Alternatives to CA finish...something durable?

[jrista]

I've only been turning pens for a little while. I started last year and turned for about a month, but due to health and lathe issues I didn't really get going again until late May this year. When I first started I used CA glue on most of the pens I made (all slimline). In all honesty, I was dismayed at the results...the CA turned my beautiful wood into plastic!

I started looking for other finishes, and have tried a number of things from O.B. Shine Juice (which actually looks really great, brings out the chatoyance wonderfully, but seems to get sticky when the pen is used), to just shellac, to Myland's Wipe-on Lacquer, to Myland's Friction Polish (which I assume is shellac based). I've settled on the Myland's Friction Polish, and generally it does a good job. It works best, gives the nicest shine, with just a few coats, but I have some concerns about long-term durability. I can put on more coats, but if I do that, I seem to start having problems keeping that nice shine. I can actually get a phenomenal shine with just a single coat of the friction polish, although I usually put on three.

The CA glue is of course very durable, but I have been very disappointed in the very plasticy look it gives my wood pens. I hate to take a really nice natural wood pen and plasticize it, losing all feel of the grain, all depth of the grain, etc. The Mylands friction polish does a pretty good job of coating the wood, but leaving the natural texture in place. It also does a decent job of bringing out that shimmer in the wood.

Bringing out that shimmer is another thing. The shellac/friction polish does a bit, but it seems the thing that brings out the shimmer the most is oil. Is there any robust, durable finish for pens that can bring out the most of the chatoyance, without getting sticky in use?

Thanks!!

 

[qquake]

I used to use Watco Danish Oil, and liked the results, but wanted something a tiny bit shinier. Several months ago I started using Doctors Woodshop Pens Plus. I really like the results. It seems to be fairly durable, I used it on a couple of my daily carries, and it looks to be holding up. I doubt if it's as durable as CA, though, but like you I don't like the "plasticy" look. Time will tell. It's expensive, $22 at Woodcraft, so it could be a pricey experiment if you don't like it. The top pen is mahogany, and the bottom pen is padauk. I finished them in June.

 

[howsitwork]

try Melamine lacquer . Depending on number of coats applied it can go gloss or semi matte if you want. I like that it doesn't hide the grain, similar to the paduak pen above.

 

[TonyL]

I have been doing this - it is not CA-free, but does add some durability and it's fast. I own several of Dr's products and called him to ask the same.

1. I dry sand to 2000 (or whatever you think is good). Wipe with dna or whatever to removing sanding dust.
2. Apply one coat of thin CA. I like Mercury flex, but have also used Gluboost (pick your "poison" just make sure the coat is nice and even).
3. Without sanding the single coat of thin CA, I then apply about 4 to 6 coats of Dr's high build friction polish. I also have pen's plus, but the HBF polish contains no wax which I am going to apply next.
4. I then apply one or two coats of Renaissance brand wax.

It is not as durable and 10 coats of CA, but it does leave a nice satin finish.

I am sure there are dozens of ways to approach this.

 

[jrista]

I used to use Watco Danish Oil, and liked the results, but wanted something a tiny bit shinier. Several months ago I started using Doctors Woodshop Pens Plus. I really like the results. It seems to be fairly durable, I used it on a couple of my daily carries, and it looks to be holding up. I doubt if it's as durable as CA, though, but like you I don't like the "plasticy" look. Time will tell. It's expensive, $22 at Woodcraft, so it could be a pricey experiment if you don't like it. The top pen is mahogany, and the bottom pen is padauk. I finished them in June.

I just came across Dr.s Pens Plus yesterday... I was already buying a bunch of stuff, so I passed on it...but, I may have to give it a try here. I am not necessarily looking for anything as durable as CA. I doubt there is anything as durable as a plastic coating. I am just looking for something that will hold up reasonably well over the life of the pen, without making the pen look like plastic.

I am curious...how well did the Danish Oil hold up? I guess it needs 30 days to fully cure?

 

[WriteON]

I like Tru-Oil. Apply very thin coats. After a few applications it begins to get a nice gloss. I use 0000 steel wool with EEE wax… buff with paper towel.
It's easy to apply. It's durable. Please wear a respirator when using. It's brutal.

 

[jrista]

try Melamine lacquer . Depending on number of coats applied it can go gloss or semi matte if you want. I like that it doesn't hide the grain, similar to the paduak pen above.

So, I believe the Mylands lacquer I have is Melamine...I'll have to double check. I was using that before the Mylands friction polish. I actually do like it, aside from the fact that on a number of woods, it seems to streak, and once it does that, its all but impossible to fix. Have to sand it back fully and start from scratch, which inevitably affects the shape of your blanks. It seems to work pretty well on really hard woods. Its got a great sheen.

 

[jrista]

I have been doing this - it is not CA-free, but does add some durability and it's fast. I own several of Dr's products and called him to ask the same.

1. I dry sand to 2000 (or whatever you think is good). Wipe with dna or whatever to removing sanding dust.
2. Apply one coat of thin CA. I like Mercury flex, but have also used Gluboost (pick your "poison" just make sure the coat is nice and even).
3. Without sanding the single coat of thin CA, I then apply about 4 to 6 coats of Dr's high build friction polish. I also have pen's plus, but the HBF polish contains no wax which I am going to apply next.
4. I then apply one or two coats of Renaissance brand wax.

It is not as durable and 10 coats of CA, but it does leave a nice satin finish.

I am sure there are dozens of ways to approach this.

Thanks for the details, Tony!

I've heard a lot about GluBoost lately. Seems to be the hot CA-finishing ticket right now. I'm intrigued by your process, though... The one coat of CA shouldn't hide the grain.

Its funny, I was just looking at all of Dr's finishes yesterday. I was originally drawn to them by the very light colored pure walnut oil finish he makes. I've used (and didn't really like) the Mahoneys walnut oil. It is a golden-brown color, and always darkens wood, except for walnut which it seems to lighten. It always seems to smell rancid, too (maybe I was getting old bottles...)

It looked like Dr's had basically a version of OB Shine Juice, but with his clear Walnut oil instead of BLO. BLO makes everything pee-yellow, which I don't care too much for. I really like seeing the natural colors of my woods. Anyway, sounds like I need to give the good ol' Dr's stuff a try.

 

[jrista]

I like Tru-Oil. Apply very thin coats. After a few applications it begins to get a nice gloss. I use 0000 steel wool with EEE wax… buff with paper towel.
It's easy to apply. It's durable. Please wear a respirator when using. It's brutal.

Thanks! Glad to hear people have had success with oils... I do like how oil makes the wood shine and shimmer.

 

[qquake]

I just came across Dr.s Pens Plus yesterday... I was already buying a bunch of stuff, so I passed on it...but, I may have to give it a try here. I am not necessarily looking for anything as durable as CA. I doubt there is anything as durable as a plastic coating. I am just looking for something that will hold up reasonably well over the life of the pen, without making the pen look like plastic.

I am curious...how well did the Danish Oil hold up? I guess it needs 30 days to fully cure?

I applied the Danish oil like a friction finish. It cured to the touch within an hour. I don't have a feel for how well it held up, I gave the pens to people that didn't use the pens frequently, if at all.

 

[leehljp]

IF you don't find your long term protectorate finish, there is an alternative that a few use on occasion - a thick application of CA, smoothed out, sanded to a dull finish. The tactile feel is like wood but the long term protection is there.

To Shine or Not To Shine

A post a few weeks ago gave me the idea to try a CA finish on two pens of the same wood (burl in this case) but do one with a shiny finish and one with a "mat" finish. TO SHINE OR NOT TO SHINE: The shine of the one on the left is from 12000 MM. The mat finish (on the right) was taken to...

www.penturners.org

 

[TonyL]

Thanks for the details, Tony!

I've heard a lot about GluBoost lately. Seems to be the hot CA-finishing ticket right now. I'm intrigued by your process, though... The one coat of CA shouldn't hide the grain.

Its funny, I was just looking at all of Dr's finishes yesterday. I was originally drawn to them by the very light colored pure walnut oil finish he makes. I've used (and didn't really like) the Mahoneys walnut oil. It is a golden-brown color, and always darkens wood, except for walnut which it seems to lighten. It always seems to smell rancid, too (maybe I was getting old bottles...)

It looked like Dr's had basically a version of OB Shine Juice, but with his clear Walnut oil instead of BLO. BLO makes everything pee-yellow, which I don't care too much for. I really like seeing the natural colors of my woods. Anyway, sounds like I need to give the good ol' Dr's stuff a try.

I owned and still own many bottles of GB. I think I am the only one that can't get it to dry as quickly as others can. I have more success with mercury despite wanting to be really happy with GB. Maybe, it is my aura LOL?

I just ran into the kitchen to photograph these. They are engraved for customers, so I rotated them to hide their names.

These folks have ordered 6 pens from me. That's the finish they like. I wanted to produce a matte finish and add some durability. Don't know if it really does anything in the long run.

 

[jrista]

I owned and still own many bottles of GB. I think I am the only one that can't get it to dry as quickly as others can. I have more success with mercury despite wanting to be really happy with GB. Maybe, it is my aura LOL?

I just ran into the kitchen to photograph these. They are engraved for customers, so I rotated them to hide their names.

These folks have ordered 6 pens from me. That's the finish they like. I wanted to produce a matte finish and add some durability. Don't know if it really does anything in the long run.

View attachment 314889

Just to make sure I'm clear...this is the mercury or GB?

Regarding being happy with finishes...hah! I think this is the hardest part of turning for me. I've become quite good with the tools, finishing cuts, and even sanding (which like so many, I hate! ) Finish is just so darn hard. Not just with pens, either, with any turned item, I seem to have a heck of a time getting the finish right. I've recently spent a ton of time trying to get OB Shine Juice to work on a few turned items, and for some reason it just won't keep that glass-like shine, and for the life of me I cannot seem to figure out why. Maybe my aura is finish-challenged.

 

[jrista]

IF you don't find your long term protectorate finish, there is an alternative that a few use on occasion - a thick application of CA, smoothed out, sanded to a dull finish. The tactile feel is like wood but the long term protection is there.

To Shine or Not To Shine

A post a few weeks ago gave me the idea to try a CA finish on two pens of the same wood (burl in this case) but do one with a shiny finish and one with a "mat" finish. TO SHINE OR NOT TO SHINE: The shine of the one on the left is from 12000 MM. The mat finish (on the right) was taken to...

www.penturners.org

Thanks for the thread. So you are finishing the CA up to 8000 grit of micromesh, then backing off to lower grits. Are you doing this with the lathe on? Or just hand sanding with the lathe off? I do like the look of the matte finish in your example photo. Have you ever tried to get just a slight sheen with the CA? Or is it just either matte or plastic-gloss?

 

[jrista]

I applied the Danish oil like a friction finish. It cured to the touch within an hour. I don't have a feel for how well it held up, I gave the pens to people that didn't use the pens frequently, if at all.

Interesting. So by like a friction polish, I assume you mean you used friction to heat the oil? I guess that would help it polymerize faster. Thanks for the examples. That paduke looks excellent!

 

[monophoto]

OB Shine Juice is a shellac-based friction polish. You can also make a friction polish using lacquer that avoids the problems associated with shellac - equal parts of a good-quality lacquer (such as Deft or Watco), lacquer thinner, and the drying oil of your choice. I prefer Tung Oil, but BLO or walnut oil also work well. I holds up well, but its not as plasticky as CA.

A finish that holds up very well (possibly better than CA), but takes a bit longer to apply is polyurethane. A solvent-based solution will have a slight amber color that enhances the natural color of most timbers. Water-based solutions are possibly even better although they tend to be neutral almost to the point of being blue, and that doesn't work well on some woods. Rather than the expensive brands intended for fine furniture, get the bulk stuff intended for floor finishing - if you can walk on it, it will hold up.

 

[1080Wayne]

Thanks for the thread. So you are finishing the CA up to 8000 grit of micromesh, then backing off to lower grits. Are you doing this with the lathe on? Or just hand sanding with the lathe off? I do like the look of the matte finish in your example photo. Have you ever tried to get just a slight sheen with the CA? Or is it just either matte or plastic-gloss?

Not a lot of point in going up to 8000 and then backing off to get a matte CA finish . Just stop at a sheen level you like as you go up . For me , not generally a fan of shiny wood , that is usually P800 Abranet . I do it on the lathe , but finish with lengthwise by hand off the lathe . I do any lengthwise sanding by hand off the lathe .

 

[leehljp]

Thanks for the thread. So you are finishing the CA up to 8000 grit of micromesh, then backing off to lower grits. Are you doing this with the lathe on? Or just hand sanding with the lathe off? I do like the look of the matte finish in your example photo. Have you ever tried to get just a slight sheen with the CA? Or is it just either matte or plastic-gloss?

That was 13 years ago and the principle is the same now, just a variation in the technique depending upon the situation. I don't always use sandpaper now to get a smooth finish, I use my scraper to bring to a smooth finish. And then if I need to dull it (which is rare for me), I will get some 3600 MM or use some equal grade sandpaper to get what I want. Yes, getting a slight sheen is easily possible with the variety of super fine grit sandpaper that I have on hand, or even 0000 steel wool.

Getting a matt finish and adding a wax or course polish will bring on the sheen, but they may wear off over time.

 

[leehljp]

Not a lot of point in going up to 8000 and then backing off to get a matte CA finish . Just stop at a sheen level you like as you go up . For me , not generally a fan of shiny wood , that is usually P800 Abranet . I do it on the lathe , but finish with lengthwise by hand off the lathe . I do any lengthwise sanding by hand off the lathe .

That is technically correct, but by taking it to 8000 to a fairly high gloss, any imperfections will show up and can be sanded or turned out and then it can be taken back down to the 3000 range for a matt finish. Not a big problem, nor a large time factor involved to do that, but more or less for my own obsessive-compulsive behavior for perfection. No one else will know, but I will.

 

[TonyL]

Just to make sure I'm clear...this is the mercury or GB?

Regarding being happy with finishes...hah! I think this is the hardest part of turning for me. I've become quite good with the tools, finishing cuts, and even sanding (which like so many, I hate! ) Finish is just so darn hard. Not just with pens, either, with any turned item, I seem to have a heck of a time getting the finish right. I've recently spent a ton of time trying to get OB Shine Juice to work on a few turned items, and for some reason it just won't keep that glass-like shine, and for the life of me I cannot seem to figure out why. Maybe my aura is finish-challenged.

These happen to be Mercury Flex thin. But the outcome is visually the with GB. I used both products (separately).

 

[howsitwork]

So, I believe the Mylands lacquer I have is Melamine...I'll have to double check. I was using that before the Mylands friction polish. I actually do like it, aside from the fact that on a number of woods, it seems to streak, and once it does that, its all but impossible to fix. Have to sand it back fully and start from scratch, which inevitably affects the shape of your blanks. It seems to work pretty well on really hard woods. Its got a great sheen.

I thin my coats with 50% cellulose thinners to slow the drying. Build a drying rack ( 6" nails set upright in a plank of heavy wood) and stand the blanks on that then coat carefully with. fine bristled brush. Allow to cure overnight .

I don't use friction polish anymore now . If you coat from end to end I don't seem to get the streaking you mention or if there is any fine abrasive sorts it ( 600 to 1000 grit) then re- coat

 

[penicillin]

My usual finish is to use GluBoost Fill 'n' Finish according to their instructions (regular/medium, then thin) followed with Micro-mesh pads in sequence.

If I use all nine Micro-mesh pads, I will get a glossy finish. If I stop at the third or fourth pad, I get a more natural matte finish. It works for me.

 

[Pierre---]

Urushi! 1000 years guarantee, absolutely natural, shiny and attractive.