Adding features - circles, ink window, clips

[NJturner]

In another forum post @hooked referenced the PepeTools circle cutter for metal rings on pens. I'm starting on a venture to add an ink window, clip and some accent rings to my pens as I am getting a little bored with the simple turned pen and would like to kick up my game and develop my own style.

I custom cast my own blanks so have colored and clear materials available. I ordered some clips from Beaufort for starting out. I've got most of the dies and taps needed from group buys here. So to my questions - Is the Pepe Tools circle cutter still the preferred tool for this? It's a bit pricey and to me it seems I will hardly use its wide selection of circles - I'd prefer something in metric and focusing on sizes common to fountain pen bodies which the PepeTools doesn't seem to do.

Second - I read in the posts of people using end mills to provide recesses. I am working on a wood lathe so curious if this is still an option or is it really an option only to those of us working on metal lathes? I know I can probably grind a chisel to give me a decent tool for cutting a recess, but the end mill seems cleaner and more accurate.

Third - Ink window - are they glued into the body of the pen or is this another place to do threading? Debating between a tenon and gluing it or cutting threads on both sides and threading it in (and then maybe glue it)? I cast some liquid diamonds clear resin for the ink windows and typically use either Alumilite Clear Slow or Thermoset Solutions Clear Urethane Resin I bought through @McKenzie Penworks. If you do glue it, what have you found works best?

Appreciate everyone's thoughts

Kevin

 

[hooked]

I don't think the disc cutter I use is a preferred tool. Just what I use. You can use whatever method works to make rings. I take a square wire and form it into a ring, then arc weld or solder it. I cut them out of sheet metal with a jeweler's saw. I get rods, drill them out, and part off the rings.

I like the disc cutter because it reduces my waste and the time needed to make rings. It takes me less than a minute to create a trim ring and finial coin. I use the washer for my ring and the center that was cut out for my finial coin. I use silver, and realized that when I cut out a ring with a jeweler's saw, my scraps contain more silver than the ring I just cut out. The disc cutter eliminates this for me. Silver is becoming too expensive to waste, and I do not have the equipment to reprocess the scraps. The Pepe tools disc cutter had the most extensive range of sizes when I purchased it, which is why I chose that one. It may not be the ideal tool for everyone.

I use an end mill right in my Rick Herrell tailstock holder collet, and I typically do that procedure on a Jet 1014. It works perfectly. It is a very small amount of material you are removing.

Regarding ink windows, my preference is to thread. I believe that gluing an ink window in is a high-risk point of failure if the pen were to drop. There is minimal surface area there for the glue to adhere. I believe that threaded ink windows, although requiring more work, are a more elegant and robust solution. I avoid using glue on my pens as much as possible now.

I used glue early on when trying the ink window. When I experimented with eye dropper fillers, I noticed that the ink stained the glue line, making it slightly visible—just another potential reason to avoid glue at this connection.

 

[d_bondi]

I don't have any input, but will be following the thread closely.

Kevin - I have been thinking about all these same next steps for a while now.

 

[NJturner]

Sorry @hooked - my wording was less than precise on the term 'preferred'. I like your stuff and your workmanship, and I guess subliminally was addressing my question to you about the cutter. I do appreciate you taking the time to reply to each question.

I love the idea of using the center for a finial - it increases the value of the tool in my eyes - just have been trying to justify the expense, especially after a few major penmaking expenses I just incurred, so proceeding carefully as this is a fun hobby for me and not a source of income.

My feeling in gluing the ink window was also a hot NO, for the same reasons you expressed, but I needed a bit of validation. I can handle the extra work and time of threading - just wasn't sure if I was wasting time on an unnecessary process.

I'm going to give the end mill idea some thought, figure out appropriate sizes, then probably give it a try.

Again - sorry if I misspoke, but truly appreciate yours and everyone else's input!

Kevin

 

[duncsuss]

I've made a few ink windows, when I did it I used overlap to increase the mechanical strength of the joint. I glued with DevCon 2-ton epoxy (the slow cure type).

The clear part was grooved around the outside, the opaque part grooved around the inside (kind of like ship-lap joinery). This effectively prevented anyone from seeing a potential ink stain at the interior glue line, because that was rebated almost 1/8" inside the barrel.

 

[NJturner]

I've made a few ink windows, when I did it I used overlap to increase the mechanical strength of the joint. I glued with DevCon 2-ton epoxy (the slow cure type).

The clear part was grooved around the outside, the opaque part grooved around the inside (kind of like ship-lap joinery). This effectively prevented anyone from seeing a potential ink stain at the interior glue line, because that was rebated almost 1/8" inside the barrel.

Duncan -
Your method was close to what I was considering vs threading the window in. I was drawing out a tenon and matching body recess for each end of the window, allowing a reasonable connection for the gluing of the window to the pen body versus a simple end to end bond. My struggle is that I really haven't gotten a really good bond with any adhesives I have tried so far - but will give the DevCon-2 a shot and see how it goes. Thank you!

 

[duncsuss]

... will give the DevCon-2 a shot and see how it goes. Thank you!

Another aid to getting a strong bond is to make the faces of the tenon and recess a little rough. The epoxy fills the scratches and when it's cured there is resistance to twisting and slipping apart.

 

[Sugar Creek Pen Co.]

Here is one I made for a friend a while back. The ink window and section were all machined as one piece that then screwed into the body of the pen. A little bit of a different approach.

 

[NJturner]

Wow Frank - That is a terrific idea and very nicely done! I also like how you have you have used the metallic rings to bring definition to the changes in material. Thank you for showing it!

Kevin

 

[Penultimate]

Check out John Tello of HelloTello on IG. He make lots of ink windows.

 

[NJturner]

Check out John Tello of HelloTello on IG. He make lots of ink windows.

Actually I'm going to the Washington DC Pen Show in a few weeks and John is a vendor there - hoping to chat with him and a few other folks there through the weekend event!

 

[Penultimate]

Cool, have fun.

 

[NJturner]

Following up on this - I took a 3/4 piece of alumilite and made a sample ink window for testing. I did M13 x .8 threads on tenons on both sides with the clear window area in the center. I threaded the body to fit the window in and am thinking through the section side.

As I am working this through, I was thinking it might be better to put a smaller tenon on each side to give me some wiggle room with turning. I bought the 12 x .8 in the last group buy. Not sure if this will work. Anyone making ink windows for their pens using tenons and if so, what size did you use? I plan on adding epoxy glue to the threads and making this a permanent piece then turning it to size.

Kevin

 

[d_bondi]

Hi Kevin,

I like it!

Is there any reason not to use the same tap and die as you use for your section to body threads, M10x1 or M10x.75? The convertor fits through that for a section so it is all you really need and it will give you more outer wall thickness on the finished barrel. The coarser threads might even epoxy up better.

I haven't tried this yet, so my thoughts are not based on actual hands on experience.

David

 

[NJturner]

Hi Kevin,

I like it!

Is there any reason not to use the same tap and die as you use for your section to body threads, M10x1 or M10x.75? The convertor fits through that for a section so it is all you really need and it will give you more outer wall thickness on the finished barrel. The coarser threads might even epoxy up better.

I haven't tried this yet, so my thoughts are not based on actual hands on experience.

David

Thanks David! I am noodling this thru, so will try it shortly. I am trying to figure out how to transition to the section and like you, I think possibly having a smaller tenon may give me more beefy walls to play with. One new issue is I have standard taps vs bottoming taps, so with such short tenons, I have issues with the number of complete threads available for the tenon. Trying to see if I have the headspace to drill deeper without encountering other issues to compensate for the lack of real beginning threads. I am NOT buying a $250 tap!! My 12 m tap is a bottoming tap which is why I was investigating a substitute.

I'd like the ink window to be under the cap, as I think it will look better aesthetically, but I don't know if I'll have enough strength to hold
The pressure of writing!

As an aside - this is turning #1 on the new Record Power lathe. So as I try and adjust to the lathe, I am also working my way through a new process - frustrating, but satisfying….lol. One thing I am not liking is the tail stock has very little lead depth vs my Nova, so Tapping and drilling is a bit more interesting.

Hopefully I will have something to show you in DC!!

Kevin

 

[duncsuss]

... to compensate for the lack of real beginning threads. I am NOT buying a $250 tap

Kevin - IMO, other than the threads that hold the cap on the barrel, there is no value to multi-start threading. It can actually be a liability to use in other places.

I use single-start for the section into the barrel and for the clip finial into the cap. These ink window threads aren't going to be visible, and should never come unscrewed. Something like M9x0.75 or 3/8"-32tpi should be fine. It depends on the diameter you drill out the barrel - I have used 8.25mm mostly as I started using M9x0.75 for the section tenon.

Buy a couple of sizes of regular tap and die from Victor Machinery, they have a fair selection of metric. You'll probably have to add a few extras such as odd size drill bits to bring the total up to their minimum order, it was $25 last time I bought anything from them.

 

[NJturner]

Kevin - IMO, other than the threads that hold the cap on the barrel, there is no value to multi-start threading. It can actually be a liability to use in other places.

I use single-start for the section into the barrel and for the clip finial into the cap. These ink window threads aren't going to be visible, and should never come unscrewed. Something like M9x0.75 or 3/8"-32tpi should be fine. It depends on the diameter you drill out the barrel - I have used 8.25mm mostly as I started using M9x0.75 for the section tenon.

Buy a couple of sizes of regular tap and die from Victor Machinery, they have a fair selection of metric. You'll probably have to add a few extras such as odd size drill bits to bring the total up to their minimum order, it was $25 last time I bought anything from them.

Duncan -
Thank you for your thoughts - thinking about it more, I like your idea of dropping a multi-start thread and using a typical single start - it would really save me some money! I appreciate the suggestions for starting sizes - shop is small enough, I don't need to buy a bunch of stuff and then find I can't really use it....lol. My initial noodling was to just see what might work using what I have in the shop - but it is quickly becoming obvious that I have another great reason to buy more tools! lol....

Kevin