer miniatures place and here is my glue alergy and alternatives solution:

After 3 years of using an acetone based plastic glue (Tamiya Extra Thin Cement) and CA SuperGlue (Bob Smith Industires Insta Cure+), I developed an allegery to both of them roughly at the same time with couging the next day and runny nose sometimes and the occasional sneezing, flu like symptoms essentially. You can feel the irritation in the lungs. If I don't use them and days pass then the symptons go away. I tried a full face mask 3M 6800, big ventilation fans right next to me with their own floor stands and 3M 6098 filters which are meant to filter out organic acids such as acetone but still somehow the vapors affected me (less than before) if say the mask was not fitted perfectly or I walked past the hobby area without a mask after I had been gluing just before.

So I discovered "LESS" toxic alternatives ... for the plastic glue, I used less toxic "Tamiya Limonene" which is a natural citric acid (orange peel concentrate) which works really well on warhammer grey plastics, it doesn't affect me and only takes 20% longer to melt the plastic compared to acetone glues which kill me.

As a replacement for CA glue, I used Bob Smith Industries 5 min Quik Cure Epoxy, it's a two part epoxy glue, far less toxic that CA SuperGlue and the 5 min version can be used on FineCast (not the 15/30 miin versions I think). You have to mix it which is painful but it bonds stronger than superglue, and is liquid enough to say stick magnets in tiny holes on plastic Warhammer miniatures. So epoxy glue is great as a less toxic alternative to CA Superglue. Also u have to be better organized and fast with epoxy as it has a 5 minute work time and in 15 minutes it gets hard and then in one hour it is fully hardened.