DIY Finishing Polish

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Woodchipper

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Asked this question on another thread but wanted to separate it to get your experiences. Got a formula with DNA/Shellac/BLO, equal parts of each, from Captain Eddie Castelin on YouTube. Will this be good for pens? Pens as we know will be handled a lot so is it durable? Thanks.
 
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It's O.B.'s Shine Juice. O.B. was O.B. Lacoste, a woodworker from Lafayette, Louisiana. O.B. was a founding member of the Bayou Woodturners organization and a friend and mentor to Cap'n eddie. It's often called French Polish although French Polish is a technique of application and not a type of finish. It got that name because it is a prime candidate for the French Polishing technique.

Cody (Cwalker935) did some comparison experiments a couple of years ago with variations of the O.B. formula using lacquer, lacquer thinner, tung oil, etc. Here is a link to his post: OB's Shine Juice Formulations.

Previous research showed that several users observed that the glossiness of the finish diminished as the shellac and boiled linseed oil completely cured and that buffing sometimes helped bring the original shine back. So, although I think it is a good finish (it is what I use on tool handles and such), it might not be a good finish for those who desire to maintain a high gloss. For non CA pens I use Pen's Plus.

Regards,
Dave
 
Thanks for the link, Dave. I bought clear shellac. He related the story. In Lafayette, Louisiana, it would be Cajun polish.
 
Asked this question on another thread but wanted to separate it to get your experiences. Got a formula with DNA/Shellac/BLO, equal parts of each, from Captain Eddie Castelin on YouTube. Will this be good for pens? Pens as we know will be handled a lot so is it durable? Thanks.

I made and used "O.B. Shine Juice" a lot in 2020 and 2021. This was the first "shiny" finish I found that was ultra easy to apply....however, there are caveats.

This stuff can shine up AMAZINGLY well, and become super glossy....but only, and I repeat ONLY, if all the ingredients are correct, and FRESH. The ingredients, the shellac in particular but also the BLO, can go bad over time and the consequence of that is the finish will start out shiny, but as the VOCs (i.e. DNA and whatever is in the shellac, more on the shellac in a minute) evaporate, the glossy shine will dull to a flat and boring sheen within minutes. It is critical that the ingredients be as fresh as possible, and I have a recommendation to that end.

The other key factor that I've discovered, is the ingredients need to be exactly the correct ingredients. They are DNA (Denatured Alcohol, also sold as "fuel" these days which should primarily be ethanol.) BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil...needs to be pretty darn fresh, once this starts to go rancid, it becomes harder to get a truly glossy shine.) Finally Zinsser's Bullseye Clear Finish (a shellac, but not just any shellac...a specific dewaxed formulation that has some other additives, apparently including oil!!! This is a Zinsser's Bullseye can with a YELLOW label! There are other Zinsser's shellacs with reddish colored labels, which are not the same thing, and won't deliver the same results.) With these ingredients, particularly the Zinsser's Bullseye shellac, a fresh mixed batch should give a finish with a lasting shine.

The lasting shine is the hard part, and that's where having not just the right ingredients, but also a freshly mixed batch of the stuff is critically important. For whatever reason, O.B. Shine Juice has one of the shortest shelf lives of any finish I've ever used. Some people say it lasts 6 months, but if you really want that glassy shine, which is what this stuff is known for, then its really not even that long in my experience. Three months, but, I think it really depends on how oxygenated the juice itself and the various ingredients get over time in their cans or bottles. So you need to make sure the mix is FRESH!! I ultimately took to buying in bulk little half ounce, ounce, two ounce packs of capped bottles off of Amazon, so that I could make very small batches suited to the project at hand, and NEVER keep ANY of the mix on the shelf at all. IMO, that's the best way to make sure you always get a lasting shine.

On top of the small bottles for the mix, I've in general started using Stop Loss Bags for anything that comes in a can or bottle that will oxidize over time. The BLO and the Zinsser's in this case, will go bad on their own if they just sit in their can or bottle after some has been poured out. A stop-loss bag is designed to ensure that no oxygen gets in as you pour some of the oil or finish out of them. So you can greatly reduce the rate of oxidization of your finishes, which can make both the BLO and the Zinsser's finish last much longer on the shelf, allowing for on-demand mixing of O.B. Shine Juice when you need it. Technically, you could put the O.B. Shine Juice in a stop loss bag as well...but for some reason, it still seems to go bad, or at least change over time such that the glossy shine will fade after the stuff has been on the shelf a few months.

O.B. Shine Juice, which for the record is a type of friction polish, is one of the shiniest finishes I know of. I'd say it is slightly second to Pens Plus, which is another friction polish albeit one that contains a microcrystalline wax that forms a film over the shellac and oil as it all cures, which provides an extremely crystal clear, very shiny and more durable coating over the shellec (which is actually critically important for pens.) O.B. Shine Juice and Pens Plus can produce extremely shiny finishes right out of the gate without a lot of fanfare. CA glue CAN become just as shiny and glossy as Pens Plus, but you'll need to invest the necessary work to bring that shine out, which requires some careful sanding, polishing, buffing, etc. CA is a more durable finish, and a hardcoat, but it will cover the grain, whereas friction polishes will not.

Ok, final note... Friction polishes include shellac. I don't know if very single friction polish known to man includes shellac, but all the ones I have used, both pre-formulated or home made, rely on shellac. Shellac on its own, is not a durable finish, and it can in fact be dissolved by sweat from the hands, and will degrade under water. I've used several different friction polishes on my pens, and the only one I liked was Pens Plus. Pens Plus is the only friction polish that I know of that includes a protective coating OVER the shellac (and oil) that provides a barrier, protecting the shellac from sweat and oils from the hands and fingers. The Cosmolloid 80H synthetic wax in Pens Plus is fingerprint resistant, and when polished properly, insanely crystal clear and glass-like shiny. Pens Plus is the ONLY friction polish I would recommend for pens that would actually get used...which I would figure is most. A pen that is only going to be displayed, could work with any friction polish, but shellac based friction polishes without a protective wax barrier, are not going to last, and the finish will degrade with use. I found this out the hard way with several different friction polishes, including some pre-formulated ones like Myland's Hi-Build Friction Polish and, yes, O.B. Shine Juice.

The other issue with friction polishes, at least all the ones I've tried, is they ALL, even professionally formulated ones, seem prone to degrading over time in their bottles. When the finish degrades, it will cease to produce the high quality, shiny finish they are known for, and instead start to produce increasingly dull, flat, and lifeless finishes. Even though Pens Plus is specifically formulated for use on pens, and I really love the finish when it works properly, over time even that stuff will go bad. I think it is fundamentally the shellac, which is a natural substance, and will break down over time. Every friction polish I've used is based on the stuff, and they all generally exhibit largely the same problem over time: dulling and flattening of the final result.

I am extremely allergic to CA glue, but I ultimately decided, after having two bottles of Pens Plus go bad in about a years time (probably less, actually), and having been unable to use more than half the bottles by the time they went bad, I decided to switch to CA glue, specifically GluBoost. The CA finishes take a bit more effort to achieve the crystal clear glassy shine I like, but once done, you are DONE DONE. With Pens Plus, even though the overall effort was usually less, and with a fresh bottle a glossy finish on a pen could be achieved within minutes, as the bottle aged I often had to do touchup coats to deal with dull spots. That problem would increase until the finish just wouldn't stay shiny, at which point the bottle was done. Its a frustrating problem.

I started to wonder if that might in fact happen with the finished pens themselves over time, so in the end I decided to switch entirely to GluBoost. This requires two rounds of sanding...one before applying the CA, then again after, as well as polishing and/or buffing to really bring out the glassy shine. However, when properly applied, CA is done for good, and highly durable, and never needs touchup or anything else, and you can store the pen and move on and no longer think or worry about it. The key drawback with the CA, is that you no longer feel (or even see, really) the texture of the wood grain. That was (is) something I really liked about Pens Plus, that it allowed the full characteristic of the wood to be exposed through the finish. I like the natural feel of real wood and a friction polish preserves the texture of the wood...just, not durably. CA is a long term durable finish, and for higher end and custom made (kitless) pens, a CA finish is pretty much a given. If you want the most durable finish possible, I would choose CA. I worked with StarBond, StickFast, Mercury Flex, and GluBoost. I didn't care much for CA, until I tried GluBoost...then I loved it (despite my severe allergy to it, I do everything I can to make sure I am wearing effective PPE any time I use any CA.) CA will provide a very durable hard coat. They can scratch in the long run (like any resin blank), but they are generally more resilient to wear.

If you really do want to use a friction polish, my honest opinion is don't use O.B. Shine Juice. That stuff is great on items that won't be handled much, like a decorative bowl or vase. And then, only when freshly mixed from fresh materials. I wouldn't use O.B. Shine Juice on a pen, as it doesn't really offer any protection for the shellac from all the wear and tear. Pens Plus is a great finish, and can be truly beautiful (see below for a couple of my best examples), and should provide a much more lasting finish thanks to the inclusion of the synthetic micro-crystalline wax. The wax is what sets Pens Plus apart from any other friction polish...it (under the right application conditions, with the right pressure and heat) will form a film over top of the wood-penetrating shellac and oil. I've even tested Pens Plus' durability by using a pen pretty heavily for a year, after which some of the wood had picked up some small dents, but no overt scratches, and also left a couple of pens (from kits I ended up just hating) out in the sun for hours (and one, days!) and the finish was perfectly fine in the end. The only caveat with Pens Plus, is its $30 a bottle, and if you don't use the whole thing in, well, I'd ay 8 months to be safe, then its most likely that the rest will go bad. By a year, with both of my bottles, I had a real tough time and increasing difficulty in maintaining a shiny finish. The oil used in Pens Plus is purified walnut oil, which is very clear (almost zero yellowing) and has no proteins, so it cannot go bad (according to a few sources of information I've found). The the alcohol doesn't go bad, nor does the wax. Its just the shellac, then, that goes bad, and once it does, it seems that achieving a glossy shine ceases to be possible. So, keep that in mind. If you can use enough of a Pens Plus bottle to feel you've gotten your money's worth before it goes bad, then, IMO, its one of the best pen finishes out there, better than O.B. Shine Juice, and can be just as glossy and shiny as a CA finish, without obscuring the texture of the wood.

Some of my best Pens Plus results, from early on after first opening the bottle:

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I really love Pens Plus, and it is probably my personal favorite pen finish, when its from a fresh bottle, and within the first 6 months of opening said bottle. I guess, you could try to use a stop loss bag with Pens Plus, and that may allow it to last longer. I guess I never did that, as pouring finish out of a stop loss bag is not easy, and you never need a lot of Pens Plus. But, if you combined a stop loss bag with say some half ounce or 1 ounce small squeeze bottles, you could transfer from the stop-loss to the small squeeze, and then only risk a small amount going bad in short order (and if you make enough pens, then half an ounce or so will be used up very quickly!) I guess if you can keep the stuff from going bad, Pens Plus could make for an exceptional go-to finish, and I would always choose Pens Plus over any other friction polish (OBSJ included) due to the protective factor of the wax.
 
Asked this question on another thread but wanted to separate it to get your experiences. Got a formula with DNA/Shellac/BLO, equal parts of each, from Captain Eddie Castelin on YouTube. Will this be good for pens? Pens as we know will be handled a lot so is it durable? Thanks.
Matter of opinion and debate. Some people like it; others hate it.

Shellac can succumb to physical abuse over time as a pen is handled by its user; whether this is a serious negative, or just the fact that the finish will take on its own patina with use is where opinion enters the debate. Also, any finish that contains linseed oil will have a slight amber color.

There is an alternate formulation involving equal parts of brushing lacquer, lacquer thinner, and oil that is better able to withstand handling. I prefer the lacquer forumlation, and I make mine using pure Tung Oil rather than BLO. Tung Oil produces a lighter shade of amber than BLO. My wife's daily use pens were both done with this finish; they are around 14 years old at this point, and she's not complaining.
 
I have had good success with Doctor's Woodshop products applied according to the processes presented by the Doctor in this video on YouTube. I have a personal carry Padauk keychain with big open grain that I finished in January 2022. Of course it show's it's age as it is a little darker, a little less shiny, and the grain looks more pronounced (maybe partially due to the lighting), but in general it held up pretty good considering it has been carried around for more than 2 years.

Here are some pictures comparing it when it was new in January 2022 and how it looked in March of this year - so 2+ years of almost daily handling.

Regards,
Dave

January 2022
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March 2024
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Matter of opinion and debate. Some people like it; others hate it.

Shellac can succumb to physical abuse over time as a pen is handled by its user; whether this is a serious negative, or just the fact that the finish will take on its own patina with use is where opinion enters the debate. Also, any finish that contains linseed oil will have a slight amber color.

There is an alternate formulation involving equal parts of brushing lacquer, lacquer thinner, and oil that is better able to withstand handling. I prefer the lacquer forumlation, and I make mine using pure Tung Oil rather than BLO. Tung Oil produces a lighter shade of amber than BLO. My wife's daily use pens were both done with this finish; they are around 14 years old at this point, and she's not complaining.
Thanks for this. Over the past few weeks, I have been considering the pure Tong Oil formulation too. I know the properties of Tung Oil cannot be beat except for possibly Urushi when done properly. A characteristic of Pure Tung Oil and Urushi are that both take time to cure, (days or weeks) but once cured, their protection properties are second to none! Most pen turners (and wood workers too) don't like to the finishing to building time table to have a ratio of 50 or 100 to 1 (100 hours for finishing for 1 hour of building ratio). When used in the formulation, curing may be a quicker, but it never hurts to allow extra time for curing before the buffing process.
 
When used in the formulation, curing may be a quicker, but it never hurts to allow extra time for curing before the buffing process.
Lacquer-based friction polish is applied and rubbed in just like Capt Eddie's shine juice - the heat from friction causes it to feel dry to the touch almost immediately. However, as Hank says, both the lacquer and Tung Oil components need time to cure. At least a week - and it doesn't hurt to let it go longer.

I've never understood what the big rush is about finishing turnings.
 
@monophoto @leehljp Have either of you ever tried to use the Doctor's Woodshop Pure Walnut Oil? If you want the least color changing possible, this particular walnut oil is almost perfectly clear. It imparts a VERY SLIGHT yellowing, but so far, its the least yellowing oil I have ever found.

Its highly purified, so, its literally pure oil... Which I think may be a bit different from linseed or tung oils, which I think still contain proteins. So, I don't know if it will behave exactly the same in a friction polish (although, its the same stuff used in Pens Plus, which is a friction polish.) Anyway, if you are looking for a way to create a shiny friction polish that doesn't yellow, then Doctor's Woodshop pure walnut oil may just be the ticket.
 
Jon, I haven't tried pure walnut but a Japanese friend has and likes it for some things. For me, the point behind my tung oil suggestion above was not about the yellowing - it was about durability. Tung oil and Urushi are the highest water proofing finishes you can get in ordinary stores. I don't know what the heat limits that Tung oil has when cured, but Urushi has one of the highest heat tolerances of any finish except those made for engine heat.

I also don't know what Walnut oil does as a protectant, but it has a tall hill to climb to beat Tung oil and Urushi. As mentioned earlier, pure tung oil takes at least a week for each coat, and some give it 10 days. Urushi takes close to a month for some. The curing time gives them properties that most finishes with short curing time do not have. Shellac finishes even after cured can be affected by alcohol and by water. Lacquer not so much, but still not as durable as tung oil IMHO. But Tung oil is virtually waterproof after curing and less affected by common chemicals (alcohol) and humidity. So is Urushi. Yes, urushi is a lacquer but its curing time is weeks, not hours.

As to yellowing - for some woods it helps the finish stand out. Others, it does not. Tung oil does not build up a thick coat finish for it to be durable.
 
Jon, I haven't tried pure walnut but a Japanese friend has and likes it for some things. For me, the point behind my tung oil suggestion above was not about the yellowing - it was about durability. Tung oil and Urushi are the highest water proofing finishes you can get in ordinary stores. I don't know what the heat limits that Tung oil has when cured, but Urushi has one of the highest heat tolerances of any finish except those made for engine heat.

I also don't know what Walnut oil does as a protectant, but it has a tall hill to climb to beat Tung oil and Urushi. As mentioned earlier, pure tung oil takes at least a week for each coat, and some give it 10 days. Urushi takes close to a month for some. The curing time gives them properties that most finishes with short curing time do not have. Shellac finishes even after cured can be affected by alcohol and by water. Lacquer not so much, but still not as durable as tung oil IMHO. But Tung oil is virtually waterproof after curing and less affected by common chemicals (alcohol) and humidity. So is Urushi. Yes, urushi is a lacquer but its curing time is weeks, not hours.

As to yellowing - for some woods it helps the finish stand out. Others, it does not. Tung oil does not build up a thick coat finish for it to be durable.
Thanks for the info. I knew Tung Oil was durable, but wasn't aware that it was such a resilient finish. Very good to know! I do not believe walnut oil is that durable, given my experience with it.

Sometimes I do like the warming that a good oil will give to some woods. Other woods, especially those that have more of a tan color naturally, I really don't care much for the yellowing effect that linseed oil in particular will impart. Do you know how much different the color of tung oil is from linseed? In all honesty, I don't mind warming, but linseed oil has a very...well, pee-yellow color. :P Never really been a fan. :D
 
I agree with Jon - some woods need the enhancement that an amber-colored oil delivers. But there can be too much of any good thing - which means that there is no one perfect and universal solution. The possibility of endless experimentation just adds to the fun of wood turning/pen making.

If you want colorless, there is always lacquer. A lacquer sanding sealer is almost as easy to apply as friction polish, and its easy to make - 1:1 solution of a brushing lacquer and lacquer thinner. Its a film finish which means it a skin on the surface unlike an oil that penetrates into the fibers of the wood, and it builds - the thinner component causes each subsequent application to chemically bond with previous applications.

And the extreme would be water-based polyurethane - the stuff they sell for finishing floors. Its really tough - after all, its meant to be walked on. And its so colorless that on some timbers it looks blue. Quite easy to apply - just wipe on like friction polish. It dries in a couple of hours and multiple applications build to create a finish that can be buffed to a high gloss if that's what floats your boat.
 
I tend to keep my finish quite simple, I did try CA but couldn't get consistent results, one pen it was fantastic the next rubbish, even though the application process was identical.

I now just sand to 600, then apply a few coats of friction polish, mixed fresh, then to finish a couple of coats of Canubia wax.

I get a nice gloss that does not look like it's plastic, unlike like CA when it applies correctly.

Seems to hold up quite well on my pens so far. Fingers crossed 🤞
 
Thanks for the info. I knew Tung Oil was durable, but wasn't aware that it was such a resilient finish. Very good to know! I do not believe walnut oil is that durable, given my experience with it.

Sometimes I do like the warming that a good oil will give to some woods. Other woods, especially those that have more of a tan color naturally, I really don't care much for the yellowing effect that linseed oil in particular will impart. Do you know how much different the color of tung oil is from linseed? In all honesty, I don't mind warming, but linseed oil has a very...well, pee-yellow color. :p Never really been a fan. :D
I have tried pure tung oil on three of pens - 2 walnut and 1 oak. My first experience with pure tung oil was in Japan and before I could read the instructions - that was in the late 1980s. I brushed it on a walnut board and let it set. The next day it was still wet. I thought I did something wrong. The second day it was still wet. I wiped it off with a cloth to absorb as much as I could get. I applied another well wet coat. Two days later, the same thing. I wiped it off and applied a third coat the same way. I waited 2 weeks and looked at it. Hard smooth coat, beautiful walnut finish.

About 3 or 4 years later, I found in a magazine (English language) the instructions for applying and using pure tung oil. Almost exactly as I did! I have used it like that on flat wood several times. A few friends who are familiar with tung oil on flat wood work love the use of T.O. It takes time to cure though but gives great results.

On walnut and red oak, it doesn't change the color much at all. In Japan, T.O. (called China Tree Oil there: 中国木油, while China calls it china wood oil - yet it comes for seed.) The Japanese version were fairly clear but with a very slight amber/honey color. One company that I have bought from here in the USA - classifies it is slightly honey colored, and I agree, but that brings out most American woods. There seems to be a bit of difference in the TO I had in Japan (lighter/clearer color) versus what I get here.

For those who say that CA has a plastic look or feel, T.O. on wood does leave some of the wood feel but smooth. Color-wise I haven't tried it on white holly or very red Bloodwood. Yellow-ish and slightly amber oils turn holly into ivory looking color; they make very maroon-ish red wood to have a slightly darker burnt orange hue to it (in my eyes). But on brown and tan woods and some reddish wood such as red oak, it looks very good.

Below, go to the link in the TO BLO comparison for a good read on the two.

Here is where I have bought T.O. a couple of times:

Tung Oil/BLO compared:

The above is good reading.
 
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Thanks! Good read. I wasn't aware that Tung Oil cured to a water resistant finish. I don't make too many things that could be used with food, because I've never really been a fan of linseed oil. I never liked the color, and it just takes A-GES to cure if pure, and then if its a drying oil, it of course has all those heavy metal dryiers in it.

Ever since reading the book "Understanding Wood Finishing" which is kind of the bible of wood finish, I kind of felt vindicated, as it seems a lot of the "appeal" of linseed oil comes from its use in antiquity...the "Oooh, our ancestors used it!" sort of thing. That book taught me a lot about all finish, and I'd say I'm a fan of hard wax and varnish mostly now. However, you can't really use either of those as a food-safe or food-durable finish for utilitarian turnings. So, I just kind of don't make many... If Tung Oil can replace Linseed Oil as a durable and safe finish for utilitarian turnings, then I think I can start making them again. The water durability is key...linseed oil just doesn't hold up, and I've never wanted to sell say bowls, or other kitchen utensils, that require regular oil maintenance to remain viable for such utilitarian use.
 
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