Buffing systems

[Dan Masshardt]

As anybody made a direct comparison between the beall buffing system and Barry gross's 2 wheel acrylic pen buffing setup?

Do you find that one works substantially better than the other?

I realize that there are some differences - the beall system is for larger wood pieces probably primarily but other stuff maybe as well.

Have you gotten a better finish with the gross system then using the beall tripoli and while diamond on resins, ca and stabilized wood?

 

[ed4copies]

I am not going to ANSWER your question, Dan. But I can give some objective input.

Compare the "grit" value of the final step. Your eye will perceive the surface as "shinier" if the grit is finer, thereby producing finer scratches.

I am assuming they both use the same quality of "rag" on their system and both are the same diameter, spinning at the same speed. Any or all or these assumptions could be incorrect and could easily effect the outcome.

But "my pen is shinier than yours" is not at all objective and will vary based on visual acuity and the material being polished.

 

[TonyL]

I have Barry's and loved it. Then I started using my own approach and stopped using it. I may use in the future again. It seems like the one (Beal's) that holds the diamond dust (3 wheels) is more popular. Again, I loved Barry's, but haven't had the need. I am also stiil only into this 90 days - so what do I know?

 

[Ice31]

I have the Beal and I love it. Have it mounted on my delta midi right on my assembly bench...I love the three step system, but it does take a little research on what each block does and how much of what to use.

 

[Swagopenturner]

Dan,
I've got both. I use the two-wheel Barry Gross for acrylics and Tru-Stone, and the three-wheel for all wood projects. So I guess I can't really compare them as I use each for different projects. They both work extremely well IMHO. Sure save me from having to buff by hand!

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Dan, I've got both. I use the two-wheel Barry Gross for acrylics and Tru-Stone, and the three-wheel for all wood projects. So I guess I can't really compare them as I use each for different projects. They both work extremely well IMHO. Sure save me from having to buff by hand!

You've never tried the beall for acrylics?

I have the beall. What I'm wondering is it it's worth getting the gross one as well.

 

[TonyL]

Dan...PM me your address and I will send you mine. Try it out and return when done.

 

[southernclay]

That's cool Tony

Dan I'd love to see what you come across, I haven't done any buffing yet. I heard someone say they had good results with one of the harbor freight buffers with upgrading wheels. I kind of like the idea of a dedicated buffing station without spending the money on an extra lathe. At the same time I wouldn't mind having a few extra lathes because I'm a hoarder:biggrin:

 

[bjbear76]

Dan, definitely post your findings. I too have the Beall and have been debating about getting Barry's system. I'm leaning toward using the Beall for wood and Barry's for acrylics, but looking for justification before spending the extra bucks.

 

[raar25]

I use the Barry Gross on everything that has a hard finish, CA, Acrylic, Tru Stone, M3 Macume and Lacquer and it is great.

 

[avbill]

i would reread ED Brown's note. Company A's white diamond will be different than company's B. So the grit of the compound is a variable. The second variable is the disc you are using. I use 5 different 8" disc. when i'm finishing my pen blanks.

i buy everything separately from Caswell Buffing & Polishing Supplies - Caswell Inc

 

[Rick_G]

Looks to me like both systems either tie up your lathe or you need a second one. I bought a new 8" variable speed grinder for sharpening my tools and the 6" one I've had for over 20 years was just sitting there. I bought a couple of nice soft buffing wheels locally and the beall buffing compounds from Lee Valley. Works great for pens and other small items and made use of an old grinder that was just sitting around doing nothing.

 

[Charlie_W]

Hi Dan,
A while back, there was a thread regarding buffing and the grades of rouge. Don't remember who had started the thread but you might want to look at which rouge would be finer...the White diamond or the blue which Barry sells.

I have both, have not tried acrylics on the Beall. I do however feel that with the Beall three wheel system, I would like to have another clean wheel to follow up with after the carnauba wax. I usually hand buff with a piece of flannel or t-shirt material to finish up.

 

[Charlie_W]

Dan, I found this on Caswell's site.

http://www.caswellcanada.ca/shop/userfiles/buffing booklet(1).pdf

It tells about different compounds, a description of each and what it is best for.

Hope this helps!

 

[Dan Masshardt]

I'll let you know what I find. Normally I'm pretty happy with the candy shell glow I get polishing right on the lathe.

However stubborn scratches on black for me sometimes only go away on the buffing wheels.

I don't use wax wheel on acrylics though.

We'll see...

 

[beck3906]

I use the Beall system with two wheels only. Spaced the wheels a bit further apart to get the pen body in the right position.

One thing to think about is the diameter of the wheels. Larger diameter wheels effectively give me more buffing ability for each single rotation of the wheel.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

I understand grits and wheel sizes and all that but the person holding and buying the pen doesn't. Nor do I really at the end of the day.

Also I think different compounds and different materials might have different effect beyond grit.

Besides ease of use all I care about is the end result.

So I'll buff one barrel in the beall on and other on the gross.

And compare,,,

 

[ed4copies]

Pass both pieces around a room full of penturners and have them "vote" on a piece of paper (secret ballot). I will be AMAZED if you have one clear winner.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Pass both pieces around a room full of penturners and have them "vote" on a piece of paper (secret ballot). I will be AMAZED if you have one clear winner.

We, we've come to a complete consensus about ca method so there's hope.

Haha.

If I can't tell any difference I'll keep what I've got.

Rember, if you're turning mainly for your own enjoyment, the only persons opinion that matters is your own.

 

[Carl Fisher]

I use the 2 wheel system from Barry. I picked it up from him at a show a few years back and never looked back. I haven't tried any other buffing rouge besides the blue but then again I've never felt I had the need.

Of course that said I do have to wonder if I can eliminate the Novus 3 step and use the Beall 3-wheel to get a more course first step on the buffer.

 

[JasonC]

I'll let you know what I find. Normally I'm pretty happy with the candy shell glow I get polishing right on the lathe.

However stubborn scratches on black for me sometimes only go away on the buffing wheels.

I don't use wax wheel on acrylics though.

We'll see...

Can you define "Stubborn scratches"

I currently wet sand, use micro mesh followed by HUT plastic polish (haven't decided I need a buffer) and I don't have scratches on solid black at 600 grit. Granted, there are very fine ones from 600 but they are worked out as I progress through MM.

I've debated a buffer but it's one of those things where I'd have to see a solid improvement in appearance from the finish I'm getting with my current process and buffing on a wheel.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Can you define "Stubborn scratches" I currently wet sand, use micro mesh followed by HUT plastic polish (haven't decided I need a buffer) and I don't have scratches on solid black at 600 grit. Granted, there are very fine ones from 600 but they are worked out as I progress through MM. I've debated a buffer but it's one of those things where I'd have to see a solid improvement in appearance from the finish I'm getting with my current process and buffing on a wheel.

I don't use the wheels either for 95% of pens.

I'll be interested to see what the Barry gross wheels do.

 

[KenV]

You will need some magnification to see the differences -- at 10X or higher I can see the differences between the different buffing materials. I can also see the differences between different kinds of wheels (flannel vs cotton, and loose vs sewn) with magnification. You will quicky become a fan of flannel wheels for finer outcomes.

The question about the difference making a practical difference is still open........

P.S. One of the better threads on the topic and some debates between a couple of strong opinioned well experienced guys was a few years back --

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/buffing-kicked-up-notch-55476/

 

[Ted iin Michigan]

This has been a really good thread to follow (thanks, Dan) 'cause folk who purchase and or use our pens don't have much to gauge the quality of the pen other than its appearance and the finish is a huge component of that. Probably why we struggle so much to "get it right/perfect".

That said, I use the Beall wheels (Tripoli & white diamond only - no wax) much of the time and I am REALLY happy with the results. Nearly 100% of my pens get a high gloss finish. To get that, I usually wet sand to 2000, do Novus 3 & 2 and then hit the wheels. I find that on some acrylics the wheels don't seem necessary. But on most of my wood and on Tru-Stone, they make a discernable difference.

A potential customer at a show might not see it right off, but every once in a while a "pen person" will comment on the "good finish". It's then I know I'm doing the right thing. Plus, it's a good part of the sales conversation.

 

[JasonC]

You will need some magnification to see the differences -- at 10X or higher I can see the differences between the different buffing materials. I can also see the differences between different kinds of wheels (flannel vs cotton, and loose vs sewn) with magnification. You will quicky become a fan of flannel wheels for finer outcomes.

The question about the difference making a practical difference is still open........

P.S. One of the better threads on the topic and some debates between a couple of strong opinioned well experienced guys was a few years back --

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/buffing-kicked-up-notch-55476/

I know that for me, once I know what I'm doing has made an improvement in my work, that's my new standard and there will be no going backwards from there. I've looked into the 3-wheel Beall several times and I still don't have it.

I guess the real question is that if a customer isn't going to know - by eye without magnification - the difference between once process vs another is the added expense and time of buffing necessary?

Off to read the linked thread...

 

[Carl Fisher]

You never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression.

Buffing is one of those things that I didn't know I needed until Barry had me take one of my carry pens at a show and run it through his buffer. The difference was instantly noticeable. As I started to buff my finished pens, I could tell you immediately when looking at my storage cases which ones had been buffed and which ones had not when looking at resin and CA finished pens. Friction finish pens, the jury is still out.

 

[JasonC]

Thanks, Carl. Sounds like it's something I need to try.