Asked for a pen

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
0

08K.80

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
390
Took the little ones in for their dental check-up today. I pulled out the pen I made to fill out the paperwork and the dentist was walking past. He stopped and asked where I got the pen. I told him I made it and he was very surprised, then asked if I could make another one for him.

I have no idea what to charge for one and told him that. He said he has paid $300.00 for pens that don't look as nice. Is that a fair price or too much? I feel it is a bit high for a pen.

I told him I would get back to him.

Looking for opinions and advice.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
I'd go along the lines of 3x material costs plus or minus. Be fair though you really don't want your dentist feeling he's been overcharged :eek:
Having said that, what sort of hourly rate does he charge you? :wink:
 
seamus7227 said:
first of all, congrats! What type of pen is it?
Click to expand...

It's a Majestic Jr.
This one. IAP Home - Photos - Member Photo Albums


Kretzky said:
I'd go along the lines of 3x material costs plus or minus. Be fair though you really don't want your dentist feeling he's been overcharged :eek:
Having said that, what sort of hourly rate does he charge you? :wink:
Click to expand...

There isn't a charge for the check-up, insurance covers those thankfully.
I'm not sure what his hourly rate is.


maxwell_smart007 said:
Heck, ask him what he thinks it's worth, or trade for services next time!

Andrew
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good idea. Maybe I will try that so I know he is happy with the price. Thanks.
 
First off do not be afraid to charge him, he's not afraid to charge you, second he already said he'd pay at least $300 as he has paid that much for pens he didn't think looked as nice.
I'd tell him you were thinking along the lines of $400 but as a favor to him you'll accept $350 and you'll take it in trade for his service's (Unless you have great dental insurence that pays 100%).
 
I am definetly not with the others on this that say charge 300-400. Remember one thing You made a total of one pen so far, from what you told us. You do not know the or should I say have a track record of this pen you made.

You now are going to make another similar. Do you know if the glues used to make the first one were enough to keep the pen together?? You started out so high on the expectation level that you did not give yourself a chance to fail and learn as you progressed. I am not saying that is a bad thing but word of mouth can come back to hurt you later.

I would tell him you are just starting out and would be glad to make him a pen. Tell him he is one of your first customers and you are just getting a feel for pricing. You can ask him what he thinks he would be willing to pay or just tell him you are pricing work like this at about $200. In the future it may be worth a whole lot more.

Just an opinion. Don't go so fast you trip over your own two feet is what I am saying. Be careful.
 
As a guide try 3 x kit cost + 5 x blank costs + your time to make it. What's your time worth to you and how many hours did it take to make ?

I would price it between $170 to $220. Offer it at the higher price and if he thinks it is too high drop to a lower price (not $170 straight away) . Tell him that it's a discount price for him only.

If he sends more sales your way, you can sell the next pen at the higher price or give them a discount as well. :smile:

In the end it's what you feel comfortable with charging for a pen. Most people underprice their work and skill. I find that using a formula helps me from selling too low.

TonyO
 
switch62 said:
As a guide try 3 x kit cost + 5 x blank costs + your time to make it. What's your time worth to you and how many hours did it take to make ?

I would price it between $170 to $220. Offer it at the higher price and if he thinks it is too high drop to a lower price (not $170 straight away) . Tell him that it's a discount price for him only.

If he sends more sales your way, you can sell the next pen at the higher price or give them a discount as well. :smile:

In the end it's what you feel comfortable with charging for a pen. Most people underprice their work and skill. I find that using a formula helps me from selling too low.

TonyO
Click to expand...


Formulas they are only good for math students.


How do you know what that blank cost??? so many pieces of different materials used. Do you take 1/4 of a acrylic blank + slivers of aluminum. :smile: How do you charge a rate for your time?? Do you get overtime pay if it goes past what you thought it should??:smile: Where is the formula for the use of tools and the electricity and the use of finishing materials and on and on.

People get to about the same price as others many different ways.

You have to treat a homemade blank differently but that does not always equate to a higher price. After doing many pens of varied kits and platings you will get a feel for what the pen is worth and what catagory it falls into.
Curious as to what you finally do settle on as a good price and what his reactions were. Keep us updated.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the input.

Yes, I'm new to this hobby and I don't think I could ask $350-$400 for a pen. I have also never tried to barter for services.

I am confident that the epoxy will hold just fine. I have used it for some time now on other projects and it's always held. I have also seen other pen makers using it as well.

As for being paid for my time, I have almost two weeks in this particular pen. I don't know how many hours but, I'm sure it's more than most people put into a pen.

It looks like the number that is mentioned the most is around $200. I never would have guessed that a pen would be worth that. So I guess I will ask him what it's worth to him and go from there.
 
You pay him well because of his training, knowledge, time and equipement etc. Don't under value what you have invested in training/learning (how much value is there in the information you have gained from IAP?) skill, equipment and your time. If you are making a quality product, you should charge for it.
 
Fair

08K.80 said:
Took the little ones in for their dental check-up today. I pulled out the pen I made to fill out the paperwork and the dentist was walking past. He stopped and asked where I got the pen. I told him I made it and he was very surprised, then asked if I could make another one for him.

I have no idea what to charge for one and told him that. He said he has paid $300.00 for pens that don't look as nice. Is that a fair price or too much? I feel it is a bit high for a pen.

I told him I would get back to him.

Looking for opinions and advice.
Click to expand...
Since you have no track record I think I would not push for top dollar. What would you be willing to pay for the pen he admired? I can't say for sure, but my first guess would be it's less than $300. That price is probably a good place to start.

One small piece of advice - don't barter for his services. That might not bother you tax wise but it will bother his accountant. If he gives you money it's a personal expense that is easy to deal with. If he trades his services it becomes barter income to him and can be more bother than it's worth on taxes.
 
My policy, since I am only a hobby wood turner is the "customer" pays for the price of the materials, i.e kit and desired wood or other material. Then for my time I appreciate any donations towards my wood working shop. I tell them the extra money goes into me buying more tools, other kits to try, or other materials to turn.

I also don't like getting a lot of orders to where my hobby feels like a job.

These are my thoughts, hope it helps.

Ernie
 
Let's say you give him a "discount" of $250, when you have $100 in the pen. That could limit the amount of people in the office that may consider buying from you. Next time bring in a half dozen. From slimlines/cigars on up. He might get the one for 250, but you might pick up another sale or two with the less expensive pens.
 
I guess I'll be the odd one here, and say that I wouldn't sell it to him at all. It's just too soon. You need to see if any issues develop first. You told him you're new at this. Tell him that you want to wait a few months to put the pen through its paces to make sure no rookie mistakes come back to bite you both in the rear. When the time comes, charge what to like for his, and reassure home that any issues that might arise will be taken care of.

You're putting your reputation on the line, and it could be ruined before you get started. I got a feeling he'll still be interested in a few months, and will likely appreciate you passing up a quick buck to assure he gets a quality product for his money.
 
If you can make another as good as the first one looked, I think you're on your way to making some pretty outstanding pens, with some very interesting segmentation, regardless of how many you've previously made.

Will you encounter failures along the way? Sure you will. But don't be afraid to charge a fair price for a fine piece of craftsmanship whether it's your first or you thousandth. The important thing is to come to an agreeable price between you and your dentist and that you're both happy with the transaction in the end. Many of the answers above give you some varied guidelines that come about EVERY time someone asks this same question. What do YOU feel a pen like what you made is worth considering cost of materials and the time you spent making it?

You do want to be able to back up what you sell though, so consider that side of the equation while setting a price. The hardware set is an excellent one that has proven quality so what's left if the workmanship you've put into it in terms of the tightness of the glue joints between segments, how well the final diameter of the body matches that of the adjoining components and how good of a finish you put on the body.

Let the doc know your current experience level and level willingness to back up what you've made, then provide a quote for the pen. From a sales perspective he's given you some valuable information to start a pricing discussion. I think by the comment that he's paid $300 for what he considered a lesser pen tells you that a starting price in that range is not out of line for him.
 
I had a short meeting with my dentisit.
I took into consideration all of the advice and made sure he knew I am new to pens and this was my first one. We discussed waiting until I do a few more but, he said if this one looks this nice, he has faith that the next one will look even better and he would like the opportunity to get the first one to be sold.
I assured him that if anything was wrong with the pen, I would do what I could to fix it.
I took the pen out and handed it to him. He got a smile and I told him to try it. He signed his name a few times and his smile turned into a giggle and I could tell he liked it. He said he likes the size, weight, and especially the way it writes.
So I asked him what he would pay for a pen like this. He mentioned the pen he bought for $300.00 and isn't nearly this nice and would gladly give $300.00 for this pen if he could get it for that but, doesn't think he can.

Well, I have to make one like it in black and green.





Here is a larger picture, I will let you decide on the joints and fitting to the kit. I see things in the picture that aren't on the pen. Shadows maybe?




Majupload_zps36ad7bdf.jpg
 
Hi Kelly

I have voiced my opinion before and you seem to have a good handle on the transaction and that is a good thing that he thinks it is worth that much. This is all up to you now.

But what I would like to talk about is the context of the pen. I just don't see it. I can not figure out your approach. Maybe a little insight as to why you chose the materials you did and placed them and the size of them the way you did.

I am from the school of symetry. I like to have things balanced on the blank. To me it gives a more pleasing look. This looks like a hodgepodge of material you had left over. Please don't take offense to that statement but i had no other way to phrase it. I would be interested in your thought process. This is one of the reasons I am not a huge fan of Gisi pens either.

Please help me understand the thought process in making a blank such as this. Thanks
 
Photo is just a little out of focus for the close up, but I'm not seeing anything but good joints and body size matching up pretty good with components.

I also think substituting the the blue for a similarly swirly and bright green would look awesome!
 
John T.

I'm sorry if you don't like my pen.

My design is based on Phi or the golden ratio (1.618).
It doesn't need perfect symmetry and I know it isn't perfect to the ratio but, being my first one, I'm pretty happy.
It might seem like a hodge podge to you but, I like a more random design at times and if you look at it as a whole, rather than individual pieces, you might see the concept. Some people see it right away. This design was planned and thought out before making any cuts.
I could have made something with symmetry (and I already have plans for one) or a solid color but, that has been done. I wanted a challenge for a first, not knowing if I would make another.

I have had a lot of positive comments and now I get to make another one for someone else, for money. I never even considered selling a pen. Isn't that the important thing, the person with the money likes it and wants it?
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure I understand your creative process...or how you have applied phi to this pen.

like John T - it's not my style of pen that I would create or use. I also don't care much for the Gisi style of pen. They look "too busy" to me

but - it does look like your segments are good, the fit and finish are good - overall a good execution.

it doesn't matter what any of the rest of us think...what matters is how YOU view your work...and your customer as well. If you are happy, and they are happy - then I'm sure we'll all be happy for you.
 
I think it is the best first pen ever! It is even nicer than many 100th pens I have seen (or made:redface:).

Your dentist has good taste and is getting a great deal. Keep up the good work! And please keep sharing your experiences with us. It is fun to see people succeed!:smile:

And please don't let some negative comments sour your IAP experience.
 
I love that pen. I wouldn't have thought to use the golden ratio either. I can't believe thats your first pen! I have always been a fan of asymmetry.
 
A Majestic Jr with 13 segments of aluminum and acrylic for your first pen that you are going to sell for $300? :eek: Great job and very happy for you but I am just amazed at your luck. (i.e. imagination in making that blank, having the tooling to make it, keeping that blank together with your experience level and with all those segments and then having an offer of $300 not for that pen but to make one like it!). Did you learn all this here on the IAP in the past month? I seriously think you should highly consider playing lotto if available in your state. BTW what city do you live in where these magical things happen? I noticed it only says USA in your profile is the only reason I ask..

I agree with John T on the pricing - but it's yours so price it for whatever you want.

On a side note - I used to play a lot of pool in my younger days and spent alot of time in pool halls. Seen a little bit of everything in that time and remember near professional level players that would do anything to disguise their skill. They would give you fake names and say they hadn't been playing long .. (reference movies like The Hustler or Color of Money). They would come up with the most outlandish stories that well just seemed to hard to believe but had just eenough credibility to be believable. I'm not saying you are hustling but man this story sure reminds me of those days! (whats your other IAP screen name again? :tongue:). Keep up the excellent and professional work .... Can't wait to see your second pen and second sale.
 
Now Kelly, see you did take my comments the wrong way. I am in no way degrading your work. I have told you on this forum and the other forum you posted this on what I thought being your very first pen.

I do not know of the ratio thing that you speak of. I will do some googling and learn a few things. I figured there had to be a reason why you did what you did and at least you told me such. There are many people who love different artforms and no not everyone has to agree and that is what makes the world go round. I just mentioned it was not in my taste form but was curious enough to learn about it.

I do wish you much success in this pen turning business. Not all pens you make will be successful so be prepared for failure. But when that happens just jump on this forum and ask questions. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

If you have not read the segmenting forum yet please do so and if you have questions about segmenting that would be the place to post them. I am thrilled to have new and exiting examples of segmenting come along. I have said this many times the surface to this aspect of blank making has just been scratched. Welcome. Good luck.
 
dansills said:
A Majestic Jr with 13 segments of aluminum and acrylic for your first pen that you are going to sell for $300? :eek: Great job and very happy for you but I am just amazed at your luck. (i.e. imagination in making that blank, having the tooling to make it, keeping that blank together with your experience level and with all those segments and then having an offer of $300 not for that pen but to make one like it!). Did you learn all this here on the IAP in the past month? I seriously think you should highly consider playing lotto if available in your state. BTW what city do you live in where these magical things happen? I noticed it only says USA in your profile is the only reason I ask..

I agree with John T on the pricing - but it's yours so price it for whatever you want.

On a side note - I used to play a lot of pool in my younger days and spent alot of time in pool halls. Seen a little bit of everything in that time and remember near professional level players that would do anything to disguise their skill. They would give you fake names and say they hadn't been playing long .. (reference movies like The Hustler or Color of Money). They would come up with the most outlandish stories that well just seemed to hard to believe but had just eenough credibility to be believable. I'm not saying you are hustling but man this story sure reminds me of those days! (whats your other IAP screen name again? :tongue:). Keep up the excellent and professional work .... Can't wait to see your second pen and second sale.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry if you doubt anything I have said.
I didn't price the pen and never intended to sell any, it just happened.
I do other crafting and dabble with some jewelry so, imagination is easy, the tooling is a lathe and tool set along with a dremel, and keeping it together is epoxy that I have also used before.
I only found this place while doing research on how to use a lathe. I've read some interesting stuff on here but, I have watched countless videos on youtube and a lot of reading from several sources. I didn't make this pen over night like the folks here, it took almost two weeks.
The city I live in is Goshen, nothing magical around here.

I don't play pool and have no reason to "hustle" you or anyone else. What is there to be gained? I just wanted to share a picture of an achievement. I'm far from a professional and I kind of regret showing this thing. I'm not sure there will be a second one to show.
 
Kelly
Don't take this stuff to heart. These guys are a bunch of jokesters. They pick on each other unmercifully. Stick around and you will see. By the way,really nice pen. Congrats.
Paul
 
08K.80 said:
dansills said:
A Majestic Jr with 13 segments of aluminum and acrylic for your first pen that you are going to sell for $300? :eek: Great job and very happy for you but I am just amazed at your luck. (i.e. imagination in making that blank, having the tooling to make it, keeping that blank together with your experience level and with all those segments and then having an offer of $300 not for that pen but to make one like it!). Did you learn all this here on the IAP in the past month? I seriously think you should highly consider playing lotto if available in your state. BTW what city do you live in where these magical things happen? I noticed it only says USA in your profile is the only reason I ask..

I agree with John T on the pricing - but it's yours so price it for whatever you want.

On a side note - I used to play a lot of pool in my younger days and spent alot of time in pool halls. Seen a little bit of everything in that time and remember near professional level players that would do anything to disguise their skill. They would give you fake names and say they hadn't been playing long .. (reference movies like The Hustler or Color of Money). They would come up with the most outlandish stories that well just seemed to hard to believe but had just eenough credibility to be believable. I'm not saying you are hustling but man this story sure reminds me of those days! (whats your other IAP screen name again? :tongue:). Keep up the excellent and professional work .... Can't wait to see your second pen and second sale.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry if you doubt anything I have said.
I didn't price the pen and never intended to sell any, it just happened.
I do other crafting and dabble with some jewelry so, imagination is easy, the tooling is a lathe and tool set along with a dremel, and keeping it together is epoxy that I have also used before.
I only found this place while doing research on how to use a lathe. I've read some interesting stuff on here but, I have watched countless videos on youtube and a lot of reading from several sources. I didn't make this pen over night like the folks here, it took almost two weeks.
The city I live in is Goshen, nothing magical around here.

I don't play pool and have no reason to "hustle" you or anyone else. What is there to be gained? I just wanted to share a picture of an achievement. I'm far from a professional and I kind of regret showing this thing. I'm not sure there will be a second one to show.
Click to expand...

Lighten up - laugh a little! Btw - I was born in Goshen. My dad worked at Coachmen for years. And people (me) not believing its your first pen is a compliment.

PS - epoxy? It's more susceptible to heat than CA I thought? I never could've drilled it - how did you do it?
 
I have some pens,using one of my daily users as a demo pen. Have even sold a couple right out of my shirt pocket. Welcome here and keep on going.
 
dansills said:
Lighten up - laugh a little! Btw - I was born in Goshen. My dad worked at Coachmen for years. And people (me) not believing its your first pen is a compliment.

PS - epoxy? It's more susceptible to heat than CA I thought? I never could've drilled it - how did you do it?
Click to expand...


I don't mind if people don't like what I make, whether it's a pen or my cooking. People have different tastes and opinions but, when I feel like I'm being called a liar, it kind of hurts a persons feelings.

I drilled it on a drill press. Really slow and lots of cold water. I drilled a little and cleaned the hole out, then filled it with the water and drilled a little, etc. It took forever but, that's how everything said to do it.
 
Wow, I think it is a great pen. It looks super cool to me. I hope to do so well some day.
I have wondered how to keep the pens cool. How do you keep from rusting your drill press. I may not understand how you do it. I tried a fan blowing on the pen blank but it did not help much.
 
Tom T said:
Wow, I think it is a great pen. It looks super cool to me. I hope to do so well some day.
I have wondered how to keep the pens cool. How do you keep from rusting your drill press. I may not understand how you do it. I tried a fan blowing on the pen blank but it did not help much.
Click to expand...

I have a garbage bag wrapped over the table part and the pole. I also rubbed car wax on both of them. Those were tips I read somewhere. I don't know if it works yet.
 
Tom T said:
Wow, I think it is a great pen. It looks super cool to me. I hope to do so well some day.
I have wondered how to keep the pens cool. How do you keep from rusting your drill press. I may not understand how you do it. I tried a fan blowing on the pen blank but it did not help much.
Click to expand...
There are a number of products available that are designed to keep such things from rusting. Some of them work pretty well if you are religious about using them.
 
jttheclockman said:
switch62 said:
As a guide try 3 x kit cost + 5 x blank costs + your time to make it. What's your time worth to you and how many hours did it take to make ?

I would price it between $170 to $220. Offer it at the higher price and if he thinks it is too high drop to a lower price (not $170 straight away) . Tell him that it's a discount price for him only.

If he sends more sales your way, you can sell the next pen at the higher price or give them a discount as well. :smile:

In the end it's what you feel comfortable with charging for a pen. Most people underprice their work and skill. I find that using a formula helps me from selling too low.

TonyO
Click to expand...


Formulas they are only good for math students.
Click to expand...

I know, but I'm an engineer ... close enough :biggrin:
I'm always reaching for the calculator:smile:


jttheclockman said:
How do you know what that blank cost??? so many pieces of different materials used. Do you take 1/4 of a acrylic blank + slivers of aluminum.:smile:
Click to expand...

Yep, something like that. Even if I have to guesstimate some of the costs.

jttheclockman said:
How do you charge a rate for your time?? Do you get overtime pay if it goes past what you thought it should??:smile: Where is the formula for the use of tools and the electricity and the use of finishing materials and on and on.
Click to expand...

I'd love overtime:smile:.
Tools, electricity, glue, finishing, etc are covered buy 3 x kit and 5 x blank.

If I were an accountant I'd have a complete cost breakdown done :biggrin: (sorry to any accountants reading this :smile:)

jttheclockman said:
People get to about the same price as others many different ways.

You have to treat a homemade blank differently but that does not always equate to a higher price. After doing many pens of varied kits and platings you will get a feel for what the pen is worth and what catagory it falls into.
Curious as to what you finally do settle on as a good price and what his reactions were. Keep us updated.
Click to expand...

All totally valid.

I find that if I don't have some guide as to the value of a pen I always sell myself (and the pen) short. I often feel unworthy to ask for payment for something I made or did, even if it costs me money. It's just the way that I am, nothing to do with the final product. If I can take the emotion out of the equation (pun unintended:smile:) then I can at least recoupe my expenses and have some extra to buy more kits, blanks, and tools.

Every person is different and will find different ways to determine the value of what they produce.

TonyO
 
Kelly, your pen is great and I cannot find fault with it's construction. You've obvoiusly put a great deal of effort and thought into it. It doesn't matter if other people like your pen or not, so long as you like it. Ask any great artist who they paint, sculpt, create for, the answer is usually for themselves.

Please keep making pens and post pictures of them. Don't worry about criticisims. You may even teach the "old-timers" a thing or two :smile:. That's the great thing about this forum, we all learn from each other. If there are some negative comments, I don't think they are ever ment as a put down.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And if the beholder is willing to pay you for it, all the better.:smile:

08K.80 said:
I took the pen out and handed it to him. He got a smile and I told him to try it. He signed his name a few times and his smile turned into a giggle and I could tell he liked it. He said he likes the size, weight, and especially the way it writes.
Click to expand...

That says it all :biggrin:

TonyO
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
I say good for you. If the dentist and you are happy with the price then I would say it is a fair price. As for the pen, it is the kind of pen that makes you stop and take a second look and that is a good thing. I like the pen, I don't know about your cooking. :biggrin:. I would also send a spare refill with the pen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom