Bowl Gouge Advice Needed

[gerryr]

After Christmas, I am going to try turning some bowls. Although I ahve managed to turned one semi-crude bowl quite a while ago, I still consider this to be a new experience for me. I need to get a bowl gouge and I'm looking for advise. I have a Jet Mini so I'm not going to be doing large bowls. I think I read that 3/8" is a good size for a first bowl gouge. But, I'm confused by all the options: masterflute, superflute, irish grind, fingernail grind, etc. So, what do the bowl turners recommend?

 

[Dario]

I use Crown ProPM and they hold their edge a long time. Did my research and ended with it but that was almost 3 years ago so better ones may be out now. Best of all Tangboy5000/Charles of WoodChips sells them at a very good price.

http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=WC&Category_Code=BG

Note: There are 2 sizing standards...I'll call them the British and the American. British measures theirs inside the flute while American measurements are the diameter. In essence a 1/2" American is equal 3/8" British. 3/8" British for me is a good size to start with but if I can only have one, I will opt for the 5/8".

I use mine with Ellsworth (or anything you might want to call it Irish, fingernail, etc. grind) but just bought the regular grind and re-profiled it. There is quite a price difference.

It will take a master to sharpen these without a jig so plan on either making one or buy one with the gouge.

Good luck!!!

 

[chigdon]

Fingernail grind is definately the way to go in my opinion. It is highly versatile and forgiving.

I always say go bigger on your tools. I use obsurdly oversized tools to turn pens. The larger the tool the more control you have and the less catches you will have and the less work it is to hold onto your tool. Also, you will already have the larger tool when you get hooked on bowls and buy a bigger lathe. 3/8" is a good size but you will soon want a 1/2" also.

I will throw in another plug for Glaser Tools. It might be overkill for you now if you are not sure you will turn many bowls but it is the best out there bar none. A great long term investment and easy to use and hardly ever has to be sharpened.

 

[Dario]

Glaser is indeed a great tool...would love to own one but can't afford it.

BTW, make sure you are comparing apples w/ apples when it comes to size, metal and length of flute. Some tools have only half as much flute as others so even if they are a bit cheaper they are actually more expensive (unit cost wise) in the long run.

 

[vick]

I would agree a 3/8ths is a good starter size especially for a mini. AS far as the grind you can grind it to what ever profile you want pay for steel not a specific grind.
Tangboy had great prices on Crown tools and P&N makes a very good gouge at a really good price Lee Valley and CSU both have good prices on P&N tools. AL P&N tools are sold unhandled.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Dario's post is to be taken as excellent advice. Sizes of bowl gouges can be confusing. Suggest you communicate with Charles Martin about your first purchase. You can't go wrong there. He sells quality stuff at discount prices. But using bowl gouges is very difficult. I simply haven't yet accomplished the skill. I have four bowl gouges that sit unused. If there is a woodturning club near you, join and get hands-on help. Second to that, you can get videos and watch the masters. The downside there is that they all (seem to) use green soft wood and really make the shavings fly. Most of us have only seasoned wood on hand that is worlds away in degree of difficulty from what the video guys demonstrate with. You might consider a large bowl scraper instead of a bowl gouge. Simpler to use and far more forgiving.

 

[Doghouse]

If you are having problems with the bowl gouge, change to a fingernail grind. Once you do you just have to learn to swing the handle to get the cut. Swing and roll are the only 2 things you need to do. Once you have a fingernail (or one of the 80 other names for the same thing) grind the cut is easy.

 

[gerryr]

Well, I do belong to the Yellowstone Woodturners and have even been nominated for vice-president, elections are tonight. There are some very accomplished turners in the club who make some beautiful stuff, so I think I can get plenty of help. I see that Charles has the Crown Pro-PM 1/2" Ellsworth bowl gouge for $75 which appears to be a good price. I have a Crown Pro-PM radius skew and really like it. So, that's probably what I will buy.

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by Dario
<br />
I use mine with Ellsworth (or anything you might want to call it Irish, fingernail, etc. grind) but just bought the regular grind and re-profiled it. There is quite a price difference.

There is a difference between an Ellsworth grind and an Irish grind and I went to the Ellsworth school in PA to learn it. The difference looks very subtle but makes a huge difference in use.

If I can make a suggestion I would say to get a 1/2" Ellsworth gouge and the Ellsworth jig and set it up EXACTLY as the directions tell you to. Some might say that a 3/8" gouge is all you need for a mini but I disagree. I've had a 3/8" gouge chatter while roughing a bowl on a mini lathe and I have never had a problem with the Ellsworth. I would also suggest you get your hands on the video and watch it closely as David explains and demonstrates the nuances of his grind.

 

[vick]

for $55 you can get the same tool ( I am pretty sure) and just have to change the grind. The odds are that if you are inexperienced with making a fingernail grind you will deviate from the factory grind rather quickly. The Powdered Metal can be a bear to regrind.
http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WC&Product_Code=242PMW&Category_Code=BG

The 1/2 inch crown may be a little big for a mini you may want to go down to the 3/8
http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WC&Product_Code=241PMW&Category_Code=BG

 

[dubdrvrkev]

One thing to keep in mind if you are going with a larger tool is they tend to have larger handles which tend to hit the mini's bed as you move them around. I would suggest a 3/8" for the a good starting bowl gouge. I got one from CSUSA that is a Henry Taylor and has a medium sized handle. I used it on the mini for quite some time and it worked very good. I still use it often even though I have larger gouges. But I keep different grinds on them too.

 

[alamocdc]

Originally posted by dubdrvrkev
<br />One thing to keep in mind if you are going with a larger tool is they tend to have larger handles which tend to hit the mini's bed as you move them around.

Or you can do like Eagle and whack the ends of the handles off. [:0][}][]

 

[gerryr]

I ordered the 1/2" Ellsworth gouge from Charles. The Glaser tools look really nice, but I think this is better for starting. If the handle is so long it gets in the way, I guess I'll have to take the easy way out and buy a bigger lathe.[] Or shorten it.

 

[whatwoodido]

When we teach bowl turning (have to do this tonight) we suggest a 1/2" bowl gouge. I am partial to P&N, but just find one you like and keep using it. The Benjamin's Best bowl gouges have flutes that are too shallow, and I personally think they should be avoided.

You can put an Irish/fingernail grind on any decent bowl gouge, use a Wolverine or some other jig so that you can maintain a consistant grind, this makes a remakable difference. Wing size is a personal choice, I like my wings rather compact. I was a long wing guy and found that shorter wings worked better for me. Once again find what works for you, there are plenty of pros out there and they all use slightly different grinds. Don't change your grind willy nilly, choose one and unless it really doesn't work for you stay with it until you have the basic cuts down. Then modify your grind slowly as you try to find what works for you.

If you already have a grinding jig and have access to a tool with a grind you like don't waste you money buying a tool with a fingernail grind on it already. Set your jig to mimic the grind and you can grind a regular bowl gouge to match it and save several dollars. I also recommend that you buy two bowl gouges of the same brand, it is nice to have a sharp one at hand when you are ready for the final passes without the interuption of sharpening in between.

Also you may want to consider using scrapers for much of your bowl work, you will find they work amazingly well and can allow you to make a bowl faster than a bowl gouge.

If you can take a class or find a mentor do it, it will make the learning process much easier. If these are not options buy or rent a good video.

 

[samuel07]

Also you may want to consider using scrapers for much of your bowl work, you will find they work amazingly well and can allow you to make a bowl faster than a bowl gouge.

I have also been thinking about starting to turn some bowls on my Rikon mini lathe. It sounds like in the beginning I can get away with just using a scraper? Is a 1/2" big enough?
How about a recommendation for a parting tool.

Just for fun, if you could only have three tools to use for lidded bowls what would they be?(using a mini lathe)

 

[chigdon]

I know I sound like a broken record but I have the PM Crown 1/2" bowl gouge and it is a nice tool but does not hold the edge nearly as long as the glaser. That of course means less time on the wheel which efectively makes it less expensive in the long run -- even though it is pretty pricey on the front end. Also, do not worry about a long handle -- even with a mini lathe. I turned exclusively on my mini for a long time and had tools that were twice as long as my lathe and loved them. They are much more stable which is important with a bowl.

 

[woodbutcher]

I recommend the Ellswort Signature bowl goyge from crown w/ the PM coating. Also the video and his jig for grinding as well. It is the most versatle tool I own.