Ka-Boom! - It's my own fault - again.

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egnald

egnald

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
4,193
Location
Columbus, Nebraska, USA
Hello IAP,

Well, you would think I would have learned my lesson already, but obviously I haven't. I can't remember how many times I've preached about making sure the tubes were glued in solidly before turning. Well, I was trying something new (for me anyway) today, a Cigar pen with only the little thin center band, so yes, I got in a hurry. Instead of epoxy I used thick CA to glue my tubes in - or should I say partially glued my tubes in.

Just as I was finishing up the light cuts to get down to the bushings, - Bang! - half of my lower blank disappeared. Actually, all of my lower blank disappeared, I just happened to find the half that is in the picture and snapped it back on the tube. The evidence is obvious that I didn't get the tube glued securely and completely before I started turning. Ok, I will start over, with epoxy this time.

It's too bad too because I think the Cocobolo blank was going to turn out very nice - lots of color variations.

Lessons Learned (again). Be patient and use epoxy to glue the tubes in or someday (today) you will be sorry!

Regards,
Dave

IMG_3688 Cropped.jpg
 
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mark james said:
I just really prefer 2 part epoxy for almost everything. CA has it's uses at times, but for me the brittleness is not worth the fast cure-rate. I am not in that big of a hurry.
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Yet another variant of the ' slow down to speed up.' aphorism
 
egnald said:
The evidence is obvious that I didn't get the tube glued securely and completely before I started turning. Ok, I will start over, with epoxy this time.

It's too bad too because I think the Cocobolo blank was going to turn out very nice - lots of color variations.

Lessons Learned (again). Be patient and use epoxy to glue the tubes in or someday (today) you will be sorry!

Regards,
Dave

View attachment 357965
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Dave, In the past most everyone who experienced this thought that they had securely glued it. What is missing is the "not understanding the unseeable air bubbles that get caught when inserting the tube, far more than most would imagine. Filling, pushing and twisting with CA and even epoxy, air enters. But Epoxy holds better and is less brittle.

I learned my lesson over about 5 or 6 before changing to epoxy. I was a slow learner, but I did learn!

That sure is a pretty blank!
 
What epoxy do you fellows use? I built my first fishing rod with 5 minute epoxy....just barely got the grip on the blank before it set up. FWIW, I then went to Two Ton epoxy by Devcon. One could do a few pens to take advantage of the additional work time. Thoughts?
 
Woodchipper said:
What epoxy do you fellows use? I built my first fishing rod with 5 minute epoxy....just barely got the grip on the blank before it set up. FWIW, I then went to Two Ton epoxy by Devcon. One could do a few pens to take advantage of the additional work time. Thoughts?
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I buy the 5 minute epoxy from Harbor Freight.

However, I mostly use Starbond medium thick to glue my tubes.

As long as I don't get heavy handed with the tools and keep'em sharp, no problems.
 
Woodchipper said:
What epoxy do you fellows use? I built my first fishing rod with 5 minute epoxy....just barely got the grip on the blank before it set up. FWIW, I then went to Two Ton epoxy by Devcon. One could do a few pens to take advantage of the additional work time. Thoughts?
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T-88 here with it's 15 min time. And yeah, I'll line up a handful of tasks at a time and knock 'em out at once.
 
Woodchipper said:
What epoxy do you fellows use? I built my first fishing rod with 5 minute epoxy....just barely got the grip on the blank before it set up. FWIW, I then went to Two Ton epoxy by Devcon. One could do a few pens to take advantage of the additional work time. Thoughts?
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JB Weld 5 minute epoxy, it smells like a home perm, but does the trick.
 
I use the JB Weld 5 minute epoxy too. For plastic blanks I add a single drop of acrylic craft paint to color it. The little bit of paint makes the epoxy start to tack up at about 3 minutes instead of 5. It smells bad enough on it's own, but I it gets even worse when I add the paint. So far it has been working great for me. I use it simply because it is what is available at our local Menards store. - Dave
 
We have several box stores in town and they all carry most of the glues and epoxies mentioned. The only drawback with epoxy is mixing it as opposed to putting a few drops of thick CA glue on the tube. Like the idea of craft paint to color the glue.
 
I always have 5 minute epoxy on hand, but do not usually use it as my primary epoxy on pens. I have 15 - 20 minute epoxy that I use more or less for individual pens, and I use West Systems 40 minute epoxy when I need that much lead time. On larger projects other than pens, I use System Three quick set ( 4- 6 hours set, 72 hours cure).

Why 15 minute epoxy, or 40 minute epoxy or 4 to 6 hour epoxy? Patience - the focus is on the process, not time limit, better bond, no rush. "Too fast (5 minutes)" can lead to some good pens quick, but it bites on that one pen when rushed to complete and you need one more minute to get that segment just right! Getting it right with more open set time might leave you with time on your hands to work on another project or pen, but when time is squeezed, a segment happens to get off-set just a tad, and the pen goes from perfect possibility to being a tad off!
 
Woodchipper said:
We have several box stores in town and they all carry most of the glues and epoxies mentioned. The only drawback with epoxy is mixing it as opposed to putting a few drops of thick CA glue on the tube. Like the idea of craft paint to color the glue.
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The other drawback is the long cure time. Next day, I believe.

How long after applying the 5 minute epoxy are you guys waiting to square the ends and turn?
 
mark james said:
I just really prefer 2 part epoxy for almost everything. CA has it's uses at times, but for me the brittleness is not worth the fast cure-rate. I am not in that big of a hurry.
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I use CA for inlay and for some finishes (CA/BLO) Five minute Epoxy for most, fifteen minute epoxy for bigger stuff, and leave it overnight.
 
I mix my epoxy with a swab, it's very easy takes little time, then I apply it with the same swab. I typically wait an hour to square off and begin turning, sometimes I wait overnight if it's feasible. Never had a problem with anything coming loose, or unsecured areas of my blank.
 
derekdd said:
The other drawback is the long cure time. Next day, I believe.

How long after applying the 5 minute epoxy are you guys waiting to square the ends and turn?
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I try to wait overnight (so maybe 8 to 12 hours); but I sometimes move on to squaring using my disc sander and rounding the blank using my bandsaw rounding jig after an hour or so. - Dave
 
I use slow,cure epoxy , open working time of 2 hours then 24 hour for total cure. Mixed and applied using wooden coffee stirrers, McDonalds are very generous to me……..

Always seal end with blutac then twist as inserting too, HDPE tapers tool I made from an offcut keeps my fingers out the way.

I do feel your pain there as blank had soo much potential but you've turned a bad experience into a lesson with reminder for future use so 👍
 
Following recommendations elsewhere for glueing tubes into wooden blanks I now use a fast set Polyurethane (PU) glue, and not had a blow out since (rapidly touching wood). When I say fast set I use a 30 minute one not one of the 5 minute ones, although the fast one may be just as good.

For Acrylic blanks I use a slow set CA (Zap Slow) and again not had a blowout since, and not had any issues with the glue setting before the tube is correctly positioned unlike when I was using standard CA.
 
Paul-H said:
Following recommendations elsewhere for glueing tubes into wooden blanks I now use a fast set Polyurethane (PU) glue, and not had a blow out since (rapidly touching wood). When I say fast set I use a 30 minute one not one of the 5 minute ones, although the fast one may be just as good.

For Acrylic blanks I use a slow set CA (Zap Slow) and again not had a blowout since, and not had any issues with the glue setting before the tube is correctly positioned unlike when I was using standard CA.
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can you outline the polyeurethane glue procedure?
 
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