I'll be looking for a paypal alternative

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Russianwolf

Russianwolf

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Joined
Jul 13, 2007
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Location
Martinsburg, WV, USA.
My wife lists purses on ebay all the time and accepts paypal. A week ago, a customer wasn't satisfied with the size of a bag that she purchased, and wanted a refund. The measurements of bag were listed in the listing plainly and note saying that we only accept returns for gross misrepresentation. From her email "It is much smaller than how it is represented in the picture. I am looking for a large bag."

She filed a claim on paypal saying the bag wasn't as described, holding the amount of the bag from our account. I responded saying that the item was as described and that we would not accept the return. After three days with no response from her, I upped the claim to a dispute and provided paypal with all our emails and the listing.

Today I am informed that they have contacted the buyer to say that I will accept a return. That the listing didn't accurately describe the item.

I called them. I wanted to know what basis they used to reach their decision. The girl on the other end of the phone was pleasant enough and did look at it, but all she would tell me is that that was the decision made. I explained that I needed to know how they based the decision so that I could make my listings better and avoid this in the future. "We aren't able to disclose the reason for the decision". What?!?!?!?

As far as I can tell the buyer never replied to the dispute. You can see her issuance of the claim, you can see my denial of the claim, you can see my escalation to the dispute, and that's it. Nothing else.

So, I'm shopping for a new payment service as paypal won't back it's customers.
 
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I had a similar issue with a "never delivered" item. Someone filed a dispute without even talking to me. The person never contacted me and repeated emails to them to resolve the problem got no response.

Despite this, and because I did not send it by trackable mail, Paypal simply took money away from me. Normally for lost-in-transit items, I will send a replacement at no charge, but I never even got that option despite repeated requests to Paypal.

If you find something better, please let us know.

Russell.
 
Stop taking Paypal period. I only use paypal as a last resort. Won't do eBay to save my life. I will use eBay for research though, if the seller isn't bright enough to place his email cleverly in the text of his advert shame on him. NEXT. I even send cash via priority mail. I definately trust MY mailman and for the most part my seller if they respond to my email. With tracking it's 5.35 flat out. This way I know they got my payment. The seller incurred no fees in any direction, just folded the money and shoved it in their pocket. It's cheaper than a wired payment. Everybody wins. YMMV.
 
There are folks out there that will figure out a way to cheat you no matter what you.
Of course taking cash is about the best way going.
 
My experience was the opposite. I got burned twice by sellers and eBay/paypal.

One for item not received and the other for item not as described. For the later, PP required me to have it professionally evaluated once they were satisfied, I was ordered to ship it back insured. Problem, USPS only scanned the signed insurance ticket and not the delivery confirmation. According to Paypal they cannot use it because it is not trackable online and my copy was direct from my local USPS. :mad:

I never got my money back and spent close to $100.00 extra for the evaluation and return shipping. :mad: :beat-up:

I felt so bad I stopped using eBay for a year...but I went back again.

Looks like they are trying to fix things but over compensating now.
 
Checks do cost you money . . . if they bounce. Also if you have a business checking account, most banks have a limit on the number of transactions that they will do per month for free. I would not send cash through the mail. For one thing there is no proof that you sent it to the seller. He/she could pocket the money and say you never sent it. I don't like Paypal because of the fees but until I decide to start accepting credit cards on my own I think I am stuck.
 
I have to pass by so many items offered by members here, simply because
they list PayPal as the only payment option. I refuse to use PP or Ebay.
I've gone through similar situations to those described here, and the only
consistent criteria I can find behind the decisions is that they get their cut.

I send and accept checks but no more Ebay or Paypal.
 
Do you know that eBay is proposing to stop accepting Checks and Money Order altogether?

They want all transactions to be purely Paypal in the future...I think it is GREED driven!!!

Hope they do it and open themselves to lawsuit (lots of it)!
 
Dario, I thought that all ready went through but then I haven't bought off of ebay in awhile. Does anything know how comparable Propay fees are to Paypal?
 
What about the Google Checkout? I am thinking of putting them on my site. Does anyone have any ideas of that. It is either that or I get a website where I collect via credit card for visa Mc or AE and roll the cost into the buyer.
 
With the latest data security compliance regulations required by the PCI (Payment Card Industry) selling over the internet and using a standard PCI merchant account is impractical, however, it is still unclear if PCI is going to simply impose higher fees for non-complience or if they will totally refuse service. Having the customer call you on the phone and taking the number and process payment through a standard merchant account is an option. Some customers will not want to do that but then not everyone is willing to send a check either, and has been noted, some checks will bounce.

I feel that the answer is that when selling consumer direct, you will get taken advantage of occasionally. With Ebay and small scale direct selling it is particularily irritating because you have a personal contact with the buyer. Also the Ebay and PayPal dispute resolution are notoriously bad, they operate as profit centers not true arbitorators. They collect fees from both buyers and sellers and their primary motivation is to do nothing and keep the fees. Dispute resolution within the PCI is not much better.

On a personal level, when I get ripped off by a buyer I don't make much effort to work out a resolution, I just assume I've been robbed and get on with something else. In the time it takes to battle through dispute resolution I can make a few more pens that will sell for more money that it would have cost to pursue arbitration.
 
My main gripe is they won't tell me how they came to the decision. If they said, "oh, in your listing everything is rounded to the nearest 1/4 inch, which just isn't possible.", I say okay and we be doing all our measurements to the nearest mm. But the "we will not disclose how we reached the decision" just don't work for me.

If I make a decision at work, right or wrong, as long as I can back it up with reason then I'm fine. If I try their stunt with my boss, my career here would be short lived, just like paypal/ebay's remaining time in my house.

I did look into Google Checkout last night. I got as far as the fees before going to bed. 2%+.20 which is already better than paypal.
 
My experience is not all bad

Ebay made a changes about a year ago. They no longer allow a seller to enter negitive feedback on a buyer. The buyer can be as negative as they want.

Apparently, their subsidiary PayPal may have done the same thing, by siding with the buyer first.

I would keep pushing with PayPal. My story ended much happier than your's.

I did when I had problems shipping through PayPal. I had received an imediate deduction for postage, that the USPS did not deliver. I called the customer service line, to inquire why they charged my account, if the USPS could not provide the postage at the time. I received rude "it's not our fault" response from the PayPal operator. I tried to restore the conversation to a reasonable level, but finally left it with I will wait for the USPS to process the refund (if they do). About an hour after ending that call, I received a phone call from a "PayPal customer service supervisor" that had been monitoring the calls that morning.

He started by saying the representative I spoke with did not handle the situation properly. He appologized for the rudeness of the response I received. He said that PayPal would make a "courtesy" deposit into my account by noon (Pacific) in the same amount as my claim. He said that my actual claim against the USPS would take some time for the USPS to review, but he thought I should be successful, based on what he could see in their system. I was a little skeptical, but the deposit hit my account later that day.

About three weeks later when I received the refund from the vendor, I called the manager back. He told me the "courtesy" adjustment was mine to keep as compensation for how their representative had treated me that morning. Basically, PayPal paid me $159 for the rudeness of their call center.:biggrin: My claim against the USPS, was for multiple international packages. They charged me for the postage but never gave me the printable labels. That particular morning the USPS was experiencing problems with their internet postage system. They returned the funds to my account with a memo that said "You should use USPS.com."

I have had some negative experiences with PayPal. But that one positive experience told me that somewhere in their organization the still believe in customer service.

Keep trying.

Tim
 
I've had no trouble at all with PayPal or Ebay despite years of use.

You guys who think taking checks is a better option must not do much volume, or perhaps you have a system in place where you wait until the check clears before you ship the item. Otherwise, you're giving away your products, and you have no recourse. If you are mailing cash through the USPS, you are taking a very unnecessary risk. Your bank will give you a money order either for free, or close to it. At least then you have some record of the payment.

As mostly a buyer, I would not want to order an item, send a personal check, wait for it to clear before the item is shipped, just to receive whatever trinket I've ordered.

Use PayPal on Ebay or IAP or whatever, and your item is in the mail the same day most of the time.

I don't sell much at all, and certainly not in volume, so my point of view may be off point for some of you folks.
 
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I used PayPal since it's inception, My wife and I used to sell alot of ancient and antique glass beads and jewelry on nfeeBay,I've heard some real horror stories especially from the early days, some people reported having their entire bank account frozen by them, that's when it became a smart thing to have a bank account at another bank just for PayPal transactions. It clearly states that you must show or have delivery conformation, I had one person try to claim non delivery, but I had the conformation, I realize it costs even more but you can always opt for Signature conformation, that way there is no way to say the item wasn't delivered, keep your paypal balance low, keep enough in your PP bank to cover what you might want, and transfer any thing else to your main bank account.
As far as what Rob went through, that's a hard thing to explain, Buyers remorse is hard to deal with, if a full description of the item is accurate,they should have accepted the sellers side, the sellers are the ones that keep them in business,
I think it's just another thing eBay is doing to cover it's own butt, I hope this new bonanzel gets going, but eBay is such a monster it's hard to slow them down. It would be nice to see them brought to their knees.
 
Seer said:
What about the Google Checkout? I am thinking of putting them on my site. Does anyone have any ideas of that. It is either that or I get a website where I collect via credit card for visa Mc or AE and roll the cost into the buyer.
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My experience is opposite of this thread, I've never had a problem with either paypay or propay and use both regularly. I did have a situation with Google Checkout where I ordered a diskette of a computer program, but never received. I've email the Google Checkout several times, but never received a response nor my diskette.
 
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You may want to look at ProPay. I know that there has been some discussion about it. Right now it will only integrate with Ebay if you are a "Power Seller", but you can also use it to generate an invoice, and they can then process the payment. Prices seem to be reasonable to boot.

I'm considering it as an option for some future needs.

Steve W
 
rjwolfe3 said:
Checks do cost you money . . . if they bounce. Also if you have a business checking account, most banks have a limit on the number of transactions that they will do per month for free. I would not send cash through the mail. For one thing there is no proof that you sent it to the seller. He/she could pocket the money and say you never sent it. I don't like Paypal because of the fees but until I decide to start accepting credit cards on my own I think I am stuck.
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Last time I checked......CC costs also....
 
Dario said:
Do you know that eBay is proposing to stop accepting Checks and Money Order altogether?

They want all transactions to be purely Paypal in the future...I think it is GREED driven!!!

Hope they do it and open themselves to lawsuit (lots of it)!
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From what I've heard......it's already a done deal! No more checks or MOs.
 
rjwolfe3 said:
Yes, but I believe that it is cheaper then Paypal but don't know for sure.
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Charges vary depending who you choose to process it for you. Last I checked (2 years ago), some charge per transaction, others as percentage and some combination.

Biggest problem is people being leery giving away their credit card number...especially online. I know I am among them and that is where Paypal shines.
 
But you can use Paypal to accept credit cards without the person having a Paypal account which is nice. They don't even have to log into Paypal.

If you stop and think about it, either way you are giving some type of financial info over the internet whether it be to Paypal or a website owner.
 
jkeithrussell said:
I've had no trouble at all with PayPal or Ebay despite years of use.

You guys who think taking checks is a better option must not do much volume
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First off, I did not say personal cheque was a better option, only that under Mike's circumstances it was an option...most of my customers are repeat customers so having a cheque bounce is very unlikely, and if it did they most certainly would cover that cost not me. I offer all forms of payments as a courtesy, and there are many payment options that have not even been mentioned, for example Western Union, or direct bank deposits, for some customers that is their only option for whatever reason...:wink:
 
Yeah, My wife is fed up with ebay's fees. So she will be switching to Bonanzle or however you spell it. Since it's free to list, I'll be throwing some of my work on there too.

paypal, I like for convenience, but if they want to play games like this, then I don't feel like they want my partnership. once I make sure that google checkout will work for my site, I'll be switching it over (likely by the weekend). I think I'll be putting this lovely event in my blog too, so others will see what is going on.

What's funny, is Lillian called paypal when it was just an email complaint about the size. And the person she spoke with felt that she was on the right side, not the buyer. But according to the person I spoke with last night, The decision is made by some kind of "dispute board" and that they usually side with the person that doesn't have the item (the lady mailed it back without authorization and we sent it back to her).
 
I've had hundreds of transactions through pay pal. I got an e-mail two days giving me a personal support line. I still have not decided if that is legit or not.
anyway I have never had a problem and have actually had them go out of there way and call me when a transaction looked suspicious. I do occasionally run into the person that has had such a bad experience with them that just will not use them anymore. Not even if it is just me sending them an invoice. I personally will not use Discover card due to them robbing me of almost $1000. Anyway so far I have not had one problem. I get tracking on any package I print postage for on pay pal. and it makes the whole process easy. bad things will happen no matter where you do business. Not giving you reason for their decision would not set well with me.
basically bad things happen is part of the cost of doing business. I don't even manage group buys as if there will be no losses.
 
Chasper said:
On a personal level, when I get ripped off by a buyer I don't make much effort to work out a resolution, I just assume I've been robbed and get on with something else. In the time it takes to battle through dispute resolution I can make a few more pens that will sell for more money that it would have cost to pursue arbitration.
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Sad, but true. Things are a little more complicated for me selling from Australia, to mostly the US.

Some banks charge for cheque deposits over here. Heck, some banks charge for cash deposits, into your own account!!

If I accept foreign cheques, there is a fee, and a 90 day clearance time, which is just ridiculous.

Getting cash sent from OS is impractical both in risk of it getting lost/stolen, plus foreign currency conversions often lose about 5% in conversion costs anyway.

Having merchant facilities to take my own CC is too expensive for the volume of sales I have. Monthly fees plus per transaction fees which are quite often more than Paypal.

Direct bank deposit is the cheapest (generally free) option for accepting money from within Australia, but I'm sure there would be fees for international transfers, bu then there's alwasy the problem of trying to match incoming monies to actual transactions anyway. SOme banks here don,t pass the payment reference info over, or they give you a measly 6 characters of information.

I realise some people don't like online transactions. I decided many years ago that if someone was going to get my info, they'd get it no matter what. I'm always careful using my CC on line, check my statements regularly, and have never had a problem yet. The money I have saved by shopping online with a CC has saved me thousands over what I'd have spent through cash available sources, so I'm way ahead so far. For you guys in the US, using PP is even moer efficient with bank<-> paypal transfers quite easy and efficient.

Despite my earlier gripe, and the occassional problem, Paypal is still a pretty good deal compared to the alternatives, at least for me dealing with overseas transactioins, but I'm always waiting for a new competitor to up the stakes. I'll checkout Google Checkout :)

Russell.
 
Russianwolf said:
What's funny, is Lillian called paypal when it was just an email complaint about the size. And the person she spoke with felt that she was on the right side, not the buyer. But according to the person I spoke with last night, The decision is made by some kind of "dart board" .
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Yeah.. that sounds about right..:tongue:
 
I sell some things here and other sites and I like using PP. Like in Russell's case when you do things in another country they do all the conversationfor you and then you're not stuck with being short because the currency was different at the point of sale and the point you get the money.
I have only had 1 problem with a return. I sent a box of magazines to Dallas before thanksgiving and the guy I sent it to said he didn't receive them after a week. I went to my PO and they said it could take up to 10 days for parcel post and I explained that to the guy and sent him a copy of the receipt by email showing I sent it and when. He decided that wasn't good enough and filed a claim. I told them to refund the guys money mainly because I wasn't wanting to mess with it and thought the guy would be honest about paying when he got his box. They waited the 5 days before turning loose his funds to him which I think was because he didn't have a verified account because I had to wait for it to clear to get it. Anyway I figure he seen that I didn't get a tracking number and he was off scott free. Lesson learned on the tracking numbers. As Daniel said when you do it through click n ship you get the tracking number free.
 
Mike,

At the risk of being simplistic, why didn't you just refund the money and take the purse back? That way, everybody is out a little money for postage, you have the purse to offer for sale again, and no one needs ulcer medicine.
 
Have you guys tried Western Union?? I used to use that a lot when i purchase stuff from the US...... unfortunately, not everyone accepted that form of payment
 
garypeck said:
Have you guys tried Western Union?? I used to use that a lot when i purchase stuff from the US...... unfortunately, not everyone accepted that form of payment
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I don't know why anyone would use Western Union here in Australia at least. Every time I've looked into it, it's been ridiculously expensive.

I just did a quick check on their web site. To send AUS$15 to the US, there is a $20 fee, so it'd cost me $35 all up. Plus if you fund it via credit card, I believe it's considered a cash advance as well, so you immediate start paying interest to your CC company.

Russell.
 
Western union is much lower cost for larger transactions. it is in the small ones that they will eat you alive. I can send payment for pen mill orders by western union for $15.00 where Pay Pal would be $60-$70. Just like anything else you have to shop for the best deal. the problem with western union is I have to run down to their office to make the transaction.
Accepting checks or money orders is the worst for me. I don't do the banking, my wife does so it involves her having to make a trip to the bank, then she has to watch for the checks to clear and then let me know so I can transfer the funds to my pay pal. basically mixing penturners money with my personal finances is not a good thing and has lead to some problems in the past. basically we have real life going on and are not necessarily thinking about a $100 check that is clearing in our checking account.
 
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Daniel said:
Accepting checks or money orders is the worst for me. I don't do the banking, my wife does so it involves her having to make a trip to the bank, then she has to watch for the checks to clear and then let me know so I can transfer the funds to my pay pal. basically mixing penturners money with my personal finances is not a good thing and has lead to some problems in the past. basically we have real life going on and are not necessarily thinking about a $100 check that is clearing in our checking account.
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You REALLY should open up a separate checking account for any business related things. Even if you don't use it all that often, the IRS really really doesn't like you using personal accounts for business things, even if you're a sole proprietor. Many banks will give you a free account, so it's a no brainer.:rotfl:
 
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